What do you think it takes to win a state title??

[RHCat1031]

I want to ask everyone in here this question. Everyone has a different opinion. I'm talking about all HS TEAM and INDIVIDUAL SPORTS.

What do you think it takes to win a state title?

[goosealaniz]

it takes determination and heart to win... also practice wouldnt hurt

[jockcity33]

Talent and discipline.

[Keith7]

Clear eyes, full hearts

[PutMeInCoach]

Unselfishness...putting the team before your own personal needs, goals, or agendas.

[crzyjournalist03]

You have to be both good and lucky.

[bobcat4life]

Hard work, dedication, a will to win, performing to your best, a lil bit of luck, and some fire in your stomach.

[Corn Cob]

Originally posted by RHCat1031
I want to ask everyone in here this question. Everyone has a different opinion. I'm talking about all HS TEAM and INDIVIDUAL SPORTS.

What do you think it takes to win a state title?
Not being from the Valley!:)

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by Keith7
Clear eyes, full hearts
can't lose?

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by Corn Cob
Not being from the Valley!:)

:lies: :lies:

OMG....Tell me you didn't just go there. LOL. Bring it on Corn Pops.

Actually, valley teams did admirably in the playoffs, but unfortunately our teams just got beat. Plain and simple.

Leaves room for improvement.

How have your teams done in recent years Corn Cob??

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Two things every championship team has, and the only two you can't substitue for, are talent and luck. Everything else, you can do without or substitue something else for, but if you're not talented and not lucky, you have no chance.

I agree with that to a point.

I believe that it takes PREPARATION MEETING OPPORTUNITY and DEVELOPED TALENT.

Up until a few years ago, Liberty Hill was only a 3 or 4 round team...I could be wrong.

Then they exploded for two consecutive state titles. And this past season reached the semifinals....

So I do agree with this comment....to a point.

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Liberty Hill has had a run of great athletes lately. The two years they won state championships, they were lucky in the sense that they didn't have any key injuries, some of the teams they played weren't at full strength(Giddings 2006), and thanks to other playoff teams there were teams they didn't have to play that probably would have beaten them. Im not taking into account all of the instances when luck was on their side during a game(officals' calls, good bounces, etc...).
Now, before someone from LH decides to jump on me(I was just using them as an example b/c you used them first. I could have used Prosper, Carthage, Celina, Southlake, or anyone) and tell me how they just have so much more heart than everyone else, outwork everyone, etc...let me say that this is the case with EVERY STATE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM! You can't win one unless you have great athletes and luck on your side. There's too many great teams. The best season Ive ever been a part of was a 15-0 season. The worst season was 5-6. The biggest difference between the two seasons was luck(we had alot of it when we went 15-0).

I see your point.

[Rabid Cougar]

Having taken part in a State Championship at Cameron in 1981 then observing my son's team go to State in 07 and Quarterfinals in 08, I will tell you without a shadow of dought it is a lot "how the ball bouces", "luck", carma what ever you want to call it. YES, athletes and preperation put you in the position, but I can still point to a play/s or a call in 1981 and 07 and 08 in that if it/they had gone differently (which they could have easily done) there would have been very different outcomes.

Bounce of the ball. 07 CS Team. LaVega Regional Finals. Slant pass bounces off Hick's face mask and falls to the ground just inches from LaVegas LBs outstretched fingers. CS scores on same series and wins. Celina State Finals. Slant pass bouces off Hick's face mask and into Celina DB's arms. We know the outcome of that game.

Yes, woulda coulda shoulda but I can point to two plays in 1981 that without the plays being executed properly, the other teams reacting in a certain manner, and the coach knowing when to call that particular play and having confidence in his players to execute it, a combination of multiple variables falling just right.

I also say that team chemistry has a lot to do with it. 07 Cougars were not near as talented as 08 but they had better chemistry and better since of "team". Thus 07 pulled out games (LaVega) that 08 probably would not have and did not (Wylie).

[jason]

you need talent, the ability to take advantage of that talent, and a little luck....


give me a team of talented athletes over a team with 'heart' any day.....

