Obama supporters explain this....

[BEAST]

What does it say when even his democrats refuse to vote on the health bill. Obama does not need a single Republican vote. If all the Dems voted as he wanted, it would pass.


Disclaimer..... I am not trying to start a great big pissing match. Just asking a question.




BEAST

[pirate4state]

LOL JM&J

[BILLYFRED0000]

That means that some dems can do the math. We cannot pay for what we got. How do we add another trillion or two? We cannot pay for what obama slama wants to do. He wants to win. For himself. I want to win for this country. Do Not spend those trillions that my grandchildren already do not have.

[Farmersfan]

Everyone is starting to realize he is a mental midget and thinks he is playing with monopoly money. But that's just my opinion!

[waterboy]

I agree. The math just doesn't add up. This would be a major burden on small business owners, as well as the average American worker, not to mention, that the quality of health care would decline substantially. I'm glad they are finally getting to actually READ all of this bill before it actually gets voted on.

[injuredinmelee]

everyone made fun of Bush for his communication skills and assumed he wasnt intelligent as his communication skills were not that great but I cant see how Obabms /comunication skills are any better. Listening to his slow deliberate "answers" last night was driving me nuts. Rush Limbaugh sped the responses up on his show today and it was at a normal humans pace. Funny too.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
everyone made fun of Bush for his communication skills and assumed he wasnt intelligent as his communication skills were not that great but I cant see how Obabms /comunication skills are any better. Listening to his slow deliberate "answers" last night was driving me nuts. Rush Limbaugh sped the responses up on his show today and it was at a normal humans pace. Funny too.

Yeah, it sounded a little like sucking helium.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
everyone made fun of Bush for his communication skills and assumed he wasnt intelligent as his communication skills were not that great but I cant see how Obabms /comunication skills are any better. Listening to his slow deliberate "answers" last night was driving me nuts. Rush Limbaugh sped the responses up on his show today and it was at a normal humans pace. Funny too.

Um..LOOk....uh..LOOK....LOOK....LOOK......um...um. ..um...LOOK....:clap:

[BuffyMars]

out of curiousity....how many of you are actually obama "supporters?"

definte obama supporter.

because in actuality....i "support" and "hope" for EVERY president.

do i support the politician in them? HELL NO.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BEAST
What does it say when even his democrats refuse to vote on the health bill. Obama does not need a single Republican vote. If all the Dems voted as he wanted, it would pass.


Disclaimer..... I am not trying to start a great big pissing match. Just asking a question.




BEAST

The same thing it said when a republican votes against a republican initiative.... Or has that not ever happened before? :rolleyes:

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Everyone is starting to realize he is a mental midget and thinks he is playing with monopoly money. But that's just my opinion!

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1479/rolllaughing.gif

Thats funny, I dont care who you are.....:clap:

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Eagle 1
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1479/rolllaughing.gif

Thats funny, I dont care who you are.....:clap:
+1 :clap:

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rockdale80
The same thing it said when a republican votes against a republican initiative.... Or has that not ever happened before? :rolleyes:


Nothing of this magnitude.




BEAST

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BEAST
Nothing of this magnitude.




BEAST

Contrarily...and who knows how they will vote.

[rancher]

The President is RIGHT, we do need health care reform. Been to the doctor or hospital lately. How about the cost of drugs. The fastest way to go broke and into the endless cycle of debt is because of a health problem. The reason it is being delayed is because the lobbiest for drug compaines, insurance companies and others are putting money like crazy into the pockets of those in Washington. We need the changes, those who are against have no clue and are only repeating what they are told on right wing radio.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/09/lobbyblog_n_228657.html

[Pick6]

Originally posted by rancher
The President is RIGHT, we do need health care reform. Been to the doctor or hospital lately. How about the cost of drugs. The fastest way to go broke and into the endless cycle of debt is because of a health problem. The reason it is being delayed is because the lobbiest for drug compaines, insurance companies and others are putting money like crazy into the pockets of those in Washington. We need the changes, those who are against have no clue and are only repeating what they are told on right wing radio.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/09/lobbyblog_n_228657.html

Ask a Veteran what he thinks about the VA Hospital. There's your Government Health care. Ask the soldier who went in for Gall Bladder surgery and had to have his legs amputated because the doctor messed up. He can't do nothing about it, the military doctors, as in government doctors, aren't held accountable for what they do. That sounds like like Great Government Health care.

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Everyone is starting to realize he is a mental midget and thinks he is playing with monopoly money. But that's just my opinion!

:clap: :clap: :clap: well played sir...well played.

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
out of curiousity....how many of you are actually obama "supporters?"



hello. *thump*thump* is this mic on? anyone?

[rancher]

Look at the VA Hospitals, they are always full. I can tell you the one in Houston, is very nice and runs very well. Medical malpractice occurs in all areas. Ask any doctor about malpractice insurance and how much they pay. Just like we have good and bad hospitals all over the country. Dont take one isolated example and make it gospel.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
hello. *thump*thump* is this mic on? anyone?

