Andy Rooney's "Did You Know?"

[STANG RED]

DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view . it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW? As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW? As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit,
a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW? There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington , D.C.

DID YOU KNOW? James Madison, the fourth president, known as 'The Father of Our Constitution' made the following statement:

'We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.'

DID YOU KNOW? Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:

'It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ'.

DID YOU KNOW? Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

DID YOU KNOW? Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

DID YOU KNOW? Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law . an oligarchy, the rule of few over many.

DID YOU KNOW? The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: 'Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers.'

How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or 'In God We Trust' on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the other 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

[Pick6]

Good post Stang Red :clap: :clap:

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Pick6
Good post Stang Red :clap: :clap:

Thanks! But I'm just passing on the wisdom from a wise old man we could all probably learn a few things from.;)

[DDBooger]

Lots of wise men here too...

Quotes by Famous American Leaders

George Washington"Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." George Washington, Letter, United Baptist Chamber of Virginia May 1789

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion." 1797 the treaty of Tripoli, signed by President Washington, and approved by the Senate of the United States

Thomas Jefferson" ... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should `make no law respecting establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and state." Thomas Jefferson, Letter, Danbury Baptist Assn. January 1, 1802

"Almighty God hath created the mind free; all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments of burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in His almighty power to do." Thomas Jefferson, Acts for Establishing Religious Freedom in Virginia, 1785.

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, disciplines or exercises." Jefferson's Letter to Rev. Mr. Millar, Jan. 23,1808 (Words of Thomas Jefferson, Vol 5, pg 236.)

"I am tolerant of all creeds. Yet if any sect suffered itself to be used for political objects I would meet it by political opposition. In my view church and state should be separate, not only in form, but fact. Religion and politics should not be mingled." Millard Fillmore (1809-1865) 13th U.S. President (Millard Fillmore, address during the 1856 presidential election; from Albert Menendez and Edd Doerr, eds., Great Quotations on Religious Freedom, Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books, 2002, p. 70.)

Abraham Lincoln"Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in us. Our defense is in the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you whave planted the seeds of despotism at your own doors. Familiarize yourself with the chains of bondage, and you prepare your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genious of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tryant who rises among you." Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Edwardsville, IL, 1858.

"Thank God, under our Constitution there was no connection between Church and State, and that in my action as President of the United States I recognized no distinction of creeds in my appointments office." James K. Polk

U.S. Grant"Declare church and state forever separate and distinct; but each free within their proper spheres." Ulysses S. Grant, Seventh annual message, Congress December 7, 1875

"Let us labor for the security of free thought, free speech, pure morals, unfettered religious sentiments, and equal rights and privileges for all men, irrespective of nationality, color, or religion;.... leave the matter of religious teaching to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contribution. Keep church and state forever separate." Ulysses S. Grant's Speech to G. A. R. Veterans, at Des Moines, IA 1875.

"When religion is good, it will take care of itself. When it is not able to take care of itself, and God does not see fit to take care of it, so that it has to appeal to the civil power for support, it is evidence to my mind that its cause is a bad one." Benjamin Franklin, Statesman, Inventor, Author, Letter to Dr. Price.

"I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this county in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government." Andrew Jackson, Statement refusing to proclaim a national day of fasting and prayer.

James Madison"there is not a shadow of right on the general goverment to intermeddle with religion. Its least interference with it would be a most flagrant usurpation. I can appeal to my uniform conduct on this subject tha I have warmly supported religious freedom." James Madison - father of the Constitution

"Next in importance to freedom and justice is popular education, without which neither justice nor freedom can be permanently maintained. Its interests are intrusted to the States and the voluntary action of the people. Whatever help the nation can justly afford should be generously given to aid the States in supporting common schools; but it would be unjust to our people and dangerous to our institutions to apply any portion of the revenues of the nation or of the States to the support of sectarian schools. The separation of Church and State in everything relating to taxation should be absolute." James A. Garfield, Letter of Acceptance of Nomination for the Presidency July 12, 1880

Theodore Roosevelt"I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be non-sectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools." Theodore Roosevelt, Address, New York, October 12, 1915

"Discrimination against the holder of one faith means retaliatory discrimination against men of other faiths. The inevitable result of entering upon such a practise would be an abandonment of our real freedom of conscience and a reversion to the dreadful conditions of religious dissensions which in so many lands have proved fatal to true liberty, to true religion, and to all advance in civilization."