[Rocket Dad]

80% talent, the rest is a combination of staying injury free, luck, team chemistry, coaching moves, belief.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
Having taken part in a State Championship at Cameron in 1981 then observing my son's team go to State in 07 and Quarterfinals in 08, I will tell you without a shadow of dought it is a lot "how the ball bouces", "luck", carma what ever you want to call it. YES, athletes and preperation put you in the position, but I can still point to a play/s or a call in 1981 and 07 and 08 in that if it/they had gone differently (which they could have easily done) there would have been very different outcomes.

The play/s or calls in 1981....they wouldn't happen to be some that happened in the semi-final game with Port Isabel by chance?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Two things every championship team has, and the only two you can't substitue for, are talent and luck. Everything else, you can do without or substitue something else for, but if you're not talented and not lucky, you have no chance.


I agree. The more talent you have the less luck you need and the more luck you have the less talent you need. Funny how that works.

[PPHSfan]

It starts with great coaching, and ends with great coaching. The most important part of a championship team is a disciplined defense. Talent is important, as is athleticism and speed. The teams with the most championships all have a common thread. Great Coaching and Elite Defenses.

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Disagree with this 100%. The era of "defense wins championships" is over. Yes, defense is important, but championship teams being led by defense is the exception now, rather than the rule. Your defense just needs to be able to keep you in the games, offense is usually what wins it.
Most HCs who two platoon will you tell you they put their top 5 athletes on offense, the next 11 on defense, and the next 6 on offense. The one year we didn't do this, we under achieved greatly.

I'll take the best defense in the league and beat the best offense 9 out of 10 times year in and out.

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I'll take the best defense in the league and beat the best offense 9 out of 10 times year in and out.

I am a fan of DEFENSE myself. Mainly, because defense creates OPPORTUNITIES by way of turnovers. And giving the ball back to the offense to score more points.

I'd take a 2-0 win in any game anyday....but a 40+ point win would be nicer. :)

[Keith7]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I'll take the best defense in the league and beat the best offense 9 out of 10 times year in and out.

Lets ask the Baltimore Ravens how having the best defense has helped them...

Seriously there is one thing that all state champions have now-a-days...

That thing is speed.... With practically every team running the spread now the best thing to over come that is speed.. for a team to succeed now they have to be fast across the board

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by Keith7
Lets ask the Baltimore Ravens how having the best defense has helped them...

Seriously there is one thing that all state champions have now-a-days...

That thing is speed.... With practically every team running the spread now the best thing to over come that is speed.. for a team to succeed now they have to be fast across the board

True.

[kaorder1999]

How many points did Sulphur Springs give up in the state title game this year?

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
.

SS gave up 49 in the title game, and gave up over 30 points in 5 games.

thats what i thought....

[Trashman]

50% luck, 25% coaching and 25% skill.

[bobcat4life]

Coaching and the will to win are the most important. If not, why does Celina have 8 titles. I say 50 percent is coaching, desire/hardwork etc. is 30% and skill is 20% of the equasion.

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
B/c Celina has great athletes and some incredible lucky breaks, just like Southlake Carroll did during their 5 year run. Success breeds success. Will to win means just about nothing. There are very few HS football teams that want to win less than Celina.

One thing I noticed from successful teams is how the talent is developed into elite status....

Southlake was one of the first to use a specific training program called SPARQ.

Meant to develop and increase speed,agility,and quickness.

Sure they were good in 4A, but that training program is ONE OF THE REASONS they became a 5A power. Among other things.

They executed "Dodgeball" to near perfection.

Celina,IMO, is about old-school SMASHMOUTH football. Period.

They're not going to get fancy, but they will impose their will on their opponents....and it's worked for them so far. 8 state titles speaks for the program itself.

[Rabid Cougar]

Originally posted by TarponFanInNorthTexas
The play/s or calls in 1981....they wouldn't happen to be some that happened in the semi-final game with Port Isabel by chance?

No. I would have to say three plays.
1. Bumaruski against Manor to make the score 13-14 Manor
2. Two point conversion against Manor to win the game 15-14
3. Swing pass and incredibly determined run on 4th and 4 against Newton. RB got hit 6 times and made the first by one yard. Allowed to continue the series to make tieing penetration (5-5) in a 28-28 tie. Won the game on first downs 18-13

Port Isebel was way over rated. All the talk about their defense giving up only 25 points all year, so we scored on the first play of the game for good measure and won 25 to 14.

