Pleasant Grove (13-0) vs. Melissa (12-1) @ Paris

[waterboy]

Seeing as nobody from these schools posts on here that I'm aware of, I thought I would throw it out there and see what people familiar with these teams think.

This "could" be a good game if Melissa can get on a roll. The thing is, PG's defense is very good. Melissa will have to be able to do short passes with regularity to move the ball. The only thing that keeps me from saying PG rolls is they have been known to put the ball on the ground at times, and sometimes it takes them a while to get rolling.

What say ye?

[orange machine]

Seeing as nobody from these schools posts on here that I'm aware of, I thought I would throw it out there and see what people familiar with these teams think.

This "could" be a good game if Melissa can get on a roll. The thing is, PG's defense is very good. Melissa will have to be able to do short passes with regularity to move the ball. The only thing that keeps me from saying PG rolls is they have been known to put the ball on the ground at times, and sometimes it takes them a while to get rolling.

What say ye?

Melissa by 14, I think Gilmer is better than PG and should have beat PG.

[hollywood]

Melissa by 10

[waterboy]

Melissa by 14, I think Gilmer is better than PG and should have beat PG.

Uuuhh, no. Gilmer wasn't better than PG. The Buckeyes played their best overall game of the year against PG at home and still came up short. Gilmer shot themselves in the foot with penalties and turnovers against Melissa. I've seen both play, and I think PG's defense will be the biggest difference in this one. If Melissa is able to pass effectively early, it will be game on. Otherwise, I think the Hawks will win by a couple of scores. I've been wrong before, but...

Pleasant Grove by 13

[d0tc0m]

Just discovered this thread buried down at the bottom of the page. Sad we don't have any posters from either side (save one for Melissa) here on the DownLow. Smoaky sure is alive and well with the two. But all you get over there is a bunch of nonsense, a terrible east Texas slant and a jarring lack of grammar and punctuation ... and, if I'm being completely honest, a little entertainment.


But, I'll say this, Melissa is going to have to play as well as they've played all year. I was very, very impressed with Pleasant Grove. They honestly reminded me of the Celina teams of yore, a la 2005-2007 era. Just absolutely brutal on defense. People have talked all year long about the Hawks' front seven, and for good reason. They whipped Celina's offensive line all night long. Several, several snaps, our big ol' boy on the left side was on his back. That just can't happen. It made it virtually impossible to get anything going, offensively. And, with no time to throw at all, PG was able to leave their secondary in 1-on-1 situations without a whole lot of concern. That allowed them to bring even more pressure to shut down the passing attack, while also having an extra hat to dominate the run game. It just compounded Celina's offensive woes. I have not seen a team just physically impose its will on Celina like that ... maybe ever. The closest thing I can remember is Lovejoy in 2010. The other thing is PG just flat out out-athleted the Bobcats. Celina played hard, and, defensively, we were in position all night long to make plays. But the Hawks ball carriers just ran through tackles and made big plays. I think I said this last week, but one of Celina's broadcasters said it during the game, 'PG won this game during the offseason.' They were just bigger, stronger and faster than Celina. It wasn't for lack of effort on the part of the Bobcats.

Again, Pleasant Grove is just so sound. On top of that, the kids just flat out believe they can win. Beating Gilmer in the regular season, I think, was what this group needed to fuel the confidence that they've been touting all year long. It's similar to when Celina pretty well dominated Argyle in 2015. Celina knew they had a good squad, but that win reminded them just how good they were, and it carried them to the title game. I think PG's win over Gilmer is doing a similar thing for the Hawks.


Now, all that said, I think Melissa is the exact type of team that can beat PG. They are big, fast, athletic and balanced. If the Cardinals' offensive line can give the QB some time to throw, I think Melissa wins this game by two TDs. Melissa's WRs are just great athletes, and they'll be mismatches for the Hawks DBs. If PG leaves their guys in 1-on-1 coverage, they'll get beat up and down the field, in my opinion, because the Melissa QB can put the ball on a dime. If the Cardinals have success throwing the ball, even if it's just short and intermediate routes — which could be the case if the weather turns south — then they could put up some big numbers, because as they loosen that PG front seven, the Cardinals little sophomore RB will chew up some big yards. On defense, Melissa is good enough up front, and athletic enough in the secondary, to at least slow the Hawks down. I still think PG will score some points — more than Gilmer was able to, actually — because they are so strong on the line, and their backs run extremely well. And, I think they can pass well enough to keep teams honest. Melissa won't have anyone on the line that's as good as the DE #45 for Celina. He's a monster, and despite PG's solid offensive line, he lived in the backfield and singlehandedly kept the game closer than it should've been. But, the Cardinals' have a pair of ends that are really, really good. They are fast off the ball, and they do a good job of getting pressure, or setting the edge and keeping contain and/or making plays on backside pursuit.


