Seeking alternate scholarships to college

[Old Cardinal]

A few years ago, I watched Eric Eshbach, from Orangefield, break the HS National Pole Vault record and trip off to Nebraska on a full scholarship. It seems there is a strong trend of youth dedicating their energy toward-- track, golf, tennis, field sports, cross country,swimming, baseball, softball. Traditionally basketball and football were the only scholarships actively sought, in 3A. It appears that specializing for scholarship purposes is getting to be the primary thrust in some of our 3A schools, just as it has been for sometime in the 5A schools across Texas. What is the trend in your school district?

[slpybear the bullfan]

Old Cardinal...

Please see the post I just put up for you...

http://bbs.3adownlow.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013908

[Pudlugger]

OldCardinal you may be unaware of the negative impact Title IX has had on many of these lesser men's sports. Since the number of scholarships available in any one school is limited and Title IX sets very strict rules on how much has to go to women athlete's, men's sports like wrestling, swimming and even track have in many cases been discontinued. UCLA has just announced it is discountining its men's swimming team . Remember Mark Spitz? He swam for UCLA. Oh well at least UCLA will still offer women's LaCrosse scholarships.

[Old Cardinal]

I guess I see Title IX not as a negative impact. If you are a dedicated and skilled girl athlete-- it gives the girls a sporting chance to get scholarships also. There is no reason to cut out boys sports because they have to share the available scholarships with the girls. If you are good enough at any sport you will get a 4 year free ride. I think you will be seeing women ADs in HS schools in just a few years. I know qualified women with transcripts full of
A's that might be very good administrators. Sorry, but I enjoy watching and supporting both boys and girls sports.

[Old Cardinal]

Thanks Splybear, That was a good article. Can you share with us what the prospects are of Bridgeport and Decatur this season?

[slpybear the bullfan]

Yeah, let me work a little on it when the season gets closer and I get the previews from schools.

I know Kasi is back for her senior year and she looks better and better each year.

[Phil C]

I agree with you Old. I also enjoy watching both boys and girls sports. I attend the girls more so because they don't have the attendance support the boys have even though it is getting better.

[airitout]

Old Cardinal....have enjoyed reading your posts. One thing I would like to help clear up though is that full ride scholarships are very hard to come by. Full rides are generally reserved for football and basketball only. In the sports with fewer spectators, you can sometimes play your way into a better scholarship. I know several baseball players that did not get the full ride until jr or sr seasons. Before my daughter signed her national letter of intent, we got some very good advise from a coach in South Carolina. She told us to find a place where she would be happy and if the scholarship made it affordable to go there, then sign when the offer is made. If you wait for a full ride, you may be left in the cold. The point was, make sure you choose a place where your son or daughter can succeed and be happy and count your blessings that the school is willing to pick up part of the tab. It was the best advise we received during all the recruiting process and made the selection much easier. If you are about to go through the recruiting process with your child, keep smiling and my prayers are with you.

[BrahmaMom]

Great advice. The recruiting ride is a tough one. They all say what you want to hear, promise you anything, but few come through with the money. Best of luck. You want your child happy. There is no scholarship in the world worth an unhappy child.

[airitout]

When a coach promises nothing and let's things progress naturally, holler bingo because you probably have a winner

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: airitout ]</small>

[Old Cardinal]

To Airitout: I started this out talking about a kid setting a new National HS record-now that kind of activity will get you a free ride. I totally agree with you that there are good athletes that get partial offers, and that is good! There are some great scholarships out there but you have to be exceptional....Example-I go to the National AFA 18 & U and a lot of the Big ASA etc: tournaments-- and there are girls that get good scholarship offers. There are also a multitude of other good girls that get the partial scholarship offers, or offers to very small no-name programs....It is interesting, the astute Scouts are already listing girls(Mostly Pitchers, Catchers, Homerun hitters) that are 13-14-15-16- off the better Select teams. Yes, they will not be contacted until the appropriate time-but they are aware of the top-flight performers.

[slpybear the bullfan]

AIRITOUT... Glad to hear from you. I hope your daughter is enjoying school. Have a merry Christmas!!!

