Where Did those Guns Come From?

[ronwx5x]

Seems some of our government officials and spokespersons may be feeding us a little bad information about Mexico's troubles and our assistance with it! The story relates to statistics showing that 90% of illegal guns seized in Mexico originate in the U.S. This story is from today's Fox News. I can't post the story as it very clearly states not to, but here is the link. It is a little long, but worth the read.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

[Reds fan]

That is enlightening, to say the least!

[Old Dog]

What more would you expect......AND, with horriffic things like that idiot in New York pulled earlier today our days as a truely free nation may be numbered.

[Trashman]

You knew that it had to be something like that! It just makes more CENTS that you could get guns into Mexico easier through the back door than the front.:rolleyes:

[sinton66]

All statistics can be twisted to make them indicate whatever one wants. Change a word here, omit a word there, and there you go.
They were telling the truth, just not the WHOLE truth because the WHOLE truth didn't suit their purpose.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by sinton66
All statistics can be twisted to make them indicate whatever one wants. Change a word here, omit a word there, and there you go.
They were telling the truth, just not the WHOLE truth because the WHOLE truth didn't suit their purpose.

Could it be just ignorance? Looks like one of those self-feeding rumors that just grew into fact with retelling. If they deliberately told the same lie over and over they surely knew they would be caught sooner or later!?

There is no cure for dumb.

[sinton66]

No, they knew what they were doing. I've known several people in my lifetime that were experts at this. Leave a word out here and there and change the entire meaning of the original content.

[Old Dog]

Millions of people in this country don't question anything politicians or newspapers spout. Many of our hard fought rights are being swept away slowly and steadily by the sin of omission (NOT telling the whole story----therefore lying)................

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by sinton66
All statistics can be twisted to make them indicate whatever one wants. Change a word here, omit a word there, and there you go.
They were telling the truth, just not the WHOLE truth because the WHOLE truth didn't suit their purpose.

How do you know this story is true? Do you think it is hypocritical to say that everyone else is not telling the truth because it doesnt suit their purpose and cite a news story from a famously right wing media outlet and say that they are correct? I know you are smarter and less naive than that Tony. If you want to find the facts then look yourself. Dont leave it up to FOX to skew your judgement by writing a story to suit their purpose.

:rolleyes: :)

[PPHSfan]

Gotta take a minute to pray.

Oh Lord please let the DownLow and myself live long enough that I may watch as my young friends transform from very smart to very wise as they age. It will be so rewarding to watch them as they move from left to right as time goes by. Please nourish the passion that they hold in their hearts and allow it to spread into their brains as the years go by, so they too can see the light.

Amen

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by rockdale80
How do you know this story is true? Do you think it is hypocritical to say that everyone else is not telling the truth because it doesnt suit their purpose and cite a news story from a famously right wing media outlet and say that they are correct? I know you are smarter and less naive than that Tony. If you want to find the facts then look yourself. Dont leave it up to FOX to skew your judgement by writing a story to suit their purpose.

:rolleyes: :)

A very similar story is in the Houston Chronicle and I assure you the Chronicle is not a "famously right wing media outlet". Seems like statistical skewing can be reported by both left and right. It also appeared in foreign news reports, i.e. The London Daily Mail.

Unlike Sinton66, I think it was a case of a bad report gaining traction in retelling. Hillary Clinton is smart enough to know that if she tells a deliberate lie she will be caught.

[sinton66]

Unlike you, Jesse, I've lived among people who are experts at distorting the truth. I've been victimized by it on more than one occasion,.and now I can usually recognize it when I come upon it regardless of the source.

When you've lived as long as I have, you will cease to be surprized by ANYTHING our elected "representatives" come up with. I can tell you this for certain, if you blindly put your trust in them, you WILL get screwed over sooner or later.

[sinfan75]

One statement made sense. Why would drug cartels buy rifles and semi-autos in the U.S. when they can get fully autos, RPGs on the black market.