At the end of the day, this one is almost a pick 'em to me. But, as I said, if Melissa gives their QB time to throw, it's no longer a pick 'em, and I like the Cardinals by 14. If PG is able to keep the pressure on him, though, and not give up much through the air, then all of a sudden, I like the Hawks by 14. For my dollar, though, I'll take Melissa by 5 in a shootout.

[orange machine]

Just discovered this thread buried down at the bottom of the page. Sad we don't have any posters from either side (save one for Melissa) here on the DownLow. Smoaky sure is alive and well with the two. But all you get over there is a bunch of nonsense, a terrible east Texas slant and a jarring lack of grammar and punctuation ... and, if I'm being completely honest, a little entertainment.


But, I'll say this, Melissa is going to have to play as well as they've played all year. I was very, very impressed with Pleasant Grove. They honestly reminded me of the Celina teams of yore, a la 2005-2007 era. Just absolutely brutal on defense. People have talked all year long about the Hawks' front seven, and for good reason. They whipped Celina's offensive line all night long. Several, several snaps, our big ol' boy on the left side was on his back. That just can't happen. It made it virtually impossible to get anything going, offensively. And, with no time to throw at all, PG was able to leave their secondary in 1-on-1 situations without a whole lot of concern. That allowed them to bring even more pressure to shut down the passing attack, while also having an extra hat to dominate the run game. It just compounded Celina's offensive woes. I have not seen a team just physically impose its will on Celina like that ... maybe ever. The closest thing I can remember is Lovejoy in 2010. The other thing is PG just flat out out-athleted the Bobcats. Celina played hard, and, defensively, we were in position all night long to make plays. But the Hawks ball carriers just ran through tackles and made big plays. I think I said this last week, but one of Celina's broadcasters said it during the game, 'PG won this game during the offseason.' They were just bigger, stronger and faster than Celina. It wasn't for lack of effort on the part of the Bobcats.

Again, Pleasant Grove is just so sound. On top of that, the kids just flat out believe they can win. Beating Gilmer in the regular season, I think, was what this group needed to fuel the confidence that they've been touting all year long. It's similar to when Celina pretty well dominated Argyle in 2015. Celina knew they had a good squad, but that win reminded them just how good they were, and it carried them to the title game. I think PG's win over Gilmer is doing a similar thing for the Hawks.


Now, all that said, I think Melissa is the exact type of team that can beat PG. They are big, fast, athletic and balanced. If the Cardinals' offensive line can give the QB some time to throw, I think Melissa wins this game by two TDs. Melissa's WRs are just great athletes, and they'll be mismatches for the Hawks DBs. If PG leaves their guys in 1-on-1 coverage, they'll get beat up and down the field, in my opinion, because the Melissa QB can put the ball on a dime. If the Cardinals have success throwing the ball, even if it's just short and intermediate routes — which could be the case if the weather turns south — then they could put up some big numbers, because as they loosen that PG front seven, the Cardinals little sophomore RB will chew up some big yards. On defense, Melissa is good enough up front, and athletic enough in the secondary, to at least slow the Hawks down. I still think PG will score some points — more than Gilmer was able to, actually — because they are so strong on the line, and their backs run extremely well. And, I think they can pass well enough to keep teams honest. Melissa won't have anyone on the line that's as good as the DE #45 for Celina. He's a monster, and despite PG's solid offensive line, he lived in the backfield and singlehandedly kept the game closer than it should've been. But, the Cardinals' have a pair of ends that are really, really good. They are fast off the ball, and they do a good job of getting pressure, or setting the edge and keeping contain and/or making plays on backside pursuit.


At the end of the day, this one is almost a pick 'em to me. But, as I said, if Melissa gives their QB time to throw, it's no longer a pick 'em, and I like the Cardinals by 14. If PG is able to keep the pressure on him, though, and not give up much through the air, then all of a sudden, I like the Hawks by 14. For my dollar, though, I'll take Melissa by 5 in a shootout.

