Commitment, Integrity, Family Values, Etc.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

The whole debate over the WOS volleyball players has been closed and I feel like there are some things that need to be clarified. I would really like to know what people's viewpoints are in situations like this.

First of all, everyone said that commitments were violated, so how do you discern which ones are more important to the education of our youth? If you look at volleyball, cheerleading, drill team, or any other extra curricular activity as a tool to promote education outside of the classroom, how can you rank them based on utility for the student in regards to learning? Further, how can you rank the commitments that are made and the value that they hold in each one of the students themselves and their parents and community?


I honestly never knew that there was a set criteria as to what is more valuable to an individual aside from their preconceived values and beliefs. I always thought these were independent to the individual and not up for interpretation by others. I also didn't know that there were differences in the level of commitment. I always viewed it as a commitment is a commitment, regardless of how important or how trivial it may be. Now, I do understand that the repercussions from breaking commitments are different, but the results are contingent upon what kind of an impact these results have based on how they are perceived by the individual.

Also, it was mentioned by several posters that the parents were to blame and that they as parents would have made a different choice. It was also said that these parents were teaching their kids how to lack integrity and break commitments. I too have a different viewpoint on this. I have always viewed integrity is doing what you say to the best of your abilities, and as soon as you know that you can't live up to your commitments, you need to let people know that you will not be able to. If you do that, you still maintain your integrity and your good name. It happens in peoples' lives that they break a commitment. Everyone is guilty, and how they handle breaking commitments determines how others view their integrity just as much as living up to a commitment does.

I also thought that it was healthy in families to allow children to have input and voice what they truly value. We have been raised our entire life about the freedom of choice in our society as being an American and our freedom of choice in the Bible that was bestowed upon us by God. What is so invariably wrong about letting kids make their own decisions about what they value in life? Regardless of whether or not it is good or bad from them in your eyes, it is an opportunity to learn from an experience. This isn't a life or death experience, only a chance for parents to hear from their children what they value and what they desire in their lives and allowing them to attain it. You have to understand that these girls are approaching adulthood and it is a positive thing to allow them to grow and develop, not live vicariously through them and dictate their life and make what choices you would in regards to their personal life and things they voluntarily involve themselves in with sports and other extra curricular activities.

Basically, the entire premise of this is simple: The kids on the volleyball team chose one commitment over the other. People are forgetting that they are a member of a team for volleyball and a team for cheerleading and dance. They chose one team over the other and informed everyone of their intentions. They never chose for the events to coincide and conflict with each other, but a decision had to be made and it was. The whole reason this topic was highlighted was because the majority of posters on here disagreed with the decision of the girls and immediately attacked their integrity and questioned the parenting of the girls themselves. It was said, and it fell on deaf ears, that it is not your place to judge how one child is brought up in a household, at least not on an open forum. If you want to make judgments about something, then that's fine, but do it internally and not try to tear other people down in the process. Even though it was not malicious, if I were a parent of one of these girls I would be very upset if someone questioned my judgment in allowing my kid to have the decision of what they wanted to do on a Friday night. Everyone is looking at this situation in the most close-minded and self-righteous way possible. One commitment was valued to those girls more than the other (cheerleading/dance over volleyball). A decision was made and was communicated that a commitment had to be broken. The decision was unpopular with the posters on the board who spoke about it for the most part, and that's fine, you don't have to like it. Regardless of how you feel, it does not mean that their parents did not teach them lessons in commitment or accountability or integrity, it means that they allowed their children to make a decision on what commitment they wanted to follow and uphold and which commitment they had to break. What they did was not lacking integrity in any way. The parents didn't do a bad job because they let their kids make an unpopular decision amongst the posters of this message board. It almost makes me sad that society demonstrates that because they disagree on a subject, then the other party is irrevocably wrong and flawed. Some of you will get this and understand it and agree, and others will look at it and shrug it off and call me an idiot because unlike themselves, I didn't look at this from a biased perspective and an attitude that my opinion is always correct. I really don't care, the bottom line is that I feel sorry for the people who fail to see the situation from another perspective than the one that they already have.

