Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
  1. #31
    All-American waterboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gilmer
    Posts
    9,825

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Easy to say that. Comparing the WOS scores it doesn’t look like that. Say they both improved at the same rate. You guys are reaching if you think PG “a lot” better then Kennedale. There is nothing that points to that.
    I disagree with you in part. PG would've beaten Kennedale pretty handily, in my opinion. As for a match up between Carthage and PG, my money would've been on Carthage, but I do think PG would've given them a VERY good game. Both teams were very, very good, no doubt. We could speculate all we want, but that is my opinion. Did you see the size and agility that the Hawks had? They had 300 pounders that very strong, agile, and quick. Unless you lined up against them, you really can't put it in perspective. The X factor would've definitely favored Carthage, though, with Surratt and company.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

    P.R.I.D.E.

    Gilmer Buckeyes -State Champions:

    2004 3A - Division II
    2009 3A - Division I
    2014 4A - Division II
    2023 4A - Division II

  2. #32
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H3llR4z0r View Post
    As an unbiased person, actually probably more biased towards Carthage, beings my classmate coaches there, it would have been a good game. Do I think Carthage would have won? Yes. I however, without a doubt, feel like PG would have beat Kennedale healthily. Kennedale was a very undisciplined team, and it showed when they posted videos talking smack about Carthage the week before the state championship. PG was probably the most disciplined team I saw all last year, and I saw Carthage 3 times. Carthage has the best coaching staff in Texas, that's where I give them the clear upper hand. They had better linebackers, PG had the better D-line. Carthage had the better running back, but I feel like PG's offense was more dynamic. PG's secondary was also really good. I believe that Carthage would have won due to preparation, and sheer overall talent, but I do think it would have been a 2 score or less game.
    More dynamic offense!?!? I like your post and agree with a lot of it. But this is too much. Carthage didn’t run the same formation twice in the ship. That was as good an offensive showcase as I have ever seen. Literally set records.

  3. #33
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waterboy View Post
    I disagree with you in part. PG would've beaten Kennedale pretty handily, in my opinion. As for a match up between Carthage and PG, my money would've been on Carthage, but I do think PG would've given them a VERY good game. Both teams were very, very good, no doubt. We could speculate all we want, but that is my opinion. Did you see the size and agility that the Hawks had? They had 300 pounders that very strong, agile, and quick. Unless you lined up against them, you really can't put it in perspective. The X factor would've definitely favored Carthage, though, with Surratt and company.
    Those 300 pounders woulda been turned every which way but loose. No no no way a Wing T team beats Preston and Surratt. Absolutely no way in hell. Especially not with Carthage having those 2 x 230 pound LB looking like they had babies to feed. Yes it would’ve been closer than the Kennedale game. But gimme Carthage by 18+. Prolly about how PG beat WOS. 41-21.

    But it’s all just opinions anyway.

  4. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Atlanta, TX
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Those 300 pounders woulda been turned every which way but loose. No no no way a Wing T team beats Preston and Surratt. Absolutely no way in hell. Especially not with Carthage having those 2 x 230 pound LB looking like they had babies to feed. Yes it would’ve been closer than the Kennedale game. But gimme Carthage by 18+. Prolly about how PG beat WOS. 41-21.

    But it’s all just opinions anyway.
    Yea, it's all speculation. I never said they would have beat Carthage. And by dynamic, I mean in a sense that they execute better. Wing-T is not an easy offense to run, and even though the formation looks similar, it's all smoke and mirrors. Tons of motion involved, and their passing game was excellent, against whatever team they played. They may only have 6-8 passes a game, but they executed so well. They didn't have bad halves, they didn't have rough quarters. They came out, executed the entire game, and did what needed to be done. I saw Carthage all but completely sit down for an entire half during the Gilmer game. They looked horrible in the first half of that game. Granted, halftime adjustments were made, and it wasn't even close afterwards, there was still that terrible first half. I never saw that from PG. I mean, look at the first play of the state championship lol.

