Question on Offsides.......

[trojandad]

The officiating crew at our game on Fri night called every offsides as a dead ball penalty, meaning when the defense jumped offside they refs stopped the play, each and every time, no exceptions.

When I played, I prayed for an offside call so I could air out a long one without worrying about who caught it, never did the play stop. Did the rules change when I was asleep? Anyone with more knowledge than me about this, please let me know.

[xlr8tor]

I always thought it was stopped only when the offense was off-sides or when the defense made contact off-sides. But I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. Just my take.

[Phil C]

The one offside I don't understand is in soccer. How do you get offside in soccer? Can anyone help? Maybe Sinton 66 or PPHSFan can give us some insite. :)

[trojandad]

Well one or two of the penalties were "clear path to the QB" and I could understand, but many were off of hard cadence and the defense had jumped and was going backward across the line when the offense snapped the ball. But every last offsides was called a dead ball and play was stopped. I thought maybe UIL had been active over the summer or something.

I was pretty sure it was just this group of refs but I just wanted to ask. These guys weren't requiring the offense to be set a count before snapping, a punt was considered a live ball to them without being touched until they were convinced otherwise, things like that, so I'm sure it was probably just them but I thought I'd run it by you guys.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Offsides on the defense should not be a dead ball foul, unless it will provide an endangerment to the opponents QB at the start of the play, like a nose guard or LB in the middle of the linebacker in the backfield before the snap... i think, ill consult my dad, an official for over 17 years

[trojandad]

I appreciate that, 303, just so I would know if we ever get this group again. Sounds like he would know.

[whtfbplaya]

He is right it should not be a dead ball pen. unless the defense makes contact or if the defense jumps into the neutral zone and causes the offense to jump then it is a dead ball offsides on the defense(only if it is someone on offense that is adjacent or infront of the guy on d that jumped).

[slpybear the bullfan]

Phil C:
The one offside I don't understand is in soccer. How do you get offside in soccer? Can anyone help? Maybe Sinton 66 or PPHSFan can give us some insite. :) Phil, there CAN'T be offsides in Soccer! The people own the Rodina including the soccer fields, so how can you be offides if everything is your side...

wink

As always,

slpybear

PS - Trivia Question: "What was the best NBA finals ever?" wink

[trojandad]

The '95 sweep of the Shaq-led Magic by the Rockets? (Phil just lost brunch)...lol

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: trojandad ]</small>

[crzyjournalist03]

I don't know what the rule is, but I've always thought it should be equal.

If it's dead for false starts, it should be dead for offsides.

If you're going to let the play go on and let the offense choose between offsides and the play, let false starts go and let the defense choose.

[Green Ranger]

Soccer Offsides is as follows: If you are past mid-field, you must have a defender goal side of you or equal to you when the ball is played to you. You can however, as long as you are on your half of the field be the closet person to the goal, with the exception of the Goalie when the ball is played to you. There are some special circumstances to this rule but in general you have to have a defender equal or in front of you when the ball is played.

[Cameronbystander]

I believe that you probably have two illegal situations. Encroachment would be a live ball penalty (where someone lines up in the neutral zone) and Offsides (where a defensive player comes across the neutral zone and makes contact with an offensive player before the ball is snapped).

Also, on a punt, the ball is live until controlled by a player from the kicking team (not just touched) or the receiving team returns the ball and is downed by whatever method.

[trojandad]

The ball is live for the receiving team to either let lie or try to return, but these guys were calling that the punting team could recover it if allowed to lie on the ground. Was silly.

And yes, encroachment as well as lining up in the neutral zone are dealt with on the refs discretion but in the past have not been dead ball automatically but a judgement call.

One of our coaches told me that he went to the meeting this summer where the rule was changed where ALL offisides, encroachments, lining up in the neutral zone, ANY type of defensive offsides is going to be considered a dead ball penalty this year. I had not heard that before today. Oh well, live and learn.

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: trojandad ]</small>

[3afan2K3]

In hockey you get an offsides when you cross over to the other teams side, the the defenders are like the "blue line" in hockey, if player A has the ball and player B is on the other side of the defense and player A passes the ball to player B then it is an offsides unless the defense touches it.

.......B

D..D.....D

A(player A pases ball to player B, and it would be called offsides)

-------------- &lt;&lt;&lt;Mid Field

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: 3afan2K3 ]</small>

[TXMike]

Wow!!! Talk about confused interpretations!!!!

