Oklahoma 3A championship

[Ranger354]

Flipping thru channels today and found the Oklahoma 3A State championship game on. It was a rerun of course, but I noticed a something. The stands are not full!!!! I have seen bigger turnouts for a Sinton - Ingleside game....

I guess they are right when they say "High School football is Big in Texas"

Oh, and most of our 2A teams could beat both of the teams playing.

Maybe the beakdown in school size is different up there.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Ranger354
Flipping thru channels today and found the Oklahoma 3A State championship game on. It was a rerun of course, but I noticed a something. The stands are not full!!!! I have seen bigger turnouts for a Sinton - Ingleside game....

I guess they are right when they say "High School football is Big in Texas"

Oh, and most of our 2A teams could beat both of the teams playing.

Maybe the beakdown in school size is different up there.

I'm pretty sure that OK has a 6A. There 3A is probably pretty close to our 2A.

[Eagle1]

I saw their 4a state game which would be about the equivilant of our 3a state game and the winning team Glenpool could beat most 3a Texas teams. They had a good looking line and defense. I don't know if they would win 3a state in Texas, but I think they would be a top 10 team.

[Electus Unus]

Originally posted by Eagle1
I saw their 4a state game which would be about the equivilant of our 3a state game and the winning team Glenpool could beat most 3a Texas teams. They had a good looking line and defense. I don't know if they would win 3a state in Texas, but I think they would be a top 10 team. "They wouldn't beat BWood" - Rocket

[waterboy]

I don't think they could've beat any of the top 10 in Texas 3A last year.......just my homer opinion, though.;)

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by Ranger354
Flipping thru channels today and found the Oklahoma 3A State championship game on. It was a rerun of course, but I noticed a something. The stands are not full!!!! I have seen bigger turnouts for a Sinton - Ingleside game....

I guess they are right when they say "High School football is Big in Texas"


Which is one of the reasons we like to recruit and sign players from Texas. The other reason OU recruits Texas is because it seems to irritate a lot of folks:)

[LionKing]

Originally posted by Eagle1
I saw their 4a state game which would be about the equivilant of our 3a state game and the winning team Glenpool could beat most 3a Texas teams. They had a good looking line and defense. I don't know if they would win 3a state in Texas, but I think they would be a top 10 team. The thing about Glenpool and comparing them to top Texas 3A teams is that competition level is very weak after you get past 2-3 of the top teams in OK 4A football, they'd be possibly a top 10 3A team if they were in Texas, but more than likely top 20 would be where they fit in, OK just doesn't have the school numbers overall to field several top schools like Texas does, OK has talented teams, especially the larger schools like Tulsa Jenks and Union, Muskogee usually has talent and good teams, as does a couple of schools around the Okla City-Norman area, but there's a reason OU and OSU's rosters are predominantly Texan, OK just doesn't have enough good talent and teams.

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by LionKing
The thing about Glenpool and comparing them to top Texas 3A teams is that competition level is very weak after you get past 2-3 of the top teams in OK 4A football, they'd be possibly a top 10 3A team if they were in Texas, but more than likely top 20 would be where they fit in, OK just doesn't have the school numbers overall to field several top schools like Texas does, OK has talented teams, especially the larger schools like Tulsa Jenks and Union, Muskogee usually has talent and good teams, as does a couple of schools around the Okla City-Norman area, but there's a reason OU and OSU's rosters are predominantly Texan, OK just doesn't have enough good talent and teams.
Agree. Probably more high schools playing high-quality football in the metroplex and Houston area than the entire state of Oklahoma. But the state produces lots of talented players over the years, just not near as many as Texas. But no other state does either.

[cshscougar08]

Originally posted by LionKing
OK has talented teams, especially the larger schools like Tulsa Jenks and Union, Muskogee usually has talent and good teams, as does a couple of schools around the Okla City-Norman area, but there's a reason OU and OSU's rosters are predominantly Texan, OK just doesn't have enough good talent and teams.