Against PI they show up in 10 man front to stop the Wing T Roger 28 Sweep which we ran the first play of the game EVERY game. (Scored first play in 6 games). We were going to run it but we jumped. Coach called same formation but for Fake Sweep and hit the back side TE going down the middle of the field. There was no one with 30 yards of him when he caught the pass. Nice 75 yards TD to start the game. Which goes back to COACHING!

By the way, if you can pass out of Wing T/Slot T in makes it that much more nastier... TEs and Wing backs score lots of TDs.

[WylieBulldog92]

Wins.

[Matthew328]

coaching is overrated....its important but its all about the kinds of kids you have...if you have a bunch of lazy kids who dont work you aren't going to be a good team....kids have to have at minimum above average talent (and to win state you need very good talent) combined with a will to win and poise under adversity (because you will see some adversity)

defense is good but now days it about having a great offense...ETB mentioned the 2008 champs and Sulphur Springs was VERY average on D....in fact they were below average but they had a red hot QB and playmakers on offense combined with a good OL....in fact they'd kick multiple onside kicks per game because they knew they couldnt' stop people.....

[OldNavy]

Originally posted by Matthew328
coaching is overrated....its important but its all about the kinds of kids you have...if you have a bunch of lazy kids who dont work you aren't going to be a good team....kids have to have at minimum above average talent (and to win state you need very good talent) combined with a will to win and poise under adversity (because you will see some adversity)

defense is good but now days it about having a great offense...ETB mentioned the 2008 champs and Sulphur Springs was VERY average on D....in fact they were below average but they had a red hot QB and playmakers on offense combined with a good OL....in fact they'd kick multiple onside kicks per game because they knew they couldnt' stop people.....

Coaching overrated... then Gordon Woods and G. A. Moore were just lucky they always had better athletes. I have seen a few of those teams and know that is not true. They coached football and made average athletes into better than average football players. When they had great athlets they made it look easy.

Defense is good... If offense was all you need then why didn't Brownwood win state, or district in fotball this year?

When was the last time you heard about all the speed the Celina Bobcats have? It is all about coaching, if you want to have a consistently successful program. I think you have to have a good offense, defense, and special teams. You may play teams who are better in one area but not in the others and guess what, with the right coaching you win. Great coaching and great players and you go undefeated!

[RHCat1031]

So from what I'm gathering from this topic is that overall....it takes different aspects to come together to win a state title.

Great coaching,Great Talent,Great Commitment and Dedication,Great TEAM chemistry, Great community support(volunteers and funding.)

This is what I've thought all along. Of course we all have our opinions.

From what I read in a book once...I think it was one from humankinetics. A winningest coach from Pennsylvania stated," In order, for our program to succeed we had to sell our program to the players,parents,and overall community of what we were doing was to win."

Permian,Celina,Southlake,etc do have that "formula" in place.

Just my two cents.

[IHOP 75]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Liberty Hill has had a run of great athletes lately. The two years they won state championships, they were lucky in the sense that they didn't have any key injuries, some of the teams they played weren't at full strength(Giddings 2006), and thanks to other playoff teams there were teams they didn't have to play that probably would have beaten them. Im not taking into account all of the instances when luck was on their side during a game(officals' calls, good bounces, etc...).
Now, before someone from LH decides to jump on me(I was just using them as an example b/c you used them first. I could have used Prosper, Carthage, Celina, Southlake, or anyone) and tell me how they just have so much more heart than everyone else, outwork everyone, etc...let me say that this is the case with EVERY STATE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM! You can't win one unless you have great athletes and luck on your side. There's too many great teams. The best season Ive ever been a part of was a 15-0 season. The worst season was 5-6. The biggest difference between the two seasons was luck(we had alot of it when we went 15-0).

Does anyone remember who liberty hill lost to in the playoffs in 2003?

