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SHSBulldog00
05-03-2009, 11:01 AM
El Campo Leader-News

UIL playoff rule change could hurt LISD budget
By CHRIS BARBEE cbarbee@leader-news.com

Class A football will be divided into two divisions before the season begins rather than at playoff time, the University Interscholastic League announced last week. The change takes effect during the 2010-2011 school year.

In Wharton County the change will affect the Class A Louise Hornets. Louise ISD Superintendent Andy Peter said Monday he voted against the plan because landing in the small division would mean longer trips for the Hornets and their fans, and more cost.

Class A schools with the largest enrollment will play in Division I, made up of 16 districts.

Schools with smaller enrollments will compete in Division II, which will also have 16 districts.

Each district will send two teams to the playoffs.

Currently, three football teams advance to the playoffs from each district. Once those teams are determined, the school with the largest enrollment among the three playoff teams goes into Division I, and the two remaining playoff teams play for post-season honors in Division II.

As is customary with major rules changes coming out of the UIL, superintendents were asked to vote their preference. The new system passed 203-65.

"I voted against it because of the travel," Peters said.

"I have not seen any preliminary looks at how it might look. But we are the smaller of our (district) teams now. am very worried that we might get put in that small division and they might want us to travel a couple hundred miles to Charlotte, Pettus and Runge. Coach (Mark) Stevens and I talked about it, and we were not for it," Peters said. He said he questions whether or not the superintendents understood what they were voting on. "I was surprised to see that vote count. Most of them grumble now about the travel we already do," he said. The ballot is done by mail and fax. The UIL mails out the ballot, and superintendents are asked to vote and fax their ballot in. Peters said the commissioner of education even signed off on this recommendation.

"If they move us out of our existing district we're looking at going toward San Antonio because there's nothing the other direction unless you go way the other side of Houston. And I don't see them doing that. But I could see them going back toward Woodsboro, Pettus and Falls City," Peters said.

He said the tricky part will be the population of 9th-12th graders in October, which are the numbers that will be used for district realignments. Realignments come out Feb. 1, 2010 at 9 a.m.

"We look good 9-12 for the most part, but overall, school-wise, we're low in the elementary area. That hurts us financially, not necessarily athletically. There's a million dollars difference between Ganado's budget and our budget because they have more little kids than we do. We're at 177 at high school and Ganado is at 190.

"But when they divide that line, where's that going to put us? Will we be with the Ganado, Flatonio, Shiner group, or are we going to be going the other way? Hopefully we'll hang in there and have enough kids to make it into our current district."

"I know we'll be grumbling a lot. Our academic and spring meet division is so big we go all the way to Thrall (north of Austin), and over to a charter school in Wimberly and a charter school in Katy. And every other year we go to Thrall for a track meet. But that's the UIL."

Peters said basketball is already done the way football will now be done.

"No one is thinking about the dollar bills to this thing. But they better start. It's going to get expensive. I can see my board saying let's get rid of a sport rather than putting pressure on people to control costs of playoff games. Nobody asks the price of a gym. Two coaches just get together and they get a gym. The gym in Sealy was $800, then you have to pay for officials and everything else," the superintendent said.

Peters said that the football district could be different than the volleyball district. And most of the cheerleaders are volleyball players. With the long distances, girls could have to decide if they want to be a cheerleader or a volleyball player.

"I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping we'll be in the big division. Otherwise we'll be traveling. Being in the small division is great for winning, but it's not fair on the budget and it's not fair on our parents traveling," the superintendent said.

SHSBulldog00
05-03-2009, 11:02 AM
Are they going to do this with every class?

There was talk.

Johnny Utah
05-03-2009, 11:15 AM
Louise used to be in the same football district with Granger, Bartlett, Milano, Thrall and Burton. They are used to it.

setxsports
05-03-2009, 11:56 AM
The Supers will vote this Summer on the other classifications..

cr180t
05-03-2009, 12:40 PM
THey just need to add 6 A and I think that would help.

captain d
05-03-2009, 05:35 PM
If they add a 6A, how do you think it would break down?

cr180t
05-03-2009, 06:24 PM
6A I think could make things better. if you add Div 1 3a and Div 2 does that not make 10 divisions. Our District would have been the same this year and only 2 schools get in the playoffs. If you add the 6 A you sould still be able to leave the Dsitricts together and take 3 one big and 2 small. sme format

Looking4number8
05-03-2009, 06:52 PM
I think all school should play teams close to them physically and not worry about the size of them. This would save lots of cash on travel expense.

captain d
05-03-2009, 07:53 PM
For us in West Texas, South Plains and in the Panhandle the travel is what it is. The problem is getting the Metro plex, Austin area, Houston area and San Antonio to agree. How do you sway those areas knowing so much political strength comes from them. Like it or not that affects the UIL decision making process?

cr180t
05-03-2009, 08:46 PM
I agree. Most of your metro plex areas could be in the 6A

STANG RED
05-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Looking4number8
I think all school should play teams close to them physically and not worry about the size of them. This would save lots of cash on travel expense.

And "THE WOOD" might actually make the playoffs again. :doh: :taunt: :D

LH Panther Mom
05-03-2009, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by STANG RED
And "THE WOOD" might actually make the playoffs again. :doh: :taunt: :D
:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: You think they could beat Early & Bangs? :hand: Naaaaaah!