[Pudlugger]

Old Cardinal:
I guess I see Title IX not as a negative impact. If you are a dedicated and skilled girl athlete-- it gives the girls a sporting chance to get scholarships also. There is no reason to cut out boys sports because they have to share the available scholarships with the girls. If you are good enough at any sport you will get a 4 year free ride. I think you will be seeing women ADs in HS schools in just a few years. I know qualified women with transcripts full of
A's that might be very good administrators. Sorry, but I enjoy watching and supporting both boys and girls sports.There is only so much money to go around, they don't print money at these schools. When the law says you must fund x number of scholarships for non-revenue producing women's sports the money comes from the revenue producing sports, i.e. football, basketball and in some cases baseball-all men's sports. Women's basketball is in most cases not revenue positive yet, but in some programs it is looking positive. My point is that in order to meet the stringent requirements of TitleIX many schools find it difficult to continue funding men's non-revenue sports as there is not enough money for both. The costs of funding a non-revenue producing sport goes far beyond just scholarships and that is a problem for many men's sports like wrestling, water-polo and even swimming. You are a fan of women's sports and that is great, I enjoy some as well but TitleIX is a zero sum deal, it takes from some sports ands gives to others often with little regard to fairness or the interests of those involved. In many cases colleges have to fund women's sports even though they have difficulty finding enough women athlete's willing to participate. Thats just crazy! In many cases colleges and universities are funding women's sports even though there is not great interest or demand by the students for them while more popular sports like men's wrestling or swimming are not offered even though many athlete's are interested in them. It is social engineering, just another example of the elite liberal establishment deciding what is best for us "simple folks" and then shoving it down our throats.

[Pudlugger]

And another thing OldCard, TitleIX is a hungry beast wanting more and more funding perogitives. Now it is wrestling and swimming but don't kid yourself. Football is next. Women play basketball and softball but not football. Football is a national icon of masculinity and it really gets the feminists' back up. There has already been movement by feminist social engineers in many universities to reduce the impact of football...for example Vanderbilt recently moved to discontinue football scholarship entirely. I wonder how many folks on this board would like to see this become a national trend. Do you think volleball or softball will pump up the alumni like a UT-aTm football game? That's my point.

<small>[ December 20, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Pudlugger ]</small>

[BrahmaMom]

Pud, I'm a woman, and yet I couldn't agree with you more. Most females, by the time they get to college, aren't interested in putting in 20 hours or more a week into a sport. Those that are, can look at colleges that meet that need and interest. My son looked at Vanderbilt, thank goodness that wasn't a mistake we made. They recruited him hard, too, I wonder if they knew this was a possibility.

[Old Cardinal]

To Pud: I question your statements about "revenue producing sports". I love football, but what I see are 3/4 of a million dollars of non-revenue producing Coaches on the sidelines. The gate tickets do not make up the difference. I know a lot of these Coaches in SE Texas and many never played a down of football anywhere. It's seems passing a course of P.E. hours automatically makes you a Coach. I think that the sidelines full of Coaches, makes football a non-revenue producing sport!....I see good teachers that are math, chemistry, physics, and other teachers that are livid about P. E. Majors...There is a host of teachers that think men's sports have destroyed the raise potential for skill academic teachers...I hear teachers all the time that say that 1/3rd of the Coaches are "men who could never grow up".... I really have no opinion on that- but their is definately hard feelings down there at most HS faculty situations between classroom teachers and Coaches....One thing we can agree on is that Title IX has been on the books for a long time--College were slow to come into compliance and HS have not even made a dent in upholding the law of the land...I don't think its a liberal control thing, there are a lot of us staunch conservatives(with daughters and grandaughters) that want to see fairness for both genders on scholarships. Football is great but some of the other sports are growing in attendence at a steady clip.