Also, because I know it will be brought up: the commitment to the teammates on the volleyball team who could not participate because their teammates abandoned them....we have nothing concrete about what was said in the locker room amongst the coaches and the players and the decision that they arrived at. Yes, I know that they could have played the football game without the cheerleaders and drill team members but the volleyball team could not have continued, but that is beyond the point. We don't know what was discussed on and agreed upon by the teammates. We can only speculate, and for some, that means assume the worst and create the most negative conclusion possible.

In closing, I would like to applaud the girls from WOS for doing what they thought would make them the happiest and they would gain the most utility from. I also would like to applaud the parents for standing by their daughters and allowing them to make the decision that they would be the most positive for themselves.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Sorry if this seems like a lecture. I meant no disrespect to the older posters at all. I know the last thing you want is to read me tell you about the goings on in life, but I feel like some people questioned the way I looked at things and was providing my opinion only on certain subjects. Doesn't mean that it's the gospel or everyone will agree to that, that's just how I was raised and how I perceive things. And I don't think that anybody can say honestly that I am not a man of integrity or open-minded about the opinions and actions of others. I just hope that maybe some people can see that they made a hasty decision and failed to open their eyes and look at this in a different viewpoint than their own. I think it was very insulting to those young ladies and their families. I do personally believe that they should have played volleyball, but that's just my competitive nature at heart.

[CenTexSports]

ONCE YOU GIVE UP YOUR INTEGRITY

EVERYTHING ELSE IS A PIECE OF CAKE.


J.R. Ewing

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
ONCE YOU GIVE UP YOUR INTEGRITY

EVERYTHING ELS IS A PIECE OF CAKE.


J.R. Ewing

I actually went to a conference with a distinguished speaker here at A&M last Spring at one of our Wiley Lecture Series events. I wish I knew what his name was, but he taught me things I never considered about integrity. Most of those dealt with living up to commitments and how it was acceptable to not be able to live up to them as long as you were accountable and upfront. He also talked about team-building and character and how every member of an organization or a team is compared to a spoked bicycle tire and the more flaws there are in the integrity of the spokes the less effective that bicycle tire is at doing its job as a whole. It kind of put things into perspective from a team standpoint in that regard and showed how powerful integrity can be. You don't tell people that you're going to try to do something, you either do it or you don't at the conclusion. If you use try instead of, "I will" or "I do" then you are giving yourself and out and weaken your overall integrity because of your inability as a person to commit. It's effective for promoting trust within a team, unity, and increased productivity. In the end it was all about maintaining integrity by being honest, responsible and accountable, and firm. I learned it was more effective from a psychological and trust standpoint to tell someone something definite and if I can't live up to that commitment to be upfront than it is to just say maybe or I will do my best.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

In closing, I would like to applaud the girls from WOS for doing what they thought would make them the happiest ...

Wow.

[pirate4state]

Shouldn't you be studying? Anyone ever tell you you talk too much? I do appreciate you using paragraphs. :D

Now, get back to your books!

[pancho villa]

Them WOS girls are doing what is best. Girls need to be chearleading and dancing! NOT PLAYING SPORTS! They suck at it anyway!

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I actually went to a conference with a distinguished speaker here at A&M last Spring at one of our Wiley Lecture Series events. I wish I knew what his name was, but he taught me things I never considered about integrity. Most of those dealt with living up to commitments and how it was acceptable to not be able to live up to them as long as you were accountable and upfront. He also talked about team-building and character and how every member of an organization or a team is compared to a spoked bicycle tire and the more flaws there are in the integrity of the spokes the less effective that bicycle tire is at doing its job as a whole. It kind of put things into perspective from a team standpoint in that regard and showed how powerful integrity can be. You don't tell people that you're going to try to do something, you either do it or you don't at the conclusion. If you use try instead of, "I will" or "I do" then you are giving yourself and out and weaken your overall integrity because of your inability as a person to commit. It's effective for promoting trust within a team, unity, and increased productivity. In the end it was all about maintaining integrity by being honest, responsible and accountable, and firm. I learned it was more effective from a psychological and trust standpoint to tell someone something definite and if I can't live up to that commitment to be upfront than it is to just say maybe or I will do my best.

