Serving in our military.

[Farmersfan]

I recently had a major discussion with a friend of mine concerning military service and paying taxes. He said that it is wrong for anyone serving in the military to pay any kind of taxes regardless of where they serve. Even though both my boys have served or are now serving in the Army I told him that if they aren't in actual combat then they are not doing anything better than working a normal job just like everyone else and should pay taxes just like everyone else. He said we owe the people serving in the military more than we owe anyone else in our society so we should be willing to give them tax free benefits. I agreed with him except that I said we only owe those who actually fight in combat.
What do you guys think???

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I recently had a major discussion with a friend of mine concerning military service and paying taxes. He said that it is wrong for anyone serving in the military to pay any kind of taxes regardless of where they serve. Even though both my boys have served or are now serving in the Army I told him that if they aren't in actual combat then they are not doing anything better than working a normal job just like everyone else and should pay taxes just like everyone else. He said we owe the people serving in the military more than we owe anyone else in our society so we should be willing to give them tax free benefits. I agreed with him except that I said we only owe those who actually fight in combat.
What do you guys think???

While it was a number of years ago, I spent about 6 1/2 years in the Air Force in the late 60's-early 70's. The way we were taxed then was on basic pay only. My housing and subsistence pay as well as flight pay, which made up about 40% of my pay, were not taxed. As an example, I was making $18,000 per year all told, but only taxed on $11,000. We did pay social security taxes, but I'm not certain on medicare.

When serving in a combat zone officers were exempted from the first $500 per month pay for tax purposes. In addition we received $35/month combat pay and $100/month hazardous duty pay, also not taxable. Enlisted personnel were exempted from all taxes while serving in a combat zone.

I'm not sure it is the same now, but we considered all those as pretty good perks. While in Vietnam I lived on the $135 per month plus estimated tax savings and sent the rest for my wife to live on. We didn't either one live well, but we did OK. I'd be interested in knowing if the tax situation is the same today. None of us resented paying income tax that I was aware of.

[sinton66]

IMO, members of the military don't make all that much money anyway. Taxing their income is basically taking money out of one federal pocket and putting it into a different one. Seems kinda silly to me.

Their GI benefits are being whittled away at everywhere one looks these days. Using the GI bill to buy a home used to be a good benefit for returning military. These days the finance institutions charge them a HEFTY fee to use their benefits. That's pure BS in my opinion. Why is it necessary to charge a fee on a loan that is GUARANTEED by the government? There is virtually no risk, so the interest rate SHOULD be lower. I don't understand how they get away with it. The FED should be calling them on it.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by sinton66
IMO, members of the military don't make all that much money anyway. Taxing their income is basically taking money out of one federal pocket and putting it into a different one. Seems kinda silly to me.

Their GI benefits are being whittled away at everywhere one looks these days. Using the GI bill to buy a home used to be a good benefit for returning military. These days the finance institutions charge them a HEFTY fee to use their benefits. That's pure BS in my opinion. Why is it necessary to charge a fee on a loan that is GUARANTEED by the government? There is virtually no risk, so the interest rate SHOULD be lower. I don't understand how they get away with it. The FED should be calling them on it.



I 100% agree that war time or combat troops should not pay any kind of taxes. These people are putting their lives on the line for our way of life. But aren't cops, firemen and dogcatchers doing the exact same thing everyday???? I was simply asking what qualifies a man(or woman) serving in the military at Ft. Bragg to be tax exempt? If it's income level then we have to acknowledge that a large percent of our population makes less than a E-1 level soldier and have ZERO benefits. If it's simplay a matter of service to our country then a heck of a lot bigger pool of Americans would fall into that category. Just my thoughts.

[sinton66]

Firemen and cops aren't federal employees. They also get considerably higher pay for their efforts. All I'm saying is that more and more these days, there's not much benefit to serving in the military. The fed should go after all the congressional people that don't pay their taxes, then they could afford to let the military off.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by sinton66
Firemen and cops aren't federal employees. They also get considerably higher pay for their efforts. All I'm saying is that more and more these days, there's not much benefit to serving in the military. The fed should go after all the congressional people that don't pay their taxes, then they could afford to let the military off.