Always a good read. However that little Sophmore runningback isn't really little lol 5'10 201. Also squated 500 lbs. Jabray is his name and he is a freak of nature Athelete.

[d0tc0m]

Always a good read. However that little Sophmore runningback isn't really little lol 5'10 201. Also squated 500 lbs. Jabray is his name and he is a freak of nature Athelete.

Haha oh, I know he's not little. I said that more tongue-in-cheek than anything. He is as legit as they come. Going to be a pain in the sides of many for the next two years. Actually, Melissa in general is going to be a pain in the sides of many for the next two years.

[waterboy]

I am also convinced that Melissa's program is definitely on the uptick, and they will be factors in D1 the next couple of years. However, I think this is the year of the Hawk. It's now or never for them, in my opinion, and I don't think they will be denied. Gilmer just shot themselves in the foot offensively too much against Melissa with penalties. Gilmer had well over 120 yards in penalties in the Melissa game, along with a couple of critical turnovers, and stayed behind the chains all night. They didn't show the discipline this season that we're used to seeing. The Buckeye defense, although they started playing better the last 4 to 5 games just never was really on the level compared to years past. The offense was hit and miss for most of the season, and never really hit on all 8 cylinders for the reasons mentioned.

Gilmer's best overall game of the year was played against PG. Gilmer's worst game offensively was the Melissa game. I'm sure some of that was Melissa, but I think more of it was Gilmer's lack of discipline, in my opinion. We couldn't run a lot of our most effective plays all season, ie the jet sweep, inside screen, wide receiver screen, etc., and our QB was short so sometimes he couldn't see the WRs that were open deep. The playbook was limited this season because of the inability to execute because of false starts, holding, illegal man downfield, etc. We stayed behind the chains the entire season it seems.

I'm pretty sure Melissa is very capable of winning this game if they pass effectively. I can't see them getting their run game going much at all if they can't do that. Who knows, passing effectively may be enough. Two very good teams that are very disciplined and good at what they do will collide Friday night. Whoever imposes their will for 48 minutes will win. I, too, think it's a pick 'em game, if I am being honest, because we are talking about 15-18 year olds.

[stardog]

Have Tx Pleasant Grove picked in the state playoff brackets to be the SC !!!

[d0tc0m]

I am also convinced that Melissa's program is definitely on the uptick, and they will be factors in D1 the next couple of years. However, I think this is the year of the Hawk. It's now or never for them, in my opinion, and I don't think they will be denied. Gilmer just shot themselves in the foot offensively too much against Melissa with penalties. Gilmer had well over 120 yards in penalties in the Melissa game, along with a couple of critical turnovers, and stayed behind the chains all night. They didn't show the discipline this season that we're used to seeing. The Buckeye defense, although they started playing better the last 4 to 5 games just never was really on the level compared to years past. The offense was hit and miss for most of the season, and never really hit on all 8 cylinders for the reasons mentioned.

Gilmer's best overall game of the year was played against PG. Gilmer's worst game offensively was the Melissa game. I'm sure some of that was Melissa, but I think more of it was Gilmer's lack of discipline, in my opinion. We couldn't run a lot of our most effective plays all season, ie the jet sweep, inside screen, wide receiver screen, etc., and our QB was short so sometimes he couldn't see the WRs that were open deep. The playbook was limited this season because of the inability to execute because of false starts, holding, illegal man downfield, etc. We stayed behind the chains the entire season it seems.

I'm pretty sure Melissa is very capable of winning this game if they pass effectively. I can't see them getting their run game going much at all if they can't do that. Who knows, passing effectively may be enough. Two very good teams that are very disciplined and good at what they do will collide Friday night. Whoever imposes their will for 48 minutes will win. I, too, think it's a pick 'em game, if I am being honest, because we are talking about 15-18 year olds.

As much as Gilmer shot themselves in the foot, though, I saw Melissa leave a few TDs on the board as well. The dropped TD pass in the first quarter on one of the prettiest throws you'll ever see a sophomore QB make, the INT in the red zone in the second quarter, the questionable play calling later in the quarter that led to a turnover on downs inside the red zone, the blocked PAT returned for 2 points. You take those away, and Melissa flat out blows Gilmer away, in my opinion. You take both teams' mistakes away, though, and Melissa still wins.