I believe that diversity is a very old wooden ship... and that you are wrong. Didnt you read the other thread. I was put in my place and chastised for not wanting to be an arm chair parent. ;) ;)

I think there is a difference in expressing what you would do as a parent and degrading HS girls and their parents for CHOOSING a different commitment. Just my opinion...

[Bullaholic]

Gary, there is enough subject matter in your post to hold a symposium. I would enjoy meeting you in person one day to be able to just sit down and have an intelligent exchange of ideas and philosophies, even though we are probably on different sides of the street politically and generationally. In my younger days(indulge me here :D), I was a lot like you and strongly tested the older generation and the establishment---not to be rebelious, but rather to find out how strongly others believed in their principles and ideals, before I was willing to embrace them---I find a lot of that in you, and I think that is admirable as long as you can still have an open mind.

[wimbo_pro]

I got a question about integrity...a hypothetical question (lets get off the WOS stuff)...

A coach teaches his football team a play to be used in a game that is clearly against the rules. Everyone knows this in advance, but the chances of scoring with it are very high. They practice the illegal trick play all week. There is absolutely no doubt that the play is against the rules.

The kids all want to do it. They want to win this game, no matter what. They express their desire to the coaches to use this illegal play...its what they really want to do.

The coach uses the play in the game. They win by using this illegal trick play.

Though the kids did exactly what they wanted to do, do they have integrity? Should they be punished? Should the coach be punished?

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I got a question about integrity...a hypothetical question (lets get off the WOS stuff)...

A coach teaches his football team a play to be used in a game that is clearly against the rules. Everyone knows this in advance, but the chances of scoring with it are very high. They practice the illegal trick play all week. There is absolutely no doubt that the play is against the rules.

The kids all want to do it. They want to win this game, no matter what. They express their desire to the coaches to use this illegal play...its what they really want to do.

The coach uses the play in the game. They win by using this illegal trick play.

Though the kids did exactly what they wanted to do, do they have integrity? Should they be punished? Should the coach be punished?

You should be punished for making an apples to oranges comparison to try to prove a point. It wasnt unethical or illegal, but you are likening the two.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by rockdale80
You should be punished for making an apples to oranges comparison to try to prove a point. It wasnt unethical or illegal, but you are likening the two.

I think you missed my intention. i am not comparing the two...this is a topic about ethics, not WOS. This event actually happened, I am asking for views on teaching kids to cheat....nothing to do with WOS.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I think you missed my intention. i am not comparing the two...this is a topic about ethics, not WOS. This event actually happened, I am asking for views on teaching kids to cheat....nothing to do with WOS.

Gotcha:)

I think if you arent willing to cheat to win then you dont want to win bad enough. :D

j/k

[wimbo_pro]

lol...thats only valid in the workplace!! j/k

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I got a question about integrity...a hypothetical question (lets get off the WOS stuff)...

A coach teaches his football team a play to be used in a game that is clearly against the rules. Everyone knows this in advance, but the chances of scoring with it are very high. They practice the illegal trick play all week. There is absolutely no doubt that the play is against the rules.

The kids all want to do it. They want to win this game, no matter what. They express their desire to the coaches to use this illegal play...its what they really want to do.

The coach uses the play in the game. They win by using this illegal trick play.

Though the kids did exactly what they wanted to do, do they have integrity? Should they be punished? Should the coach be punished?

If you ain't cheating
you ain't trying hard enough!

[ziggy29]

This whole episode is an illustration of the potential problems inherent with having people "commit" to multiple teams and activities which can sometimes conflict.

It may be true that some of the VB girls and/or their parents decided to skip the VB commitment to honor the dance team commitment. But that is rather unfair to the VB team members who (a) did not agree to that choice and (b) those who aren't even ON the dance team.

Having said that, the converse would have been true of the choice to play VB relative to the girls who were not on the VB team but had to limp along with a "skeleton crew" (if they could even perform at all).

So what's the answer? I don't know. Unless there's no way to avoid these potential conflicts with scheduling changes, they are going to be inevitable (but hopefully rare) as long as a significant number of people are involved in multiple extracurriculars.