Just off the top I can think of 3 people on here that would be glad to be Obama's "supporter" :thinking:

[Pick6]

Originally posted by rancher
Look at the VA Hospitals, they are always full. I can tell you the one in Houston, is very nice and runs very well. Medical malpractice occurs in all areas. Ask any doctor about malpractice insurance and how much they pay. Just like we have good and bad hospitals all over the country. Dont take one isolated example and make it gospel.

Government Health Care providers don't have to have medical malpractice insurance. They are free from any neglect that happens do to their mistakes. Would you rather have a Dr that has to take responsibility for what he does or one that doesn't?

Talk to some Vets, there's tons of examples out there about how the VA's are ran.

[rancher]

I dont see the vets turning the care down and going to a private physician or using insurance to pay. Examples you cite are everywhere in private practice as well. You cited one not tons, I know many vets. who are treated in Houston, all compliment the health care they get. You say nothing about the cost of the drugs, and hospital stays for the average citizen. Or better yet why the drug companies, insurance companies and others who have a vested interested are spreading the love around in Washington to maintain the status quo. Remember we the citizens voted for change.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by rancher
Remember we the citizens voted for change.

Yes you did, and we're going to pay for the mistakes of many for that election, pay alot for it.

[rancher]

Ask the average citizen who works and pays for health insurance how much they pay for their family each pay period. That is what you are going to pay for it is called CORPORATE GREED.

[mustang04]

i dont really support any president...any candidate running for president is someone that the govt. sees fit to run our corrupt system...

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rancher
The President is RIGHT, we do need health care reform. Been to the doctor or hospital lately. How about the cost of drugs. The fastest way to go broke and into the endless cycle of debt is because of a health problem. The reason it is being delayed is because the lobbiest for drug compaines, insurance companies and others are putting money like crazy into the pockets of those in Washington. We need the changes, those who are against have no clue and are only repeating what they are told on right wing radio.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/09/lobbyblog_n_228657.html

I have no clue? First I am a business owner that knows the cost of providing health insurance to my work force. I chose to do it but will be
damned if I will be forced. Second, my wife will have brain surgery this year by specialist in
Dallas. She has to have a tumor removed. Thank
God it's not cancer. The surgery and treatment
and so on will likely top $500,000.00. What my
insurance company doesn't pay I will. Even if I
have to pay it out until I die. I will gladly do this
rather than use tax money my fellow Americans
have been screwed out of. Call me crazy.




BEAST

[Trashman]

Originally posted by rancher
Look at the VA Hospitals, they are always full. I can tell you the one in Houston, is very nice and runs very well. Medical malpractice occurs in all areas. Ask any doctor about malpractice insurance and how much they pay. Just like we have good and bad hospitals all over the country. Dont take one isolated example and make it gospel.

Okay.....here are two other shining examples of government run health care that suck........Medicare & Medicaid. Ask anybody that has either how much they like them. The only people in this country who have great health care and don't have to pay is congress.:tongue:

[rancher]

Once again I dont see anyone turning it down. In fact I hear several seasoned citizens saying they cannot wait to be eligible so they can have some much need care they have been putting off due to cost. If you are in a Hospital Tax District, take a look at you county tax bill and you will see you are already paying Hospital District Tax.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rancher
Once again I dont see anyone turning it down. In fact I hear several seasoned citizens saying they cannot wait to be eligible so they can have some much need care they have been putting off due to cost. If you are in a Hospital Tax District, take a look at you county tax bill and you will see you are already paying Hospital District Tax.


How is blowmama gonna fund this thing? He says by taxing the rich. That's fair huh? Just because someone makes alot of money doesn't mean they should foot yours or my bill. That kind of entitlement thinking drives me crazy. Besides, the rich line the pockets of the decision makers. The bill will fall to the middle class just like always. And to be honest, I'm not to excited about having 40-50% of my money stolen from me.




BEAST

[Trashman]

Originally posted by Rancher
I dont see the vets turning the care down and going to a private physician or using insurance to pay. Examples you cite are everywhere in private practice as well. You cited one not tons, I know many vets. who are treated in Houston, all compliment the health care they get. You say nothing about the cost of the drugs, and hospital stays for the average citizen. Or better yet why the drug companies, insurance companies and others who have a vested interested are spreading the love around in Washington to maintain the status quo. Remember we the citizens voted for change.

Guess again...my daughter picked up a bug, while in a hell hole of a country called Kurgistan. Her military doctors could not find out why her weight dropped from 130 to 95 pounds. They told her she was lucky to be able to lose weight and sent her on her way. She began vomiting and suffering from acid reflux disease. When she came home I took one look at her and knew I was watching my baby girl die. I loaded her up and took her to Abilene Regional Hospital. They gave her some strong antibiotics to kill the bug and then removed her gallbladder. Today (2 years later), she is married and weighs about 125 pounds. She will be headed to Iraq in September for a 6 month tour. :D

[TexMike]

So Rancher, how much of my money do you want me to give you or anyone else for your health care? How about a house? How much should I give you and others so you can buy a house?

I am a vet and my Dad is a retired vet. I have seen the system for active duty and retired folks. It smacks. People go there because they have no choice.

[mustang04]

Originally posted by TexMike


I am a vet and my Dad is a retired vet. I have seen the system for active duty and retired folks. It smacks. People go there because they have no choice.

our govt. is corrupt!!!!