Benefits for serving in the military (my thoughts):

1. Education assistance
2. Paid travel to many foreign countries, most of which we are not fighting
3. Free healthcare including your family while on active duty
4. Tax benefits
5. Savings benefits. The military offers a savings account with a guaranteed 10% return
6. Fulfilling a sense of commitment and duty
7. Learning a valuable trade

I could go on and on, but I think this is generally a fair assessment.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Benefits for serving in the military (my thoughts):

1. Education assistance
2. Paid travel to many foreign countries, most of which we are not fighting
3. Free healthcare including your family while on active duty
4. Tax benefits
5. Savings benefits. The military offers a savings account with a guaranteed 10% return
6. Fulfilling a sense of commitment and duty
7. Learning a valuable trade

I could go on and on, but I think this is generally a fair assessment.


The pay is not comparable with civilian level pay but the benefits are huge for most people. Both my sons did the Army thing. My youngest is still in as a MP and my oldest got out after 5 years of training as a Arabic Linguist. He now is going to college full time on uncle Sam's dollar and will combine a computer programming education with his Arabic skills to work for the government in simulation and programing. All the while he was getting a check every month with NO bills, NO rent, NO medical, and NO expenses of any kind. He was even paid twice as much the 14 months he worked in the Iraq green zone in a underground bunker with A/C. They turned him from a boy into a man that now knows exactly what he wants to accomplish in life. Somehow it just seems the Government has done enough. Perhaps it's not that way with most people but so far both my sons have done very well due to their military experiences.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The pay is not comparable with civilian level pay but the benefits are huge for most people. Both my sons did the Army thing. My youngest is still in as a MP and my oldest got out after 5 years of training as a Arabic Linguist. He now is going to college full time on uncle Sam's dollar and will combine a computer programming education with his Arabic skills to work for the government in simulation and programing. All the while he was getting a check every month with NO bills, NO rent, NO medical, and NO expenses of any kind. He was even paid twice as much the 14 months he worked in the Iraq green zone in a underground bunker with A/C. They turned him from a boy into a man that now knows exactly what he wants to accomplish in life. Somehow it just seems the Government has done enough. Perhaps it's not that way with most people but so far both my sons have done very well due to their military experiences.

Total pay including base pay , housing, subsistance, and clothing for a lowly E-2 with 2 years service is about $42,000 per year. For a person age 22 and no college degree, that is very comparable. Then toss in free medical and all the other benefits listed above and that's not too bad. Not great, but it gets better with time.

http://airforcetimes.com/money/pay_charts/

[Diocletian]

I have lived.

I have served.

I have paid taxes.

I have wondered....


Maybe the answer is blowin' in the wind?

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I recently had a major discussion with a friend of mine concerning military service and paying taxes. He said that it is wrong for anyone serving in the military to pay any kind of taxes regardless of where they serve. Even though both my boys have served or are now serving in the Army I told him that if they aren't in actual combat then they are not doing anything better than working a normal job just like everyone else and should pay taxes just like everyone else. He said we owe the people serving in the military more than we owe anyone else in our society so we should be willing to give them tax free benefits. I agreed with him except that I said we only owe those who actually fight in combat.
What do you guys think???


I agree with your friend.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by garciap77
I agree with your friend.

I think enlisted troops are already exempt from income tax while in a combat zone. Officers also receive a break. That pretty well covers the tax issue.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Diocletian
I have lived.

I have served.

I have paid taxes.

I have wondered....


Maybe the answer is blowin' in the wind?

Most witty indeed Diocletian! :)


Me - I keep trying to pay my taxes with a smile but they keep insisting on money. :)

[TexasHSFB]

I say tax their base pay, but not combat pay, and not war time bonuses, etc.

[BleedOrange]

Tax exemption for all military (combat zone or not). Its the least we can do for their service. I wouldn't mind paying the outlandish rates I currenty pay if these fine men and women were exempt.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Tax exemption for all military (combat zone or not). Its the least we can do for their service. I wouldn't mind paying the outlandish rates I currenty pay if these fine men and women were exempt.

No you wouldnt...

You would blame democrats, and ignore the fact that the current tax rates in place until 2010 were put into place by Bush...;) :hand:

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by rockdale80
No you wouldnt...