I also suspect this can become more and more common as college admissions get more and more competitive and extracurriculars can become a consideration on who is accepted and who isn't. That could lead to kids feeling like they have to be involved in *more* extracurriculars, make *more* commitments to various teams and clubs and lead to more conflicts like this one...

[RedWhiteBlue]

What was it Gus said about cheating at cards in Lonesome Dove?;)

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by pancho villa
If you ain't cheating
you ain't trying hard enough!

LOL.

In all honesty, I think the coach should be fired and barred from ever coaching kids again. Maybe a life sentence is a bit harsh...but someone needs to let this idiot know that this is/was wrong, and definitely teaches the kids the WRONG lesson for life ahead.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
LOL.

In all honesty, I think the coach should be fired and barred from ever coaching kids again. Maybe a life sentence is a bit harsh...but someone needs to let this idiot know that this is/was wrong, and definitely teaches the kids the WRONG lesson for life ahead.

Coach's teach ways to hold an opposing player. Is that cheating?

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Coach's teach ways to hold an opposing player. Is that cheating?

teaching players to push the limits of the established rules with hopes of not getting called for going over the limit (and knowing there will be a penalty if they DO go over the limit) is quite different from teaching and practicing an illegal trick play... that is cheating.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
In all honesty, I think the coach should be fired and barred from ever coaching kids again. Maybe a life sentence is a bit harsh...but someone needs to let this idiot know that this is/was wrong, and definitely teaches the kids the WRONG lesson for life ahead.
In your example, I think the officials would need to be reprimanded too, for allowing a blatantly illegal play to stand as valid without throwing a flag on it.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by ziggy29
In your example, I think the officials would need to be reprimanded too, for allowing a blatantly illegal play to stand as valid without throwing a flag on it.

Ziggy...I dont think they caught it. I could be wrong, but I think it fooled them too. Not 100% of that though.

[CenTexSports]

It was probably an elligible numbered player lined up in a non-elligible position. This occassionally gets by the officials and it is easy to do on a kick play.

IMO, a coach that does this intenionally should be suspended. It is blantant cheating.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
It was probably an elligible numbered player lined up in a non-elligible position. This occassionally gets by the officials and it is easy to do on a kick play.

IMO, a coach that does this intenionally should be suspended. It is blantant cheating.

As I remember, there is a video of it. The offense ran a pass play, and purposely ran a receiver off the field into their own bench area...then another player was waiting up field a bit, and he ran onto the field and the QB threw to him.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
IMO, a coach that does this intenionally should be suspended. It is blantant cheating.
Probably so -- but proving intent is very difficult without investigations, interviews with other coaches and players and so on.

And investigating it to determine intent could put some of the players in an awkward situation -- "out" their own coach as an intentional cheater or lie. I don't think it's right to put high school kids into that situation.

[big daddy russ]

Dang, Gary. A whole lotta meat in that juice. Most of it's still marinating.

I didn't read the WOS thread, but that's a valid take on integrity. I have a bad habit of committing to too many things at once and taking on more than I can handle.

Does that affect my personal intergrity? That's a good question. And that also boils down to the meat of the topic. Does it mean that you don't have integrity if someone else thinks you don't but you've done everything humanly possible to meet their expectations and genuinely just feel short of time?

Not saying that it's one way or the other, just throwing out some more questions.

On that note, there's a great quote in the sig of one of the Downlowers. Can't remember whose sig, but it says something to the effect of "Don't worry about blah blah. Blah blah is what others think of you, character is who you are on the inside." Want to say it's a Wooden or Lombardi quote.



wimbo pro--I think there are too many factors that we don't know about before jumping to a conclusion on this. One of my favorite political minds has a quote that says something to the effect that too many people are quick to speak and quick to act when they should be quicker to listen. Goes on to talk about how the one rare, priceless value many politicians lack and that we as constituents don't even care about is wisdom.

Marilyn Manson showed a ton of wisdom after being blamed for the Columbine deaths. In his first interview, he was asked what he would tell the kids who committed these murders if he could go back in time and talk to them for a day. He responded by saying that he wouldn't tell them anything. He'd listen.

I know that's all circling the central point, but it comes back around to this: I'd have to hear all the details of the play--how it was executed, etc.-- before coming to a conclusion.