Jenks and Union are definitely the best two teams in Oklahoma in any class. Some other good ones are Ada, Heritage Hall and Cascia Hall. Also in OK, private schools are grouped in with the regular schools, whether they have religious affiliation or not.

Oh and btw, small point, but Jenks is actually its own town. Didn't know that myself til I met someone from there. Now one of my closest friends.

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Ive seen lots of film on Jenks, from several years(used to work with a guy who coached there), and there's no way they're even close to a top 25 5a team in Texas...ever! They'd be a slightly above average 4a team(probably never more than 2 rounds deep), but they'd rarely make the playoffs in most 5a districts.
Yeah they are definitely a top 25, probably a top 10, most years. And over the years they have fielded some teams that would have challenged for a state title here as well. But overall, there is no doubt that texas has better football.

[I. B. Watching]

The 2000 Jenks team was probably one of the best teams in the nation. I do believe Jenks and Union would be a top 25 most every year in Texas. Do I think they would always be a top 10? No. Do I think they sometimes have fielded teams good enough to win it all in 5A in Texas,yes. I think the 2000 squad might have. And there have been others. Not saying they would win it, just saying I think they have fielded teams over the years that have been good enough to challenge. We will never know. I feel fortunate to be in a situation where I get to watch great high school football in both states, and most of it is in Texas, no doubt.

[I. B. Watching]

It seems like Jenks's 1997 team was ranked high nationally as well. I do believe that Texas teams play much tougher competition week end and week out, and bang each other up more while on their route to state title games.

[I. B. Watching]

Jenks has had a lot of Division I signees and so has Union. But If you want to believe Jenks or Union can't play in Texas 5A that's fine. I think they can, but we'll just have to disagree.

[Twirling Time]

The thing to remember about Oklahoma is their classifications don't compare to Texas. They have eight classes for football (1A to 6A, plus a Class B and C for eight-man). There are only 32 schools per class from 3A-6A, and 64 schools for 1A and 2A. The bottom 72 football-playing schools can opt to play eight-man.

Only the seven biggest 6A schools in Oklahoma have the enrollment that would put them in Texas 5A, and they're all Tulsa / OKC suburbs. Out of the 5A teams in Oklahoma, all but the 12 biggest would be playing 3A ball if they were in Texas instead. Take Durant, for example — instead of playing Tulsa schools, they would be playing the likes of Whitesboro and Bonham.

The classes go like this in Oklahoma (I think; the list isn't very clear where the lower class cutoffs are):
6A — 1288 and up
5A — 682-1255
4A — 482-687
3A — 382-477
2A — 248-381
1A — 247 and down (the 72 smallest schools can opt to play eight-man and are grouped into Class B and C)

The biggest eight-man school I know of, Geary, has a 140 enrollment.

[LionKing]

I remember 6 or 7 years ago, Texas signed Bryan Pickerl from Jenks, he got injured early on and never panned out, I know Texas has had some contact and interest from another top OK player from the Tulsa area, Demarco Cobb I believe is his name, don't believe he'll end up at Texas, he initiated the contact with Texas, but hasn't made any trips yet to Austin.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Vernon plays Altus, Oklahoma every year...Altus is a 5A in Oklahoma. Vernon whips em every year too.

I do recall that Everman played either Lawton High or Lawton Ike about 4 or 5 years ago. The Okie school beat them. I think it was the year after Everman won state.

Matt could clarify that as I think he was at the game.

[LionKing]

Originally posted by Twirling Time
The thing to remember about Oklahoma is their classifications don't compare to Texas. They have eight classes for football (1A to 6A, plus a Class B and C for eight-man). There are only 32 schools per class from 3A-6A, and 64 schools for 1A and 2A. The bottom 72 football-playing schools can opt to play eight-man.

Only the seven biggest 6A schools in Oklahoma have the enrollment that would put them in Texas 5A, and they're all Tulsa / OKC suburbs. Out of the 5A teams in Oklahoma, all but the 12 biggest would be playing 3A ball if they were in Texas instead. Take Durant, for example — instead of playing Tulsa schools, they would be playing the likes of Whitesboro and Bonham.