[rancher]

I tip my hat to the vets who have fought to keep our way of life which includes the right to vote and the right to vote for change as we the people did in November year of our lord 2008. I am also a vet. with 23 years of honorable service in the U.S. Navy. I dont see the vets turning the care down. They have the option to get private insurance and going to any doctor or hospital they want or can pay for. However, just like our President is trying to tell everyone, HEALTH COST ARE OUT OF CONTROL BECAUSE OF CORPORATE GREED.

[TexMike]

You didn't tell me how much I should have to pay for you and others? What is the amount?

The vets who do not switch do not do so because they cannot afford to do so.

Health costs have soared because of several things:
1 - Medicine has developed technology and techniques that are very expensive and can treat injuries and disease that were untreatable before.
2 - People are living longer (partly because of #1)
3 - More and more people do not have the money to pay their medical bills so the costs get passed off to those of us who are the producers in the economy.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Pick6
Just off the top I can think of 3 people on here that would be glad to be Obama's "supporter" :thinking:

From reading someone's posts on this thread you can make that 4 who would love to be Obama's "supporter".

[pirate4state]

ugh

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by TexMike
You didn't tell me how much I should have to pay for you and others? What is the amount?

The vets who do not switch do not do so because they cannot afford to do so.

Health costs have soared because of several things:
1 - Medicine has developed technology and techniques that are very expensive and can treat injuries and disease that were untreatable before.
2 - People are living longer (partly because of #1)
3 - More and more people do not have the money to pay their medical bills so the costs get passed off to those of us who are the producers in the economy.

# 4 malpractice insurance?

[rancher]

The President and those in congress will determine who will pay and how much if any at all. The plan will come about from health care savings and will be revenue netural. Again, some are listening to much to right wing radio and are sounding like talking parrots. This is all being brought about and pay for by Drug Companies, Insurance Companies and others with a vested interest who want the status quo maintained. CORPORATE GREED. It is very funny the AMA is on board with the plan.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/health-system-reform.shtml

[TexMike]

"revenue neutral"

Remind me agaian, who is listening to who?

How are you going to give 50,000,000 people something and it not cost anything??????????????

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by rancher
The President and those in congress will determine who will pay and how much if any at all. The plan will come about from health care savings and will be revenue netural. Again, some are listening to much to right wing radio and are sounding like talking parrots. This is all being brought about and pay for by Drug Companies, Insurance Companies and others with a vested interest who want the status quo maintained. CORPORATE GREED. It is very funny the AMA is on board with the plan.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/health-system-reform.shtml
Im all for listening to both sides of the story but "heath care savings" comes from somewhere. Since government monies are earned from the taxpayers of this country, that heath care savings is coming from you and I. Where money comes from in government policies are all smoke and mirrors. They divert your attention claiming the money is coming from account a, b, c, or d etc... but in the end, if they are not raising taxes to get the money to pay for it, they are taking money away from another program OR just spending what is not there in order to pay for it.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
...the right to vote for change as we the people did in November year of our lord 2008. You are correct in that people voted for change. The problem is that most people had no idea what kind of change they were voting for.

I voted for Bush in 2004. Does that mean that I agreed with every decision he made? Of course not. Just because someone voted for "change" doesn't mean they wanted to change everything.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by pirate4state
ugh Then don't read.:)

[rancher]

You need to realize that everyone has coverage now. If you are injuried and need attention, the hospital cannot deny to treat you regardless of your ability to pay. It is already being paid for, if you live in a county that has a Hospital District, you are being charged a Hospital District Tax. The state is taxing you for the CHIP program. Health cost must be brought in line and the President has a plan to do it.

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by rancher
You need to realize that everyone has coverage now. If you are injuried and need attention, the hospital cannot deny to treat you regardless of your ability to pay. It is already being paid for, if you live in a county that has a Hospital District, you are being charged a Hospital District Tax. The state is taxing you for the CHIP program. Health cost must be brought in line and the President has a plan to do it.
The presidents plan cost ALOT of money, money that we as a country do not have. Generations to come will be riding huge deficits to pay for this. Right now, county hospitals MUST treat you by law, insurance or no insurance, we as tax payers pay out the nose for that right now, if this plan passes, that burden will quadrouple. I agree that legislation or some type of goverment intervention may be what heath care needs, just not in this capacity.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
You need to realize that everyone has coverage now. If you are injuried and need attention, the hospital cannot deny to treat you regardless of your ability to pay. It is already being paid for, if you live in a county that has a Hospital District, you are being charged a Hospital District Tax. The state is taxing you for the CHIP program. Health cost must be brought in line and the President has a plan to do it. Do you honestly think that Obama's plan will remove these taxes?

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by Gsquared
The presidents plan cost ALOT of money, money that we as a country do not have. Generations to come will be riding huge deficits for this to be paid for. Right now, county hospitals MUST treat you by law, insurance or no insurance, we as tax payers pay out the nose for that right now, if this plan passes, that burden will quadrouple. I agree that legislation or some type of goverment intervention may be what heath care needs, just not in this capacity.