[PPHSfan]

The best weapons are made in the US. Anyone ever shot a gun made in Mexico? LOL

[sinton66]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
The best weapons are made in the US. Anyone ever shot a gun made in Mexico? LOL

I know a few ex-military guys who believe strongly in the Russian AK-47. There are LOTS of those on the black market.

[mwynn05]

The reason this stat is "true" is because at crimes scenes in mexico they rarely ever even try to find the origin of these guns...at least thats what i saw on cbs news regardless of your political feelings it seems pretty plausible to me

[sinton66]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Unlike Sinton66, I think it was a case of a bad report gaining traction in retelling. Hillary Clinton is smart enough to know that if she tells a deliberate lie she will be caught.

Do you honestly think any of them really care if they're caught telling a lie? "Plausible deniability" happens when one can say "I quoted a published fact", even if it was out of context.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by sinton66
Do you honestly think any of them really care if they're caught telling a lie? "Plausible deniability" happens when one can say "I quoted a published fact", even if it was out of context.

I absolutely believe they care if they are caught in a lie. Not because of morals necessarily, but because of the ridicule they receive. It would require a fool to not care, and like them or not, most are far from foolish.

There are exceptions of course. Read about Randy "Duke" Cunningham. And Sinton66, years don't necessarily make us any smarter. I assure you I am older then a 1966 graduation from high school and I don't purport to be smarter than I ever was. More confused, maybe. I have learned one thing though, and that is I don't know nearly enough most times.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
I absolutely believe they care if they are caught in a lie. Not because of morals necessarily, but because of the ridicule they receive. It would require a fool to not care, and like them or not, most are far from foolish.

I totally agree they are not fools. I honestly believe they don't CARE what any of us think of them. They have become experts at telling us what we want to hear in order to get re-elected and then do what they want anyway. It doesn't matter which party is in charge, they BOTH do it.

Wisdom is different from knowledge, and it only comes from life experience. If you DON'T gain wisdom with advancing age, you ain't paying attention.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by sinton66
I totally agree they are not fools. I honestly believe they don't CARE what any of us think of them. They have become experts at telling us what we want to hear in order to get re-elected and then do what they want anyway. It doesn't matter which party is in charge, they BOTH do it.

Wisdom is different from knowledge, and it only comes from life experience. If you DON'T gain wisdom with advancing age, you ain't paying attention.

I attribute the fact that I get confused by all the information I receive to being smart enough to know I don't know all the answers. I have opinions, but that's not necessarily wisdom.:thinking:

I have lived in many different places and known all kinds of people. They aren't any wiser, just get set in their ways. I'm still searching for answers. Maybe I want too much, wanting to know the correct answers.

I'm like you, no fan of politicians, but they are what we have to work with and I usually just hope we get the least bad! I think they often believe they can do more than is possible. Reality soon dawns on them and they sooner or later just go with the flow. Isn't that how our present administration got elected?

[sinton66]

Present and all past ones going back to about the sixties.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by sinton66
I know a few ex-military guys who believe strongly in the Russian AK-47. There are LOTS of those on the black market. horrible stability, that gun climbs like chimp on a tree when fired. Reading some 1st hand accounts of encounters with it by our troops the common experience was that the gun typically fired high because of this. Of course when on fully automatic you can spray a large area, but very little except for the weapons carried by Euro spec ops can compare to what we produce. Royal Marines carry some sweet weapons. Those guy are THE TRUTH!!!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Gotta take a minute to pray.

Oh Lord please let the DownLow and myself live long enough that I may watch as my young friends transform from very smart to very wise as they age. It will be so rewarding to watch them as they move from left to right as time goes by. Please nourish the passion that they hold in their hearts and allow it to spread into their brains as the years go by, so they too can see the light.

