Muhammad Ali dies at age 74

[Matthew328]

Ali may have dodged the draft but he didnt run to Canada he faced the music and consequences of his actions...he gave up a lot...right or wrong you have to give credit that he was willing to sacrifice for his principles...

[speedbump]

Ali may have dodged the draft but he didnt run to Canada he faced the music and consequences of his actions...he gave up a lot...right or wrong you have to give credit that he was willing to sacrifice for his principles...

BS - I don't. I'll give credit to those that cared about their country and proved it. I remember those days too well to ever stoop low enough to give that pos credit for anything.

[Matthew328]

BS - I don't. I'll give credit to those that cared about their country and proved it. I remember those days too well to ever stoop low enough to give that pos credit for anything.

Hey we all have opinions

[speedbump]

Hey we all have opinions

I got mine from being here.

[Macarthur]

BS - I don't. I'll give credit to those that cared about their country and proved it. I remember those days too well to ever stoop low enough to give that pos credit for anything.

Couple of things. First, you assume that those that would not go to war automatically don't care for their country. That's dubious.

Secondly, if you think he's a POS, I'm assuming you feel the same about the other guys mentioned in the article that were far less principled in their not wanting to go. If fact, I would say those that the article mentioned were actually cowards. Ali was no coward.

The other thing you can't leave out of this discussion is the context of the time and society. The civil rights movement was still fresh and blacks still did not have rights entitled to them. There's also the fact that we know now, without a shadow of a doubt, that we had no business being in that war. It was a farce. That doesn't make the men that fought in it any less brave. My FIL was drafted and did what he felt he had to do - go fight. And he will tell you straight up - it was a BS war and we had no business there. And he holds no ill will to Ali.

[speedbump]

Couple of things. First, you assume that those that would not go to war automatically don't care for their country. That's dubious.

Secondly, if you think he's a POS, I'm assuming you feel the same about the other guys mentioned in the article that were far less principled in their not wanting to go. If fact, I would say those that the article mentioned were actually cowards. Ali was no coward.

The other thing you can't leave out of this discussion is the context of the time and society. The civil rights movement was still fresh and blacks still did not have rights entitled to them. There's also the fact that we know now, without a shadow of a doubt, that we had no business being in that war. It was a farce. That doesn't make the men that fought in it any less brave. My FIL was drafted and did what he felt he had to do - go fight. And he will tell you straight up - it was a BS war and we had no business there. And he holds no ill will to Ali.

The problem with you telling me anything about 1967 is - you were born in 1971 when I was 24 years old. I lived in that time and that society. I don't hate cassius clay because he didn't want to die in some rice paddy, nobody did. Many got out of it however they could. It's all about the way he thumbed his nose at this country and the people who were fighting so he could keep sucking up the milk and honey. His attitude and big mouth said it all. You shoulda been here.

[Macarthur]

The problem with you telling me anything about 1967 is - you were born in 1971 when I was 24 years old. I lived in that time and that society. I don't hate cassius clay because he didn't want to die in some rice paddy, nobody did. Many got out of it however they could. It's all about the way he thumbed his nose at this country and the people who were fighting so he could keep sucking up the milk and honey. His attitude and big mouth said it all. You shoulda been here.

If I'm factually wrong, correct me, but this has nothing to do with me and my age. Just because I wasn't there doesn't mean I'm not educated about what was going on in the country.

So I'm clear, do you not like him 'draft dodging' or do you not like him because he liked to talk trash?

[speedbump]

If I'm factually wrong, correct me, but this has nothing to do with me and my age. Just because I wasn't there doesn't mean I'm not educated about what was going on in the country.

So I'm clear, do you not like him 'draft dodging' or do you not like him because he liked to talk trash?

A little of the dodging and a whole bunch about him talking trash about that and my country. I'm sure there is not another human being in this country,that I have less respect for. End of discussion

[Macarthur]

A little of the dodging and a whole bunch about him talking trash about that and my country. I'm sure there is not another human being in this country,that I have less respect for. End of discussion

Let me ask you this. Do you not at least one little bit, understand why a black person in the 1960s America would not be quite as motivated as you to die for this country?

[BwdLion73]

Let me ask you this. Do you not at least one little bit, understand why a black person in the 1960s America would not be quite as motivated as you to die for this country?

Goodness Macarthur, think about that for a second. What about WW ll ? I did not know anyone of any race that was "motivated" to die. It's the off season and HOT....but really if you want to discuss and debate I understand but ....

[speedbump]

Let me ask you this. Do you not at least one little bit, understand why a black person in the 1960s America would not be quite as motivated as you to die for this country?

https://army.togetherweserved.com/ar...erson&ID=59635

SP5 McClatchy's older brother Percy was KIA in Saigon in August 1966,

[Macarthur]

Goodness Macarthur, think about that for a second. What about WW ll ? I did not know anyone of any race that was "motivated" to die. It's the off season and HOT....but really if you want to discuss and debate I understand but ....

you're deflecting a bit.

Okay, so does 'fighting for one's country' make you feel better?

[Macarthur]

https://army.togetherweserved.com/ar...erson&ID=59635

SP5 McClatchy's older brother Percy was KIA in Saigon in August 1966,

You're not answering my question. There's no doubt that there were and have been people of all races and creeds that have paid the ultimate price.

What I'm asking you, is given what you know about civil rights in this country (seeing as how you were alive for a good part of it), can you not understand AT LEAST A LITTLE why SOME blacks might not want to go halfway across the globe and fight?

[MUSTANG69]

You're not answering my question. There's no doubt that there were and have been people of all races and creeds that have paid the ultimate price.

What I'm asking you, is given what you know about civil rights in this country (seeing as how you were alive for a good part of it), can you not understand AT LEAST A LITTLE why SOME blacks might not want to go halfway across the globe and fight?

Flipside to that. Can you not understand AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT why Speedbump may feel like he does. If you were old enough to experience that time period you might understand his feelings better. Experience is a lot more educational than reading about it. That's all I got to say.

[PurplePop]

Very interesting discussion. I agree with Matthew that at least Ali took a stand and paid a price for not going to Vietnam. He didn't box two years during his prime years (ages 25-26?). It wasn't the most convincing stand, that's for sure. But rich guys like George Bush, Al Gore, etc. found much more politically correct ways to avoid the fighting in Vietnam. I 100% respect and understand those who did fight despising Ali. I don't think race enters into it. Just money. As for Ali the boxer, by the mid-70's, he had slowed a bit from his prime. He would have been 29 or 30 when he fought Frazier the first time. He was already past his prime. Watch some highlights of Clay in the '60's. Pretty amazing.