"To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against the liberty of conscience, which is one of the foundations of American life." - Roosevelt's letter on religious liberty.

"I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source -- no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials -- and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all." John F. Kennedy

"As I say, not all of Jefferson's ideas were popular, though most of them were absolutely right.…He was also called an atheist because he didn't believe in a state church, an official church of the government, and in fact made it clear that he didn't much like any church at all, though he did admire many, though not all, of the teachings of religion.…And you'll recall that it was Jefferson, as governor of Virginia, who wrote the Statute of Religious Liberty in 1786, which said that ‘no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship’ but that all people ‘shall be free to profess…their opinion in matters of religion.’ He summed up very bluntly one time his view that no man harmed anyone else in choosing and practicing his own religion, or no religion. ‘It does me no injury,’ he said, ‘for my neighbor to say that there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’" Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) 33rd U.S. President

"Let it be henceforth proclaimed to the world that man's conscience was created free; that he is no longer accountable to his fellow man for his religious opinions, being responsible therefore only to his God." -- John Tyler, Caroline Thomas Harnsberger, Treasury of Presidential Quotations (1964) p. 38, from Albert J. Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

"Last year I was on Pat Robertson's show, and we discussed our basic Christian faith - for instance, separation of church and state. It's contrary to my beliefs to try to exalt Christianity as having some sort of preferential status in the United States. That violates the Constitution. I'm not in favor of mandatory prayer in school or of using public funds to finance religious education." Jimmy Carter, Christianity Today, March 2, 1998

Other Important Quotes

William Jennings Bryan"If God himself was not willing to use coercion to force man to accept certain religious views, man, uninspired and liable to error, ought not to use the means that Jehovah would not employ." W. J. Bryan, in introduction to "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson."

"Total separation of church and state was considered the best safeguard for the health of each. As [Andrew] Jackson explained, in refusing to name a fast day, he feared to ‘disturb the security which religion now enjoys in this country, in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government.’" Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (Pulitzer Prize Winner) (Arthur M. Schlesinger, The Age of Jackson, Boston: Little Brown & Company, 1945, p. 354. )

"I am ashamed of some christians because they have so much dependence on Parliment and the law of the land. Much good may Parliment ever do to true religion except by mistake! As to getting the law of the land to touch our religion, we earnestly cry, `Hands off! Leave us alone.' Your Sunday bills and all other forms of the act-of-Parliment religion seem to me to be all wrong. Give us a fair field and no favor, and our faith has no cause to fear. Christ wants no help from Caesar." Charles H. Spurgeon, Church in Politics by Charles Longacre.

"Condemn no man for not thinking as you think. Let every one enjoy the full and free liberty of thinking for himself. Let every man use his own judgment, since every man must give an account of himself to God. Abhor every approach, in any kind or degree, to the spirit of persecution, if you cannot reason nor persuade a man into the truth, never attempt to force a man into it. If love will not compel him to come, leave him to God, the judge of all." John Wesley, Founder of the Methodist Church Church in Politics by Charles Longacre.

Patrick Henry"Religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free excercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience... unpunished and unrestrained by the magistrate." Tyler's "Patrick Henry," pages 183-184

"There is not a precept in the New Testament to compel, by civil law, any man who is not a Christian to pay any regard to the Lord's day, more than to any other day, and is without the authority of the christian religion. The gospel commands no duty which can be performed without faith in God. `Whatsoever is not of faith is sin' but to compel men destitute of faith to observe any Christian institution, such as the Lord's day, is commanding a duty to be performed without faith in God. Therefore, to command unbelievers, or natural men, to observe in any sense the Lord's day, is antievangelical, or contrary to the gospel." Alexander Campbell, Founder of Disciples of Christ Church Memoirs, Vol 1, pg 528.