The classes go like this in Oklahoma (I think; the list isn't very clear where the lower class cutoffs are):
6A — 1288 and up
5A — 682-1255
4A — 482-687
3A — 382-477
2A — 248-381
1A — 247 and down (the 72 smallest schools can opt to play eight-man and are grouped into Class B and C)

The biggest eight-man school I know of, Geary, has a 140 enrollment. Thanks for this info, 1A thru 4A enrollments keeps the school sizes pretty close and fair, 5A and 6A sure have a lot of disparity from top to bottom.

[Matthew328]

yeah Everman played Lawton Ike in 2002 and 2003....Lawton Ike is a 6A school in Oklahoma with an enrollment of 1200 grades 10-12....so I estimate 9-12 they are around 1600 or so...

Everman beat them in Everman 43-32 I think...and Everman lost to Ike 24-7 in 2003 in Lawton...2003 Everman team was probably the weakest since 1998....I seem to recall Ike being very good in both those years

[Twirling Time]

Another thing I notice when teams from across the river play each other is the home team seems to have an advantage. I think Oklahoma teams can be intimidated when they come south and play by Texas rules. Chop blocking, for instance. Likewise, I think Texas teams can be frustrated when they go north and what's legal in Texas turns into a 15-yard penalty.

[Matthew328]

I dont think OK has many 6A schools above 2000....

[LionKing]

Originally posted by Twirling Time
Another thing I notice when teams from across the river play each other is the home team seems to have an advantage. I think Oklahoma teams can be intimidated when they come south and play by Texas rules. Chop blocking, for instance. Likewise, I think Texas teams can be frustrated when they go north and what's legal in Texas turns into a 15-yard penalty. One of my daughter's friends is an asst coach at Wellington in the eastern panhandle close to the OK border, they always play an OK team every year and that they always get penalties for blocking rules in OK.

[Twirling Time]

Originally posted by Matthew328
yeah Everman played Lawton Ike in 2002 and 2003....Lawton Ike is a 6A school in Oklahoma with an enrollment of 1200 grades 10-12....so I estimate 9-12 they are around 1600 or so...

Everman beat them in Everman 43-32 I think...and Everman lost to Ike 24-7 in 2003 in Lawton...2003 Everman team was probably the weakest since 1998....I seem to recall Ike being very good in both those years

Ike was listed in the 2008 ADM report with 1,491. I'm fairly certain Oklahoma uses 9-12 numbers.

[bwdlionfan]

Originally posted by Twirling Time


The classes go like this in Oklahoma (I think; the list isn't very clear where the lower class cutoffs are):
6A — 1288 and up
5A — 682-1255
4A — 482-687
3A — 382-477
2A — 248-381
1A — 247 and down (the 72 smallest schools can opt to play eight-man and are grouped into Class B and C)

The biggest eight-man school I know of, Geary, has a 140 enrollment.

Dang, you got that 4A goes up to 687 and 5A starts at 682... what about those schools that fall in between? Do they get an option? LOL... sounds like Wylie has had some influence on Oklahoma athletics!

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
Dang, you got that 4A goes up to 687 and 5A starts at 682... what about those schools that fall in between? Do they get an option? LOL... sounds like Wylie has had some influence on Oklahoma athletics!
.
Don't forget 5A to 6A has a gap of 33 students(6A — 1288 and up
5A — 682-1255) and those poor teams that fall in between never get to play.:( :D
j/k tt

[Ranger354]

I think what too me by surprise the most was that the stands were not full. The game was played in a stadium the size if Sinton's and there was plenty of room in the stands. I don't remember seeing a band either.

[Old Cardinal]

It is interesting over on the extreme east side of Texas (what we sometimes call Lapland--where Louisiana laps over into Texas). LA schools want no
part of TX football teams--in years past our TX schools would routinely whip the future state champions from
LA, in preseason contest.

Now in softball and baseball their biggest schools can hold their on with the local TXs schools. The also have high recruitment private schools with low enrollments and they are all hand picked athletes-- whipping public schools of like enrollment-- that can't recruit--is a real unfair mess!

Someone told me that the New Mexico school cannot compete well with the West TXs schools of the same size either.
Is this true?

[wildstangs]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
Someone told me that the New Mexico school cannot compete well with the West TXs schools of the same size either.
Is this true?


Most of the panhandle and plains schools whip the New Mexico schools like Carlsbad, Hobbs, and Portales. I think the El Paso schools break even most of the times in their series with the New Mexico schools. Seems Las Cruces Mayfield (top contender in NM) does really well against El Paso teams.

[cshscougar08]

Originally posted by Matthew328
I dont think OK has many 6A schools above 2000....

Not many no. Jenks is around 3000 as is Union and several other Tulsa area schools. I think the Putnam City schools in OKC are also 2000. Not for sure on that one though.

[Twirling Time]

There are only 10 schools in Oklahoma with ADMs over 2000. And like I said earlier, only seven are big enough to play in 5A in Texas.

1 Broken Arrow 4459.33
2 Union 4202.37
3 Jenks 2889.43
4 Owasso 2563.42
5 Mustang 2255.19
6 Westmoore 2231.00
7 Edmond North 2094.17
8 Moore 2078.00
9 Norman North 2075.93
10 Yukon 2019.15

[bwdlionfan]

Oklahoma must water their sports down as much as Arkansas. They have a 6A there as well. Does anyone have enrollment figures for Arkansas schools?

[Matthew328]

I think Arkansas has like 2 6A districts

[bwdlionfan]

So the state champ there is really a bi-district champ

[Twirling Time]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
Oklahoma must water their sports down as much as Arkansas. They have a 6A there as well. Does anyone have enrollment figures for Arkansas schools?

If you think Oklahoma is bad, Arkansas is a total joke. There are 16 teams in 7A, and 16 in 6A. They just came out with their new enrollment numbers for their 2010 realignment (they count grades 10-12 only, and average them over a 3-year period):

http://www.ahsaa.org/article.asp?articleID=303

Looks like starting in 2010 Arkansas will combine 7A and 6A and will start doing divisional playoffs like we do. Not much better IMO.

[Matthew328]

yeah Arkansas is a joke...

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by mwynn05
I kind of disagree with ya, I know you have a lot of experience and stuff and i dono about you but to me but HS teams never look that great on film, not as impressive as in person any way...just seems much slower etc....but i think thats the same with most sports at any level on TV you just dont get the same feel

Seeing film and watching a game on TV are 2 diff things. especially watching coaching film, even when done by people who are just helping out as long as they shoot the tight line angle and the wide angle you can see way more on film that u can on tv or in person.

in person ur seeing it once so you see a kid run a 70 yd TD and think man that dude has some jets...but if you see the film you realize for example the DE on the play got rolled up on by the LB taking them both out of the play and the FS had a terrible angle and never stood a chance and no back side help ever came.

So now that 70 yd omg run was really nothing more than a 3 yrd gain without help from the defense.

[mwynn05]

well of course you can see what the defense did wrong when you can keep rewinding the play and thats just what im getting at you can break it down and make it "not look as good" and yes i know watching on tv is not film but was sparked by watching the rangers on tv... i go to the games all the time and the difference in the speed on the field between being there and watching on tv is amazing

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Seeing film and watching a game on TV are 2 diff things. especially watching coaching film, even when done by people who are just helping out as long as they shoot the tight line angle and the wide angle you can see way more on film that u can on tv or in person.

in person ur seeing it once so you see a kid run a 70 yd TD and think man that dude has some jets...but if you see the film you realize for example the DE on the play got rolled up on by the LB taking them both out of the play and the FS had a terrible angle and never stood a chance and no back side help ever came.

So now that 70 yd omg run was really nothing more than a 3 yrd gain without help from the defense.

