OverRated

[eagleqb_14]

who is the most overrated player in the NBA:confused:

[Emerson1]

Garnett

[eagleqb_14]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Garnett i agree

[coach]

durant..jk uh tracy mcgady

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by eagleqb_14
who is the most overrated player in the NBA:confused:
.
Carmelo

[turbostud]

Dirk Nowitzki

[turbostud]

Amare Stoudamire.

[SintonFan]

oooooooo
Nice.
Problem with that is Dirk isn't rated that high to begin with.
j/k Mav fans.:D

[forum_guy]

garnett?? are u serious..no way in hell

[forum_guy]

i cant really narrow it down to one but a couple on the top of my head...arenas(not so much anymore with the injuries), baron davis

[RedStorm]

Lebron James. Before you call me crazy...he is great and only second to Kobe currently but he is terribly overhyped as MJ.

[Farmersfan]

I would vote Dirk. I am a Mavs fan and am constantly amazed that Cuban thinks Dirk is the go-to man. He would be a great asset as a second option or third option. The Overrated part comes from the idea that everyone talks about Dirk's skill set being unusual for a 7ft player. True dat! But that would be significant if he had 7ft player skill sets also. but he doesn't. He is a 7ft'er who plays like a much smaller player. How is that a benefit in a "big mans" game? At this point in his career I would not rank him in the top 20 players in the NBA. And his stock drops every time he disappears in big games. If he continues his stock will be lower than Romo's..........................(if that's possible) :D

[cshscougar08]

No way on Garnett. I personally don't think he is very hyped up to begin with so obviously he can't be overrated if he's not that hyped. I am going to agree with Dirk and say that Chris Bosh is also overrated.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by RedStorm
Lebron James. Before you call me crazy...he is great and only second to Kobe currently but he is terribly overhyped as MJ.


philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here????

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here????

While I believe that MJ is the greatest of all time, couldnt your arguement apply to him also?

[jockcity33]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
While I believe that MJ is the greatest of all time, couldnt your arguement apply to him also?

I would have to say no you could not apply that whole statement to MJ, remember MJ was cut from his HS team his 9th grade year. I seriously doubt that Lebron has ever been cut. MJ really came into his own while at NC and then really exploded once he got into the league. Lebron has always been the elite.

[jockcity33]

I think Shaquille is the most overrated player. get him more than arms reach from the basket and he can't score unless he knocks you out of the way then dunks, why is that not a charge in the NBA?

[crzyjournalist03]

Dwayne Wade

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here????

There are probably several guys who are "6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" and who never develop into a LeBron James. The difference may well be a desire and work ethic. Granted, LB has natural ability but if he never worked to develop his ability I doubt he would be the player he is.

My point is that natural talent can only take an athlete so far. He/she has to be willing to work to become the best they can. Could LB be even better if he worked harder? I can't answer that one, but I have doubts he could be much better than he now is. Just MHO.

[DUKE22]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here???? I think you can be born with athletic ability, you know as a result of genetics. However, you cannot be born skilled. A basketball player is not born, or football, or baseball whatever. You have to work and develop the skills needed to play at a high level. I think Lebron is very very skilled as well as being a freak.

[DUKE22]

Originally posted by RedStorm
Lebron James. Before you call me crazy...he is great and only second to Kobe currently but he is terribly overhyped as MJ. I think Kobe is still on top, but barely. The torch is close to getting passed. I would still take Kobe in the 4th qtr and that is what is the difference in my opinion.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by forum_guy
garnett?? are u serious..no way in hell

How long have you been a Laker fan?

[forum_guy]

right when they got shaq in 1996 when i was 9 years old but how does that have anything to do with thinking garnett is not over rated...lol..and yes when i was really little i kinda liked the magic just because of shaq so i followed shaq to the lakers

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here???? You act like he could of sat on his butt everyday of his life and he would be 6'8 260 and have a great vertical. Sure the guy has a lot of natural ability but you don't put the muscle he has on without hitting the weight room and I guarantee you if he never did anything he wouldnt have the jumping ability he has.

Your underestimating Lebrons court vision, toughness, and anticipation of what is going to happen to make plays. Those are 3 things he has just about as good as anybody in the league.

Jordan was a more skilled offensive player and a better defender and Lebron is a better ahtlete but how can you say Jordan wasnt an elite athlete. I guarantee you MJ was one of the top 5 if not top natural athletes in his NBA days. The getting cut from high school story doesn't hold any water when your talking natural athletic ability at the NBA level. Some guys mature earlier than others and Jordan just matured kind of late but by the time he hit his NBA prime he was an extremly athletic player.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
While I believe that MJ is the greatest of all time, couldnt your arguement apply to him also?