[wimbo_pro]

Can't find it on YouTube Russ...so just for the sake of a hypothetical discussion, assume it to be true then...if you DID see it and it was clearly evident to you as I described it (clearly cheating with the full support of the coaches), what would be your view?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Russ, In essence you echoed some of the underlying tones of what I was trying to demonstrate, and it was basically that we don't know what kind of an arrangement or agreement took place amongst the players, coaches, and the families to make this decision, or even the factors that determined the ultimate result.

Further, everyone was quick to judge and point the finger and place fault unjustly and unfairly on individuals when they didn't know the full facts of the situation itself as previously mentioned. And the thing that bothered me the most about that was the self-righteous attitude that so many people maintained throughout their contentions. The way I perceived a lot of the commentary was that first of all, the parents aren't doing a sufficient job of teaching their children about life values in the form of commitment and integrity. The second part was that they were implying that these young ladies lacked commitment and integrity because of the decision they made, and because their parents supported their kids to make a choice in which commitment to uphold and which one to break they are at fault as well. This occurred in no particular order.

This completely ignores the fact that one sacrifice had to be made and one commitment had to be broken. It wasn't a matter of the underlying facts of the situation, it was the assumptions that were made that were disgusting, for lack of a better word. Breaking a commitment was inevitable at the end of the day, and the one that was chosen by the young ladies was the one that caused backlash. If they would have chosen to play volleyball instead, nobody would have complained at all about the outcome because it was what they viewed as positive, constructive, and appealing in their own eyes.

Instead of demonstrating patience, understanding, and even a some compassion (a la Phil C) for these young ladies for having to make a difficult decision with implications that included not only themselves and their teammates, posters refrained from investigating facts and causal factors to create a valid conclusion for making specific assertions. The negative commentary was almost instantaneous. Nobody was willing to look at the situation and say these young ladies are having to sacrifice something and that is unfortunate, it was instead met with blatant and inconsiderate remarks about the character of those young ladies and the poor parenting practices because the parents stood by the decision of free will by their daughters. I truly felt sorry for these young ladies and their parents and I hope that none of them read what negative things have been said about them on this message board.

When people are the defendant in court they always want their side of the story to be heard and the opportunity to demonstrate and prove their own innocence; they also want the ability to maintain a positive public image, which increases exponentially if they are truly innocent and will be exonerated. Nobody wants to be labeled a sex offender by the public when they are innocent and before they face trial and the charges are dropped. I know the implications of a court case and this argument are different in nature and consequence, but at the end of the day everyone still wants to maintain their good name and that is a sufficient comparison because of the similar factors. Slanderous assertions and acts of defamation, especially to young girls in high school and their parents should not be acceptable and rationalized by anybody on here. If someone gets up in front of the world says I lack commitment and integrity, I will definitely take that as a blow to my reputation as would anyone with deserved self-respect. I guess people are forgetting the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as they will do to you." Everyone wants the opportunity to be judged fairly and appropriately, but doing it in return is a concept that some apparently have failed to grasp.

To the poster who said that I am challenging authority and I still have a lot to learn, I'm sorry that I strongly disagree. I have a system of deeply-rooted values and preconceived notions of life and what is right and wrong. This isn't me challenging anything, it's me trying to share a perspective with my fellow board members that many failed to see, and I hope that it was just an oversight and not one that was done in malice. It makes it hard to believe it was just an oversight based on the strong convictions that some maintain, and that is truly disappointing. I find it quite condescending when adults say that my values are going to change the older that I get and with the greater wisdom I attain through life experiences. I'm firm and very set in my ways. I try to be as respectful as I can and more often than not resort to reciprocate what is given to me when I approach a debate about any arbitrary topic. No matter how old I get, I will still view integrity, commitments, and what is right and what is wrong the same way. That is something that is going to be universal. My education and experiences shape my beliefs, and surely they will change over time, everyone's do, but you say it with the notion that my ideas and beliefs and opinions are wrong and that yours are superior. Honestly, I can't help but reject that ideal because it is very insulting to me as an educated young adult. Even though you didn't explicitly state it, it was heavily implied. I could have read too much into that, but I took what you said as a backhanded compliment that acknowledges my what I am capable of but how I am not "living up to it" per say. With the condescending dribble that is posted on here sometimes it is hard to get what is genuine confused with what is derogatory and negative.

