Former 4A Teams Who Played Each Other In 4A

[Bullaholic]

How many former 4A, now 3A, teams played each other at least once in 4A? Which ones?

[Emerson1]

Former 3A played Gainesville the first year they moved up

[kepdawg]

Are you that bored?

Jasper and WOS played a few games against each other in 4A.

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
How many former 4A, now 3A, teams played each other at least once in 4A? Which ones?

If I understand your question correctly it would be a whole lot
of teams in West Texas.:thinking:

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
If I understand your question correctly it would be a whole lot
of teams in West Texas.:thinking:

Yep, Red---rehashing a little Texas HS football history, and maybe causing a flame of yesteryear to ignite somewhere along the way.

Maybe Sweetwater-Monahans would fit in this category?

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Are you that bored?

Jasper and WOS played a few games against each other in 4A.

It's gettin' pretty bad, kep---"horse shampoo" is the big thread so far today...:D

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
It's gettin' pretty bad, kep---"horse shampoo" is the big thread so far today...:D

Good point!

Oh, Jasper and Bridge City played in 4A also.

[waterboy]

Gilmer and Carthage were in the same 4A district in the '98 - '99 realignment. Gilmer won both district games during that time......but Carthage got it's revenge this past season when they ousted the Buckeyes in the Region 3 finals 31-28.:(

[SWMustang]

Sweetwater Vs Monahans, Pecos, Snyder...

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by SWMustang
Sweetwater Vs Monahans, Pecos, Snyder...

Andrews...Ft. Stockton...Lamesa...


All these teams are interchangeble.

[ASUFrisbeeStud]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Andrews...Ft. Stockton...Lamesa...


All these teams are interchangeble.

Big Spring, Brownwood, Sweetwater, Snyder there are alot in West Texas.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Andrews...Ft. Stockton...Lamesa...


All these teams are interchangeble.

Did Big Spring or San Angelo ever get in that mix?

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by waterboy
Gilmer and Carthage were in the same 4A district in the '98 - '99 realignment. Gilmer won both district games during that time......but Carthage got it's revenge this past season when they ousted the Buckeyes in the Region 3 finals 31-28.:(

Never realized that---this is the kind of a "pearl" that I hope this thread digs up.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Did Big Spring or San Angelo ever get in that mix?

yeah - big spring was in the same district with Sweetwater et al after they dropped from 5A. This was back in the late 80's into the 90's.

[Matthew328]

I forgot Big Spring was 5A in the 1980s...now they'll probably be 3A next realignment

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Did Big Spring or San Angelo ever get in that mix?

Big Spring was 5A and part of the "Little Soutwest Conference".
Then they dropped to 4A in the late 80's. I don't know if they've
ever been 3A. If so it was probably in the 50's or something and
we wouldn't have been 3A back then.

I think Lakeview has always been 4A. I could be wrong. I spoke
to a Lakeview coach that was scouting our game a week before
we played them about five years ago. He said he didn't see the
Chiefs moving up or down anytime soon.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Sinton and Robstown 4a in the early 80's

[95mustang]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Big Spring was 5A and part of the "Little Soutwest Conference".
Then they dropped to 4A in the late 80's. I don't know if they've
ever been 3A. If so it was probably in the 50's or something and
we wouldn't have been 3A back then.

I think Lakeview has always been 4A. I could be wrong. I spoke
to a Lakeview coach that was scouting our game a week before
we played them about five years ago. He said he didn't see the
Chiefs moving up or down anytime soon.

i Believe the district back in the 80's and early 90's looked something like this:
Andrews, Big Spring, Monahans, Sweetwater, San Angelo Lake View, Fort Stockton, and Pecos.

Big Spring and Lake View are the only ones still 4 A, but last I heard Big Spring is losing kids on a steady pace.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by 95mustang
i Believe the district back in the 80's and early 90's looked something like this:
Andrews, Big Spring, Monahans, Sweetwater, San Angelo Lake View, Fort Stockton, and Pecos.



Can't forget Snyder

oh - and Odessa Ector until '83 I believe.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by 95mustang
i Believe the district back in the 80's and early 90's looked something like this:
Andrews, Big Spring, Monahans, Sweetwater, San Angelo Lake View, Fort Stockton, and Pecos.

Big Spring and Lake View are the only ones still 4 A, but last I heard Big Spring is losing kids on a steady pace.

Levelland and Lamesa came in and out of that mix a few times back then as well.

