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  1. #1

    Question Coaching or Players?

    Which is the most important for success?
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  2. #2
    All-American waterboy's Avatar
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    It's mostly COACHING! It certainly helps to have abundant talent, but a good coach can get the most out of the talent he has.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

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    2004 3A - Division II
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    2014 4A - Division II
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    All-American orange machine's Avatar
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    Coaching for sure. A good coach can take average talent and make deep runs. A good coach can take awful teams and make them competitive, but most good coaches dont stick around in awful programs.
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    I'm going to say coaching also. Talent will get you were you want occasionally.........but coaching is sustainable. You don't have to look far to see it.
    Originally posted by Ranger Mom
    Umm...what is a sweet beaver??
    the best kind???

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    All-American waterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostaussie View Post
    I'm going to say coaching also. Talent will get you were you want occasionally.........but coaching is sustainable. You don't have to look far to see it.
    We certainly don't.

    That was embarrassing the other night. I haven't seen us be beat down like that since the '70s. We need some wholesale changes in our coaching staff. The head coach needs to have some fire, instill discipline, and hold everybody accountable, players and coaches alike. We're not seeing that at all. I don't dislike our defensive coordinator as a person, but he hasn't produced a decent defense (save a couple of years when we have 5 to 7 D1 players) in his time here. I don't care whether our offense is good or not (which it's not this year), I would LOVE to see us learn how to play DEFENSE. I think losing Kurt Traylor was almost as big a loss as losing Jeff. Our O-line just isn't getting the job done. This is the worst offense we've had in a couple of decades, and our defense isn't any better. We are not very good even on special teams.

    It's time for some wholesale changes, in my opinion. We need to spend the money and rebuild.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

    P.R.I.D.E.

    Gilmer Buckeyes -State Champions:

    2004 3A - Division II
    2009 3A - Division I
    2014 4A - Division II
    2023 4A - Division II

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    All-American orange machine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterboy View Post
    We certainly don't.

    That was embarrassing the other night. I haven't seen us be beat down like that since the '70s. We need some wholesale changes in our coaching staff. The head coach needs to have some fire, instill discipline, and hold everybody accountable, players and coaches alike. We're not seeing that at all. I don't dislike our defensive coordinator as a person, but he hasn't produced a decent defense (save a couple of years when we have 5 to 7 D1 players) in his time here. I don't care whether our offense is good or not (which it's not this year), I would LOVE to see us learn how to play DEFENSE. I think losing Kurt Traylor was almost as big a loss as losing Jeff. Our O-line just isn't getting the job done. This is the worst offense we've had in a couple of decades, and our defense isn't any better. We are not very good even on special teams.

    It's time for some wholesale changes, in my opinion. We need to spend the money and rebuild.
    Now you see how those teams felt when the Bucks would destroy them. It always better when Gilmer is good though.
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    All-American waterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange machine View Post
    Now you see how those teams felt when the Bucks would destroy them. It always better when Gilmer is good though.
    I already knew how it felt, ! I was here during the '70s, when whoopings were dealt to us repeatedly. We had poor coaching then, too. Dare I say we had every bit as much talent in them days that we have now. And that doesn't even count the talent that walked the halls because of the coaching. We will be back. I just hope sooner than later. Like I said, we need to make some definitive changes to continue the tradition that Traylor revived during his tenure. We will also have to spend a little money to get the better coaches here.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

    P.R.I.D.E.

    Gilmer Buckeyes -State Champions:

    2004 3A - Division II
    2009 3A - Division I
    2014 4A - Division II
    2023 4A - Division II

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    Would Kurt Traylor come back if the position opened up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by orange machine View Post
    Coaching for sure. A good coach can take average talent and make deep runs. A good coach can take awful teams and make them competitive, but most good coaches dont stick around in awful programs.
    I agree whole heartedly...……….Robinson's football record the past 11 seasons bears that out.
    Rockets Never Quit!