Sounds like some coaches and fans have some mistaken views on this. The defense simply being in the neutral zone is not reason for a dead ball foul, i.e. throw flag, blow whistle and stop everything. As one person pointed out, if the defense is in the neutral zone and an offensive lineman in front of him or directly adjacent moves in response, it is a dead ball foul on the defense. There is no "unabated to the QB" rule in our game . That is a NFL rule.

There is something that could cause a dead ball foul by the defense but it would not be offsides. If a defensive player within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage is jumping around making movements "unrelated to football" in an obvious attempt to cause an offensive player to jump, then we would whistle and flag immediately. It is signalled as delay of game against the defense, 5 yards.

[trojandad]

Well Mike, I finally got the stats tonight, there were 13 offsides called against us Fri night, unfortunately all deserved in my view, all were called "offsides" in the call and all were called dead ball. Rather than debate which was which, I can tell you the refs told both coaches that any "offsides" calls of any type would be whistled dead ball penalties. And they did. So I agree, somebody's confused, which is my entire reason for starting this thread. I played enough ball to have a good feel for whistling a ball dead as opposed to each and every jump being whistled dead.

Maybe I should get this ref group's names so you guys can watch for them at your games. Lord knows I hope we never get them again. Was a strange game to watch. Unfortunately, they didn't lose it for us, we lost it for ourselves. Would be nice to be able to blame it on them.

[TXMike]

Trojandad:

Can you tell me who played in the game and where it was played?

[trojandad]

Yes sir, Mr. Mike, it was Coldspring and Trinity at Trinity this past Friday night.

[whtfbplaya]

TxMike is right I left out the part about there not being encroachment in the ncaa rule book.

[TXMike]

There is encroachment in the NCAA rules. But it is defined as when an offensive player gets into or past the neutral zone after the snapper touches or simulates touching the ball or when a kicking team player is beyond his restraining line when ball is kicked. In the 1st case, it is immediately flagged and blown dead. In 2d, flag is thrown but play continues.

[trojandad]

TxMike, all the interpretations are great, but our Coach told us that before the game the refs told both sides that they would call each and every offsides penalty as a dead ball, irregardless of the catagory of offsides.

During the game there was not a single offsides call of any type that was not whistled dead.

We had almost all of the defensive offsides called on us which were deserved, but it amazed me during the game that Coach Hill for Trinity wasn't more livid about the refs stopping play if his offense could have continued on, but after having it explained that the coaches were prewarned of the refs calls to come, it made more sense to me.

I only started this thread to note that this was the first time I had ever been to a game where every defensive offsides call was whistled dead. I understand there are catagories that offsides can be called dead, but each and every offsides was stopped. It was just the first time I had ever seen it. People in the stands were going livid on both sides.

[Raider4ever]

I have a question also then... Ok in are last game against East Benard they where punting, one of are players was runing to block the punt but he got choped block and hit from his legs. The rice player lifted in the air some and fell forward on the Punters leg (and of course he fell down like I couldn't tell he faked the fall down) and then they called a pen... (I'm taking nothing away from the officals that night they called a good game) But what is ya'lls take on that? Should it be roughing the kicker, or should they have just let it go by?

[TXMike]

Trojandad:

I have never heard of an official in this State making the statement your coach says was made, if that is what was said. He might want to get that cleared up with whichever officiating Chapter covers his games because I GUARANTEE you it is not going to be called that way in other games.

Raider:
If a player is legally blocked and hits the punter, it is a foul on the player who hit the punter. (Could be running into or roughing depending on severity of contact) BUT, if a player is illegally blocked and hits the punter, the only foul is on the player who illegally blocked. Example: As the player runs in to block the kick he is clipped, blocked in the back above the waist, etc and hits the punter. No foul for running into or roughing but there is a foul for the clip, block in theback, etc.

In the scenario you gave you said the player was chop blocked. That would mean he was hit by 2 different punt team players, It would be a foul for anyone to block below the waist at anytime when there has been a legal kick during the down(i.e. from time ball is snapped, through the time ball is in the air, and through the time it is being returned.) If the rushing defender was on his feet and blocked below the waist, it is a foul. (Now if he jumps in the air and gets hit below the waist, that is NOT a foul)

[Raider4ever]

ty =)

[3afan]

<small>[ September 05, 2003, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: 3afan ]</small>