When I played, our district was Sweetwater, Snyder, Lakeview, Lubbock Estacado, Lubbuck Dunbar, Lamesa, Brownfield, and Graham. We were all 3A back then, but that was when 4A was the biggest classification, and B schools and 8 man were classifications between 1A and 6 man. Now I'm feeling really old.

[Bullaholic]

Of those old 4A rivalries, what were the most most intense then? now?

[bwdlionfan]

Brownwood lost to Andrews 24-17 in 1993 in the 3rd round of the 4A playoffs. That same week, Stephenville knocked out Sweetwater 46-21. The next week Andrews fell to Stephenville 17-7. That was Sville's first state title. Rumors have floated Sville could have 3A numbers in a few years.

[bwdlionfan]

Brownwood and Wichita Falls Hirschi have some history of playing in the 4A playoffs and are now both 3A. From 1980-1998 the two teams met in the playoffs 6 times, Brownwood won the first 3, Hirschi won the last 3. The last one, in 1998 Brownwood led 21-0 at half and self destructed to lose 23-21 in Abilene thus Brownwood curse at Shotwell stadium was born. Hirschi went on to lose to Stephenville and Stephenville won state, going 15-1, their lone loss was in district against Brownwood.

[WOS87]

Without calclulating it exactly I would say close to half of the current 3A teams have played in the 2nd largest classification in the modern era at some time in the past. That includes Class 3A members from 1951-1979 and Class 4A from 1980 to present.

Here are the years current Region I and Region III 3A schools competed in the 2nd largest classification:

Region I

Borger 1976-2001
Wichita Falls Hirschi 1964-1973, 1978-2003
Snyder 1952-1971, 1974-2001
Brownwood 1951-2007
Andrews 1956-2005
Levelland 1954-2003
Sweetwater 1951-1999
Pecos 1956-2001
Lamesa 1951-1987, 1990-1997
Burkburnett 1963-2005
Lubbock Estacado 1968-2007
Monahans 1956-1995
Fort Stockton 1962-1999
Fredericksburg 1966-1987, 1994-2007
Vernon 1951-1983, 1986-1987
Graham 1951, 1956-1981, 1986-1987, 1996-1997
Brownfield 1956-1983
Gatesville 1962-1981
Breckenridge 1951-1954, 1956-1969
Seminole 1960-1977
Perryton 1962-1977
Iowa Park 1971-1983
Fabens 1998-2005
Clint 1998-2005
Burnet 2004-2007
Hillsboro 1968-1969

Region III

West Orange-Stark 1986-2003
Palestine 1951-1967, 1974-2003
Silsbee 1956-1968, 1970-2003
Waco La Vega 1956-1970, 1972-1977
Athens 1956-2005
Carthage 1956-2001
Jasper 1960-2001
Bridge City 1962-1999
Taylor 1966-1997, 2002-2005
Tyler Chapel Hill 1970-2001
Cleveland 1966-1983, 1986-1997
Liberty 1964-1989
Navasota 1968-1981, 1992-2001
Center 1956-1957, 1960-1979
Gladewater 1951-1953, 1956-1959, 1970-1973, 1978-1981
Gilmer 1968-1979, 1996-1997
Waco Connally 1974-1983, 1996-1997
Rockdale 1968-1975
Mexia 1968-1975
Crockett 1970-1977
Hardin-Jefferson 1972-1975, 1996-1997
Cameron Yoe 1956-1957, 1972-1973
Brownsboro 1996-1997
Huffman Hargrave 2006-2007


Sorry Region II and IV folks... haven't compiled all those stats yet!

[WOS87]

Seven of the above actually competed in the Largest Classification at some point in the modern era (4A from 1951-1979 and 5A from 1980 to present)

WO-S, Dallas Roosevelt and Zapata are the only current 3A teams that have ever competed in 5A UIL competition (largest classification since 1980)... and Zapata opted to move up in classification due to travel concerns. I don't believe they ever actually had a 5A enrollment.

Borger 1951-1975
Wichita Falls Hirschi 1974-1977
Snyder 1972-1973
West Orange-Stark 1977-1985
Palestine 1968-1973
Silsbee 1969
Waco La Vega 1971

[wildstangs]

Sad to see what has become of those West Texas towns. There are barely enough 4A teams in West Texas/Panhandle (excluding El Paso) to fill two districts these days. One of them has Plainview and San Angelo Lakeview in the same district, thats how spread out it is.