Declaration of Independence
In that grand old document which our forefathers set forth as their bill of rights—the Declaration of Independence—they declared:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

The United Stated Constitution
The Constitution guarantees, in the most explicit terms, the inviolability of conscience.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

“The framers of the Constitution recognized the eternal principle that man’s relation with his God is above human legislation, and his rights of conscience inalienable. . . It is an inborn principle which nothing can eradicate” (Congressional documents {U.S.A.}, serial No. 200, document No. 271).

[Pick6]

Not a very good post DD :D

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
Not a very good post DD :D well it won't be popular with 86% of the people lmao ;)

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
well it won't be popular with 86% of the people lmao ;)

These quotes only confirm the principle of separation of church and state. They do not take anything away from the fact that this country was founded on christian principles. The church and state concept has to do with the church staying out of legislative/policy decisions. This goes back, in part, to the involvement by the Church of England in public policy. The founders did not want church involvement in this area. Thus, the separation of church and state. Your quotes support this concept and the quotes provided by Andy Rooney. The only one that I find out of context is Jimmy Carter's but a complete lack of understanding is expected from him.

[Txbroadcaster]

Hey DD

the problem with using Jefferson quotes when it comes to seperation of church and state was he meant it more torwards Government NOT interferring with churches and their buisness and not about putting religious things on Government building or really even religious overtones in our Government

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Hey DD

the problem with using Jefferson quotes when it comes to seperation of church and state was he meant it more torwards Government NOT interferring with churches and their buisness and not about putting religious things on Government building or really even religious overtones in our Government yet the guy had no afinity for religion and found it to be full of hocus pocus that muddied up the message, the man literally tried to rewrite his own bible


Originally posted by BleedOrange
These quotes only confirm the principle of separation of church and state. They do not take anything away from the fact that this country was founded on christian principles. The church and state concept has to do with the church staying out of legislative/policy decisions. This goes back, in part, to the involvement by the Church of England in public policy. The founders did not want church involvement in this area. Thus, the separation of church and state. Your quotes support this concept and the quotes provided by Andy Rooney. The only one that I find out of context is Jimmy Carter's but a complete lack of understanding is expected from him. Not at all, in fact the 1st set of quotes are being used to justify what YOU consider the American ideal to be, CHRISTIANITY. Religion and god are not one in the same, and as much a tool for social control as govt itself, hence the separation of two dueling forces. The forefathers use of the word God and Creator were taken to mean that what a person found as their religious or spiritual ethos they should feel free to practice outside of govt interference. Remember, people didn't flee Europe for religious persecution cause they were religious, but simply because their religion didn't mesh with the STATE sponsored religion. The idea that the 10 commandments represents Christianity is not true. In fact they are old testament, so truth be told you can make the justification that we were founded on Judaic symbolism by nature of the 10 commandments. All the imagery employed by the forefathers borrowed from Greek, Egyptian and other great civilizations as well. Should we suggest that on that basis we should adjust our govt to those practices 1,000 of years ago? Hell many of the forefathers were considered heretics for their use of the word "Creator" and "grand architect" (masons). Benjamin Franklin was damn scientist for crying out loud and hardly a fundamentalist Christian. I just don't see any justification for CHRISTIANITY to be a guiding force in government any more than any other religion that it borrows from or that preaches some form of morality(which religion has shown very little on the grand scale globally).

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yet the guy had no afinity for religion and found it to be full of hocus pocus that muddied up the message, the man literally tried to rewrite his own bible

Not at all, in fact the 1st set of quotes are being used to justify what YOU consider the American ideal to be, CHRISTIANITY. Religion and god are not one in the same, and as much a tool for social control as govt itself, hence the separation of two dueling forces. The forefathers use of the word God and Creator were taken to mean that what a person found as their religious or spiritual ethos they should feel free to practice outside of govt interference. Remember, people didn't flee Europe for religious persecution cause they were religious, but simply because their religion didn't mesh with the STATE sponsored religion. The idea that the 10 commandments represents Christianity is not true. In fact they are old testament, so truth be told you can make the justification that we were founded on Judaic symbolism by nature of the 10 commandments. All the imagery employed by the forefathers borrowed from Greek, Egyptian and other great civilizations as well. Should we suggest that on that basis we should adjust our govt to those practices 1,000 of years ago? Hell many of the forefathers were considered heretics for their use of the word "Creator" and "grand architect" (masons). Benjamin Franklin was damn scientist for crying out loud and hardly a fundamentalist Christian. I just don't see any justification for CHRISTIANITY to be a guiding force in government any more than any other religion that it borrows from or that preaches some form of morality(which religion has shown very little on the grand scale globally).