STANG RED
05-03-2009, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: You think they could beat Early & Bangs? :hand: Naaaaaah!

No, but I think they might could slip into that 3rd slot. I didnt say they'd win the district. Gahhh. ;)

Looking4number8
05-04-2009, 07:12 AM
nm

sahen
05-04-2009, 02:58 PM
the problem in houston isnt houston isd itself...most of their high schools are 4a and small 5a....its the outlying suburbs who have the monster schools...North Shore (who is only monster cause they wont make 4a Galena Park any bigger), Humble, Kingwood, Pearland (should shrink with the opening of Pearland Dawson), some of the Cypress schools (they have like 8 or 9 they cant really do much more to shrink the schools), Katy (actually they may be small enough to not jump up to 6a now but they used to be massive, they have 4 newer schools in that district now), etc...

regardless those schools have large politcal clout but not as big of clout if you start adding up all the schools that are having to play school's twice their size in district every year around houston...in North Shore's district alone they are twice as big as the second largest school in the district (Baytown Sterling)...Pearland dominates their district with schools about half their size making up 3/4 of it or so...that is just 2 districts off the top of my head, others are similar...there are enough smaller 5as for this to pass in 5a if it was well received by the coaches but judging from the last time they tried to pass it there is something they dont like about it, whether that be travel (which is incredibly hard to believe in the metro areas of the state) or something else....

Twirling Time
05-04-2009, 09:00 PM
Adding a 6A can be done, and it won't change the landscape that much with the other classifications. But 3A, being right in the middle, would cease to exist as we know it today. The small 3As and big 2As of today would go into the new 3A, and the big 3As and small 4As of today would be in the new 4A.

Right now there are about 1,300 schools (I don't have an exact number) that play football in six classes — 1A-5A plus 6-man. There are 245 schools in 5A and the rest have about 200, give or take.

If you add a 6A, then you are splitting these schools seven ways, but you still have about 185 per class. So districting with a 6A wouldn't be any more of a headache than it already is with 3A, which is about this size already.

Now there are going to be schools in places like El Paso and the Valley that would be isolated, and that would be a problem. Maybe the solution to this is making schools like these one-school or two-school districts unto itself, and creating odd-numbered districts next to them so these teams could play them during bye weeks.

I could get a better grasp on it if I could find an overall UIL enrollment list that wasn't broken down by district — that just ranked the schools by size.

captain d
05-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I am telling you.The metro area schools are the hold up. Now we say the coaches don't want this but maybe they don't want it in the fashion it was presented. The supt's do the voting which is sent to the UIL and the reality is the UIL can and will do what they want. It is crazy! :confused:

sahen
05-04-2009, 10:29 PM
i think some of the prob w/ making a 6a is the fact that in 5a you are either a super 5a school w/ tons of kids (4000+)or a 5a school that has around 2500-3000...there really isnt a whole lot of inbetween...there really isnt enough super 5a schools to make a 6a for now....it'd be interesting to see where they draw the line for 5a Div 1 and Div 2...the way they have it now you have some districts sending schools with around 2500 kids to the Div 1 playoffs while others have so many massive schools they get a 3500-4000 kid school in the Div 2 playoffs....

Looking4number8
05-05-2009, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
The hold up is in West Texas, and rightfully so. You'd likely see Odessa Permian traveling to Ft Worth for district games.
Honestly, if you'd really like a 6a, then you should like the two-tier system. It's the closest they could come to a 6a without the hassells of making one. The way it is now, in 5a, schools play within their geographical districts like they always have, but once the playoffs start, we basically go to a 6a(5A-Div 1). The problems came in when the other classifications wanted two state champs too. It was never intended to be across the board, it was supposed to just be in 5a as a way of creating a 6a without the travel issues.

I agree with this but the wierd thing is if a school has 2500 students I can see how they can find 45 boys just as strong and competitive as a school with 4000. I dont think the larger school has that much of an advantage here. It is different in the smaller classes. In 3A it is tough for a school with 400 to have as many athletic boys as a school with 900. I could be wrong but that is what I think

sahen
05-05-2009, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Looking4number8
I agree with this but the wierd thing is if a school has 2500 students I can see how they can find 45 boys just as strong and competitive as a school with 4000. I dont think the larger school has that much of an advantage here. It is different in the smaller classes. In 3A it is tough for a school with 400 to have as many athletic boys as a school with 900. I could be wrong but that is what I think

the problem when you get into the larger schools is not having the athletic boys...sure when you have enough kids to be 5a (4a even) you have no problem putting out a football team....the thing is when you have 4000+ kids in your school your talent pool is twice as big as 2500 kid schools...2500 kid squads are typically not as fast and strong as 4000+ kid squads which is typically seen in the offensive and defensive lines...for example big bad joe from 2500 school plays offensive tackle and is a "beast"...at 4000 school big bad joe is still big and bad but he gets to play beside big bad sam that makes them nearly unstoppable for 2500 school who only has one big bad guy on their defensive line and 3 ok guys....the big difference in the 3a and 5a comparision is that smaller 3a schools dont typically have the depth to rotate like the smaller 5as which give them a shot against the 4000+ schools of the world; however, when its all said in done the smaller 5as are almost always at a disadvantage to start the game, they can win but its not an even fight typically....