You would blame democrats, and ignore the fact that the current tax rates in place until 2010 were put into place by Bush...;) :hand:

You really make no sense. What would I blame the democrats for (Military personnel not paying taxes?). I have plenty to blame them for but if I have to pay higher taxes so the military personnel don't I am OK with that. Unfortunately, that is not reality and those of your ilk don't get it. You just want handouts. Now lets hear your ridiculous baseless rants.

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by rockdale80
No you wouldnt...

You would blame democrats, and ignore the fact that the current tax rates in place until 2010 were put into place by Bush...;) :hand: Turned a nice conversation about helping our military men and women into a blame bush fiesta.


NICE! :clap: :hand:

[Pick6]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
Turned a nice conversation about helping our military men and women into a blame bush fiesta.


NICE! :clap: :hand:

That's typical lately

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Pick6
That's typical lately


Really? Where did I blame Bush for anything? You guys never cease to amaze me. Clearly that was a joke. Perhaps you guys should pull your thong out of your a$$....;)

BleedOrange, keep tossing out opinions and I will keep making you look silly with facts. The offer still stands to take this up via PM. Your call....

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Really? Where did I blame Bush for anything? You guys never cease to amaze me. Clearly that was a joke. Perhaps you guys should pull your thong out of your a$$....;)

BleedOrange, keep tossing out opinions and I will keep making you look silly with facts. The offer still stands to take this up via PM. Your call....

Take what up? The only one who looks silly on here is you. :confused:

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Take what up? The only one who looks silly on here is you. :confused:

Ok buddy... if you say so. When you get tired of having your opinions proven wrong with fact publically you know how to get in touch.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Ok, I have no dog in this fight, but I do think a quick recap is in order.
A thread about taxes paid by those in the military was started and was going very peacefully, with everyone agreeing that those in combat should not be taxed.
BleedOrange stated that he would be willing to shoulder the tax burden in order to keep those in combat from paying taxes.
Rockdale80 responded, questioning Bleed's post and stated that he would instead blame democrats for the additional tax burden and then stated that current tax rates were actually set by Bush.
Rockdale, dude, you're way outta line on this one. Nothing political was going on until you jumped in. Besides, your last post makes absolutely no sense. What facts have you presented on this thread? You and you alone changed this from a discussion into an argument with unprovoked, childish attacks. Were you just looking for a fight?

Alright, well if you would have continued reading then you would have read where I said that my post was clearly a joke. I will repeat it so that some of you that are slow to comprehend can understand, IT WAS A JOKE. Out of line? :rolleyes: You guys are really uptight today....

I will answer the question though and get us back on topic:

No, and for a multitude of reasons.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Ok buddy... if you say so. When you get tired of having your opinions proven wrong with fact publically you know how to get in touch.

Not sure how an opinion over military personnel and taxes is something that can be "proven wrong with fact". I think you need to understand what an opinion is then you might stop looking silly everytime you throw out the "fact" attack. If you need a definition I am happy to provide it for your edification.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Not sure how an opinion over military personnel and taxes is something that can be "proven wrong with fact". I think you need to understand what an opinion is then you might stop looking silly everytime you throw out the "fact" attack. If you need a definition I am happy to provide it for your edification.

Clearly you lack comprehension skills. I was referring to our other two topics that you interjected your opinion, had it refuted, then argued some more with your opinion. Try to keep up with the discussion son. So back to the military and enough with you and me.

What is so hard about comprehending a JOKE? WOW.....:hand:

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by rockdale80
No you wouldnt...

You would blame democrats, and ignore the fact that the current tax rates in place until 2010 were put into place by Bush...;) :hand:

I am no fan of Rockdale but it does appear his retort was followed by an attempt, ;) :hand:, to show he was kidding. I assume this was not edited or added later.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
I am no fan of Rockdale but it does appear his retort was followed by an attempt, ;) :hand:, to show he was kidding. I assume this was not edited or added later.

Your assumption would be correct. ;)

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
I think enlisted troops are already exempt from income tax while in a combat zone. Officers also receive a break. That pretty well covers the tax issue.


Which is odd to me. After serviing my time, I noticed more soliders die when not in the combat zone. And after doing some research you'll find that most of the deaths in the combat zones are suicides...sad but true.