[jason]

i do all the right things...
pay my bills on time, put away money for retirement....

and im still waiting on my bailout stimulus check like the people who ran their companys into the ground got...

maybe i could get a yearly bonus too......

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by TexMike
So Rancher, how much of my money do you want me to give you or anyone else for your health care? How about a house? How much should I give you and others so you can buy a house?
Still waiting...

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Then don't read.:)

It's a sickness. Much like yall beating this $h!t into the ground.

Have fun. I'm gonna go read a book. :nerd:

[TexMike]

May I recommend: http://www.catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&pid=1441272

[rancher]

You and I both know that when a tax is passed, it never goes away. However as you said, We Must Have Health Care Reform. There has always been a deficit of some sort, yet this country keeps going and remains strong and free. If you look, the republican party has never seen a deficit they dislike from Regan forward. It was under Bill Clinton when the deficit was going down that was ran up by Regan and Bush.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
It was under Bill Clinton when the deficit was going down that was ran up by Regan and Bush. Yep. After the Hillarycare scare the republicans swept into office and formed the infamous "Contract with America" that balanced the budget.

You're welcome.

As far as Regan went, we were fighting the cold war. Once again you are welcome that you're not speaking Russian.:)

[BEAST]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Still waiting...

You will be waiting a while. Entitlement. They can't explain it. They just think they deserve it.

Wake up call folks. NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. This is a bitch of a world. DEAL WITH IT. Good greif. Insurance is NOT a right. If you want it work for it. If your job doesn't offer it, find a new one. If there's nothing available in your town, MOVE!! We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you are not happy cuz you don't have insurance, pursue it. Quit being a lazy drag on society and go get it.




BEAST

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
There has always been a deficit of some sort, yet this country keeps going and remains strong and free. But Obama's deficit will surpass all others combined if he gets his way. You want to take that risk?

BTW - If socialized medicine is so good, then show me a country where it works better than what we currently have.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BEAST
If there's nothing available in your town, MOVE!! I got my hair cut today by a girl that moved from Wisconsin to Kingwood, Texas a month ago. She said there were no jobs so she moved. She got it. Instead of waiting for the government to help her out, she helped herself out.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rancher
You and I both know that when a tax is passed, it never goes away. However as you said, We Must Have Health Care Reform. There has always been a deficit of some sort, yet this country keeps going and remains strong and free. If you look, the republican party has never seen a deficit they dislike from Regan forward. It was under Bill Clinton when the deficit was going down that was ran up by Regan and Bush.


What? Clinton prospered from Reagans massive tax cuts that where upheld by Bush. Clinton was smart enough to leave it alone and just tweak it a little. Then he claimed it for his own.




BEAST

[BEAST]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I got my hair cut today by a girl that moved from Wisconsin to Kingwood, Texas a month ago. She said there were no jobs so she moved. She got it. Instead of waiting for the government to help her out, she helped herself out.

Amazing isn't it.




BEAST

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by rancher
You and I both know that when a tax is passed, it never goes away. However as you said, We Must Have Health Care Reform. There has always been a deficit of some sort, yet this country keeps going and remains strong and free. If you look, the republican party has never seen a deficit they dislike from Regan forward. It was under Bill Clinton when the deficit was going down that was ran up by Regan and Bush.
And Clinton passed what during his admin that put the banking industry where it is today??? Hmmm, let me think, oh yeah, sub prime mortgages came about during his term when he laxed the banking laws and you and I both know that is a fact.. I think Regan was just in spending the money he spent , Bush, no, I do not agree with it. I may be wrong about Oboma's heathcare plan but its my thoughts on it.

[rancher]

The deficit rose because of Regan and govenment expanded and got out of control in Bush 41 and Bush 43. Bill Clinton was getting the budget under control, going down. Bush 43 parting gift was to rush through the Big Bailout of the Big Banks with his Buddy Paulson. Remember, the whole problem in the banking system started with our friendly Republican in the Senate, Phil Graham, when he ram through the repel of the Glass-Stegall act. This repeal made the banks nothing more than casinos to engage in credit default swaps etc. Our President is only dealing with the mess he was handed from the last administration. What happened to the contract with America? They seemed to have been voted out because of their greed and lies.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by BEAST
You will be waiting a while. Entitlement. They can't explain it. They just think they deserve it.

Wake up call folks. NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. This is a bitch of a world. DEAL WITH IT. Good greif. Insurance is NOT a right. If you want it work for it. If your job doesn't offer it, find a new one. If there's nothing available in your town, MOVE!! We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you are not happy cuz you don't have insurance, pursue it. Quit being a lazy drag on society and go get it.




BEAST

Preach on brother Beast, preach on!

My wife and I struggled for many years, just like most people have. Some of those years we didnt have and couldnt afford health care either. But we both worked hard, were dependable, and assets to whomever we worked for. In time we finally earned our ways into much better positions with salaries to match. Now that we are finally making good money and getting ahead, these libs running things now will soon be taxing me at 50% or more, mainly because of lowlife lazyasses that arent willing to work like I did for what I have. We earned the right to the excellent health insurance we now have. If the have nots want it, they need to be willing to earn that same right as I have. If not, thats just too damn bad for them. They shouldnt expect me to pay for it.