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    I think coaching also.Even if the kids have talent you have to a coach to show them what to do with it.
    Had a friend tell me the other day that coach T at WOS told him that after 4 games he don't know if he can coach these kids or not but come Monday we gonna find out who can and who can't.lol

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    All-American waterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Would Kurt Traylor come back if the position opened up?
    I doubt he would, but I wouldn't mind seeing it. I would hope we would spend the money to bring in a good defensive coordinator, though.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

    P.R.I.D.E.

    Gilmer Buckeyes -State Champions:

    2004 3A - Division II
    2009 3A - Division I
    2014 4A - Division II
    2023 4A - Division II

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    Coach Bob Shipley (a very good coach) says " You got to have the Horses !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgs View Post
    Would Kurt Traylor come back if the position opened up?
    I have to be careful about what I say on here because lots of folks know who I am. First of all I don't think the position is going to open up and I'm not sure I want it to anyway. What I want to see is some fire, some intensity and some discipline which we have lacked since Jeff left. We have slowly been letting this thing get away from us and now it's starting to snowball.
    Now back to your original question. At the time that Kurt left I didn't know if he was HC material. Looking back I'm not sure he shouldn't have been given a chance. 1st HC job, fire, intensity, discipline. He has shown it at REL. His progress is evident. I wonder what he could have done with an established program. We shall never know.
    Originally posted by Ranger Mom
    Umm...what is a sweet beaver??
    the best kind???

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    Quote Originally Posted by stardog View Post
    Coach Bob Shipley (a very good coach) says " You got to have the Horses !!!
    Exactly. Gilmer won't ever again have a coach as charismatic as Jeff Traylor. He was a Texas high school football coach out of central casting. I thought of Jeff every time I'd watch Kyle Chandler play Coach Taylor (eerily close to our coach's last name) on "Friday Night Lights."

    Traylor didn't have to go get the horses. They came to him. Reverse recruiting just within the rules.

    We now have a transient coaching staff, having lost most of the original Traylor staff and even quite a few from the Turner staff (and losing Kurt was big, no doubt), and we also no longer have the same reliable contingent of "Jimmys and Joes" year after year.

    Moreover, we have a practically nonexistent fanbase compared to what we had, say, 10 years ago. Football at all levels is fading away. "Peak football" was reached in Gilmer almost 10 years ago during the Stump Godfrey era.

    Maybe we in Gilmer deserve this. Still, I know the Buckeyes have not given up and I know Coach Turner had an impossible act to follow and yet has coached in 13 playoff games in three seasons with an overall record of 39-8. Not too shabby.

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    All-American waterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostaussie View Post
    I have to be careful about what I say on here because lots of folks know who I am. First of all I don't think the position is going to open up and I'm not sure I want it to anyway. What I want to see is some fire, some intensity and some discipline which we have lacked since Jeff left. We have slowly been letting this thing get away from us and now it's starting to snowball.
    Now back to your original question. At the time that Kurt left I didn't know if he was HC material. Looking back I'm not sure he shouldn't have been given a chance. 1st HC job, fire, intensity, discipline. He has shown it at REL. His progress is evident. I wonder what he could have done with an established program. We shall never know.
    You're right in that it's likely the AD/HC position won't open up until Coach Turner retires. People at the time of his hiring didn't know if he had the right temperament to be HC. Some people were saying Alan Metzel probably was the better choice, or even Kurt. I still think we can win with Turner, but I would still like to see us go out and get a really good defensive coordinator, and maybe even an OL coach. I've been saying it for years as you well know, and I'm going to stick to my guns on the DC. I shudder to think how many more possible championships we would've had if we stressed defense more. This year is an anomaly offensively. I do think we miss Kurt more than people think. His offensive lines were top notch and consistent in his time here. I just don't think Turner was able to replace the coaches that Jeff had with coaches that are in the same mold, and that's the biggest difference. When Jeff did lose one of his coaches, he was able to replace him with a comparable coach. In other words, he was better at the political part and getting what and who he wanted.
    "Kaizen"

    ".......offense wins games, but DEFENSE wins championships!"

    P.R.I.D.E.

    Gilmer Buckeyes -State Champions:

    2004 3A - Division II
    2009 3A - Division I
    2014 4A - Division II
    2023 4A - Division II

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