Amen Ah the right, where religion is perversed into hate! :)

[Pick6]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Ah the right, where religion is perversed into hate! :)

Ah the left, always taking shots with no facts.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
Ah the left, always taking shots with no facts. lmao the right always disregarding the facts except when it suits them! :)

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by DDBooger
horrible stability, that gun climbs like chimp on a tree when fired. Reading some 1st hand accounts of encounters with it by our troops the common experience was that the gun typically fired high because of this. Of course when on fully automatic you can spray a large area, but very little except for the weapons carried by Euro spec ops can compare to what we produce. Royal Marines carry some sweet weapons. Those guy are THE TRUTH!!!


the old saying is..first shot center mass, second shot above the head third shot it becomes a anti-aircraft weapon

[Pick6]

Originally posted by DDBooger
lmao the right always disregarding the facts except when it suits them! :)


Who distorted the facts in the story that this tread is about? It's shameful that the left has to twist eveything to fit there needs and most of the left followers can't make up their own mind.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
Who distorted the facts in the story that this tread is about? wasn't speaking about the facts of that matter, but someone using prayer to demean someone, hence my response! lol not too quick on the uptake?


Originally posted by Pick6
It's shameful that the left has to twist eveything to fit there needs and most of the left followers can't make up their own mind. haha glad you responded, I was wondering if the guy who sniped the 3 cops was you, because he was afraid they were coming for his guns, what you get when people play off the fears of the "self thinking" right! LOL haha I bet you call yourself a Christian and you're the same animal who was bemoaning the death of someone ACCUSED of dealing drugs that happened to be friends of some members! Class is two letters more than, well, YOU KNOW! ;)

[sinton66]

Originally posted by DDBooger
horrible stability, that gun climbs like chimp on a tree when fired. Reading some 1st hand accounts of encounters with it by our troops the common experience was that the gun typically fired high because of this. Of course when on fully automatic you can spray a large area, but very little except for the weapons carried by Euro spec ops can compare to what we produce. Royal Marines carry some sweet weapons. Those guy are THE TRUTH!!!

Well, unlike the M16, the AK47 didn't usually warp the barrel from repeated rapid fire (according to my Marine Recon older brother). Many early VietNam soldiers picked up extra M16 barrels over there just because of this reason even though they weren't supposed to.

[DDBooger]

Ak-47's popularity was due to how cheaply it could be made and easily manufactured, UNLICENSED. Hell, the gunmakers in Afghanistan are making their own Ak's. Battle of Mogadishu, had the militia's been carrying American or European grade weaponry, we would have buried half if not 3/4ths of those troopers. Our concentration on marksmanship and short burst fire rather than erratic shooting (learned from Vietnam) really paid off that day. Despite losing 18 men, it could have been exponentially worse. I tell you what gun is making a comeback, and I wish I owned one, is the M-14. GREAT WEAPON!

[sinton66]

Originally posted by DDBooger
wasn't speaking about the facts of that matter, but someone using prayer to demean someone, hence my response! lol not too quick on the uptake?

haha glad you responded, I was wondering if the guy who sniped the 3 cops was you, because he was afraid they were coming for his guns, what you get when people play off the fears of the "self thinking" right! LOL haha I bet you call yourself a Christian and you're the same animal who was bemoaning the death of someone ACCUSED of dealing drugs that happened to be friends of some members! Class is two words short of well, YOU KNOW! ;)

I want to caution all of you to NOT start calling each other names. If you can't discuss the subject here calmly, it'll get shut down and other things can happen.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by sinton66
I want to caution all of you to NOT start calling each other names. If you can't discuss the subject here calmly, it'll get shut down and other things can happen. my apologies s66 and p6! I may believe I'm right, but not above the LAW (Segal style :) ) I do appreciate the opinions and love to have people argue rather than always agree! :) I'm done with it, but you should have warned a while back when they were taking potshots, not after I responded, but, that's my opinion!

[DDBooger]

ak-47 did have better stopping power if it hit what was intended compared to the m-16. Largest complaints when they went from the m-14 to the m-16 was the lack of "knock down" power. You could put one bullet through the "cong" and he'd be out of the fight, where as a m-16 took multiple shots not counting head or heart shots, which in the canopy jungle took luck in finding them and then not being shot yourself. Drawbacks of the m-14 was the weight, but man was it a pretty weapon.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by DDBooger I bet you call yourself a Christian and you're the same animal who was bemoaning the death of someone ACCUSED of dealing drugs that happened to be friends of some members! Class is two letters more than, well, YOU KNOW! ;) [/B]

You're right, I'm a proud Christian. I'll be leaving here in the next 30 mins to head to church. I never said that person should of died. I said in my opinion he wasn't a good person if he was dealing drugs. That has nothing to do with this thread. It's just another way for your to change facts to help your argument.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
You're right, I'm a proud Christian. I'll be leaving here in the next 30 mins to head to church. I never said that person should of died. I said in my opinion he wasn't a good person if he was dealing drugs. That has nothing to do with this thread. It's just another way for your to change facts to help your argument. an argument I wasn't making, again, your failure to see what I responded to and what you are responding to. Not rocket science, more like hold your hand, page by page, hope you understand what I'm talking about! ha And figured as much, you condemn someone you don't know, and consider yourself a Christian, ask for forgiveness! ;)

[Pick6]

Originally posted by DDBooger
an argument I wasn't making, again, your failure to see what I responded to and what you are responding to. Not rocket science, more like hold your hand, page by page, hope you understand what I'm talking about! ha And figured as much, you condemn someone you don't know, and consider yourself a Christian, ask for forgiveness! ;)

I don't consider myself a Christian, I AM a Christian. As a Christian I have to see some of the bad in people so I can pray for them. It looks like I'll pray for you all week. :thinking:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
I don't consider myself a Christian, I AM a Christian. As a Christian I have to see some of the bad in people so I can pray for them. It looks like I'll pray for you all week. :thinking: hahahaha Thanks for the prayers pard! ;)

[sinton66]

Originally posted by DDBooger
my apologies s66 and p6! I may believe I'm right, but not above the LAW (Segal style :) ) I do appreciate the opinions and love to have people argue rather than always agree! :) I'm done with it, but you should have warned a while back when they were taking potshots, not after I responded, but, that's my opinion!

Even though it was you I quoted, I said I wanted to caution ALL of you. Potshots aside though, No one called you an "a**". The point is that is exactly how threads get out of hand and get closed down with discipline meted out. If left unchecked, it becomes a game of "one upsmanship" and detracts from the original subject. This is also one of the main reasons we don't allow political/religious discussion. A lot of folks can't discuss politics/religion without turning it into a personal attack.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by sinton66
Even though it was you I quoted, I said I wanted to caution ALL of you. Potshots aside though, No one called you an "a**". The point is that is exactly how threads get out of hand and get closed down with discipline meted out. If left unchecked, it becomes a game of "one upsmanship" and detracts from the original subject. This is also one of the main reasons we don't allow political/religious discussion. A lot of folks can't discuss politics/religion without turning it into a personal attack. hey! I didn't call him one, I left it up to interpretation! point made and understood ;)

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Pick6
I don't consider myself a Christian, I AM a Christian. As a Christian I have to see some of the bad in people so I can pray for them. It looks like I'll pray for you all week. :thinking:

Is it Christian to judge? Is it Christian to think you are better than someone? Just saying that something smells like hypocrisy....

:thinking: :thinking:

Back to the topic at hand:

Tony, what does my age have to do with anything? Does my age mean I dont question the statements of FOX? Or CNN? I suppose if Bill O'Reilly says it, then it must be true... At what age do I become enlightened to the ways of the conservative party? What is going to make me come across the aisle and vote differently than I do now? I like to think that I am smart enough and wise enough to vote based on the beliefs of the candidate and how those beliefs align with my own personal beliefs on issues. Do I think your FOX article was spot on? Not a chance, but I dont believe the answer lies at the opposite end either. I think (as with most issues) that the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Is it Christian to judge? Is it Christian to think you are better than someone? Just saying that something smells like hypocrisy....