    Regardless, I don't think they would have beaten Carthage, but I will stand behind the fact I think it would have been a 2 score game, possibly closer. PG literally had the best defensive line I have seen in quite some time. They disrupted every single team, regardless of their size or talent on the line. Several of the teams they played had some of, if not the best offensive lines in D2 (other than PG), and it wasn't even close. Big nick and whomever the other kid was made light work of them all.

    On a different note, I can't wait to see Ingram in burnt orange. I hope that UT can develop him the way he needs to be, because he will be something special.
    Atlanta Rabbits
    District Champs: 41, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51, 53, 54, 57, 64, 66, 68, 70, 77, 78, 90, 91, 92, 94, 95, 98, 99, 01, 02, 03, 06
    Bi-District Champs: 48, 64, 77, 92, 94, 95, 98, 99, 01, 02, 03, 06, 12, 13, 14, 15
    Area Champs: 92, 94, 99, 03, 14, 15
    Regional Champs: 64, 92, 94, 99, 02, 03, 14, 15
    QF, SF Champs: 94, 03
    State Champs: 03

  5. #35
    All-American
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Celina/Kansas City
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    By the time the championship game rolled around Carthage would’ve run PG off the field. You guys are crazy. Did you not see those 230 lbs LB shut down the #1 rushing attack in the nation on FSSW in Jerry’s World. Same goes for Gilmer. I wish we would’ve met up in the playoffs. All of this “could’ve” beaten Carthage would be over. It would’ve looked like the Silsbee game.

    Y’all need to put some respect on Carthage 2017. That might have been the best 4a team to ever play. By far the best team Carthage ever had. That is out of Surratt’s own mouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Easy to say that. Comparing the WOS scores it doesn’t look like that. Say they both improved at the same rate. You guys are reaching if you think PG “a lot” better then Kennedale. There is nothing that points to that.


    For starters, who here has disrespected 2017 Carthage? Anybody? Next, who here said PG WOULD beat Carthage? Anybody? And PG > Kennedale by a lot is reaching? Please. The Wildcats would've been run off the field by the Hawks last year in December. It would not have been close. That's not a knock on Kennedale, and certainly not a knock on Carthage in any way. It just means PG was a much better football team. Period. I hadn't even considered the WOS score. Hell, I didn't even remember that Kennedale played them until you said something about it.


    And, maybe you're right. Maybe 2017 Carthage was the greatest 4A team of all time. But that's another arbitrary argument with nothing but subjective opinions. And my opinion is that the 2017 Bulldogs were an all-time elite team. There wasn't anybody in 4A Div. I that was beating them last year. But, for my dollar, they're not even the best Carthage team of all time. I'd still take that 2008 team over last year's squad. In my opinion, Smith was a better overall HS running back than Ingram, Blackshire was a MUCH better QB, and the offensive line was just as dominant. The LB corps is where the 2017 squad would have an advantage, in my opinion, but that alone wouldn't make me choose that team over the 2008 group.


    Anyway, none of this matters. At the end of the day, I think PG could have given Carthage a great game, but it didn't happen, it'll never happen, and we'll never know. And NONE of that takes away the rings Carthage got and the rings PG got. So enjoy it.
    Texas Forever.

  6. #36
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H3llR4z0r View Post
    Yea, it's all speculation. I never said they would have beat Carthage. And by dynamic, I mean in a sense that they execute better. Wing-T is not an easy offense to run, and even though the formation looks similar, it's all smoke and mirrors. Tons of motion involved, and their passing game was excellent, against whatever team they played. They may only have 6-8 passes a game, but they executed so well. They didn't have bad halves, they didn't have rough quarters. They came out, executed the entire game, and did what needed to be done. I saw Carthage all but completely sit down for an entire half during the Gilmer game. They looked horrible in the first half of that game. Granted, halftime adjustments were made, and it wasn't even close afterwards, there was still that terrible first half. I never saw that from PG. I mean, look at the first play of the state championship lol.