[rancher]

No way, that is a 50% lie of Right Wing Radio.

[BEAST]

Rancher,

Going back to the original question I asked. The question was what do you Hussein Obama supporters think it means when he could not get this done.

Keep in mind, the dems did not need a single republican vote, not one. It was in the bag. Now the Republicans didnt support it but we all knew they wouldnt. But the dems? It should tell you something. If this was really going to be historical, wouldnt they want to have there vote attached to it? You see, for the first time in a long time, a bi partisan voice was spoken. Republicans and Democrats said NO. NO. You get that, they turned down savior Hussein Obama. Please tell me how that could happen if this was going to be so damn great.




BEAST

[BEAST]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Preach on brother Beast, preach on!

My wife and I struggled for many years, just like most people have. Some of those years we didnt have and couldnt afford health care either. But we both worked hard, were dependable, and assets to whomever we worked for. In time we finally earned our ways into much better positions with salaries to match. Now that we are finally making good money and getting ahead, these libs running things now will soon be taxing me at 50% or more, mainly because of lowlife lazyasses that arent willing to work like I did for what I have. We earned the right to the excellent health insurance we now have. If the have nots want it, they need to be willing to earn that same right as I have. If not, thats just too damn bad for them. They shouldnt expect me to pay for it.

AMEN. It even feels better when you EARN it and its not given to you. Congrats Red.




BEAST

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by rancher
No way, that is a 50% lie of Right Wing Radio.

I pay 35% now, and we havent spent those trillions Obama has planned yet. Just hide and watch buddy. It's people like me who will be paying for it. 50% isnt in the least out of the question. You seriously need to wake up and do a little simple math. Do you run your household budget with the same math equations your dem buddies use? If so, expect to lose everything you have before long.

[BEAST]

Funny thing Rancher, you have asked two questions. One from JasperDog and one from me, youve answered neither. Why?




BEAST

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by rancher
The deficit rose because of Regan and govenment expanded and got out of control in Bush 41 and Bush 43. Bill Clinton was getting the budget under control, going down. Bush 43 parting gift was to rush through the Big Bailout of the Big Banks with his Buddy Paulson. Remember, the whole problem in the banking system started with our friendly Republican in the Senate, Phil Graham, when he ram through the repel of the Glass-Stegall act. This repeal made the banks nothing more than casinos to engage in credit default swaps etc. Our President is only dealing with the mess he was handed from the last administration. What happened to the contract with America? They seemed to have been voted out because of their greed and lies.
Please dont tell me you are talking about Phil Gramm

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by Gsquared
Please dont tell me you are talking about Phil Gramm
Oh nevermind, you are, I overlooked that

[rancher]

It is called money talks. The lobbist for the greedy drug and insurance companies who stand to lose their love nest are giving big dollars to the best men money can buy in Washington. Here is a link to some of it. It will get done in some form. The citizens have spoken in the last election when we elected President Obama.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/health-system-reform.shtml

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rancher
It is called money talks. The lobbist for the greedy drug and insurance companies who stand to lose their love nest are giving big dollars to the best men money can buy in Washington. Here is a link to some of it. It will get done in some form. The citizens have spoken in the last election when we elected President Obama.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/health-system-reform.shtml

So you still didn't answer the questions. You answer them. Agreed the citizens spoke, and a year from now the Dems will lose the majority in the House and Senate. After that the citizens will wash their hands of our Kenyan born unconstitutional president.



BEAST

[Gsquared]

.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Gsquared
And Clinton passed what during his admin that put the banking industry where it is today??? Hmmm, let me think, oh yeah, sub prime mortgages came about during his term when he laxed the banking laws and you and I both know that is a fact.. I think Regan was just in spending the money he spent , Bush, no, I do not agree with it. I may be wrong about Oboma's heathcare plan but its my thoughts on it.

First, I want to start by saying I am not for the healthcare proposal, but I do think we do need to reform it. I will also admit that it seems a little gray in several areas and last night I didnt get many of the answers I was hoping for. I do know that the medicare/medicaid package enacted by Bush and co. will run us further into the defecit that the current proposal by Obama, but that doesnt mean I am for it. Realistically, something needs to be done. If we do nothing the consequences are far worse than doing this.... well that is my opinion and I will admit that I have not delved deep into this issue. On the surface and based on projections though it seems logical that we do something. My hope is that congress pulls their head of their ass and does the right thing versus pushing something through because Obama set a deadline. It is more important that this isnt botched and well thought out than to meet that deadline. I wish republicans and democrats could meet in the middle on this issue because it is important to several americans and the real answer lies in the middle more than the left or the right.

Secondly, you are way over your head in accusing Clinton of this precedent. Phil Gram helped push for the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act. It was a republican initiative that swept through the house and senate. I am not downplaying any democratic involvement because they did little to stop it, but it was a republican initiative and the democrats didnt challenge it.