[Pudlugger]

Your disdain for the coaching profession is clear in your post. No further comment on that is warranted. As for the revenue issue,it is not just the gate that produces revenue. Have you heard of TV? They actually pay money to put DI football on prime time (when have you seen a volleyball game with the viewership of a UT-aTm game on Saturday afternoon TV?). BTW, I have daughters who were athletes too, that doesn't give me the right to be indifferent to the injustice of TitleIX. As a conservative you seem to have abandoned any semblance of free market considerations when it is your ox being gored. If people want women's sports on their TVs Saturday afternoons then more women's sports will be promoted in the universities. As it is now the feminists are forcing it down our throats.

[Old Cardinal]

My comments mainly concerned HS sports and revenue-that's not on TV. I have a lot of Coaching friends, many of them make like comments about some of the Coaches-just drawing taxpayer salaries. I am a proponent of free enterprise but I can't see how football reigning supreme over everyone else is a productive form of enterprise? Title IX is just trying to level the fields of play. I do watch both the college boys and girls with equal enthusiam, on several sporting endeavors. To be quite honest, it amazes me how women's sports have grown with so many people that attempt to be obstacles to their well- being and growth.

[cubs]

Trust me, Old Cardinal - there are also a lot of teachers who are just drawing their salary from the taxpayers and in private industry and the corporate world - we see this, too. Many people are not in a profession they are cut out for or that they love and are just going thru the motions - to get that salary - unfortunately the children are the ones to suffer. And, then, again - some people put forth minimal effort and expect maximum results - as we all know - it just doesn't work that way!

[Bell_06]

There is a difference between college and high school when you are talking about Title IX. Also if you take into account that taxpayers are backing the public schools there is a need for the administration to address this issue. As far as I'm concerned in Bellville there are great violations in place. I'm surprised that more parents have not stepped up to question decisions being made. Unfortunately as long as our football team is winning no other sport matters. I do wonder if larger 5A schools are running into the same problems.

[airitout]

For the above arguments to wash, you have to assume all of the sports mentioned pay their own way. Only the schools in the BCS conferences pay their way as a general rule. Baseball does not pay its way in any conference. There are exceptions to that but not many. So, if it is such a drain, why do they do it? Colleges are competing for students just like a business competes for customers. Why do they promote female athletics? Diversity, both racial and gender are huge considerations for major universities. Other reasons women's sports are appealing to a university is the positive impact on graduation rates. When schools report to the NCAA on graduations, they are judged on athletes, not specific sports. The breakdown among sports is a media thing, not NCAA. That's why you never hear an athletic director complain about Title IX. Why would a non-revenue producing men's team be more important than a women's team? I can assure you, if a school does not have enough athletes to fill a roster, it will not last long. Another consideration is what these girls contribute to the school. Is an outstanding volleyball player more valuable to the school than a pretty good football player? When was the last time you heard of a female athlete arrested for drugs, etc? The long and short of it is, the NCAA is not going to increase the number of available sholarships for any sport so why point the finger at Title IX? It takes nothing away from the sacred cows of college athletics. Another post above mentioned 20 hours/week and most girls don't want to do that. I can assure you the 20 hour rule works out to be much closer to 35 hours when you count travel, non-mandatory practice, etc. If my daughter only spent 20 hours per week on golf, she would never qualify for a tournament. I am happy and proud that she dedicated the time needed to get this scholarship and still has the competitive fire to continue the work. It is fitting that dedicated kids, both male and female, are rewarded. Sorry for the length of this post.

[Bell_06]

A great posting AirItOut, and your last sentence summed it up.."It is fitting that dedicated kids, both male and female, are rewarded"

[BrahmaMom]

airitout: Yes, the 20+ hours does end up to be a lot more. Very few girls want to devote that much time to a sport. To those that do, they should be able to. I think there are schools that are known for girls collegiate athletics and that would be where the female athletes would go to play after high school, they seek out the schools with the better programs, anyway. Congratulations to your daughter, who is willing to do what it takes to succeed. On the coaching issue, I had a brother-in-law who coached football at the high school and college level his entire life. When at the HS level, he was one of the brightest, most loved and respected algebra teachers in Iowa. I learned then that TX has the "stigma" of coaches taking the "easy" way out at that level. It doesn't have to be that way. And yes, I have known more than my share of teachers (non-coaches) who were just going through the motions in the classroom. I haven't seen too many coaches just go through the motions on the field or court of their sport--I see a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, and effort!