    Regardless, I don't think they would have beaten Carthage, but I will stand behind the fact I think it would have been a 2 score game, possibly closer. PG literally had the best defensive line I have seen in quite some time. They disrupted every single team, regardless of their size or talent on the line. Several of the teams they played had some of, if not the best offensive lines in D2 (other than PG), and it wasn't even close. Big nick and whomever the other kid was made light work of them all.
    Ok now I can agree. Carthage is known to lay down a little bit from time to time and not execute. Look how they let LV back in the game. I was never really worried about the game, but it was a lot closer than it needed to be. Carthage offense is so complex that if it’s not clicking it can look terrible. Carthage had plenty of bad quarters this year. But they had so much experience and so many studs they could overcome just about anything in 4a. Look at 2016. They leaned how to win that year. All those close games. If you were going to beat Carthage last year you would’ve had to run them outta te stadium. Catch them not executing and get up big. If it’s close in the 4th quarter it was over.

    I do agree. PG offense was easy to watch. Very fast and very efficient. One of the best Wing T offenses I have seen. I usually don’t enjoy watching that, but I did enjoy watching PG put it on WOS. It was a nice offense to watch. Poor Kennedale couldn’t get more than 2 yards a carry. I do not think it would’ve been the same.

    Ingram is in that weight room! Boy will be 215 soon. But if the transfer from Cal pans out and doesn’t get injured, I hope he is the man. I would like to see them let Ingram’s body mature 1 year. He is a late bloomer. That’s the scary part. One of the best young men to ever put on the C. He is special. Raised right. Not wanting to be a thug. He is a ball player. Kid is gonna be an all American if they develop him. He has all the traits.

  7. #37
    All-American
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Celina/Kansas City
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Ingram is in that weight room! Boy will be 215 soon. But if the transfer from Cal pans out and doesn’t get injured, I hope he is the man. I would like to see them let Ingram’s body mature 1 year. He is a late bloomer. That’s the scary part. One of the best young men to ever put on the C. He is special. Raised right. Not wanting to be a thug. He is a ball player. Kid is gonna be an all American if they develop him. He has all the traits.

    This is awesome. And scary. With that kind of upbringing, sheer athletic ability and desire to work hard ... this kid is going to do some special, special things. And good for him! Impossible to not cheer for kids like that.
    Texas Forever.

  8. #38
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d0tc0m View Post
    And, maybe you're right. Maybe 2017 Carthage was the greatest 4A team of all time. But that's another arbitrary argument with nothing but subjective opinions. And my opinion is that the 2017 Bulldogs were an all-time elite team. There wasn't anybody in 4A Div. I that was beating them last year. But, for my dollar, they're not even the best Carthage team of all time. I'd still take that 2008 team over last year's squad. In my opinion, Smith was a better overall HS running back than Ingram, Blackshire was a MUCH better QB, and the offensive line was just as dominant. The LB corps is where the 2017 squad would have an advantage, in my opinion, but that alone wouldn't make me choose that team over the 2008 group.
    I’ll leave the rest of your post alone cause most of what I am stirring up is just BS. Little offseason fun.

    I love the 2008 team too. They were great. 1st team that learned how to win. Awesome to watch that play out. The 2008 line on both sides was probably better. But that’s it. That’s the only advantage. The 2017 team had better secondary, LB, and WR. Much better. Ingram and Smith are too close to call. Blackshire was hurt most of the season, but by the numbers Capps was exponentially better. Remember Blackshire played 2008 with a messed up knee. He passed for 2,735 yards 36 TD and 7 int. He completed 160 passes out of 260 attempts. Capps was 201-320 with 3,813 yards. He had 50 TD passes to only 7 ints.

  9. #39
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d0tc0m View Post
    This is awesome. And scary. With that kind of upbringing, sheer athletic ability and desire to work hard ... this kid is going to do some special, special things. And good for him! Impossible to not cheer for kids like that.
    I’m telling you he was a baby when he was a sophomore. He is still baby faced. Look at a lot of the top recruits. They look like 30 year old men with full beards. I don’t even think Ingram has to shave yet, hahaha. Talking about Dwight Smith in another post. Kid looked 28 playing for Carthage his senior year, lol. Ingram has a lot of growing to do. And with his frame they can do whatever the want. I just hope they keep him lean. He is already a little bit taller than you want top end RB talent to be, so I hope they get him a ripped 210 - 215 with more speed. He has to keep his agility cause that is what makes him special.