[WOS87]

Originally posted by WOS87
Without calclulating it exactly I would say close to half of the current 3A teams have played in the 2nd largest classification in the modern era at some time in the past. That includes Class 3A members from 1951-1979 and Class 4A from 1980 to present.


Actually it looks like more than half of the current 3A teams have played in a higher classification in the past as there are 50 teams combined from Regions I and III in the list above. Extrapolating that out statewide that would put an estimate of 100 out of 177 3A teams having played in a larger classification in the past.

[Matthew328]

realignment will be very interesting in Feb.....with the economy slow down a lot of the newer schools in the suburbs won't have quite the enrollment many expected...Stephenville should stay 4A they are seeing a small upward trend....their # will be closer to 1100

[WOS87]

Originally posted by Matthew328
realignment will be very interesting in Feb.....with the economy slow down a lot of the newer schools in the suburbs won't have quite the enrollment many expected...Stephenville should stay 4A they are seeing a small upward trend....their # will be closer to 1100

How are La Marque and Calallen looking? Rumor has it that both have a chance of dropping, and given the current 3A geography if that were to happen Calallen would definitely be Region IV and La Marque would have a good chance of going South rather than East as well.

With each realignment, the current 3A is becoming more and more similar to the old 4A 20 years ago. The 4A State Champs of 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1989 have already dropped down to 3A (Sweetwater, WO-S, Paris and Tyler Chapel Hill).

Both La Marque and Stephenville are on the verge which would bring 7 of the 14 (D1 and D2) 4A Champs of the 1990's into the fold.

[Matthew328]

Things get real murky at the 3A-4A cut....5A cut is fairly easy to pick with the solid 245 #....it gets real dicey after that...I think both stay 4A this go round unless the 3A-4A cut off is like 1050 ish....Calallen was over 1200 last realignment...LaMarque is a bit of a mystery at 1128 so they could be in the realm....

[WOS87]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Things get real murky at the 3A-4A cut....5A cut is fairly easy to pick with the solid 245 #....it gets real dicey after that...I think both stay 4A this go round unless the 3A-4A cut off is like 1050 ish....Calallen was over 1200 last realignment...LaMarque is a bit of a mystery at 1128 so they could be in the realm....

Both La Marque and Texas City's enrollments should drop in the wake of Hurricane Ike as the enrollment numbers in both Orange and Jefferson Counties dropped across the board after Rita in the '06 realignment.

[Matthew328]

Thats the mystery with LaMarque is the Ike effect....will be interesting to watch....

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Things get real murky at the 3A-4A cut....5A cut is fairly easy to pick with the solid 245 #....it gets real dicey after that...I think both stay 4A this go round unless the 3A-4A cut off is like 1050 ish....Calallen was over 1200 last realignment...LaMarque is a bit of a mystery at 1128 so they could be in the realm.... we were seeing some development prior to the slowdown, don't know how much Calallen has been effected. I think if we drop that is 4 years down the road.

[j_dog]

In 4a, Jasper played:

District:
Silsbee
WOS
Bridge City
Liberty
Cleveland

Navasota (football playoffs)

There are probably more, but this is a start.

[SHSBulldog00]

In the late 90's

Sweeny
Needville
West Columbia

all competed in 24-4A.

I can't remeber about Wharton?

[WOS87]

Originally posted by SHSBulldog00
In the late 90's

Sweeny
Needville
West Columbia

all competed in 24-4A.

I can't remeber about Wharton?

Definitely Wharton, WO-S beat them in the playoffs in 1987

[SHSBulldog00]

If La Marque were to drop to 3A their diistrict would look something like this:

La Marque
Needville
Stafford
Sweeny
West Columbia
Wharton

Brookshire Royal would probably go back to 2A although their numbers are increasing yearly.

Cal Allen would be in with West Oso if the Wildcat's move down.

[HEMOTOXIC]

Navasota:

Palestine
Tyler Chapel Hill
Carthage
Jasper
Cleveland
Wharton
West Columbia


Im sure that there were more back in the day: 60's, 70's, possibly 80's.

[Twirling Time]

In the Dallas area most schools are on the way up as opposed to on the way down, but there are a few former 4As: Gainesville (until 1992), Bonham (until 1982), Paris and North Lamar (until last year).

Dallas Madison was 5A until the early 1990s. And Zapata is the only case I know of where a team dropped two classes in one go.

[Buckeye1980]

When I played at Gilmer in late 70's , we were in 3a which was the next to largest classification at the time , so would be 4-A now ...district was

7-AAA
Gilmer (now 3A)
Daingerfield (now 2A)
Jefferson (now 2A)
LE (now 3A)
Atlanta (now 3A)
Pittsburg (now 3A)
Mt Pleasant (now 4A)
Sulphur Springs (now 4A)

So of the 8 teams ,only 2 remain in 3A.

The district I remember most was in mid 80's, and I may not have it completely right but close

Gilmer
Pitt
Daingerfield
Jefferson
Gladewater

All were in same district for 2 years , and all had made deep runs in playoffs the previous 2 years, district was a murderer's row!

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
How many former 4A, now 3A, teams played each other at least once in 4A? Which ones?

Abilene Wylie vs Brownwood!

oops!

I keeping forgeting we are still 3A!

:D





:p






;)

[bwdlionfan]

Originally posted by garciap77
Abilene Wylie vs Brownwood!

oops!

I keeping forgeting we are still 3A!

:D





:p






;)

Helps when administration knows how to juggle numbers ;)

[garciap77]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
Helps when administration knows how to juggle numbers ;)
:tisk:

[arges]

Surprised no one mentioned Cuero and Gonzales. They both played San Antonio Sam Houston in the early '60's in district 14-AAA. 13-AAA had LaGrange, Edna, Yoakum, Columbus, Sweeny and others. Other Region 4 teams that played in what is now 4A are Pearsall, Crystal City, Carrizo Springs, West Oso, Sinton, Aransas Pass, Falfurrias, and Raymondville.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by arges
Surprised no one mentioned Cuero and Gonzales. They both played San Antonio Sam Houston in the early '60's in district 14-AAA. 13-AAA had LaGrange, Edna, Yoakum, Columbus, Sweeny and others. Other Region 4 teams that played in what is now 4A are Pearsall, Crystal City, Carrizo Springs, West Oso, Sinton, Aransas Pass, Falfurrias, and Raymondville.

The early 60s? How old do you think we are?

[95mustang]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
Brownwood lost to Andrews 24-17 in 1993 in the 3rd round of the 4A playoffs. That same week, Stephenville knocked out Sweetwater 46-21. The next week Andrews fell to Stephenville 17-7. That was Sville's first state title. Rumors have floated Sville could have 3A numbers in a few years.

I played for Andrews back then. I honestly thought Brownwood was the tougher team even though Stephenville was able to beat us.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by 95mustang
I played for Andrews back then. I honestly thought Brownwood was the tougher team even though Stephenville was able to beat us.

Did you play with Keith Brooks, or was he just ahead of you? That guy was one great athlete. Saw him pretty much beat Sweetwater almost single handedly on time. Heck, nobody could catch him.
Come to think of it, he played in the early 80s. Is he still around Andrews, or do you even know him? Heard he got in a bit of trouble way back, but I cant remember what happened. Seems like it cost him a full ride scholarship to Tech though.

[95mustang]

I know some of his family. Do not know him personally. I am not sure where he is at in the world today. He was a tremendous talent and could have gone far but off the field antics side lined him. I do not get to Andrews anymore. Haven't been back for about 5 years. I can't say enough good things about the school system though and with their recent upgrades to the stadium (that is one heck of a field house) they appear to still be top notch. I do hope to see them back on the winning side of things. When Coach Stapler came to Andrews he built a winning program and since his retirement it has slowly degressed.

Now I am a supporter of BROWNWOOD BROWNWOOD BROWNWOOD.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by 95mustang
I know some of his family. Do not know him personally. I am not sure where he is at in the world today. He was a tremendous talent and could have gone far but off the field antics side lined him. I do not get to Andrews anymore. Haven't been back for about 5 years. I can't say enough good things about the school system though and with their recent upgrades to the stadium (that is one heck of a field house) they appear to still be top notch. I do hope to see them back on the winning side of things. When Coach Stapler came to Andrews he built a winning program and since his retirement it has slowly degressed.

Now I am a supporter of BROWNWOOD BROWNWOOD BROWNWOOD.