[IHOP 75]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Disagree with this 100%. The era of "defense wins championships" is over. Yes, defense is important, but championship teams being led by defense is the exception now, rather than the rule. Your defense just needs to be able to keep you in the games, offense is usually what wins it.
Most HCs who two platoon will you tell you they put their top 5 athletes on offense, the next 11 on defense, and the next 6 on offense. The one year we didn't do this, we under achieved greatly.

You want to talk about the here and now? Yeah, the SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS this year just had the most tremendous, spectacular, record breaking, high scoring, finess, flawless, most undeniably greatest offensive show on turf this year, right? WRONG!!!!!! We saw that in the CHAMPIONSHIP of CHAMPIONSHIPS that the #1 Defense in the league DEFEATED the #1 offense in the league to win the world CHANMPIONSHIP.

[wimbo_pro]

Besides Celina, no one remembers who Liberty Hill lost to last...except me!!!

[LHexPlayer]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Besides Celina, no one remembers who Liberty Hill lost to last...except me!!!

And we wish you would forget. Although you might want to hold onto that memory. You might not get a chance to see a game like that with us again. Oh and I think it was Port Isabel in 2003.

[wimbo_pro]

Oh hush LHex.

[IHOP 75]

Originally posted by LHexPlayer
Oh and I think it was Port Isabel in 2003.

;) ;) ;) ;)

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by IHOP 75
;) ;) ;) ;)

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by OldNavy
Coaching overrated... then Gordon Woods and G. A. Moore were just lucky they always had better athletes. I have seen a few of those teams and know that is not true. They coached football and made average athletes into better than average football players. When they had great athlets they made it look easy.

Defense is good... If offense was all you need then why didn't Brownwood win state, or district in fotball this year?

When was the last time you heard about all the speed the Celina Bobcats have? It is all about coaching, if you want to have a consistently successful program. I think you have to have a good offense, defense, and special teams. You may play teams who are better in one area but not in the others and guess what, with the right coaching you win. Great coaching and great players and you go undefeated!


Celina folks kill me, you guys ALWAYS undersell your team....YES GA Moore and Gordon Wood had good athletes across the board all the time....they might not have had the big time individual athletes others had but 1-11 they put some GOOD kids out there....Celina won't throw out any 4.4 kids very often but they have skill kids who run 4.'6's and they have lineman who can move....thats every year too....Celina's kids are always strong and fast they are NOT unathletic....Brownwood always has good athletes also .....you think GA Moore or Gordon Wood could win at a place like Huntington or maybe FW Diamond Hill??? NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It all comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's....coaching plays a factor but bottom line is you gotta have the kids to get it done....

As for defense its not as important now as it used to be....there are always exceptions to the rule but especially in 4A and 5A the teams who win it are more often than not high scoring teams who sling it around...

Southlake Carroll
Allen
Cedar Hill
Lake Travis
Sulphur Springs
Highland Park
Denton Ryan
Ennis

A few of the recent state champs in the bigger classes who were more offensive oriented teams...football has changed, defense is still a factor but in the end you gotta be able to score points as offense in this day in age is ahead of the defenses for the most part..

[I_DONT_CARE]

Originally posted by IHOP 75
;) ;) ;) ;)
WHAT HAS PORT ISABEL DONE SINCE 2003??? :thinking:

[dslonel]

You can win state with good overall team speed, solid coaching, and a D1 running back. Gatesville 2000 did just that.

[RHCat1031]

Originally posted by I_DONT_CARE
WHAT HAS PORT ISABEL DONE SINCE 2003??? :thinking:

In their defense, they've had a few bad apples infiltrate their program the past couple of seasons. They went two deep in '07.

They do on the other hand, have some size and speed for this season's team.

They got a kid named Kyle Demoss at QB.
Passed for 1,100 yds. They got a big and strong RB named Joe Vega. Got a BIG O-line coming back too.

Offensively, they appear set. Defense is another story.