DD good luck gettin off. The founders were mostly Christian and left england and europe to practice their religion without intereference. Nothing changes that. And that is the influence of the christian fathers that they intended to represent and present.
Inalienable rights by the creator is pretty specific.
And to the 10 commandments, many christians still see them as commands to be followed and most did in the day of our forefathers. IN Christian history the old testament laws were still followed because of the average need for rules of the average follower. Grace was not taught.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
DD good luck gettin off. The founders were mostly Christian and left england and europe to practice their religion without intereference. Nothing changes that. And that is the influence of the christian fathers that they intended to represent and present.
Inalienable rights by the creator is pretty specific.
NO not true at all, the Founders (as in settlers) and Founders (as in authors of the constitution are not the same people AT ALL!!!)

The writers and authors of the Constitution never ONCE mentioned GOD, something too TOO BIG to simply forget to do. Nor did the Federalist papers advocate Christianity or any other religion when they used God to mean "all knowing" or simply the UNKNOWN equation of the creator, what ever that was. The authors and those who inspired them (Thomas Paine) in many many essays expressed dissatisfaction with Religion and Christianity. Jefferson was even chastised for entertaining Sir Thomas Paine because of his "blasphemies"

most of these men were intellectuals and neo-liberals of their time, they sought to break free from the tyranny (of which religion was one). By separating them they allowed for those of faith to do as they please without having a competing set of principles to interject based on man's interpretation of what GOD's will is.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
DD good luck gettin off. The founders were mostly Christian and left england and europe to practice their religion without intereference. Nothing changes that. And that is the influence of the christian fathers that they intended to represent and present.
Inalienable rights by the creator is pretty specific.

Would a christian government interfere with the opportunity for other non-christians to practice their religion freely?

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Would a christian government interfere with the opportunity for other non-christians to practice their religion freely?

It would if "practicing" meant flying jetliners into buildings full of innocent people.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
It would if "practicing" meant flying jetliners into buildings full of innocent people.
would it stop preemptive invasions of nations and suggest that they were soldiers of God and doing his "will"

Much to the point of interpreting it as we see fit! God's will that is.

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
would it stop preemptive invasions of nations and suggest that they were soldiers of God and doing his "will"

Much to the point of interpreting it as we see fit! God's will that is.

I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask Abraham Lincoln

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask Abraham Lincoln Confederates fired the first shot! :p LOL

wow, we're headed on a tangent! haha

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Confederates fired the first shot! :p LOL

wow, we're headed on a tangent! haha

ah, como te gusta :tisk: :D

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by pirate4state
ah, como te gusta :tisk: :D
QUIET!!! OUR NATION WASN'T FOUNDED ON MEXICAN! YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Confederates fired the first shot! :p LOL

wow, we're headed on a tangent! haha

A cold beer says I can get this thread locked before Supper.:D

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by DDBooger
NO not true at all, the Founders (as in settlers) and Founders (as in authors of the constitution are not the same people AT ALL!!!)

The writers and authors of the Constitution never ONCE mentioned GOD, something too TOO BIG to simply forget to do. Nor did the Federalist papers advocate Christianity or any other religion when they used God to mean "all knowing" or simply the UNKNOWN equation of the creator, what ever that was. The authors and those who inspired them (Thomas Paine) in many many essays expressed dissatisfaction with Religion and Christianity. Jefferson was even chastised for entertaining Sir Thomas Paine because of his "blasphemies"

most of these men were intellectuals and neo-liberals of their time, they sought to break free from the tyranny (of which religion was one). By separating them they allowed for those of faith to do as they please without having a competing set of principles to interject based on man's interpretation of what GOD's will is.