Russ, I don't think that integrity changes just because some people are too demanding of you. That isn't something that is your fault, but it is important to communicate at all times what you are and what you are not capable of in order to maintain your integrity in the eyes of certain individuals. Your ability to do things is sometimes implied, and sometimes you have to be blunt and honest and say that you cannot commit to something. I think that is the best way to go about it when you feel like someone is being too demanding. You ultimately have control over the expectations that people have for you, whether or not you come out and accept the burden of a commitment or if it is because someone simply thinks that you are capable of doing something, and thus will do it and gives you that commitment. I may have digressed a substantial amount, but I did my best to answer your question.

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Russ, In essence you echoed some of the underlying tones of what I was trying to demonstrate, ...
... I may have digressed a substantial amount, but I did my best to answer your question.
DON'T DO DRUGS! :D

Post #2975

[STANG RED]

I read a paper one time that stated “over-rationalization can lead to irrational outcomes”. The paper was very long, and very informative, but was quiet boring for the most part. This thread reminds me a lot of that paper. Only not nearly as well written. :D

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I read a paper one time that stated “over-rationalization can lead to irrational outcomes”. The paper was very long, and very informative, but was quiet boring for the most part. This thread reminds me a lot of that paper. Only not nearly as well written. :D

You read all that????

[wimbo_pro]

I am reminded of one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite comedies..."My Cousin Vinny"

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
You read all that????

Well of course I did. I’m almost as in love with BBDE’s intellectual superiority as he is. Aren’t you? ;) ;) ;)

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
DON'T DO DRUGS! :D
"Drugs are bad because if you do drugs, you're a hippie. And hippies suck." -- Eric Cartman

[garciap77]

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

College Kids!:D




;)

[LE Dad]

More P4S, Benny, and GP77 please!! :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Well of course I did. I’m almost as in love with BBDE’s intellectual superiority as he is. Aren’t you? ;) ;) ;)

It isn't difficult to maintain intellectual superiority when you're comparing it to the populace that comprises this message board.

Wimbo, where is your rebuttal? Your attempt at mockery isn't going to prove anything other than you lack a mature and well-prepared and valid response.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
More P4S, Benny, and GP77 please!! :D

:clap: :clap: :clap:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/soccer_hot_girls-415x181-350x170.jpg

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
It isn't difficult to maintain intellectual superiority when you're comparing it to the populace that comprises this message board.

Wimbo, where is your rebuttal? Your attempt at mockery isn't going to prove anything other than you lack a mature and well-prepared and valid response.

http://www.smilieland.com/graphics/smilepuke.gif































;)

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
It isn't difficult to maintain intellectual superiority when you're comparing it to the populace that comprises this message board.


On behalf of all the intellectual midgets that make up the populace of this lowly message board, we humbly thank you for gracing us with your daily doses of genius that so enrich our otherwise pitiful little lives. How any of us ever got along those many years before your brilliance was prevailed up on us, is beyond me.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
It isn't difficult to maintain intellectual superiority when you're comparing it to the populace that comprises this message board.

Wimbo, where is your rebuttal? Your attempt at mockery isn't going to prove anything other than you lack a mature and well-prepared and valid response.

BBDE...I like you. I think you show a lot of promise and energy and passion. I just don't want to say something that might entice a response that could lock up everyone's computer with overloaded bandwidth errors. To be honest with you, I didnt read but a fraction of your comments. It's just too much... Going "Joe Biden" on us doesn't get your point across. Focus...and cut it down to 1/4th the size.

I see a lot of me (when I was 22 or so) in your comments ...not the left wing Keith Olberman/Rachel Maddow "we are all stardust" crap, but the intensity. However, I think you will one day come to the same conclusion that I did when i was about 40 or so, which is..."I remember that I once felt that way about certain things, but for the life of me, I can't remember WHY THE HELL I ever felt that way".