I also appreciate those who think because I am a democrat that I cant point out flaws in our party and some things our leadership does. Maybe one day you guys will understand that I am just as critical of the current administration as I am of the ones in the past. I dont support any candidate or issue blindly. Honestly, I feel let down based on what Obama discussed during his bid for election. I think he can potentially be a great president with the people he surrounded himself with, but he has not done anything to Change the tone or politics in Washington like he promised. However, I do not see this socialistic label as reality and it is mostly a smear lable derived from the right to discredit the left entirely. ;)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
The citizens have spoken in the last election when we elected President Obama.
So just because you vote for somebody means that you support every decision they make? Shoot, I married my wife but that doesn't mean that I agree with her 100% of the time. Get a clue...or at least a new tag line.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BEAST
So you still didn't answer the questions. You answer them. Agreed the citizens spoke, and a year from now the Dems will lose the majority in the House and Senate. After that the citizens will wash their hands of our Kenyan born unconstitutional president.



BEAST

Beast I never thought you to be a conspiracy theorist. You always seemed more logical than that. ;)

Also, I am not convinced that the democrats will lose the House or Senate next year. They both have moderate approval ratings as of now, but that can always change. They have roughly a year and a half to get it together and do some good for this country. If only they would get away from lobbyists and back to legislating for the people....

We shall see...

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by rancher
It is called money talks. The lobbist for the greedy drug and insurance companies who stand to lose their love nest are giving big dollars to the best men money can buy in Washington. Here is a link to some of it. It will get done in some form. The citizens have spoken in the last election when we elected President Obama.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/health-system-reform.shtml

I dont think most are denying that some reform is needed. But Obama's plan is just way too expensive, even if we knew where the money is to pay for it.
I have a house plan in my filing cabinet that I drew up about 25 years ago. It's my perfect house, and if I can ever afford it, I just might build it some day. But if not I wont. Thats how our government needs to operate. If you cant afford it, you cant do it. seems like a simple enough concept to me.
And yes I know the GOP has spent money they didnt have either. So dont even try to get me to defend them. I just dont see letting the Dems outspend the GOP as being a good plan to solve any problems. I'd like to see both stop the waste. That alone would probably pay for Obama's plan, and might even lower my taxes. Wow what a noval idea that would be.

[rancher]

I hope this thread is not degrading to name calling and becoming racist in nature. Debate yes, but I will not engage in racist comments and lies about our Constitually Elected President.

The economy was going great under Bill Clinton. The housing bubble was put together under Bush 43 by Greenspan who made money cheap and easy. In the meantime, Phil Gramm leaves office, his wife and him help Enron go bust. He is now with UBS, Switzerland's largest bank. He also pushed through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which is now responsible for the big swings in fuel prices. Read the attached link on what crimes he has committed.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/05/foreclosure-phil

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by rancher
I hope this thread is not degrading to name calling and becoming racist in nature. Debate yes, but I will not engage in racist comments and lies about our Constitually Elected President. What in the world are you talking about? Where has anyone said anything that can possibly been seen as racist? You don't work for Harvard, do you?

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rockdale80
First, I want to start by saying I am not for the healthcare proposal, but I do think we do need to reform it. I will also admit that it seems a little gray in several areas and last night I didnt get many of the answers I was hoping for. I do know that the medicare/medicaid package enacted by Bush and co. will run us further into the defecit that the current proposal by Obama, but that doesnt mean I am for it. Realistically, something needs to be done. If we do nothing the consequences are far worse than doing this.... well that is my opinion and I will admit that I have not delved deep into this issue. On the surface and based on projections though it seems logical that we do something. My hope is that congress pulls their head of their ass and does the right thing versus pushing something through because Obama set a deadline. It is more important that this isnt botched and well
thought out than to meet that deadline. I wish
republicans and democrats could meet in the
middle on this issue because it is important to
several americans and the real answer lies in the
middle more than the left or the right.







Great post



BEAST

Secondly, you are way over your head in accusing Clinton of this precedent. Phil Gram helped push for the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act. It was a republican initiative that swept through the house and senate. I am not downplaying any democratic involvement because they did little to stop it, but it was a republican initiative and the democrats didnt challenge it.

I also appreciate those who think because I am a democrat that I cant point out flaws in our party and some things our leadership does. Maybe one day you guys will understand that I am just as critical of the current administration as I am of the ones in the past. I dont support any candidate or issue blindly. Honestly, I feel let down based on what Obama discussed during his bid for election. I think he can potentially be a great president with the people he surrounded himself with, but he has not done anything to Change the tone or politics in Washington like he promised. However, I do not see this socialistic label as reality and it is mostly a smear lable derived from the right to discredit the left entirely. ;)

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Beast I never thought you to be a conspiracy theorist. You always seemed more logical than that. ;)

Also, I am not convinced that the democrats will lose the House or Senate next year. They both have moderate approval ratings as of now, but that can always change. They have roughly a year and a half to get it together and do some good for this country. If only they would get away from lobbyists and back to legislating for the people....

We shall see...

I'm no conspiracy theorist. I'm a realist. He has yet to show a Birth Certificate. I'm not talking about a certificate of live birth.



BEAST

[BEAST]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
What in the world are you talking about? Where has anyone said anything that can possibly been seen as racist? You don't work for Harvard, do you?