MJ wasn't a superior physical specimen to his peers. He wasn't taller, heavier or faster ect ect..... He was basically a average NBA player for his position. Labron is physically better than 99% of his peers.

[forum_guy]

lebron James is not MJ...Lebron James is Lebron James....

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by jockcity33
I think Shaquille is the most overrated player. get him more than arms reach from the basket and he can't score unless he knocks you out of the way then dunks, why is that not a charge in the NBA?

Excellent point. Shaq is a perfect example of what I am saying about Labron but a little more exaggerated. If you take Labron's skills and put them into a player who is 6'4" and 200 lbs is he a star? Not a chance. He will be good but not a superstar. This is why I believe that REAL basketball skill comes from the smaller players. Iverson is probably the pound for pound best player in the history of the game. (even though I dislike him). Any other ideas on that one?

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Excellent point. Shaq is a perfect example of what I am saying about Labron but a little more exaggerated. If you take Labron's skills and put them into a player who is 6'4" and 200 lbs is he a star? Not a chance. He will be good but not a superstar. This is why I believe that REAL basketball skill comes from the smaller players. Iverson is probably the pound for pound best player in the history of the game. (even though I dislike him). Any other ideas on that one? You can't say that because the guy is a completly different player if he is 6'4 200 he would of developed his skill set completly different. AI isnt the greatest pound for pound sure he puts up a lot of points but he has never shot a good percentage and never won big.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by forum_guy
right when they got shaq in 1996 when i was 9 years old but how does that have anything to do with thinking garnett is not over rated...lol..and yes when i was really little i kinda liked the magic just because of shaq so i followed shaq to the lakers

Laker fans never say anything nice about "THOSE GUYS", especially Garnett, Gangsta P, a wannabe thug like Perkins or DA Danny Ainge. If you're going to be a Laker fan it would be good for you to show a healthy level of hate and disgust for anything or anyone associated with the Leprechauns.

I guess maybe since you weren't around for the 80's match-ups between the two you might not understand why you should have a high level of animosity for "THOSE GUYS"...Hopefully you'll catch on like many of the other younger Purple and Gold fans have over the last year and a half.

[Emerson1]

Lebron is the player he is because of his size. He is an average shooter at best.

37% from 2 point range
30% from 3 point
72% in the lane
20% of his made shots are dunks

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DUKE22
I think you can be born with athletic ability, you know as a result of genetics. However, you cannot be born skilled. A basketball player is not born, or football, or baseball whatever. You have to work and develop the skills needed to play at a high level. I think Lebron is very very skilled as well as being a freak.

I agree 100%. Lebron is a skilled player. But is he any more skilled than say 75% of NBA players? I vote no. But the skill he does have is so effective because of his physical stature. Shaq had very little actual skill (when compared to othe NBA players) but will mostly be considered one of the best centers in the history of the game. Dirk is another example. He has very, very limited skills. His 7'+ body allowes him to have a career in the NBA as a shooter. Put his skills into a 6'4" body and he can't play for most high schools. I know this is a silly arguement but it helps to pass the time.

[forum_guy]

believe me i have never liked garnett but still u gotta give credit where credit is due...the guy isnt over rated...i would have loved to have been around to watch magic, i used to think about that when i younger

[Emerson1]

Garnett plays above average ball and gets his hype for yelling and picking on short white European players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuxOKp7JtHo

2:20 and on is the best part

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
You act like he could of sat on his butt everyday of his life and he would be 6'8 260 and have a great vertical. Sure the guy has a lot of natural ability but you don't put the muscle he has on without hitting the weight room and I guarantee you if he never did anything he wouldnt have the jumping ability he has.

Your underestimating Lebrons court vision, toughness, and anticipation of what is going to happen to make plays. Those are 3 things he has just about as good as anybody in the league.

Jordan was a more skilled offensive player and a better defender and Lebron is a better ahtlete but how can you say Jordan wasnt an elite athlete. I guarantee you MJ was one of the top 5 if not top natural athletes in his NBA days. The getting cut from high school story doesn't hold any water when your talking natural athletic ability at the NBA level. Some guys mature earlier than others and Jordan just matured kind of late but by the time he hit his NBA prime he was an extremly athletic player.


Sorry! I didn't realize I was "Acting" like anything. It was a simple question. And a valid question in my opinion. I don't take anything away from Lebron for his success. I was simply asking is it appropriate for society to deitify him because he is able to have great success in a game where 6'8", 260lbs and 35"+ vertical gives you a huge advantage over others in the same game? I don't see this as any different than asking if it's appropriate for society to worship a woman who is born beautiful or honor a horse who is genetically superior to it's competitors. All them have to work hard to develope these attributes but the fact that they have the huge head start can't be ignored. In reality is Lebron's accomplishments in basketball any more impressive than say................. Spud Webb? Avery Johnson? It's just a questiion.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Lebron is the player he is because of his size. He is an average shooter at best.