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
"I remember that I once felt that way about certain things, but for the life of me, I can't remember WHY THE HELL I ever felt that way".

Are you trying to tell us you're gay? Haha

In all seriousness, I tried to avoid doing what I did in this thread on the original. I knew that nobody would read all of it and the point would be lost. But if you really want to know what I was trying to spell out all along, step by step, with supporting evidence, then feel free to read it. I wasn't trying to prove that I was smarter than anyone, I just felt like a point needed to be proven and certain things needed to be said.

I do take pride in my intellect, but STANG RED seems to have the opinion that I believe that I'm the smartest person here and what I say is golden and everyone else is a dumbass. I don't think that's fair. Ever since I became a member at 14 years old I have constantly been subject to having what I said put under the most scrutiny because it was assumed that since I am young, my information is not credible. Since that was the case I have learned that when I am trying to prove a point I do my best to provide credible information and deliver it in a way that demonstrates knowledge and is easy to understand. That is why I get so long-winded at times. It isn't as much that I have an attitude that I am the smartest person here, it's just the nature of the board itself has made me present an argument the way that I do. Just want to throw in that even though I said I don't believe everyone here is a dumbass, doesn't mean I don't think more than a few post here. Haha

[RedWhiteBlue]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
BBDE...I like you. I think you show a lot of promise and energy and passion. I just don't want to say something that might entice a response that could lock up everyone's computer with overloaded bandwidth errors. To be honest with you, I didnt read but a fraction of your comments. It's just too much... Going "Joe Biden" on us doesn't get your point across. Focus...and cut it down to 1/4th the size.

I see a lot of me (when I was 22 or so) in your comments ...not the left wing Keith Olberman/Rachel Maddow "we are all stardust" crap, but the intensity. However, I think you will one day come to the same conclusion that I did when i was about 40 or so, which is..."I remember that I once felt that way about certain things, but for the life of me, I can't remember WHY THE HELL I ever felt that way".

Awesome!! And still didn't read his other response....:D :clap:

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Are you trying to tell us you're gay? Haha



What did you have in mind, big guy???LOL

I understand what you are saying...like I said, I have been there. One of the things they teach you in sales training is called "The Elevator Pitch". Imagine you have your 20 minute sales pitch all prepared and ready to give to the Vice President, and then you get into the elevator to go up and give it to him/her. Suddenly, you find yourself alone in the elevator with the President!! You have less than 30 seconds to make your point. GO!!!!

I think it was Shakespeare who wrote: "Brevity is the soul of wit."

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Are you trying to tell us you're gay? Haha

In all seriousness, I tried to avoid doing what I did in this thread on the original. I knew that nobody would read all of it and the point would be lost. But if you really want to know what I was trying to spell out all along, step by step, with supporting evidence, then feel free to read it. I wasn't trying to prove that I was smarter than anyone, I just felt like a point needed to be proven and certain things needed to be said.

I do take pride in my intellect, but STANG RED seems to have the opinion that I believe that I'm the smartest person here and what I say is golden and everyone else is a dumbass. I don't think that's fair. Ever since I became a member at 14 years old I have constantly been subject to having what I said put under the most scrutiny because it was assumed that since I am young, my information is not credible. Since that was the case I have learned that when I am trying to prove a point I do my best to provide credible information and deliver it in a way that demonstrates knowledge and is easy to understand. That is why I get so long-winded at times. It isn't as much that I have an attitude that I am the smartest person here, it's just the nature of the board itself has made me present an argument the way that I do. Just want to throw in that even though I said I don't believe everyone here is a dumbass, doesn't mean I don't think more than a few post here. Haha

Its okay brother. I am 7 years older than you and I still get told that one day I will grow up and my values and beliefs will change. Apparently, the older you get the more narrow your mind gets; so we have that to look forward to. ;)

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Its okay brother. I am 7 years older than you and I still get told that one day I will grow up and my values and beliefs will change. Apparently, the older you get the more narrow your mind gets; so we have that to look forward to. ;)

LOL@Rockdale...ummmm, no...not narrower...just more accurate...you still got a ways to go! lol

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
BBDE... I didnt read but a fraction of your comments. It's just too much...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


+1 :vrycnfsd: