Astros Talk

[TexasHSFB]

They've won 3 straight but I'm thinking it's time to start dealing players to help the farm. We've gone the all veteran/no farm route long enough and what has it gotten us since 2005?


The Astros were legit when they had a team built on pitching. Now, not so much.

I think Wandy's value has shot through the roof this year and Oswalt will always have a high demand.


I think they can trade someone like Berkman and especially Tejada.


Maysonet can be an interim fill at 2B or SS, depending on what happens with Matsui and Tejada.

[TexasHSFB]

TTT


BTW, Cooper is on the hot seat. They say the next two weeks will determine his future.

[Keith7]

the asstros are irrelevant without the silver boot..

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
They've won 3 straight but I'm thinking it's time to start dealing players to help the farm. We've gone the all veteran/no farm route long enough and what has it gotten us since 2005?


The Astros were legit when they had a team built on pitching. Now, not so much.

I think Wandy's value has shot through the roof this year and Oswalt will always have a high demand.


I think they can trade someone like Berkman and especially Tejada.


Maysonet can be an interim fill at 2B or SS, depending on what happens with Matsui and Tejada.

I think Tejada is gone by the trade deadline....he's in the last year of his deal and a contending team with a need will surely look at him.

Roy O probably won't waive his no-trade clause.

Not sure if you could move Berkman right now...although he is heating up a bit he's off to an awful start.

But I agree...the farm system needs re-plenishing.

[Pmoney]

Keep Oswalt, Berkman, and Pence...everyone else can be traded in my opinion

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by Pmoney
Keep Oswalt, Berkman, and Pence...everyone else can be traded in my opinion Roy O could possibly be the biggest as far as potential returns go.

Tejada is leading the NL in average so he is definitely sought after.


Lee has already said that he will not waive his no trade clause for anyone.


Roy would be open to a NL squad. All he really wants is to pitch with his friend Jake Peavy.


Berkman could be put on a team like SF. They are buyers and they really need a slugging first baseman.


Bourn and Pence are the only players I think you have to keep.... unless you are just offered something outrageous for one of them.

[Pmoney]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
Roy O could possibly be the biggest as far as potential returns go.

Tejada is leading the NL in average so he is definitely sought after.


Lee has already said that he will not waive his no trade clause for anyone.


Roy would be open to a NL squad. All he really wants is to pitch with his friend Jake Peavy.


Berkman could be put on a team like SF. They are buyers and they really need a slugging first baseman.


Bourn and Pence are the only players I think you have to keep.... unless you are just offered something outrageous for one of them.

I don't understand trading really your only great pitcher...if he wants to pitch with jake peavy go and get him...trade Lee for him...Oswalt in my opinion is to the astros as Dirk is for the Mavs untouchable because they absolutely need him

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by Pmoney
I don't understand trading really your only great pitcher...if he wants to pitch with jake peavy go and get him...trade Lee for him...Oswalt in my opinion is to the astros as Dirk is for the Mavs untouchable because they absolutely need him What's the difference?

We can keep him and continue to suck or we can get something for him and suck.


Roy O has lost his edge. Kinda like what happened to Lidge a few yrs ago.

[zebrablue2]

lidge did come back and win a world series ring last year. the knee was his problem. got it fixed, and was good as gold again. roy has a few good years left, but a 3 or 4 for 1 is what the astros need. berkman wants to be gone, you can tell by his attitude on the field..

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by zebrablue2
lidge did come back and win a world series ring last year. the knee was his problem. got it fixed, and was good as gold again. roy has a few good years left, but a 3 or 4 for 1 is what the astros need. berkman wants to be gone, you can tell by his attitude on the field.. I think Lidge needed a change of scenery more than anything. Houston just wasn't "right" anymore.


Roy isn't hurt.... he just has been giving up the gopher ball.


And I agree about Lance, and I say send him somewhere for a few good prospects.

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
And I agree about Lance, and I say send him somewhere for a few good prospects.

Berkman is definitely a bit of a pouter.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Keith7
the asstros are irrelevant without the silver boot.. :inlove:

[sahen]

i am pretty sure both berkman and lee have said they arent waiving their no trade clauses....oswalt is only waiving his if the situation is "right"...

Drayton is a buisness man, they are begging people to come to games this year (if you want to go to a game then sign up for emails from the astros, this week they put all their tickets 50% off if you bought them on monday)....he knows people come to the game to watch Berkman, Lee, Oswalt, Tejada, and Pence...the other guys notsomuch....if he is gonna trade he will try to get stuff for the other guys (of this group Wandy and Bourn have the most value) and will only take a deal for the big ones if it is ridiculously pointed in the Astros favor...

if we are building for the future then we should keep Wandy, Bourn, and Pence...get what we can for Tejada and one of Berkman/Lee/Oswalt and keep the other 2 (you cant sell the whole team off and expect people to go to the game and Drayton doesnt want to do a complete firesell)...however, what we will do is wait until about a week before the deadline, if we are within 10 game Drayton will consider us contending and do nothing, over 10 games he may trade 1 and over 15 then he made trade several...if we are within 5 Drayton will be a buyer not a seller...

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by sahen
i am pretty sure both berkman and lee have said they arent waiving their no trade clauses....oswalt is only waiving his if the situation is "right"...

Drayton is a buisness man, they are begging people to come to games this year (if you want to go to a game then sign up for emails from the astros, this week they put all their tickets 50% off if you bought them on monday)....he knows people come to the game to watch Berkman, Lee, Oswalt, Tejada, and Pence...the other guys notsomuch....if he is gonna trade he will try to get stuff for the other guys (of this group Wandy and Bourn have the most value) and will only take a deal for the big ones if it is ridiculously pointed in the Astros favor...

if we are building for the future then we should keep Wandy, Bourn, and Pence...get what we can for Tejada and one of Berkman/Lee/Oswalt and keep the other 2 (you cant sell the whole team off and expect people to go to the game and Drayton doesnt want to do a complete firesell)...however, what we will do is wait until about a week before the deadline, if we are within 10 game Drayton will consider us contending and do nothing, over 10 games he may trade 1 and over 15 then he made trade several...if we are within 5 Drayton will be a buyer not a seller... Why keep Wandy?

He's 30 y/o and having the best year of his career. There will definitely be a high demand b/c of how well he's performing and you can't expect him to do this agin next year.


I agree about what Drayton will do in those particular situations. Only thing is, we can't afford to be buyers anymore. We don't have the prospects to go out and get decent players.


I think Houston needs to go the Cincy route and get rid of the big contracts and come in with some fresh new faces, only thing is, we don;t have those young talented players they did.

[SintonPirateFan]

i dont think drayton will trade berkman... he wouldnt trade the last of the original "killer b's" (even drayton).
and besides, lance has always been a 2nd half of the season guy.

Tejada will be gone to an AL team by the deadline, hopefully we'll get decent pitching prospects for him.

even as far back as '04, it has been like pulling teeth to get runs scored. that was always roger the juiced rocket's complaint--no run support. let berk retire an astro, after he leaves, overhaul the whole organization.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
overhaul the whole organization. That will never happen. Drayton has always been a big name guy, not a rebuilding guy.

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by pirate4state
:inlove:

Notice how we all ignored that...:nerd:

[GreenMachine]

Trade Berkman, a career 300 hitter, because he started slow??? Ya'll people are crazy!!!!!!!

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by GreenMachine
Trade Berkman, a career 300 hitter, because he started slow??? Ya'll people are crazy!!!!!!! I didn't say trade him because he started slow.


I said trade him because we need youth and get something for the vets while they have value. Also, he acts like he isn't happy in Houston.



Our problem is Drayton wants so badly to be legit when I just don't think this old squad is gonna get it done with sub par pitching.

Astros do have the oldest roster in MLB.

[sahen]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
Why keep Wandy?

He's 30 y/o and having the best year of his career. There will definitely be a high demand b/c of how well he's performing and you can't expect him to do this agin next year.


i didnt realize wandy was 30, he looks like he is about 15 to me when he is out there...my bad instead of trading oswalt trade wandy, he coudl demand some good prospects if he continues how he is going....



truth be told though we arent going to trade anyone anytime soon...everyone knows we are gonna wait til july to make that decision (if they have paid attention to the astros inthe past 10-15 years) and Drayton is a guy that is a lot less likely to give up players than go get them...its very likely that we do little to nothing this year esp. if we are only 10 or so out of the wildcard/division...

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by sahen
i didnt realize wandy was 30, he looks like he is about 15 to me when he is out there...my bad instead of trading oswalt trade wandy, he coudl demand some good prospects if he continues how he is going....



truth be told though we arent going to trade anyone anytime soon...everyone knows we are gonna wait til july to make that decision (if they have paid attention to the astros inthe past 10-15 years) and Drayton is a guy that is a lot less likely to give up players than go get them...its very likely that we do little to nothing this year esp. if we are only 10 or so out of the wildcard/division... This is all true, but the saddest part is "if we are only 10 or so out of the wildcard/division."



:doh:

[BuckeyeNut]

:redxpoke:

[TexasHSFB]

Are 2 games over .500. That's their high water mark for this season.


They managed to get back to .500 at the all star break and have taken the first 2 in LA since coming back. (3-0, 8-1)

Anyway.... here's to hoping they make it 3 over .500.


How are the Rangers doing (since I know their fans will chime in)? I know at one point they were about 10 games over and leading their division. I'm not sure what their situation is like now.


Anyway, the Stros are 3 games out of the division and IDK how far out of the wild card. 2nd half push baby!

[Pmoney]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB
Are 2 games over .500. That's their high water mark for this season.


They managed to get back to .500 at the all star break and have taken the first 2 in LA since coming back. (3-0, 8-1)

Anyway.... here's to hoping they make it 3 over .500.


How are the Rangers doing (since I know their fans will chime in)? I know at one point they were about 10 games over and leading their division. I'm not sure what their situation is like now.


Anyway, the Stros are 3 games out of the division and IDK how far out of the wild card. 2nd half push baby!

I hope the Astros keep winning like they have been...They are 3.5 games behind San Francisco for the WC...and tied with the Cubs and Brewers for 2nd in the Central...I am hoping that Berkman's injury will only keep him out a few games...These next few games are extremely important: They need to at least win one of the final 2 games vs LA and then we have a home series vs the NL Central leader, the Cardinals...IF some how we can win the next 5 games we can will take the NL central lead

The Rangers are 2 games out of their division with a 48-40 record and they are 4 games back from the Yankees for the WC

[carter08]

i really don't care how close we are the 1st.

we need to trade some guys off. we need to rebuild, because there is nothing in the minors and only aging veterans on the big club.

i'd rather miss the playoffs the next few years and be a contender again by 2011 or 12 than try to win this year and end up in the cellar for years.

[griff]

On the matter of Carlos Lee, he'll never be traded because his contact is too big.

Drayton, both to his credit and to a fault, will never trade Oswalt or Berkman. These are the two most recognized players on the Astros club. In the past, he has put loyalty to players ahead of the prospect/risk of gaining players to help the club win. For that reason (and the players' marketability), he will never trade those two. He had a chance to trade Biggio to Colorado a few years before he retired, a move that could have helped the club both long-term and short-term, but he nixed the deal. This was the beginning of the end for Jerry Hunsicker. Hunsicker saw that Drayton's personal loyalty to Biggio was a road block to building a winner, and he left. Now, look what he's done with the Tampa Bay Rays - probably the worst franchise in baseball before he arrived - and they make the World Series last year. Drayton was too determined to have Biggio retire in an Astros uniform that he would never trade him - even if it would've made the Astros a stronger team.

Drayton is no doubt an American business success story. In a business like his food distribution company, where he made his success before buying the 'Stros, he could afford to reward his workers with longevity for their years of good work and service to that enterprise. But baseball is about winning, and Drayton has to be more willing to cut players loose for the sake of getting better.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by griff
On the matter of Carlos Lee, he'll never be traded because his contact is too big.

Drayton, both to his credit and to a fault, will never trade Oswalt or Berkman. These are the two most recognized players on the Astros club. In the past, he has put loyalty to players ahead of the prospect/risk of gaining players to help the club win. For that reason (and the players' marketability), he will never trade those two. He had a chance to trade Biggio to Colorado a few years before he retired, a move that could have helped the club both long-term and short-term, but he nixed the deal. This was the beginning of the end for Jerry Hunsicker. Hunsicker saw that Drayton's personal loyalty to Biggio was a road block to building a winner, and he left. Now, look what he's done with the Tampa Bay Rays - probably the worst franchise in baseball before he arrived - and they make the World Series last year. Drayton was too determined to have Biggio retire in an Astros uniform that he would never trade him - even if it would've made the Astros a stronger team.

Drayton is no doubt an American business success story. In a business like his food distribution company, where he made his success before buying the 'Stros, he could afford to reward his workers with longevity for their years of good work and service to that enterprise. But baseball is about winning, and Drayton has to be more willing to cut players loose for the sake of getting better. I couldn't agree more.:2thumbsup

[sahen]

Originally posted by griff
He had a chance to trade Biggio to Colorado a few years before he retired, a move that could have helped the club both long-term and short-term, but he nixed the deal. This was the beginning of the end for Jerry Hunsicker. Hunsicker saw that Drayton's personal loyalty to Biggio was a road block to building a winner, and he left. Now, look what he's done with the Tampa Bay Rays - probably the worst franchise in baseball before he arrived - and they make the World Series last year. Drayton was too determined to have Biggio retire in an Astros uniform that he would never trade him - even if it would've made the Astros a stronger team.

Rays = lost in the World Series
Astros = lost in the World Series

So Hunsicker got the Rays right where the Astros were....guy was a good GM and I wish we wouldnt have gotten rid of him but he hasnt done anything the Astros haven't done....

[sahen]

Originally posted by carter08
i really don't care how close we are the 1st.

we need to trade some guys off. we need to rebuild, because there is nothing in the minors and only aging veterans on the big club.


wow, if your winning then no you dont trade guys off now....we are close and if we were to click then we can get into the playoffs...anything can happen once you get there.....not to mention drayton aint stupid, the quickest way to piss your fans off is to start trading off players from a team that is in contention for the division...if you dont believe me just see the florida marlins...

[Maroon87]

The Astros are screwed because the NL Central is so mediocre this year...they're gonna be in the hunt all year so if they start a fire sale when they're 3 games out it sends a bad message to the fans.

If they were in the West and were 16 games out it would be much easier to sell that to the customers, but not now.

[catgut]

I've been an Astros fan for many many years but imo what they've let happen to this team is a shame. It all starts with the General Manager and goes all way down through the manager. ALL of them need to be gone. Wade is doing for us what he did for Philaladelphia and we won't win until he is gone.
There is no one on the team now that I wouldn't trade for some good young prospects. We don't have any in the farm system and have to get some somewhere!
The draft has been a bust the past few years so not a lot to look forward to.
Big difference in this team and the one I went to see in the World Series!

[griff]

Originally posted by sahen
Rays = lost in the World Series
Astros = lost in the World Series

So Hunsicker got the Rays right where the Astros were....guy was a good GM and I wish we wouldnt have gotten rid of him but he hasnt done anything the Astros haven't done....

My point is not so much about Hunsicker as it is about Drayton getting in the way.

[TexasHSFB]

Originally posted by sahen
Rays = lost in the World Series
Astros = lost in the World Series

So Hunsicker got the Rays right where the Astros were....guy was a good GM and I wish we wouldnt have gotten rid of him but he hasnt done anything the Astros haven't done.... Te Rays core of talent is about an average age of 24 or 25. Astros is over 30. The window of opportunity between the 2 teams is miles apart.


The Rays will make it to a few more WS if they keep that bunch in tact.

[sahen]

Originally posted by TexasHSFB


The Rays will make it to a few more WS if they keep that bunch in tact.

im willing to bet they wont....they are in a division w/ the yankees and red soxs...their chance was most likely last year and thats all they will get...

[sahen]

Originally posted by catgut
Wade is doing for us what he did for Philaladelphia and we won't win until he is gone.

yeah Wade was horrible in Philly...so bad that the year after he left they won the World Series and have some good young talent there that they are in contention again this year....heaven forbid we have that happen...


some people act like what the astros are doing is the end of the world..they ahve a chance to go to the playoffs this year so they are going to take the chance to win now....its pretty obvious the astros have resigned themselves to increasing their talent via the draft and doing what they can w/ the guys that are up there now...Wade has been there 1 year, hardly enough time to blame him for anything, esp when it comes to talent development...

but u said it yourself, and what a lot of fans think "big difference in THIS team and the one I want to see in the world series"...aka if this team wins then i still wont be happy cause they arent young....

[JasperDog94]

I'm reserving judgment on Wade right now. He hasn't done anything spectacular but he also hasn't been Purpura.;)

[griff]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I'm reserving judgment on Wade right now. He hasn't done anything spectacular but he also hasn't been Purpura.;)

My thoughts exactly.

I heard an interview with Drayton recently that gave me a shot of hope. In the interview, he actually said that Wade has repeatedly preached patience and building the farm system, and Drayton spoke as if he has come around to agree with that. He said his experience as a businessman has always been to achieve success now, but he now sees that you can't always do that in baseball.

I'm a little encouraged to see that the Astros no longer have the lowest rated farm system, even though they have a ways to go. Die hard Astros fans liike me should be willing to give Wade and the last two drafts time to pan out.