37% from 2 point range
30% from 3 point
72% in the lane
20% of his made shots are dunks


Now you have it! Thanks.

[turbostud]

Elton Brand is way overrated.

[DUKE22]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I agree 100%. Lebron is a skilled player. But is he any more skilled than say 75% of NBA players? I vote no. But the skill he does have is so effective because of his physical stature. Shaq had very little actual skill (when compared to othe NBA players) but will mostly be considered one of the best centers in the history of the game. Dirk is another example. He has very, very limited skills. His 7'+ body allowes him to have a career in the NBA as a shooter. Put his skills into a 6'4" body and he can't play for most high schools. I know this is a silly arguement but it helps to pass the time. I understand your point, but Dirk is the best player in his country. He has made multiple all star teams the dude is very very skilled. 7 foot or not you dont play at that level that well and not be very skilled.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
philosophical question:

Should a player like Labron James get so much notority when it is obvious that his talent is a "God-Given" talent rather than something he actually had to develope? 6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35" are all natural attributes that give him a huge advantage over all others. Combine that with his natural agility and cordination and he is in a very elite group of humans. He was a physically dominating player his entire life and the game came very easy to him. Even now he is a physically superior human to the players who try to compete with him. But his skills are not any better than the average NBA player. I often hear him compared to MJ and I laugh in my soup. Am I way off base here????

A high vertical leap isn't something that is God-given, it's something that you have to work for. Especially considering he weighs about 275 and has a vertical leap that's higher than 35 inches...that comes from hard work and dedication.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by DUKE22
I understand your point, but Dirk is the best player in his country. He has made multiple all star teams the dude is very very skilled. 7 foot or not you dont play at that level that well and not be very skilled. You cant question Dirks skill he has great skill. The big question on Dirk is strength he is knocked around pretty good. If a team has a good 6'7 athletic wingman (Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and Stephen Jackson in the playoff series) they can give Dirk fits because they are just as quick as him and usually stronger.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DUKE22
I understand your point, but Dirk is the best player in his country. He has made multiple all star teams the dude is very very skilled. 7 foot or not you dont play at that level that well and not be very skilled.


Once again it needs to be said that ALL NBA players are skilled basketball players. There are probably 1000's of 7' men in the world who can't play a once of BBall. The point was to compare his skills to his peers. I say Dirk plays in the NBA because he is 7' tall because his skills would not lend to a NBA career if he was just 6'4". Some will say that if he were only 6'4" tall he would have developed a different skill set but I disagree. Dirk doesn't have the natural ability to be a 6'4" tall NBA players. I guess I am saying that you have two avenues to be successful in the NBA. Size and Skill. If you are limited in skill you can make with size and if you are limited in size then you have to have skill. Most players fall somewhere in the middle. My original question was if it was a good thing for society to give too much credit to those who fall to far into the SIZE column because that is more of a God-given talent rather than a developed talent. Is that stupid or does that make any sense at all?

[formercougar18]

I dont think Garnett is at all the most overrated. He plays probably with more effort and heart than anyone out there. The most overrated player has got to be Allen Iverson, he has done absolutely nothing with the Pistons. Lebron is thumbs down the best player to ever play in the league, he's way better than MJ even though he was pretty good.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
A high vertical leap isn't something that is God-given, it's something that you have to work for. Especially considering he weighs about 275 and has a vertical leap that's higher than 35 inches...that comes from hard work and dedication.


Sure it is!!! I could workout until eternity ends and could never get a 35" vertical. No different than speed. You are either fast or you are not. Of course you can develope that ability with hard work and effort but the ability has to be there in the first place. I could sweat and pant for decades and then strap on a rocket pack and maybe get my 4" vertical to double but how does that help me?????

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
You cant question Dirks skill he has great skill. The big question on Dirk is strength he is knocked around pretty good. If a team has a good 6'7 athletic wingman (Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and Stephen Jackson in the playoff series) they can give Dirk fits because they are just as quick as him and usually stronger.

That's my point. Because he is 7' tall he can get away with limited big man skills and rely on his shooting skills. Put someone on him who can stop his outside shooting and he has no recourse but to flop around like a dead fish in the hopes of getting a foul called. It's pathetic to watch him with his flailing arms and ripped out spine everytime he drives to the basket........