The intent was for freedom of religion and that was why it was worded thusly. It does not change their perspective however.
And it does not mean that they looked into the future that we have today and wanted only christian leadership. But at the time that was simple fact as the majority of the leaders were christian in some form or another. Thus they had christian leadership by default. But do not confuse that with by design.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by DDBooger
QUIET!!! OUR NATION WASN'T FOUNDED ON MEXICAN! YOU SPEAK ENGLISH! Lucy you talk to them, I don't speak Mexican.

I NOT A MEXICAN!

:D

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Lucy you talk to them, I don't speak Mexican.

I NOT A MEXICAN!

:D

Rita,

How do you like my new sig?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
The intent was for freedom of religion and that was why it was worded thusly. It does not change their perspective however.
And it does not mean that they looked into the future that we have today and wanted only christian leadership. But at the time that was simple fact as the majority of the leaders were christian in some form or another. Thus they had christian leadership by default. But do not confuse that with by design.
Again, do some diggin and look at their correspondence on the topic the particular authors of what so many people hold dear are hardly PRACTICING christians. In fact, their best critique of it was it's use as a moral and social barometer to control masses by law, which the 10 commandments symbolize, a LEGAL writ or system in place to govern. Yet they saw in their wisdom that lessons from it could be take to form a better system, one absent of dogmatic chastity.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Rita,

How do you like my new sig?

Did you just cuss me?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
A cold beer says I can get this thread locked before Supper.:D Make it a "SAM ADAMS" LOL

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Again, do some diggin and look at their correspondence on the topic the particular authors of what so many people hold dear are hardly PRACTICING christians. In fact, their best critique of it was it's use as a moral and social barometer to control masses by law, which the 10 commandments symbolize, a LEGAL writ or system in place to govern. Yet they saw in their wisdom that lessons from it could be take to form a better system, one absent of dogmatic chastity.

I have done the digging. The guys that wrote the most were then ones least christian. There were 9 or 10 masons that signed the declaration and there was a profound christian influence. And as you said even those that were not practising christians believed in it enough to base their legal system on it.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I have done the digging. The guys that wrote the most were then ones least christian. There were 9 or 10 masons that signed the declaration and there was a profound christian influence. And as you said even those that were not practising christians believed in it enough to base their legal system on it. Never the less, association only as far as the public needed to see for acceptability and certainly, no other systemic creation by man has more rule then RELIGION. Using it's auspices to create governance is by no means advocating it as a guidance for our government. IT's symbolic nature is what they borrowed. I've done the diggin as well, and the authors, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin etc may have been influenced by Christianity but other practices were influences as well as MASON ritual shows and other phallic (Egyptian) symbolism that dot this nation and our currency. Fact of the matter is, they used "Creator" ON PURPOSE and their meaning as supposed to contemporary are not the same

[PPHSfan]

"Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark."

Prot

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Never the less, association only as far as the public needed to see for acceptability and certainly, no other systemic creation by man has more rule then RELIGION. Using it's auspices to create governance is by no means advocating it as a guidance for our government. IT's symbolic nature is what they borrowed. I've done the diggin as well, and the authors, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin etc may have been influenced by Christianity but other practices were influences as well as MASON ritual shows and other phallic (Egyptian) symbolism that dot this nation and our currency. Fact of the matter is, they used "Creator" ON PURPOSE and their meaning as supposed to contemporary are not the same

Creator has only one meaning supreme being, and in their lexicon there was only God. Do not be confused by the fact that they meant to keep it free from God as a governing influence. That is true. But they said Creator meaning a monotheistic supreme being. Not creators. Jefferson Hamilton Franlkin were the libs.
Washington and others were the conservatives. It was an interesting and lively debate then as now.

[BreckTxLonghorn]

"Hi I'm Andy Rooney.


I do segments on 60 minutes where I talk about how confusing computers are, and how it's a smart idea to save coffee grounds in your shoes. I once wondered out loud about the nutritional value of feces. I'm bat**** crazy.


Or I'm old. One of the other. "


Nothing personal against the guy and/or what he did/did not say. I just find him absolutely hilarious because he's letting his slow crawl toward senility play out on live tv. Awesome.