But can we call it "paying" taxes? It should be more like "transfering" taxes?

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Diocletian
Which is odd to me. After serviing my time, I noticed more soliders die when not in the combat zone. And after doing some research you'll find that most of the deaths in the combat zones are suicides...sad but true.

But can we call it "paying" taxes? It should be more like "transfering" taxes?

While I have no "quotes" to back it up, I very seriously doubt that more soldiers (as a percentage) die while not in the combat zone. and "most of the deaths in the combat zones are suicides." Don't believe it for a moment. Does it happen? Of couse. Most of the deaths, no way.

I spent a year in a combat zone and I assure it ws not true where I was. We lost 8 people while I was there and 7 were combat related.

I intend to research this, but I don't think your research is accurate.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
The way they're being abused right now, you're seeing alot more of it. :thinking: explain

[DDBooger]

if you mean over-utilization, longer tours, stop-loss and downright battle fatigue. Likely right.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Diocletian
Which is odd to me. After serviing my time, I noticed more soliders die when not in the combat zone. And after doing some research you'll find that most of the deaths in the combat zones are suicides...sad but true.

But can we call it "paying" taxes? It should be more like "transfering" taxes?

Here is the first thing I found. Suicides among all soldiers, not just those in combat, are high and gaining, about 17 per 100,000 troops according to the article. This compares to a rate of 20 per 100,000 among civilians.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/01/military.suicides/index.html

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes to all that you said, but more. Since it started, the rule has been one year tour, then one year off before you go back. NOW, however, in the quest to win hearts and minds(ain't gonna happen, not in this part of the world), men are forced to stay MUCH longer so that the natives grow to trust them since they're seeing the same men.
Also, our military, army mostly, are doing things they're not trained nor qualified to do. They're being used as diplomats. The current rules of engagment are the most asinine since those used in Mogadishu(and yes, I know first hand what they are). Right now, we're asking men who are trained to fight and kill to be politicians AND fighters and killers. Anytime the enemy has been embolded enough to KIDNAP soldiers, something is bad wrong.
My stepson is in Iraq as we speak, and due to my own experience, he confides things in me that many probably dont. It is absolutely horrific the conditions we're asking our men to work under. Oh absolutely, we paired down our military to be a thing of precision, end wars quickly and overwhelmingly. Not discussing the reasons behind the war (cause we've been there over and over), the dynamics of nation building run counter to the modern military's most effective utilization. From Lebanon in 83, Mogadishu in 93 to Iraq it has been bloody.

Imagine being a peacekeeper in the Balkans in the early 90s

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
You know what the answer to this was? Upon returning, the soldiers were ordered "not to take their own lives" and to report to a superior officer if they feel the need to do so.

"She said Congress has given "hundreds of millions of dollars" to the military to improve its ability to provide mental health treatment, but said it will take more than money to resolve the problem."

I am not arguing that ANY suicide is ok. I'm all for helping the troops, but declaring it a disaster when it is actually lower than the civilian population numbers smacks somewhat of sensationalism. And saying more troops die from suicide in a combat area than died in actual combat is just not so.

[Farmersfan]

My just spent a week on the lake with my two sons. The oldest has finished his 5 year enlistment with 14 months in Iraq and the youngest is now at Ft. Bragg and is scheduled to deploy soon. Both went in with the idea of going career and both changed their mind shortly afterwards. The reasons for this would start a fire storm on here so I will leave that alone. But I don't think anyone would deny the idea of giving soldiers a tax break while they are serving in a combat zone. My question evolves more around the idea of giving them a tax break while they are stationed in the US and not serving during wartime or after they come home from combat duty. And if a soldier during peacetime should get tax free benifits then how can we justify not giving the same to our policemen & firemen? These individuals are actually putting their lives on the line for us more so than a soldier during peacetime. (and they work a hell of a lot harder). Just putting that out there for discussion. Let'r rip!

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Both went in with the idea of going career and both changed their mind shortly afterwards. The reasons for this would start a fire storm on here so I will leave that alone.
Hey, inquiring minds wanna know! PM those reasons! I'll bet I can already tell you the reasons.;)