Look, I hear you on PG. They're for real. You won't hear — or read — me knocking on that team at all. And they really do believe this is their year, and maybe it is. But, like I said, I think Melissa has the makeup to beat them. And if not Melissa, Graham certainly does in the next round.

We do, however, agree on the point that Melissa will have to have success throwing the ball in order to establish their running game. To me, that's the whole game right there. That's it. Can Melissa move the chains by throwing the football or not? For my dollar, Melissa's QB, Lewis, is better than Poppy, and come Friday, he may be the best QB PG has faced this season. I'd say he was second, behind Argyle's Copeland, in terms of QBs I watched play this year. He's got a really strong arm and a quick delivery, and he's got receivers that can take the top off the defense. He can also scoot when the pocket collapses. But so can/could Celina's QB, Ross, and he had no luck whatsoever getting away from the PG pressure. So, again, if/as the Cardinals have success throwing the football, all of a sudden, another Hawk helmet or two has to drop back into coverage, and then Lewis has some open running lanes. It was that very thing that helped Melissa put the game away against Celina earlier in the year. Could be the same story late tomorrow evening.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Gilmer had well over 120 yards in penalties in the Melissa game. They didn't show the discipline this season that we're used to seeing.

Is it legal for players on the defense to call out the signals as if they are quarterbacking the offense? That's what Melissa was doing, I was told. That's why there were six false start penalties on Gilmer.

I don't think it affected the outcome of the game, but it seems like dirty pool to me.

As for the game, if Melissa is on, I think they can out-athlete Pleasant Grove. It also depends on which team adjusts to 39-degree weather as well. Last year in Waco, it was clear to me that Gilmer couldn't handle playing in cold weather. That's why I'm almost relieved we lost last week, the more I think about it.

It's also why I'm not going to the New Diana-Gunter game in Royse City. Too damn COLD!!!

[lostaussie]

First and last post on this thread. I don't like Melissa, I don't like PG and I don't care who wins.........but I'ma tell you right now....... Unless Melissa can get them Ft Worth officials back in the stadium......PG is gonna blow them out. Put it in 3 inch headlines.

[d0tc0m]

Is it legal for players on the defense to call out the signals as if they are quarterbacking the offense? That's what Melissa was doing, I was told. That's why there were six false start penalties on Gilmer.

I don't think it affected the outcome of the game, but it seems like dirty pool to me.

As for the game, if Melissa is on, I think they can out-athlete Pleasant Grove. It also depends on which team adjusts to 39-degree weather as well. Last year in Waco, it was clear to me that Gilmer couldn't handle playing in cold weather. That's why I'm almost relieved we lost last week, the more I think about it.

It's also why I'm not going to the New Diana-Gunter game in Royse City. Too damn COLD!!!

It is illegal to imitate the snap count. But a defense can, in theory, shout any other kind of nonsense they want over the QB to try and mess with the cadence so long as it can't be deemed 'imitating the snap count.' It gets a little tough to police, from my understanding. Argyle has done this very thing against Celina many times over the years, and from what coaches/players told me, the referees simply said there wasn't much they could do about it. I've heard a few teams say Celina has done it to them, too, but I have never personally seen it.


The weather will come into play for sure. But, playing in cold-weather games as always seemed like a right of passage to me. I always hope Celina is playing in December cold weather. Some of my fondest memories are cold-weather playoff games. They're much easier to stomach, of course, if you come out on the right side of things.

[d0tc0m]

First and last post on this thread. I don't like Melissa, I don't like PG and I don't care who wins.........but I'ma tell you right now....... Unless Melissa can get them Ft Worth officials back in the stadium......PG is gonna blow them out. Put it in 3 inch headlines.

Ooh, boy.

[waterboy]

First and last post on this thread. I don't like Melissa, I don't like PG and I don't care who wins.........but I'ma tell you right now....... Unless Melissa can get them Ft Worth officials back in the stadium......PG is gonna blow them out. Put it in 3 inch headlines.

I like the confidence. I tend to think that "could" happen, but Melissa is resilient and won't go away easily. I think PG's defense is just better than Melissa's, and their offense is just as good. Some will say that Melissa held Gilmer to 23 points. I disagree. Gilmer held Gilmer to 23 points. Yes, Gilmer's defense only gave up 35 points to Melissa, but we were never really very good on that side of the ball this year, or last year, to be honest.

And before anybody rails me for my comments, I give Melissa the credit for doing what they did, and that was win. That's all that matters.