[sic'em]

you could comprise a staff of GA Moore, Gordon Wood, Sam Harrell, and Todd Dodge and have them work at Venus HS, and they'd still go 0-10. You could take the Carlos Stone(the last HC at Venus that I know of, dont know who's there now), and make him the HC at Celina, and they'd still win a ton of games. Yes coaching is important, but a great coach has an average record without great athletes.

i have always agreed with this to an extent. its about to be tested in Aubrey next year. GA has never had a losing season in 42 years of coaching.
i think coaching is important to the degree that the staff is able to instill the desire to work. some towns/schools already possess this without the coach, others need a coach to bring it to them, other towns like Venus won't be able to motivate the kids to work despite how hard they try. Coach Moore has always been in towns of the first two types. Even though Sherman was 0-10 when he got there, they would do what it took to win.
as far as x's and o's go, the scheme is more important than in game play calling, as is luck...

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Celina folks kill me, you guys ALWAYS undersell your team....YES GA Moore and Gordon Wood had good athletes across the board all the time....they might not have had the big time individual athletes others had but 1-11 they put some GOOD kids out there....Celina won't throw out any 4.4 kids very often but they have skill kids who run 4.'6's and they have lineman who can move....thats every year too....Celina's kids are always strong and fast they are NOT unathletic....Brownwood always has good athletes also .....you think GA Moore or Gordon Wood could win at a place like Huntington or maybe FW Diamond Hill??? NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It all comes down to the Jimmy's and Joe's....coaching plays a factor but bottom line is you gotta have the kids to get it done....

As for defense its not as important now as it used to be....there are always exceptions to the rule but especially in 4A and 5A the teams who win it are more often than not high scoring teams who sling it around...

Southlake Carroll
Allen
Cedar Hill
Lake Travis
Sulphur Springs
Highland Park
Denton Ryan
Ennis

A few of the recent state champs in the bigger classes who were more offensive oriented teams...football has changed, defense is still a factor but in the end you gotta be able to score points as offense in this day in age is ahead of the defenses for the most part..

But see you miss the point. The reason those kids perform is the coaches they have. The coaches get more out of those kids because
A) The kids know their coaches are great and buy into what the coaches sell them.
B) The coaches are good at their positions and put their kids into the right spot to create plays.
C) The coaches coach old school in this "modern era" and still win running the ball and playing defense( the year of 2005 where we gave up 7.5 points a game stands to mind right away).

So it is GA and Butch and what they teach and stand for. Anybody that wants to take away from the winningest coach in highschool football history is just wacked.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Apples and oranges. Every NFL team has world class athletes, so that goes out the window. Every NFL team runs approximately the same plays and schemes, so it's not coaching either(I said APPROXIMATELY). Honestly, I have no idea how to win in the NFL. It's a completely different ball game. Besides, did Arizona really have the #1 offense?
But, this thread says nothing about winning a super bowl, it asks about winning a state championship, which is something I do know a little about.
As for coaching, Ive said this before; you could comprise a staff of GA Moore, Gordon Wood, Sam Harrell, and Todd Dodge and have them work at Venus HS, and they'd still go 0-10. You could take the Carlos Stone(the last HC at Venus that I know of, dont know who's there now), and make him the HC at Celina, and they'd still win a ton of games. Yes coaching is important, but a great coach has an average record without great athletes.

Jerry Jones tried to make that point with the Dallas Cowboys and lost. Bzzzzz... wrong anwser. Coaching matters greatly and anybody who says different lives in lala land. Great coaches know how to get their boys to perform. Period.

It is the coach who decides who plays where and what and what schemes fit his talent. This year Celina proved that. We had a weak Defensive line when the season started but somehow we stepped up and played well enough to make it to the state game.
Those boys figured it out why because of the coaches.

Now if you cannot get the heart and attitude right then coaching does not help that much. You have to have heart. Coaches Coach Players play. That is true. But great coaches become great because they get their players to play day in and day out. You do not become great losing plain and simple.

[RHCat1031]

Here's a look at PI this past season. They had some size and talent...they just couldn't get it goin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmpHB9j-m0

[Hill Man]

Originally posted by LHexPlayer
And we wish you would forget. Although you might want to hold onto that memory. You might not get a chance to see a game like that with us again. Oh and I think it was Port Isabel in 2003.

and just barely... LH fumbled the ball inside the PI 15 with 2 minutes left which would have tied the game.

PI had some speed on that team I recall..

[BEAST]

1) Talent
2) Coaching
3) Offseason
4) Willing to work hard in the summer.
5) Talent



Thats my top 5.




BEAST