Andrews has always had a top notch school system. So I've never understood why or how their football program dropped so far so fast. But it does look like their beginning to get things turned around finally. As for your support of Brownwood now, all I can say is, I'm sorry. :p

[westtxfballfan]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Did you play with Keith Brooks, or was he just ahead of you? That guy was one great athlete. Saw him pretty much beat Sweetwater almost single handedly on time. Heck, nobody could catch him.
Come to think of it, he played in the early 80s. Is he still around Andrews, or do you even know him? Heard he got in a bit of trouble way back, but I cant remember what happened. Seems like it cost him a full ride scholarship to Tech though.

Brooks played DB at SMU in the early 80s when they were good (pre-death penalty.) He finished up at Andrews about 82 or so. Preceded by another good one out there in Andrews named Van Pearcy, who played at Notre Dame.

[WOS87]

Originally posted by Twirling Time

Dallas Madison was 5A until the early 1990s.

I'm pretty sure Dallas Madison has never competed in 5A. They did compete in the largest classification back in the late '60's and the entire decade of the '70's which would have been 4A at the time. They remained 4A when the 5A classification was first started in 1980 and were in the district with Athens, Corsicana and Ennis in the 1980 realignment.

[WTF-82]

Dang- Monahans,Andrews,Sweetwater used to have some serious wars back in the 4a days Snyder was there Pecos,Lamesa,Ft. Stockton add in now 4a Big Spring and Lakeview. AND YOU HAVE THE TRUE LITTLE SWC.

MONAHANS,SWEETWATER,ANDREWS,BIG SPRING,SNYDER
LAKEVIEW,PECOS,FT STOCKTON, THESE WERE THE BIG DOGS SPECIALLY IN THE 80'S AND EARLY 90'S SNYDER AND LAMESA WERE NOT ALWAYS IN THIS SAME DISTRICT BUT THEY WERE THERE MOSTLY
1993 DISTRICT 3-4A WAS FUN at one point in the season 4 teams were in the ap top 10 or had enough votes to be considered in the top 15-20 Andrews,Sweetwater,Monahans,Big Spring Andrews lost in quaterfinals 14-10 to eventual state champion Stephenville Sweetwater won the whole thing in 85 and made many December Football runs as did Monahans and Big Spring had a couple in 88 and 89.
I will always remember the 1989 Quaterfinals between Big Spring and Monahans district rivals who made it to play again in December Steers won it on a 65 yard td pass late in the game on 4rth and 20 conversion our Lobo DB patted the ball away and it landed on a Big Spring players hands in the end zone, final was 20-19 standing room only at Midland Memorial Stadium this game was one of the west texas great ones.

[WTF-82]

Originally posted by ***-82
Dang- Monahans,Andrews,Sweetwater used to have some serious wars back in the 4a days Snyder was there Pecos,Lamesa,Ft. Stockton add in now 4a Big Spring and Lakeview. AND YOU HAVE THE TRUE LITTLE SWC.

MONAHANS,SWEETWATER,ANDREWS,BIG SPRING,SNYDER
LAKEVIEW,PECOS,FT STOCKTON, THESE WERE THE BIG DOGS SPECIALLY IN THE 80'S AND EARLY 90'S SNYDER AND LAMESA WERE NOT ALWAYS IN THIS SAME DISTRICT BUT THEY WERE THERE MOSTLY
1993 DISTRICT 3-4A WAS FUN at one point in the season 4 teams were in the ap top 10 or had enough votes to be considered in the top 15-20 Andrews,Sweetwater,Monahans,Big Spring Andrews lost in quaterfinals 14-10 to eventual state champion Stephenville Sweetwater won the whole thing in 85 and made many December Football runs as did Monahans and Big Spring had a couple in 88 and 89.
I will always remember the 1989 Quaterfinals between Big Spring and Monahans district rivals who made it to play again in December Steers won it on a 65 yard td pass late in the game on 4rth and 20 conversion our Lobo DB patted the ball away and it landed on a Big Spring players hands in the end zone, final was 20-19 standing room only at Midland Memorial Stadium this game was one of the west texas great ones.
Sorry my andrews and stephenville score is wrong

[j_dog]

Originally posted by j_dog
In 4a, Jasper played:

District:
Silsbee
WOS
Bridge City
Liberty
Cleveland

Navasota (football playoffs)

There are probably more, but this is a start.
Add for Jasper:

Wharton
West Columbia

I forgot they are now in 3a.

[WOS87]

For WO-S it would be:

Bridge City
Jasper
Silsbee
Wharton
West Columbia
Paris :(
Brownsboro

We have a winning record against all but one