[PPHSfan]

What is senility regression?:eek:

[BreckTxLonghorn]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
What is senility regression?:eek:

yeah, that sounded better in my head. Fixed.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Creator has only one meaning supreme being, and in their lexicon there was only God. Which begs the question if they meant GOD why not use the word ;)



Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Do not be confused by the fact that they meant to keep it free from God as a governing influence. That is true. But they said Creator meaning a monotheistic supreme being. I agree, but many in correspondence admitted they did not know what the "CREATOR" was some were naturalists, unitarian, agnostic, athiest. Science was still young and search for explanation and meaning were being explored.


Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Jefferson Hamilton Franlkin were the libs.
Washington and others were the conservatives. Even Washington wasn't much of a religious advocator. In his speeches he used secular language to describe god "Great Author" "Almighty Being" and in his death bed did not have a minister or preacher there but actually checked his own pulse prior to submitting to death.


Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
It was an interesting and lively debate then as now. ABSOLUTELY!!! philosophizing existentialism often draws so much emotion.

[Farmersfan]

I find it difficult to accept the idea that 86% of Americans actually believe in God in the first place. The margin of error in this poll is extreme. If you consider most people have been taught since birth that to not proclaim believe in God is a death sentence both socially and spritually there is small wonder so many will default to belief. I would say as many as 50% of those proclaiming belief in this county never practice any religious exercise or have any conscience support of the ideas expressed in religion. It is far easier to simply fake belief and not be bothered by the harshness of judgement from true believers!

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I find it difficult to accept the idea that 86% of Americans actually believe in God in the first place. The margin of error in this poll is extreme. If you consider most people have been taught since birth that to not proclaim believe in God is a death sentence both socially and spritually there is small wonder so many will default to belief. I would say as many as 50% of those proclaiming belief in this county never practice any religious exercise or have any conscience support of the ideas expressed in religion. It is far easier to simply fake belief and not be bothered by the harshness of judgement from true believers!

I believe in God whole heartedly, and have great love for him. But I cant say I have a lot of respect for most organized religions I see out there. The hypocrisy and "harshness of judgment from true believers" is the main reason I no longer attend church regularly. But that doesn’t affect my love for, or my worship of God. And I know many other believers that feel the same way.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I believe in God whole heartedly, and have great love for him. But I cant say I have a lot of respect for most organized religions I see out there. The hypocrisy and "harshness of judgment from true believers" is the main reason I no longer attend church regularly. But that doesn’t affect my love for, or my worship of God. And I know many other believers that feel the same way.

AMEN!!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I believe in God whole heartedly, and have great love for him. But I cant say I have a lot of respect for most organized religions I see out there. The hypocrisy and "harshness of judgment from true believers" is the main reason I no longer attend church regularly. But that doesn’t affect my love for, or my worship of God. And I know many other believers that feel the same way.
I'm agnostic but that is very well put!
:clap:

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I believe in God whole heartedly, and have great love for him. But I cant say I have a lot of respect for most organized religions I see out there. The hypocrisy and "harshness of judgment from true believers" is the main reason I no longer attend church regularly. But that doesn’t affect my love for, or my worship of God. And I know many other believers that feel the same way.




That makes a lot of sense Stang Red! I would bet a lot of people would reflect those exact sentiments. Well said!

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I'm agnostic but that is very well put!
:clap:


Your agnostic?? Wow thats a surprise. I guess it explains your interesting interpretation of history and our founding.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Your agnostic?? Wow thats a surprise. I guess it explains your interesting interpretation of history and our founding. and once again a personal snipe all to well explaining you! ;)

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by rockdale80
AMEN!!

+1

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Your agnostic?? Wow thats a surprise. I guess it explains your interesting interpretation of history and our founding.



I respect the Agnostic! At least they are open to possibilities. Unlike the Atheist or the Christian.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
and once again a personal snipe all to well explaining you! ;)

No personal snipe just an observation. Your interpretations are flawed at best. Being agnostic, helps explain those creative interpretations. Sorry if you took it so personal.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by rockdale80
AMEN!!