:thinking: :thinking:


Last post on this, yes it is Christain to judge to a point. How else does one decide if another needs prayers or help. Some people are to proud to ask for help. Your judgement will determine if you help that person. Where is the hypocrisy at? I never said I was better than any one and never said you have no right to judge me.

That's all I've got to say about this on this thread.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Pick6
Last post on this, yes it is Christain to judge to a point. How else does one decide if another needs prayers or help. Some people are to proud to ask for help. Your judgement will determine if you help that person. Where is the hypocrisy at? I never said I was better than any one and never said you have no right to judge me.

That's all I've got to say about this on this thread.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1).

[Pick6]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1).


For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged (Matthew 7:2)


Meaning however I judge you, you can judge me.

We will all be judged by Christ one day weather we judge one another or not.

Let's take it up in PM's if we are going to continue these thoughts.

[SintonFan]

Everyone everyday judges everything around them. It is normal to do so. Anyone who says they don't are ignorant on the most basic level.
I love arguing with the left. They hold the highest card, after all. All other opinions(views) besides their own are judged to be lesser than their own. But that isn't really judging, it is a communal agreement in their higher thought. They ALL agree they know better than us all...:nerd: :doh:

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Everyone everyday judges everything around them. It is normal to do so. Anyone who says they don't are ignorant on the most basic level.
I love arguing with the left. They hold the highest card, after all. All other opinions(views) besides their own are judged to be lesser than their own. But that isn't really judging, it is a communal agreement in their higher thought. They ALL agree they know better than us all...:nerd: :doh:


this from the guy that thinks Global warming is a lie...sneaky sneaky...

Ignore the evidence and listen to the gospel and your buddies at FOX......

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by rockdale80
this from the guy that thinks Global warming is a lie...sneaky sneaky...

Ignore the evidence and listen to the gospel and your buddies at FOX...... HAHA

:)

[sinfan75]

I'm sure ya'll seen the full auto shotgun? Fires any shotgun shell (I think) and they even got miniature RPGs you can fire out of it. pretty darn accurate too watchin it on the military channel. Forgot how many rps it shoots but pretty stout weapon for clearin out builings I believe.

[sinfan75]

I don't think he believes global warming is a lie. He just doesn't believe it's being caused by man. I for one believe the sun has gotten hotter but at the same time there was a report that for the past 5 years the earths average temp has gotten cooler. So make your own conclusions. By the way has Al Gore turned his mansion green yet and started driving electric SUV's and flying gliders to his global warming speaches yet? He's gotta be the leader in the "no fossil fuel department".

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by sinfan75
I don't think he believes global warming is a lie. He just doesn't believe it's being caused by man. I for one believe the sun has gotten hotter but at the same time there was a report that for the past 5 years the earths average temp has gotten cooler. So make your own conclusions. By the way has Al Gore turned his mansion green yet and started driving electric SUV's and flying gliders to his global warming speaches yet? He's gotta be the leader in the "no fossil fuel department".


Gehh...Life is tOugh, huh? BAbies! Liers!
WAnnabees...
ReMINd me now...
ask your great-grandfathers and great-Grandmothers what "tough" really was...
there IS A reason why those foLks horded toIlEt paper!

Read the CAPS...

And I agree about Gore. ;)

[sinton66]

Getting off track again......

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
this from the guy that thinks Global warming is a lie...sneaky sneaky...

Ignore the evidence and listen to the gospel and your buddies at FOX......
.
:p
I don't watch FOX, unless the Cowboys are playing.:inlove:

[sinton66]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
:p
I don't watch FOX, unless the Cowboys are playing.:inlove:

Me either.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by sinton66
Me either.
.
Did you notice a certain arrogance in a typical leftist response? See we can't actually think for ourselves...
we have to have Fox News tell us how to think.
How "tolerant" their point of view is...:D
lol

[sinton66]

Yeah, I've been noticing for a long time, lol.