He's refering to me calling his president by his name. Hussein Obama. That's not racist. That's real. If your name was Long Dong and I called you by that name would that make me sexist?




BEAST

[BEAST]

One last thing and then I gotta go. Rancher, answer the questions. Check back later.



BEAST

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BEAST
He's refering to me calling his president by his name. Hussein Obama. That's not racist. That's real. If your name was Long Dong and I called you by that name would that make me sexist?




BEAST I guess when all else fails pull out the "race card". Hey, even Clinton accused Obama of doing it in the primaries. ;)

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BEAST
I'm no conspiracy theorist. I'm a realist. He has yet to show a Birth Certificate. I'm not talking about a certificate of live birth.



BEAST


Do you really believe if there was merit to this then he would be in the position he is in currently? There are plenty right wing advocacy groups that have been on a witch hunt and the best thing they can come up with is a "birth certificate" issue. It is comparable to the misinformation passed about Kerry's military service and the Swift Boat Campaign that was completely fabricated.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Do you really believe if there was merit to this then he would be in the position he is in currently? There are plenty right wing advocacy groups that have been on a witch hunt and the best thing they can come up with is a "birth certificate" issue. It is comparable to the misinformation passed about Kerry's military service and the Swift Boat Campaign that was completely fabricated.

Then just show the damn certificate.




BEAST

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by rancher
I dont see the vets turning the care down and going to a private physician or using insurance to pay. Examples you cite are everywhere in private practice as well. You cited one not tons, I know many vets. who are treated in Houston, all compliment the health care they get. You say nothing about the cost of the drugs, and hospital stays for the average citizen. Or better yet why the drug companies, insurance companies and others who have a vested interested are spreading the love around in Washington to maintain the status quo. Remember we the citizens voted for change.

WRONG.
I'm a retired vet with with over 23 years in the military and I wouldn't use the VA to pop a pimple on my @ss.
I always go to my private physician. I have health insurance and dont mind paying for it. However, I dont believe small business owners should have to be forced to have health insurance for their employee's. Most small business' can't afford to have health insurance for their employee's.
If you think the VA is great, then you can use them, but I dont.

[PPHSfan]

My conservative friends are gonna roast me for this one, but I think Hillary, in a way has some good ideas. The main difference I see between Hillary and Osama is I believe that Hillary really wants everyone to be provided with affordable quality health care, while I feel our President just wants the Government in charge of another private industry.


Sorry I meant Obama.:D

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
My conservative friends are gonna roast me for this one, but I think Hillary, in a way has some good ideas. The main difference I see between Hillary and Osama is I believe that Hillary really wants everyone to be provided with affordable quality health care, while I feel our President just wants the Government in charge of another private industry.


Sorry I meant Obama.:D

Hillary was probably the lesser of two evils.

[BEAST]

+1




BEAST

[BEAST]

Hussein Obama is full of words but little substance. Proof? Rancher, a clear HO supporter could not answer just 2 simple questions. Reason? He doesn't know the answer. Why? Obama doesn't either therefor he hasn't said it. Rockdale on the other hand brought forth good points. I disagree with him but valid statements non the less. Difference between the 2? Looks to me like Rockdale thinks on his own.




BEAST

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Do you really believe if there was merit to this then he would be in the position he is in currently? There are plenty right wing advocacy groups that have been on a witch hunt and the best thing they can come up with is a "birth certificate" issue. It is comparable to the misinformation passed about Kerry's military service and the Swift Boat Campaign that was completely fabricated.
.
I thought it was a Dem that first came up with the "birth certificate" issue. Supposedly a Presidential candidate has to be thoroughly vetted to run for President so any problem should have arisen then. I do agree with you that this whole talk about him not being born in the USA is distracting of the real problems. Even if this issue was true there's not a judge in the nation that would rule to remove a standing President. That fact that this is popular is because of the convenience placed in the hope that he could be removed quickly. It aint gonna happen.
.
On to reforming health care(my opinion):
I think if legislation was passed that supported interstate competition of insurance companies we could save quite a bit of money.
I also believe that medical savings accounts should be encouraged and maybe expanded to the point that consumers could shop around for their own level of coverage. Not everyone wants or needs comprehensive coverage. For instance:
If I was a 20 something, I would be more inclined for a high deductible catastrophic type of coverage that would save someone like that many thousands of dollars over a more comprehensive plan. Younger folks tend to not need prescription coverage and low deductibles because they don't go to the doctor near as often as older folks do.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
I thought it was a Dem that first came up with the "birth certificate" issue. Supposedly a Presidential candidate has to be thoroughly vetted to run for President so any problem should have arisen then. I do agree with you that this whole talk about him not being born in the USA is distracting of the real problems. Even if this issue was true there's not a judge in the nation that would rule to remove a standing President. That fact that this is popular is because of the convenience placed in the hope that he could be removed quickly. It aint gonna happen.
.
On to reforming health care(my opinion):
I think if legislation was passed that supported interstate competition of insurance companies we could save quite a bit of money.
I also believe that medical savings accounts should be encouraged and maybe expanded to the point that consumers could shop around for their own level of coverage. Not everyone wants or needs comprehensive coverage. For instance:
If I was a 20 something, I would be more inclined for a high deductible catastrophic type of coverage that would save someone like that many thousands of dollars over a more comprehensive plan. Younger folks tend to not need prescription coverage and low deductibles because they don't go to the doctor near as often as older folks do.