Hey we agree on something!!!:)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
No personal snipe just an observation. Your interpretations are flawed at best. Being agnostic, helps explain those creative interpretations. Sorry if you took it so personal. Yet instinctually you attack my personal view rather than debate what I presented as Billy did! Good job. :clap:

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yet instinctually you attack my personal view rather than debate what I presented as Billy did! Good job. :clap:


I have not attacked you. But I do recall in one of our earlier exchanges you were the one who resorted to the personal attacks. Disagreement and observation on my end do not equate to personal attack. I will continue to note your flawed reasoning and/or interpretations. If that is a personal attack then I guess I am guilty. We cleary have different philosophical perspectives which is fine. Just don't take it personal when we disagree.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
I have not attacked you. But I do recall in one of our earlier exchanges you were the one who resorted to the personal attacks. Disagreement and observation on my end do not equate to personal attack. I will continue to note your flawed reasoning and/or interpretations. If that is a personal attack then I guess I am guilty. We cleary have different philosophical perspectives which is fine. Just don't take it personal when we disagree. Yes it's funny those who disagree vociferously with me always remember me as the agitant. Disagreement with substance is one thing, to simply state you disagree proves nothing. And if you suggest being agnostic influences how I view history, well, let's just say no more than Christianity effects yours! Yet I don't see myself as reaching to conclusions and pretty clearly layed out my reasoning, they just don't align themselves to Christian revisionism.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yes it's funny those who disagree vociferously with me always remember me as the agitant. Disagreement with substance is one thing, to simply state it proves nothing. And if you suggest being agnostic influences how I view history, well, let's just say no more than Christianity effects yours! Yet I don't see myself as reaching to conclusions and pretty clearly layed out my reasoning, they just don't align themselves to Christian revisionism.

Christianity has no effect on my personal view of our founding. Again, its interpretation and I would suggest that if researched fully you will find Christianity was instrumental in our founding and in the preparation of the documents our representative republic was founded on. Of course you can find bits of information that can seem contrary but they will be much smaller number than those in support of my premise.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Christianity has no effect on my personal view of our founding. Again, its interpretation and I would suggest that if researched fully you will find Christianity was instrumental in our founding and in the preparation of the documents our representative republic was founded on. Of course you can find bits of information that can seem contrary but they will be much smaller number than those in support of my premise. So say you, yet I feel absolutely the same. I didn't deny the use of it as a frame, but content analysis of their correspndence says otherwise, much of the interpretation today is falsely used being how we extrapolate it is based on contemporary uses of words.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
So say you, yet I feel absolutely the same. I didn't deny the use of it as a frame, but content analysis of their correspndence says otherwise, much of the interpretation today is falsely used being how we extrapolate it is based on contemporary uses of words.

Despite all the banter I respect your opinion. That being said, we will just have to disagree the intent and interpretation of the founders writings.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Despite all the banter I respect your opinion. That being said, we will just have to disagree the intent and interpretation of the founders writings. No problem man :) isn't disagreement just more fun? We get to stretch the grey matter up there! ;)

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by DDBooger
No problem man :) isn't disagreement just more fun? We get to stretch the grey matter up there! ;)

Absolutely! Its always interesting to hear the other side when its well thought out.

[lulu]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Absolutely! Its always interesting to hear the other side when its well thought out.

You guys are "something else". I love it when you two go at it.

Keeps things interesting until football gets going.

[SintonFan]

I am curious...
Where in the Constitution, interpretation of such or errata(or somewhere important that is unbiased) is the words,
"Separation of Church and State" ?
http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-011.gif

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by SintonFan
I am curious...
Where in the Constitution, interpretation of such or errata(or somewhere important that is unbiased) is the words,
"Separation of Church and State" ?
http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-011.gif

Its not verbatum. The interpretation was derived from the first amendment.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Its not verbatum. The interpretation was derived from the first amendment.
.
So the words:
"Separation of Church and State" never appear in any Founding Fathers' documents?
.
Keep in mind, I agree with the premise of the government NOT choosing an official religion; but the removal of any and all of the Founding Fathers' religion seems like it favors modern day religions like atheism and environmentalism. "Man" with those modern day religions supplement GOD.