[gtownpoke]

I grew up in Oklahoma and played high school ball in Gilmer and now live back in Oklahoma. There is not a 4A team that would play with the top 3A teams in Texas. There are a handful of 5A teams in Oklahoma that would (Guthrie, Carl Albert, etc). There are even a lot of 6A schools that would get throttled by the top 3A teams in Texas. Without being a homer for Gilmer.. I know Celina, Liberty Eylau, Carthage, Liberty Hill, etc. would run most teams up here off the field. Kids up here just don't put football as their top priority like they do in Texas. When it starts getting cold they're ready to start wrestling or playing basketball. In the spring time there is very little thought about football.

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by gtownpoke
I grew up in Oklahoma and played high school ball in Gilmer and now live back in Oklahoma. There is not a 4A team that would play with the top 3A teams in Texas. There are a handful of 5A teams in Oklahoma that would (Guthrie, Carl Albert, etc). There are even a lot of 6A schools that would get throttled by the top 3A teams in Texas. Without being a homer for Gilmer.. I know Celina, Liberty Eylau, Carthage, Liberty Hill, etc. would run most teams up here off the field. Kids up here just don't put football as their top priority like they do in Texas. When it starts getting cold they're ready to start wrestling or playing basketball. In the spring time there is very little thought about football.
I pretty much agree with this, although I still think that there have been times when Jenks or Union could do well here. But I have seen high school football in a number of states and nowhere does it compare to Texas. I went up to a Mt.Carmel Penn. game once several years ago when they were having a great run, and was very disappointed. Texas high school football is on a different level than everyone else. I don't think California, Florida, Ohio, or Louisiana are at the Texas level either.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by I. B. Watching
I pretty much agree with this, although I still think that there have been times when Jenks or Union could do well here. But I have seen high school football in a number of states and nowhere does it compare to Texas. I went up to a Mt.Carmel Penn. game once several years ago when they were having a great run, and was very disappointed. Texas high school football is on a different level than everyone else. I don't think California, Florida, Ohio, or Louisiana are at the Texas level either. sorry, Florida and California teams could come here and be very competitive. I think we may be number 1 OVERALL, but a state champion from either can win one here as well.

[Chopblock]

1A Canadian whipped 3A Woodward 55-7 last year, played the 2nd team the entire 2nd half

[Twirling Time]

Originally posted by DDBooger
sorry, Florida and California teams could come here and be very competitive. I think we may be number 1 OVERALL, but a state champion from either can win one here as well.

I watched Gainesville smoke the California team a few years ago. The final score was 33-0 and it should've been worse — Gainesville had 3 or 4 TDs called back.

Granted, that was one team and Gainesville smoked a lot of people that year.

Plus, California seniors tend to be a year younger than Texas seniors because California kids start kindergarten a year earlier. That Scotts Valley team had a lot of 15-year-old juniors.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Twirling Time
I watched Gainesville smoke the California team a few years ago. The final score was 33-0 and it should've been worse — Gainesville had 3 or 4 TDs called back.

Granted, that was one team and Gainesville smoked a lot of people that year.

Plus, California seniors tend to be a year younger than Texas seniors because California kids start kindergarten a year earlier. That Scotts Valley team had a lot of 15-year-old juniors. Alice beat them too last year, they weren't that impressive. Miami Nortwestern was stacked

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by DDBooger
sorry, Florida and California teams could come here and be very competitive. I think we may be number 1 OVERALL, but a state champion from either can win one here as well.
I agree that some could be competitive here. A close friend of mine who covered football for the Jacksonville (Florida) paper believes that overall, Texas is at a higher level, from top to bottom. I'm basing my comments on what he has told me.I've never been to a Florida High School game.

[Electus Unus]

Oklahoma sucks.

[gtownpoke]

At a coaches clinic I talked to college coach about the differences in recruiting players from Texas, California, and Florida. He said talent wise there wasn't much of a difference. All 3 states had kids that could play ball. He said the biggest difference between the 3 is the coaches in Texas. Kids that come from Texas are so far ahead of kids that come from any other state because the high school coaches are miles ahead of everyone else.

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Electus Unus
Oklahoma sucks. You SUCK.

[I. B. Watching]

Originally posted by lepfan
You SUCK. :D

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Electus Unus
Oklahoma sucks.



Originally posted by lepfan
You SUCK.


2 of the most truthful statements here :D