[airitout]

BrahmaMom...It seems to me that an adequate coach is also an adequate teacher, a poor coach is a poor teacher. By the same token, an outstanding coach is usually an outstanding teacher. Most people are not selective about their work ethic. If they give their all to one thing, it usually carries over to all aspects of their life. In Bridgeport, I think we are blessed with outstanding teachers, coaches, men and women.

[Bell_06]

BrahmaMom:
Very few girls want to devote that much time to a sport. To those that do, they should be able to. I think there are schools that are known for girls collegiate athletics and that would be where the female athletes would go to play after high school, they seek out the schools with the better programs, anyway.BrahmaMom this was not directed towards me, but the I have to totally disagree with you when you state that very few girls are wanting to devote numerous college hours to sports. I spend countless hours at area softball fields, there are literally hundreds of girls sometimes well over a thousand at any one event. When ask what their goals are more then 90% will say to play collegiate sports. These numbers probably reflect each sports venue available to female athletes. These females are looking at schools from Division I to Community Colleges, they are actively seeking scholarships to enhance their education and personal growth. I did not take your posting as being negative towards the female athletes I felt that you like so many other are underestimating their goals.

[Old Cardinal]

To Bell 06: I agree with you, there is a whole new class of girl athletes growing up today..I see girls start at 8 and 9 years of age that start to develop that "muscle memory" to master and finally conquer the college level pitching techniques. These girls pitch 3 times per week at least 150 balls, come cold or heat. They also play other sports and are cheerleaders. How they make good grades is beyond me.....I can't wait to see some girl standout to be allowed to pitch a easily-torqued hardball to the boys in a baseball game. Girls like M. Collins, Bobbit(Vidor), Blythe(Mid-County), Brandy C., H. Tankersley-would be the leading pitchers on the HS baseball team! Bio-dynamics(more specifically body-mechanics), is a strange discipline, but those that truly master it, in softball, have spent a great amount of solid dedication. These new dedicated girls can handle college level discipline because they have already built great sports-training habits since early childhood.

<small>[ December 25, 2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[Bell_06]

Old Cardinal, I'm glad we agree... I will once again state that I think the girls do a better job overall with academics in part because they and their parents realize that there are no multi-million dollar dream contracts at the end of the rainbow. Keeping both feet firmly on the ground allows the females to use the sports programs as a tool. When you look over the women representing the USA in olympic softball you would have seen scholars. As most know, one of the two-time gold metalist in softball is not only in the softball hall of fame based on ability, but she is also a orthopedic surgeon. These are the guiding forces our girls are looking toward. Working hard is not an issue for our girls today, they realize that without excellent work ethics in the classroom and on the field the competition will overpower them. When college recruiters are looking at females for their programs they are looking just as strongly at their SAT scores. Another factor that comes into play is the fact that unlike "football" scholarships rarely come into play while playing on high school teams. Most softball, volleyball, soccer, and basketball players participate in tournament teams geared toward college exposure. Kids playing football receive most of their exposure while participating in an event fully funded by the school. So that 20+ hours weekly... most are exceeding those numbers already.

[Bell_06]

Hey Old Cardinal... a few years ago my daughter was asked to fill in on a boys baseball team one evening. Not as a pitcher but as an outfielder.. when she showed up all the boys said to her was "You have to chew gum and blow bubbles,and none of those stupid cheers the girls do."

[Old Cardinal]

To Bell_06: It was interesting what you said about Olympic Women. Krista Williams, Olympic Gold Metalist Pitcher came down with the Shortstop and put on a clinic for the young Beaumont Blast 10 & U. Her Uncle was the Blast Coach. I could see a remarkble improvement in the girls. They are all around 13 years of age now. I think that a prime figure that started out pitching for Pasadena Dobie and ended up an Olypian can really inspire young people. I saw Krista sitting behind the plate up in the stands for a lot of the 18 & U National AFA in Beaumont this summer. She seemed to be enjoying watching the aspiring young Pitchers show their hard-earned skills.