Well, considering the right wing nature of the Supreme Court I think it is most certainly a possiblity. :)

[MJMbrahmas10]

I think obama was elected just cause he motivated people and he was African American if he was caucasion I don't believe he would have been elected and no I'm not racist one bit. It's just the truth. There are alot of ignorant people who voted for him and didn't have a single clue. And Beast your my canidate for president I have never heard anyone put it that good

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Well, considering the right wing nature of the Supreme Court I think it is most certainly a possiblity. :)
.
I don't see it happening. Isn't Chief justice Roberts considered more a Constitutionalists?
Did you read my idea on health care reform?:thinking:

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Well, considering the right wing nature of the Supreme Court I think it is most certainly a possiblity. :)

Surely you don't believe that statement.

:rolleyes: :doh:

[mustang04]

has NO ONE watched the link to that video I posted??? this govt is so twisted and corrupt that it's almost annoying to watch either political party argue about ANY candidate....it's not the president or either party's particular views...it's OUR WHOLE SYSTEM...most of the population are SHEEP who follow what they believe is right...our constitution was written in a time that didn't have the technological or scientific advances like we do now...we spend soooooo much money for things like terrorism and what-not that we cut a budget for things that kill more americans or world civilians altogether...wake up people.....its not about republican or democrat...it's about not having a govt. that knows it's going down a crap-pipe and relies on invading other countries to repay it's debt to the federal reserve....our country is run by those who want profit....humans are capable of so much more and honestly i can say it's almost a disgrace that we haven't achieved more as a race by now with the advances in technology we've made....everybody wants to stay in their perfect little patriotic bubble and ignore the fact that we might just be the most messed up country on this planet

[Pick6]

Originally posted by mustang04
.most of the population are SHEEP who follow what they believe is right.

So you follow what you think is wrong? Interesting, but that does answer some questions.

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by mustang04
has NO ONE watched the link to that video I posted??? this govt is so twisted and corrupt that it's almost annoying to watch either political party argue about ANY candidate....it's not the president or either party's particular views...it's OUR WHOLE SYSTEM...most of the population are SHEEP who follow what they believe is right...our constitution was written in a time that didn't have the technological or scientific advances like we do now...we spend soooooo much money for things like terrorism and what-not that we cut a budget for things that kill more americans or world civilians altogether...wake up people.....its not about republican or democrat...it's about not having a govt. that knows it's going down a crap-pipe and relies on invading other countries to repay it's debt to the federal reserve....our country is run by those who want profit....humans are capable of so much more and honestly i can say it's almost a disgrace that we haven't achieved more as a race by now with the advances in technology we've made....everybody wants to stay in their perfect little patriotic bubble and ignore the fact that we might just be the most messed up country on this planet

LOL....you sound like Dale Gribble on King of the Hill.

http://www.wvah.com/programs/kingofthehill/dalegribble.jpg

[Farmersfan]

Everyone tired of this subject already????? I was just getting into it.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMQi5SXCYvM

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMQi5SXCYvM



PP STeakhound! Where do you stand on all this Obama stuff? You have remained pretty quit....

[PPSTATEBOUND]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU&feature=related

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
PP STeakhound! Where do you stand on all this Obama stuff? You have remained pretty quit....

I didn't vote for him.:) and think America made a terrible choice.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O4lcBbdt9I&feature=related

[Eagle 1]

http://politicalmath.wordpress.com/

[garciap77]

Originally posted by mustang04
has NO ONE watched the link to that video I posted??? this govt is so twisted and corrupt that it's almost annoying to watch either political party argue about ANY candidate....it's not the president or either party's particular views...it's OUR WHOLE SYSTEM...most of the population are SHEEP who follow what they believe is right...our constitution was written in a time that didn't have the technological or scientific advances like we do now...we spend soooooo much money for things like terrorism and what-not that we cut a budget for things that kill more americans or world civilians altogether...wake up people.....its not about republican or democrat...it's about not having a govt. that knows it's going down a crap-pipe and relies on invading other countries to repay it's debt to the federal reserve....our country is run by those who want profit....humans are capable of so much more and honestly i can say it's almost a disgrace that we haven't achieved more as a race by now with the advances in technology we've made....everybody wants to stay in their perfect little patriotic bubble and ignore the fact that we might just be the most messed up country on this planet


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Eagle 1
http://politicalmath.wordpress.com/ Nice. Let's be just like Massachusetts.;)

[mustang04]

Originally posted by Pick6
So you follow what you think is wrong? Interesting, but that does answer some questions.

wow :rolleyes:...if that is how you interpret that line then I'm not going to even attempt arguing with you because obviously you have no capability for critical thinking...i was talking more or less about the "what they believe is right"

I dont follow everything...if you honestly think someone can completely go against our govt. and system then you have no common sense...I am at least AWARE...thats why i won't join the military...or do other things that in some way support this country, but other things are a necessity...i have to pay my taxes, i have to do other things....