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Sure it is!!! I could workout until eternity ends and could never get a 35" vertical. No different than speed. You are either fast or you are not. Of course you can develope that ability with hard work and effort but the ability has to be there in the first place. I could sweat and pant for decades and then strap on a rocket pack and maybe get my 4" vertical to double but how does that help me?????

My guess is that you have none of these natural abilities: "6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35". If you were 6'8" and 250 lbs. it is doubtful you would have a 35" vertical. You night develop your leap if you worked hard at it though. If you are 6', I doubt you could work hard and grow yourself to 6'8". Maybe with a little extra effort you could "bulk up" to 250 lbs. regardless of your height.

:cool:

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
My guess is that you have none of these natural abilities: "6'8" , 250lb + with a vertical over 35". If you were 6'8" and 250 lbs. it is doubtful you would have a 35" vertical. You night develop your leap if you worked hard at it though. If you are 6', I doubt you could work hard and grow yourself to 6'8". Maybe with a little extra effort you could "bulk up" to 250 lbs. regardless of your height.

:cool:


You are correct. I have none of those attributes. correction: I do have the 250lb god-given attribute now that I'm almost 50. But in school I was 6' and about 150lbs with a vertical less than 12". (although we never measured verticals i'm just guessing). At the risk of sounding like Uncle Ricco I will say that if I were 6'8", 260lbs and had a 35" vertical I would have been one hell of a ball player. And I could throw this football over them mountains.....

[cshscougar08]

Way too many what ifs in this conversation for accuracy. You can't say what is so and so had this size how would he develop. It's impossible to speculate things like that because different scenarios have different effects on the way things develop and such. That being said, I think we can all agree that Lebron and Michael Jordan both have been very blessed with natural athletic ability. That is very obvious to see. Also, we can agree that they both work (worked in MJs case) hard to continue to get better and to push themselves to be the best they can be. And no denying that natural talent certainly helps. But does that mean that they can just sit around and work less hard than some 6 foot white guy. NO it doesn't!!!! Those who are blessed with natural talent work just as hard as those who are not. Lebron and Michael are two amazing players, but not comparable in my book.

[Electus Unus]

Carmelo but only because he doesn't play defense.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Once again it needs to be said that ALL NBA players are skilled basketball players. There are probably 1000's of 7' men in the world who can't play a once of BBall. The point was to compare his skills to his peers. I say Dirk plays in the NBA because he is 7' tall because his skills would not lend to a NBA career if he was just 6'4". Some will say that if he were only 6'4" tall he would have developed a different skill set but I disagree. Dirk doesn't have the natural ability to be a 6'4" tall NBA players. I guess I am saying that you have two avenues to be successful in the NBA. Size and Skill. If you are limited in skill you can make with size and if you are limited in size then you have to have skill. Most players fall somewhere in the middle. My original question was if it was a good thing for society to give too much credit to those who fall to far into the SIZE column because that is more of a God-given talent rather than a developed talent. Is that stupid or does that make any sense at all?

I dont completely agree with everything your saying, but you do make a lot of valid points. One person you could use as an example is Minut Boll (sp????). That guy had absolutley no skill and 0 athletic ability, but he was like 7' 8" or thereabouts, and he played several years in the NBA and walked away with millions of dollars. Take away that incredible height, he just another starving African from a third world country. The man easily has to be the worst basketball player ever to play in the NBA.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I dont completely agree with everything your saying, but you do make a lot of valid points. One person you could use as an example is Minut Boll (sp????). That guy had absolutley no skill and 0 athletic ability, but he was like 7' 8" or thereabouts, and he played several years in the NBA and walked away with millions of dollars. Take away that incredible height, he just another starving African from a third world country. The man easily has to be the worst basketball player ever to play in the NBA.


Shaun Bradley wasn't far behind him...... And if you take away the ability to knock people out of the way Shaq was nothing but a tall and heavy guy........that should stir em' up.....

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
You are correct. I have none of those attributes. correction: I do have the 250lb god-given attribute now that I'm almost 50. But in school I was 6' and about 150lbs with a vertical less than 12". (although we never measured verticals i'm just guessing). At the risk of sounding like Uncle Ricco I will say that if I were 6'8", 260lbs and had a 35" vertical I would have been one hell of a ball player. And I could throw this football over them mountains.....

You were huge! I was a starting safety and backup running back at a whopping 5'8" and 130 as a senior in high school. I expanded to 200 lbs (age 64) but am now back down to 5' 7 1/2" and 185 lbs. Never had much of a vertical leap and probably could run a 5.5 in the 40. If I had been 6'8" and 250 lbs., I would have been by far the largest player in 2A! Still would have been slow, I'm afraid. If only I could have weighed 150 lbs, maybe I would have been the starting runing back.