  10. #40
    All-American
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Celina/Kansas City
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    I’ll leave the rest of your post alone cause most of what I am stirring up is just BS. Little offseason fun.

    I love the 2008 team too. They were great. 1st team that learned how to win. Awesome to watch that play out. The 2008 line on both sides was probably better. But that’s it. That’s the only advantage. The 2017 team had better secondary, LB, and WR. Much better. Ingram and Smith are too close to call. Blackshire was hurt most of the season, but by the numbers Capps was exponentially better. Remember Blackshire played 2008 with a messed up knee. He passed for 2,735 yards 36 TD and 7 int. He completed 160 passes out of 260 attempts. Capps was 201-320 with 3,813 yards. He had 50 TD passes to only 7 ints.

    And that's part of what influenced my opinion of Blackshire. Knowing he had a bummed knee, not quite the receivers that Capps had, etc. He was just a different kind of playmaker than Capps, and, in my opinion, stats not withstanding, a better QB.

    Ingram will be a better college player than Smith. Granted, Smith never could get his head on right, so we'll never know what could have been for that young man. Ingram will be playing football for as long as he wants to, and as long as his body allows, in my opinion. But from a HS standpoint, I've just never seen someone quite like Smith. He was something to behold.

    At any rate, you could put 2008 and 2017 as 1 and 2 best Carthage teams ever, or vice versa, and I wouldn't argue with you much. But, like I said, if it was me ranking them, having seen them both a few times in person, it would be 2008 then 2017. Both got the hardware, though, and that's all that matters.
    Texas Forever.

  11. #41
    All-District
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d0tc0m View Post
    Ingram will be a better college player than Smith. Granted, Smith never could get his head on right, so we'll never know what could have been for that young man. Ingram will be playing football for as long as he wants to, and as long as his body allows, in my opinion. But from a HS standpoint, I've just never seen someone quite like Smith. He was something to behold.
    I agree. It’s not often you see a legit NFL RB playing against a buncha 3a kids. Smith was the most mature player I have ever seen. He was legit 230 with laser time 4.4 speed. He is like a dream. When you wake up you almost can’t remember how good he was. It was so quick. 1 season...1 freaking season. Pretty sad when you think about it. Kid could’ve done whatever he wanted on the football field. If things would’ve been different for him who know what woulda happened. Ingram was groomed from his sophomore year. Started getting offers at the end of his junior year. By the time he started his senior season he was a full blown 4 star recruit. Smith didn’t get an offer from TCU until after the state championship game. Much different situation.

  12. #42
    Moderator Txbroadcaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    16,679

    Default

    hi..we posted a show last week
    Sideline To Sideline Show Each Week at https://lonestargridiron.com/categor...-to-sideline//

  13. #43
    All-American
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Buckeyeland
    Posts
    2,647

    Default

    Good show, but Hugh Sandifer didn't retire.

    https://www.reporternews.com/story/s...ess/637865002/
    Last edited by Aesculus gilmus; 06-23-2018 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #44
    Moderator Txbroadcaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    16,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesculus gilmus View Post
    Good show, but Hugh Sandifer didn't retire.

    https://www.reporternews.com/story/s...ess/637865002/
    Yea we could not remember on the fly lol
    Sideline To Sideline Show Each Week at https://lonestargridiron.com/categor...-to-sideline//

  15. #45
    All-American
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Celina/Kansas City
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Txbroadcaster View Post
    hi..we posted a show last week

    Oh, sweet! I'll have to go check it out when I get back from a weekend getaway. I got so used to you guys posting about new shows on here, I forgot to check my podcasts app on my phone for new shows.
    Texas Forever.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •