Coaching......what does it really take?

[IHStangFan]

What makes a "coach"......and better yet....what sets the good ones apart from the bad ones and the great ones apart from the rest of them?

Apart from having a teaching degree or one in kinesiology, etc.......were talking about coaching....what makes a coach a coach? Coach A's degree doesn't make him a better coach than Coach B.....so that's irrelevant....

A coach has to be a disciplinarian of sorts right?

A coach has to understand their specific arena and be somewhat of a strategist right?

A coach needs to be a motivator right and know how to get his kids to work as a unit....a team?

A coach needs to understand that to get 100% out of his kids there is probably going to have to be a little 1 on 1 face time and that each kid is going to be a little different....

A coach has to have patience at times.....

help me out here guys and gals.....what makes a coach a coach.....what makes the good ones good, and why do some think that we mere "mortals" are incapable of ever learning the trade or being successful at it?

Thanks in advance.

[LH Panther Mom]

Come on, Coach! Everyone in town knows that Little Johnny is the best insert position here to come through insert school here high school in the past 30 years, if ever! Why aren't you smart enough to see that and why isn't he starting? :devil:









Sorry ETB, but dealing with "those" parents is part of the deal and I thought it should be included. (And no thanks!)

[Rabid Cougar]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Come on, Coach! Everyone in town knows that Little Johnny is the best insert position here to come through insert school here high school in the past 30 years, if ever! Why aren't you smart enough to see that and why isn't he starting? :devil:








Sorry ETB, but dealing with "those" parents is part of the deal. (And no thanks!)

There was no one around when I said that.

:confused: :confused:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
There was no one around when I said that.

:confused: :confused:
:clap: :clap: :clap: Niiiiiice! :D

[PutMeInCoach]

Things that I think that annoy coaches:
1) Rose colored glasses worn by parents can get annoying. Hey we all do it to an extent, but not everyone vocalizes it. Sure Johnny might be the bestinsert position here on the team, but with him playing insert position here might not make the best TEAM. TEAM should always come before individual glory.
2) Expectations to win a State Championship just because the boys went to the World Series when they were 12. Come on now. They were competiting with kids their own age...now they are competiting with kids ages 15-18...and some have matured into young men.
3) Parents that try to coach up their kids in the middle of a game. That's what the coach is paid for.
4) Lack of communication. If a parent has concerns about their kid, talk to the coach, not the community. The negativity brings everyone down. Sometimes little Johnny is on the bench and knows why, but failed to tell Daddy the reason why.

Things that I think make great coaches great:
1) Tough on the kids by challenging them both physcially and mentally.
2) Taking interest in their school work and other activities...really show the kids they are vested in their lives.
3) Be approachable...don't intimidate the kids where they would never come talk to you if they had a problem.
4) Make decisions that they can live with, because they are the ones that will have to live with that decision for the rest of their lives.

[coach]

http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88765&highlight=coaching

[worldbfree]

It is very easy to make a decision from the stands when the outcome is not actually on your shoulders. Anyone can think clearly and freely at that point and time. Being on the sidelines with the weight of the outcome on your shoulders is a whole different deal.

People in the stands can live by the "whoever has the chalk last "motto.....coaches must realize what gives their team the best chance to succeed and possibly win.....that is before you throw in practice, performance during practice, academics, academic performance, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc................much much more goes into decision making that what people in the stands see on game night.

[Johnny Utah]

I honestly do not think the mere mortal as you put it realizes how much time and energy is put into being a very good coach. Typical day for a head basketball coach during football season for example:

5:30 am wake up(kiss your kids, cause they are not awake!)
6:00 school/classroom prep and practice prep
6:45 am until end of athletic period(8:30ish) basketball practice with offseason kids(mind you basketball season has started and football is still going on)
Teach for 4 to 6 periods during the school day, will have a conference, and another athletic period if you are lucky, 30 min. lunch
*Not all coaches just teach PE, Many have degrees other than Kinesiology, Biology, Composite Science, Composite Social Studies, Math, etc...
3:45-4:15 Football practice prep, field set up, practice routin, etc.
4:15-7pm Football practice
7-7:45pm practice breakdown, clean up
8:00 pm get to go home if your lucky, and see your kids awake for an hour you hope.
Same thing over again.....But, this does not count game days which can start before school ends due to travel and some do not get home until 11pm or Midnight on school nights, still early mornings, and get to do it again.
Not glamorous or a job that pays well.
*Coaches and Teachers do it because they LOVE it and either had a awesome role model who was a parent(in the teaching/coaching profession) or a coach lead them in that direction.
Just the tip of the Ice Berg, we have not dealt with players or parents or admin or fellow teachers yet.

[Johnny Utah]

Well put WBF, anyone ever try to coach a kid that just does not get it or is not skilled. Try it sometime.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Honestly, that doesn't bother me much. It's the "run a play that works", "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots that wear me out. I expect parents to be somewhat delusional about their kids. But that other crap is what wears me out and gets coaches fired.



The "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots are the reason the coach has a job. Without the spectators, sports would not exist. And regardless of popular opinion it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something isn't working. The most novice sports fan can watch a game and tell if a team/player is not getting it done. The "idiots" might not have your training but if the team is running a 3-4 defense and getting donkey stomped then Joe the town drunk has a valid argument that you should be running a 4-3. And if you consider that the team is getting "donkey stomped" regularly playing the coaches scheme then Joe the drunk might actually know more than the coach does.................Sometimes knowledge gets in the way of progress! I think most of the "idiots" that you speak about don't become "Idiots" until they watch week after week after week of examples of not getting it done and no adjustments being made. A coach could dress out penquins and make them wear pink and most fans wouldn't care as long as they win. As soon as you start losing then you can expect to be questioned on your decisions. Such is life! Why should coaching be any different?

[Johnny Utah]

You are correct Farmer, but Jimmys and Joes beat X's and O's most of the time. Some of the time they do not. I would bet you.....most coaches would rather have great players than great schemes, but great players make whatever scheme work.
My hometown used to be a basketball power, not any more. NO TALENT! Does that make the coach a bad one?? Winning does cure everything, but not everyone wins. It is more about life lessons than overall winning, that is what separates the good or average coaches or fans in the stands from the great ones.
*Do you remember the games you won over the lessons you learned? Think about that.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots are the reason the coach has a job. Without the spectators, sports would not exist. And regardless of popular opinion it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something isn't working. The most novice sports fan can watch a game and tell if a team/player is not getting it done. The "idiots" might not have your training but if the team is running a 3-4 defense and getting donkey stomped then Joe the town drunk has a valid argument that you should be running a 4-3. And if you consider that the team is getting "donkey stomped" regularly playing the coaches scheme then Joe the drunk might actually know more than the coach does.................Sometimes knowledge gets in the way of progress! I think most of the "idiots" that you speak about don't become "Idiots" until they watch week after week after week of examples of not getting it done and no adjustments being made. A coach could dress out penquins and make them wear pink and most fans wouldn't care as long as they win. As soon as you start losing then you can expect to be questioned on your decisions. Such is life! Why should coaching be any different?

cant wait to hear the responses to this....haha

[IHStangFan]

:clap: good stuff good stuff.....keep it coming.....oh...and ETB...I've got an idea for what offense you should run! PM me! :D

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots are the reason the coach has a job. Without the spectators, sports would not exist.

apparantly you have never been to a DISD game....sports still exist here without the spectators! :D

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots are the reason the coach has a job. Without the spectators, sports would not exist. And regardless of popular opinion it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something isn't working. The most novice sports fan can watch a game and tell if a team/player is not getting it done. The "idiots" might not have your training but if the team is running a 3-4 defense and getting donkey stomped then Joe the town drunk has a valid argument that you should be running a 4-3. And if you consider that the team is getting "donkey stomped" regularly playing the coaches scheme then Joe the drunk might actually know more than the coach does.................Sometimes knowledge gets in the way of progress! I think most of the "idiots" that you speak about don't become "Idiots" until they watch week after week after week of examples of not getting it done and no adjustments being made. A coach could dress out penquins and make them wear pink and most fans wouldn't care as long as they win. As soon as you start losing then you can expect to be questioned on your decisions. Such is life! Why should coaching be any different?

Donkey stompings usually = LACK OF TALENT, i.e. coaches have very little to work with so a 3-4-vs-4-3 defense really isn't gonna make much of a difference, IMHO.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
You are correct Farmer, but Jimmys and Joes beat X's and O's most of the time. Some of the time they do not. I would bet you.....most coaches would rather have great players than great schemes, but great players make whatever scheme work.
My hometown used to be a basketball power, not any more. NO TALENT! Does that make the coach a bad one?? Winning does cure everything, but not everyone wins. It is more about life lessons than overall winning, that is what separates the good or average coaches or fans in the stands from the great ones.
*Do you remember the games you won over the lessons you learned? Think about that.


I did not mean to insinuate that a good coach was not a valid commodity and that winning was the only thing. I was addressing the post about the "idiots" in the stands. I know and understand the hard work and time that good coaches put into the job. I respect that they care enough to do it. I work in a government job and if 3000 people saw my job every week and disapproved then I doubt very seriously that I would have a job very long. And the touchy-feely ideas of life lessons and developing responsible adults is great but reality is those people who pay to watch expect results. I'm simply saying that they aren't always wrong when they say a losing team should do something differently....

[Johnny Utah]

PieRAT, he is from Farmersville, He coached the pee wee leagues that is why they won state!!! Dont you get it!! Those hs coaches just took over after THEY developed the talent!!! Kind of funny but....the coaches that went into Farmersville did not win state titles before they got there.....does that make them bad coaches? They had some talent at Farmersville and won a state title, does that make them great coaches??? Those same coaches are at a larger classification, are they going to win a state title? Does that make them not as good of a coach since winning at Farmersville?

[Johnny Utah]

Farmersfan, all coaches get FIRED, it is part of the job. But, all coaches(most of them anyway) instill more in the kids than just winning. That is the reason they TEACH and Coach. Fans in the stands will never understand that, that is the separation of the two. And always will be.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I'm simply saying that they aren't always wrong when they say a losing team should do something differently.... LOL and they aren't always right

[Johnny Utah]

Technical question for Farmersfan.....What is a 4i?

[pirate4state]

what does it really take? ----- THICK SKIN!

so all the comments from coffee shops, stands & on message boards just provide them with a good laugh ;)

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Donkey stompings usually = LACK OF TALENT, i.e. coaches have very little to work with so a 3-4-vs-4-3 defense really isn't gonna make much of a difference, IMHO.


I disagree! Getting beat usually equates to a lack of talent. Donkey stompings come from a lack of talent AND poor execution or preparation. A good scheme and the right preparation can normally make a team competitive. You can't be a powerhouse without talent but you can be competitive. The point about the defenses is that if the coach chooses to run a 3-4 and it doesn't work then he is wrong. A 4-3 might be even worst but the "idiots" in the stands don't know that because all they have seen is the 3-4. We have all heard the "if it isn't broke-don't fix it!"
Well the opposite of that is "If it is broke- fix it"!

[Johnny Utah]

Coach those pee wee footballers up then!!!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
PieRAT, he is from Farmersville, He coached the pee wee leagues that is why they won state!!! Dont you get it!! Those hs coaches just took over after THEY developed the talent!!! Kind of funny but....the coaches that went into Farmersville did not win state titles before they got there.....does that make them bad coaches? They had some talent at Farmersville and won a state title, does that make them great coaches??? Those same coaches are at a larger classification, are they going to win a state title? Does that make them not as good of a coach since winning at Farmersville?


It's really great that you have so much insight into ME!!! Trying turning that brilliance on yourself. At what point did any of my statements have anything to do with Farmersville? It was simply a point I was making that not all spectators can be called "idiots" just because they call for a change by the coach. Please try to follow.................

[IHStangFan]

so I see a theme here.....are all of us fans in the stands "idiots"?? Is that how coaches view fans? I agree....there are some....but the loose use of the word "idiot" here is painting a picture for me.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
so I see a theme here.....are all of us fans in the stands "idiots"?? Is that how coaches view fans? I agree....there are some....but the loose use of the word "idiot" here is painting a picture for me.

only two people in this thread have used the word idiot....well...now that you used it....three!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
only two people in this thread have used the word idiot....well...now that you used it....three! yes......that is correct..... :clap: but doesn't answer my question.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
yes......that is correct..... :clap: but doesn't answer my question.
just wondered how you came up with that theme

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes, any idiot can see that something doesn't work, but rarely can they see WHY it doesn't work. Usually, the problem is in the gene pool and not in the scheme. Ive met very few coaches who weren't sound in their knowledge, and never met a head coach who wasn't.
Good athletes make good coaches. Hands down!



I think we have said the same thing. The only difference is that the spectators don't KNOW why it isn't working only that it isn't and they want a change. They become "Idiots" when those changes aren't made and it continues to NOT WORK... I'm not saying it's right or wrong just reality. And the idea that the fans should just accept it because the COACH knows what he is doing is not in touch with reality. That kind of thing doesn't happen in any avenue of life so why would coaching be different?

[Johnny Utah]

Farmer, I try to follow all the time, Gets me in trouble!! Mingus awaits, gotta go coach em up at the Boars Nest!! LOL Not all fans are idiots, not every coach is a great one, but I agree with Ernest.....gene pools have a lot to do with it. Good coaching can overcome only so much. Did not mean to cause you ill feelings. But, I personally knew the boys basketball coach that was at Farmersville when they won state in football. He is one heck of a basketball mind and coach, won at Marion, DID NOT WIN at Mustang Land...but he is still a very good coach. Talent has a lot to do with it or lack there of.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
just wondered how you came up with that theme used here more than once by more than one person......and have seen it used in the same pretence under similar discussions before.....so yes....I see a theme......also....I'm still wondering if that's how a lot of coaches view fans....as idiots?

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
so I see a theme here.....are all of us fans in the stands "idiots"?? Is that how coaches view fans? I agree....there are some....but the loose use of the word "idiot" here is painting a picture for me.

Yes. They think the fans that scream out stupid things to them during a game are idiots as do the fans sitting around them! :D

And obviously those fans think the coaches are idiots otherwise why would they be yelling to do something different? :thinking: :p

So you see...we are ALL idiots! :)

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Yes. They think the fans that scream out stupid things to them during a game are idiots as do the fans sitting around them! :D

And obviously those fans think the coaches are idiots otherwise why would they be yelling to do something different? :thinking: :p

So you see...we are ALL idiots! :)

lol....:clap:

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Yes. They think the fans that scream out stupid things to them during a game are idiots as do the fans sitting around them! :D

And obviously those fans think the coaches are idiots otherwise why would they be yelling to do something different? :thinking: :p

So you see...we are ALL idiots! :) uh......speak for yourself! LOL. :D

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
uh......speak for yourself! LOL. :D

well i certainly wouldn't speak for you. i don't even know your language. haha gotta love The Breakfast Club.

anyway kids it's been fun, but i have some work to do. try to behave yourselves. i'll be back in an hour to check on your work. :nerd: LMAO

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
used here more than once by more than one person......and have seen it used in the same pretence under similar discussions before.....so yes....I see a theme......also....I'm still wondering if that's how a lot of coaches view fans....as idiots?


I apoligize to everyone is I took this to a different level. I was addressing the statement by Ernest T. Bass that he gets tired of the "Idiots in the stands" who tell the coach they should run a certain type of offense or defense. I was simply making the statement that just because they are the coach it does not give them a flyer on all decisions and actions. If they lose they have to expect to answer for it.... That's basic human nature. If you or I fail at our job then we have to answer for it. "Fail" is a subjective term in coaching but if you consider the "Idiots" in the stands are the ones paying the coach then their definitions of "fail" holds more weight. I would chose to have it a different way but I don't think it is......

[kaorder1999]

Had someone send this to me a while back.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT CONSTITUTES A GOOD COACH?

They possess thorough knowledge of fundamental techniques.

They are a teacher. Games are not won by what a coach thinks he knows. They are won by how much his players have learned.

They are prepared at meetings, practices and games.

They have a positive attitude.

They are a tireless worker willing to devote time to all phases of the program.

They have a winning attitude and know what it takes to win

They are loyal, honest, and dedicated to their fellow coaches, the school and the players.

They do not over coach. They do not take initiative and instinct out of a player.

They are enthusiastic.

They are demanding. A good team is built upon good habits and discipline.

They are self-disciplined.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I apoligize to everyone is I took this to a different level. I was addressing the statement by Ernest T. Bass that he gets tired of the "Idiots in the stands" who tell the coach they should run a certain type of offense or defense. I was simply making the statement that just because they are the coach it does not give them a flyer on all decisions and actions. If they lose they have to expect to answer for it.... That's basic human nature. If you or I fail at our job then we have to answer for it. "Fail" is a subjective term in coaching but if you consider the "Idiots" in the stands are the ones paying the coach then their definitions of "fail" holds more weight. I would chose to have it a different way but I don't think it is......

posts like that is what gets under my skin.

1) If you do not do your job well who do you have to answer to? Your boss... right? Your employer? Not me. Not an outsider. If I look at what you are doing and continuously tell you how bad of a job you are doing you do not have to answer to me. So...a coach should have to report, to answer, to his employer.

2) You say idiots in the stands are the ones paying the coach? How you figure? Cause you pay taxes? :rolleyes:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT CONSTITUTES A GOOD COACH?


They have a positive attitude.


They are men of integrity
Love to have fun
And They never take thier eye off the goal.. The WIN


http://jr.snyder.esc14.net/2007-08/7th%20Grade%20TAKS%20Cookout%205.21.08/PICT0104.JPG

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
posts like that is what gets under my skin.

1) If you do not do your job well who do you have to answer to? Your boss... right? Your employer? Not me. Not an outsider. If I look at what you are doing and continuously tell you how bad of a job you are doing you do not have to answer to me. So...a coach should have to report, to answer, to his employer.

2) You say idiots in the stands are the ones paying the coach? How you figure? Cause you pay taxes? :rolleyes: to a point I'd say he's right.....tax payers do play a part.....as well as elected school board officials that are made up of towns people......it's a vicious circle. LOL.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
so I see a theme here.....are all of us fans in the stands "idiots"?? Is that how coaches view fans? I agree....there are some....but the loose use of the word "idiot" here is painting a picture for me.

Yes you are!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny Utah]

Stang fan, school board members ARE NOT ELECTED TO MAKE PERSONEL Decisions, that is up to the Schools Administration. It has to be that way or School Boards with agendas corrupt the educational process. Everyone pays taxes, does that mean I get to scream at the Local Banker?

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Stang fan, school board members ARE NOT ELECTED TO MAKE PERSONEL Decisions, that is up to the Schools Administration. It has to be that way or School Boards with agendas corrupt the educational process. Everyone pays taxes, does that mean I get to scream at the Local Banker?

You can now because we (taxpayers) bailed them out!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Yes you are!!!!!!!!! ??? I'm sorry...I don't think I follow you......are you calling me an idiot?

[worldbfree]

here's my question.....if a coach believes in a 3-4 and it does not work......you really expect him to change to a completely different defense in the middle of a game?? You really believe that there is the time and experience on the players part to be able to successfully run a 3-4 and a 4-3 simultaneously?? Crap, they can't hardly do that in the NFL. So as soon as things go wrong the coach should trash their system and beliefs and just change for changes sake........they shouldn't stay after it try to perfect the fundamentals that make most schemes work.......I think too many fans think it is about the overall scheme when in reality it is about the little things done to execute a scheme.......which is exactly why they are in the stands and not on the field.......sure "drunken Joe" can see that something isn't working......look at the scoreboard that will say plenty.......but if "drunken Joe" can't offer a valid explanation or even better.......a valid solution then "drunken Joe" should keep his "drunken mouth" shut and support the team his kid likely plays for.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Stang fan, school board members ARE NOT ELECTED TO MAKE PERSONEL Decisions, that is up to the Schools Administration. It has to be that way or School Boards with agendas corrupt the educational process. Everyone pays taxes, does that mean I get to scream at the Local Banker? the school board has no part in hiring and firing coaches?

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
??? I'm sorry...I don't think I follow you......are you calling me an idiot?

Can you read?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Can you read? okay...just wanted to be sure before I reported you for it. Thanks for clarifying. :)

[Johnny Utah]

Stang, all of those agenda items are recommendations from the Administration, the coaches and teachers bosses. Not the school board. Most well run schools keep it that way, some school boards get out of whack, but that is the very reason why some of those schools fail and administrators and teachers leave. No room for politics at that level.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Stang, all of those agenda items are recommendations from the Administration, the coaches and teachers bosses. Not the school board. Most well run schools keep it that way, some school boards get out of whack, but that is the very reason why some of those schools fail and administrators and teachers leave. No room for politics at that level. I get what you're saying. Thanks for the insight. Just from past experiences I've seen it go the way of the school board having a lot of administrative power and make "questionable" decisions and whatnot that pertain to the direct hiring and firing of coaches.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
the school board has no part in hiring and firing coaches?

the only personnel the school board can fire is the Superintendent. The job of the school board is to take recommendations from the Supt. and either approve or disapprove of the recommendations

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
okay...just wanted to be sure before I reported you for it. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Oh no don't go tell mommy on me.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
the only personnel the school board can fire is the Superintendent. The job of the school board is to take recommendations from the Supt. and either approve or disapprove of the recommendations I follow ya. Thanks for the clarification.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I follow ya. Thanks for the clarification.

and im about 90% sure that is right. :D

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
the school board has no part in hiring and firing coaches? They find the superintendent, vote on funding issues, and programs ect. personel questions/ issues are handled by the administration, super, principles ect..

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
and im about 90% sure that is right. :D 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot.... :p

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by worldbfree
here's my question.....if a coach believes in a 3-4 and it does not work......you really expect him to change to a completely different defense in the middle of a game?? You really believe that there is the time and experience on the players part to be able to successfully run a 3-4 and a 4-3 simultaneously?? Crap, they can't hardly do that in the NFL. So as soon as things go wrong the coach should trash their system and beliefs and just change for changes sake........they shouldn't stay after it try to perfect the fundamentals that make most schemes work.......I think too many fans think it is about the overall scheme when in reality it is about the little things done to execute a scheme.......which is exactly why they are in the stands and not on the field.......sure "drunken Joe" can see that something isn't working......look at the scoreboard that will say plenty.......but if "drunken Joe" can't offer a valid explanation or even better.......a valid solution then "drunken Joe" should keep his "drunken mouth" shut and support the team his kid likely plays for.



I don't neccessarily disagree with you in theory. But spectators aren't required to know all that you mentioned.
And therein lies the problem. You assume that "drunken Joe" has a responsibility to FIX the problem. I say he has NO responsibilty to the problem at all. Being a spectator provides him with RIGHTS of observation. And being a PAYING spectator provides him with Rights of criticism. The coach is a paid teacher of the participants of the sport that the paying spectator is watching so the coach has a responsibility to provide a product that the spectator will or will not criticise. Those are the realities of the subject. We all would like to believe in the touchy-feeling, Politically Correct comments about it but it's just not reality. The bottom line is that if a coach does not satisfy the spectator then he is failing in his job. This is the opinion. Right or Wrong! Enough dissatisfied spectators and he gets fired.............

[pancho villa]

It seems to me the fans that are the most critical are the ones who were to wimpy to play football when they were young.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
It seems to me the fans that are the most critical are the ones who were to wimpy to play football when they were young.


Yea! That's it!!!!!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I don't neccessarily disagree with you in theory. But spectators aren't required to know all that you mentioned.
And therein lies the problem. You assume that "drunken Joe" has a responsibility to FIX the problem. I say he has NO responsibilty to the problem at all. Being a spectator provides him with RIGHTS of observation. And being a PAYING spectator provides him with Rights of criticism. The coach is a paid teacher of the participants of the sport that the paying spectator is watching so the coach has a responsibility to provide a product that the spectator will or will not criticise. Those are the realities of the subject. We all would like to believe in the touchy-feeling, Politically Correct comments about it but it's just not reality. The bottom line is that if a coach does not satisfy the spectator then he is failing in his job. This is the opinion. Right or Wrong! Enough dissatisfied spectators and he gets fired............. agreed somewhat....but also I can see the other side of the argument....sometimes, in some places, some years...the talent just isn't going to be there. This varies from town to town....Cuero for example usually fields a pretty good team no matter what year or what sport. Most towns don't have it like that. So I can understand both sides of the argument. I think it's give and take and a lot of times it's not as black and white/cut and dry as we'd like it to be. A coach has to do his best w/ what he's got to work with...I'll agree w/ them on that.....but at the same time....it's the coach's responsibility to insure that he in fact does this. Coaching is a double-edged sword I guess.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I don't neccessarily disagree with you in theory. But spectators aren't required to know all that you mentioned.
And therein lies the problem. You assume that "drunken Joe" has a responsibility to FIX the problem. I say he has NO responsibilty to the problem at all. Being a spectator provides him with RIGHTS of observation. And being a PAYING spectator provides him with Rights of criticism. The coach is a paid teacher of the participants of the sport that the paying spectator is watching so the coach has a responsibility to provide a product that the spectator will or will not criticise. Those are the realities of the subject. We all would like to believe in the touchy-feeling, Politically Correct comments about it but it's just not reality. The bottom line is that if a coach does not satisfy the spectator then he is failing in his job. This is the opinion. Right or Wrong! Enough dissatisfied spectators and he gets fired.............

The problem with this thinking is that it should be reserved for College and Pro Coaches. Do you really think that much money is being made off of high school sports? Is the $6 price tag enough to allow you to think you somehow are paying the salaries of those coaches involved?

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The bottom line is that if a coach does not satisfy the spectator then he is failing in his job.

that may be the most ignorant thing I have ever read on here regarding coaching. I challenge you to research every job posting there is for a coaching position and research every job responsibility literature you can find within an ISD and see if one time you will find anything at all that supports that statement you made.

I totally agree that the spectator has the right to any and all opinions they may have regarding a coach but I refuse to believe that it is the coaches duty to please you, the spectator. You will NEVER find a town, a school, a community where every fan in happy. When Todd Dodge was winning State Title after State title, there were disgruntled fans in the stands. Was it because they werent winning? Of course not. But they were unhappy for other reasons. So was Dodge a failure at Southlake?

There is a reason why school districts hire administrators to make personnel decisions and not leave it up to the fans, the spectators, or the community!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by STAggie
The problem with this thinking is that it should be reserved for College and Pro Coaches. Do you really think that much money is being made off of high school sports? Is the $6 price tag enough to allow you to think you somehow are paying the salaries of those coaches involved? yes and no...when compared to college/pro...no....when thinking in terms of a small 3A town where the average income is below 40K.....maybe.....you say $6 a ticket...times...lets say...1500 people a game (we'll go low side) x 10 games a year....that's $90K a season just off of ticket sales....not to mention booster club sales of shirts, etc. Not saying that this money goes into the coaches pocket...but it's not chump change in a small town either......Just saying for argument's sake.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
yes and no...when compared to college/pro...no....when thinking in terms of a small 3A town where the average income is below 40K.....maybe.....you say $6 a ticket...times...lets say...1500 people a game (we'll go low side) x 10 games a year....that's $90K a season just off of ticket sales....not to mention booster club sales of shirts, etc. Not saying that this money goes into the coaches pocket...but it's not chump change in a small town either......Just saying for argument's sake.


Cut that in half cause most teams only have 4-6 home games a year. You are now looking at about $50K on ticket sales. I would almost be willing to argue this barely pays for the matinence and staffing fees. But then again I could be wrong. I def see wher eyou are coming from and I like you am arguing for argument's sake.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
yes and no...when compared to college/pro...no....when thinking in terms of a small 3A town where the average income is below 40K.....maybe.....you say $6 a ticket...times...lets say...1500 people a game (we'll go low side) x 10 games a year....that's $90K a season just off of ticket sales....not to mention booster club sales of shirts, etc. Not saying that this money goes into the coaches pocket...but it's not chump change in a small town either......Just saying for argument's sake.

you have to think about the cost of transportation...think about the cost of utilities....cost of officials.....The money made at the athletic events DOES NOT go into the pockets of the coaches. (At least those that are not stealing) That money goes into a general fund or athletic fund which is then pumped back into the overall athletic budget if allowed by principal, supt or whoever handles the Districts finances

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
you have to think about the cost of transportation...think about the cost of utilities....cost of officials.....The money made at the athletic events DOES NOT go into the pockets of the coaches. (At least those that are not stealing) That money goes into a general fund or athletic fund which is then pumped back into the overall athletic budget if allowed by principal, supt or whoever handles the Districts finances right right....that is understood....was just making a point that the paying fans/spectators DO play a part in the grand scheme of things...even if it is in a small, indirect way. Now...that brings me to a totally different point....and perhaps a different thread all together....the non-paying "park the truck outside the fence and drink beer" fan. LOL.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
right right....that is understood....was just making a point that the paying fans/spectators DO play a part in the grand scheme of things...even if it is in a small, indirect way. Now...that brings me to a totally different point....and perhaps a different thread all together....the non-paying "park the truck outside the fence and drink beer" fan. LOL.

of course they do. Dont get me wrong...I understand the importance of the fan/spectator.

Let me ask this question....

Do you think there is ever a game/athletic event that occurs where as the spectators are leaving EVERYONE is happy, no matter the outcome of the game?

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by kaorder1999


Do you think there is ever a game/athletic event that occurs where as the spectators are leaving EVERYONE is happy, no matter the outcome of the game?

If we won I'm happy, but I will find stuff to gripe about because the coaches are my friends and I like giving them a hard time! :D Besides, I wouldn't be ME if I didn't bitch about something. HAHA

[worldbfree]

my point was not for the spectator to be able to offer a solution........my point was that the spectator is not qualified to offer a solution......therefore, not qualified to criticize.....this ain't little league.....you don't pay to play.....and a coach being criticized does not equal failure....I coach at a school where in basketball the records the last two years have been 38-4 (state champions), 35-5 (regional finalists), and this year 28-5 (to this point) and we have some "drunken joe's" that criticize.......does that mean we are failing?? I don't think so......it means they are what they are "drunken joe's" .......that don't have the experience or knowledge but, rather, have some personal agenda that they are not happy with so they are griping.....I understand that it comes with the territory but, by NO MEANS is it a paid right.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
of course they do. Dont get me wrong...I understand the importance of the fan/spectator.

Let me ask this question....

Do you think there is ever a game/athletic event that occurs where as the spectators are leaving EVERYONE is happy, no matter the outcome of the game? no, not at all.....I get what you are saying. I wasn't trying to argue that point at all. We're human...and you can't always please EVRYONE.....I'm more in the line of thinking that if an entire town turns on a coach for whatever the reason....that theoretically it could affect said coaches job security due to a number of things that lead to a domino effect.....to a point.

Just for the record I am finding this thread to be educational and interesting.....exactly the reason I posted it in the first place....for insight.

Thank you for contributing. I like getting different points of view.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
no, not at all.....I get what you are saying. I wasn't trying to argue that point at all. We're human...and you can't always please EVRYONE.....I'm more in the line of thinking that if an entire town turns on a coach for whatever the reason....that theoretically it could affect said coaches job security due to a number of things that lead to a domino effect.....to a point.

Just for the record I am finding this thread to be educational and interesting.....exactly the reason I posted it in the first place....for insight.

Thank you for contributing. I like getting different points of view.
the reason I asked that question was because of the comment that was made, not by you, about if the spectator is not pleased then the coach is failing in his job.

My point...there is ALWAYS going to be someone unhappy with what is going on no matter the outcome of games so if that theory were used then the coach would always be a failure!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by worldbfree
my point was not for the spectator to be able to offer a solution........my point was that the spectator is not qualified to offer a solution......therefore, not qualified to criticize.....this ain't little league.....you don't pay to play.....and a coach being criticized does not equal failure....I coach at a school where in basketball the records the last two years have been 38-4 (state champions), 35-5 (regional finalists), and this year 28-5 (to this point) and we have some "drunken joe's" that criticize.......does that mean we are failing?? I don't think so......it means they are what they are "drunken joe's" .......that don't have the experience or knowledge but, rather, have some personal agenda that they are not happy with so they are griping.....I understand that it comes with the territory but, by NO MEANS is it a paid right. and that is valid....because we all know those guys are out there......but don't lump us ALL into this group....that's a stereotype and not an accurate one. That was one of my original questions....do all coaches view all fan as this "drunken joe"?

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
and that is valid....because we all know those guys are out there......but don't lump us ALL into this group....that's a stereotype and not an accurate one. That was one of my original questions....do all coaches view all fan as this "drunken joe"?

not at all. I have had a great relationship with the parents/fans of every school I have been employed.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
the reason I asked that question was because of the comment that was made, not by you, about if the spectator is not pleased then the coach is failing in his job.

My point...there is ALWAYS going to be someone unhappy with what is going on no matter the outcome of games so if that theory were used then the coach would always be a failure! Agreed....but I took from what that poster said to be more of what I'm getting at.....it's not a failure to have a handful of disgruntled fans.....but if the entire town calls for his head...it's a different story. Or maybe I just read into what he was saying? I'll go on record as saying there is a fine line that coaches walk between doing his job and keeping it in some cases regardless of his ability to coach. Perception is a big part of earning a living in the public eye.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
not at all. I have had a great relationship with the parents/fans of every school I have been employed. :) This is refreshing, as I was begining to think we were all viewed as "drunken joes" everytime we opened out mouths, LOL. Fans are passionate, they're gonna yell, they're gonna get revved up...it's what we do.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
not at all. I have had a great relationship with the parents/fans of every school I have been employed.

butt kisser lol

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
butt kisser lol

LOL...but at the same time I guess Ive been blessed enough to be at places where spectators and fans respect the job that I do. Do they get after me from the stands? Maybe so. I NEVER hear it. Im too much into what Im doing on the field and never hear what is said, going on in the stands though!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
butt kisser lol hey hey hey.....you're not behind a mic anymore!! :D

[pancho villa]

Another insite for ya'll. The numbnuts yelling in the stands and blaming the coach for poor play, are doing it because their kid is a rotten football player.

[worldbfree]

I don't think so......it means they are what they are "drunken joe's" .......that don't have the experience or knowledge but, rather, have some personal agenda that they are not happy with so they are griping.....I understand that it comes with the territory but, by NO MEANS is it a paid right.

This right here shows that I am not stereotyping.......I am saying that those that participate in this type of behavior are what they are.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
that may be the most ignorant thing I have ever read on here regarding coaching. I challenge you to research every job posting there is for a coaching position and research every job responsibility literature you can find within an ISD and see if one time you will find anything at all that supports that statement you made.

I totally agree that the spectator has the right to any and all opinions they may have regarding a coach but I refuse to believe that it is the coaches duty to please you, the spectator. You will NEVER find a town, a school, a community where every fan in happy. When Todd Dodge was winning State Title after State title, there were disgruntled fans in the stands. Was it because they werent winning? Of course not. But they were unhappy for other reasons. So was Dodge a failure at Southlake?

There is a reason why school districts hire administrators to make personnel decisions and not leave it up to the fans, the spectators, or the community!


No actually I think your response to my post is a little more ignorant. I think you need to go back a read again with the other side of your brain. You took a statement about the barest bottomline function of working for the public and turned it into a arguement about ME........ I never once said a coach had to please ME. Or even YOU. I said a coach has to keep the spectators happy. Spectators is a term that encompasses everyone who watches the game and has involvement. I could be wrong but I would think a coaches job description will include harbouring public support and goodwill. Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't it a requirement of a public servant to keep the public happy????? And yes a coach is a public servant in a basic sort of way. Every penny he makes off the job comes from the public coffers...................

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by STAggie
The problem with this thinking is that it should be reserved for College and Pro Coaches. Do you really think that much money is being made off of high school sports? Is the $6 price tag enough to allow you to think you somehow are paying the salaries of those coaches involved?


The 6 dollar price tag isn't enough to make me think anything. But the truth is. I am part of the tax paying public and YES the tax paying public DOES pay their salaries. Unless they have some private sponsors that we don't know about. Is my little insignificant contribution to the pot enough to give me special treatment? I don't think so. But the last time I checked we didn't have silent partners in the public sector so unless a new law has been passed then everyone has a voice........... Enough voices speak out and the coach isn't doing his job up to standards. I never said I agree with these things. I am simply discussing how I think it really is. All PC and Warmfuzzy aside it is a very, very harsh world we live in........

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
No actually I think your response to my post is a little more ignorant. I think you need to go back a read again with the other side of your brain. You took a statement about the barest bottomline function of working for the public and turned it into a arguement about ME........ I never once said a coach had to please ME. Or even YOU. I said a coach has to keep the spectators happy. Spectators is a term that encompasses everyone who watches the game and has involvement. I could be wrong but I would think a coaches job description will include harbouring public support and goodwill. Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't it a requirement of a public servant to keep the public happy????? And yes a coach is a public servant in a basic sort of way. Every penny he makes off the job comes from the public coffers...................
no...the requirement of a public servant is to serve the public. There are ALWAYS going to be people unhappy. Its as simple as that. Does a police officer who writes numerous tickets and upsets people who got tickets lose his job because he has made a few mad for doing his job?

A coach is ALWAYS going to make somebody mad who doesn't agree with the coaches philosophies, expectations, fundamentals, etc. A coaches job is to win games of course but people who truly understand the game will see and know if that coach is getting the most he possibly can from the hand he's given! And guess what? Its not up to the "spectator" to make that call and make a decision on whether or not that coach is doing his job....its's his Employers job to make that call!

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The 6 dollar price tag isn't enough to make me think anything. But the truth is. I am part of the tax paying public and YES the tax paying public DOES pay their salaries. Unless they have some private sponsors that we don't know about. Is my little insignificant contribution to the pot enough to give me special treatment? I don't think so. But the last time I checked we didn't have silent partners in the public sector so unless a new law has been passed then everyone has a voice........... Enough voices speak out and the coach isn't doing his job up to standards. I never said I agree with these things. I am simply discussing how I think it really is. All PC and Warmfuzzy aside it is a very, very harsh world we live in........
and if you are so concerned about where your tax dollars are going and your right to do whatever...how many times have you gone to the choirs performances and spent time noting what that director is doing wrong and if he's getting those kids full potential? How many times have you done that with the theater group or the band? Ever gone to a UIL competition to see if the UIL coaches are getting thos kids' full potential? Remember...you're paying their salries too right? Just wondering....

[JR2004]

Originally posted by worldbfree
my point was not for the spectator to be able to offer a solution........my point was that the spectator is not qualified to offer a solution......therefore, not qualified to criticize.....this ain't little league.....you don't pay to play.....and a coach being criticized does not equal failure....I coach at a school where in basketball the records the last two years have been 38-4 (state champions), 35-5 (regional finalists), and this year 28-5 (to this point) and we have some "drunken joe's" that criticize.......does that mean we are failing?? I don't think so......it means they are what they are "drunken joe's" .......that don't have the experience or knowledge but, rather, have some personal agenda that they are not happy with so they are griping.....I understand that it comes with the territory but, by NO MEANS is it a paid right.

You're also at a school where they expect to run the table and beat everyone by 40 every night. Dealing with the criticism in a high pressure environment like that just comes with the territory.

You could be like the poor guy at North Dallas who moved down here from Indianapolis to take his first job outside the Hoosier State. He shows up and discovers all his players transferred and that he'll be playing with freshmen and sophomores for the season in the toughest 4A basketball district in the state. North Dallas is currently 0-23 on the season and only 1 loss has been by single digits. I'd take "Drunken Joe's" and winning over that misery any day of the week and I bet he would too!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
the reason I asked that question was because of the comment that was made, not by you, about if the spectator is not pleased then the coach is failing in his job.

My point...there is ALWAYS going to be someone unhappy with what is going on no matter the outcome of games so if that theory were used then the coach would always be a failure!


And he always is...(in the eyes of someone) You can't please all the people all the time. My point is that failure is subjective. the more people who think the coach is a failure the closer to reality it becomes. It's lunacy to think a coach has to make all people happy at all times. But if he doesn't keep the MASSES happy then he his job is short lived.........Most of the time that requires winning or at least being competitive....

[JR2004]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
and if you are so concerned about where your tax dollars are going and your right to do whatever...how many times have you gone to the choirs performances and spent time noting what that director is doing wrong and if he's getting those kids full potential? How many times have you done that with the theater group or the band? Ever gone to a UIL competition to see if the UIL coaches are getting thos kids' full potential? Remember...you're paying their salries too right? Just wondering....

Can you imagine how funny that would be to see someone screaming and yelling at a UIL band or choir competition? I'd actually pay to watch that happen!

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by JR2004
Can you imagine how funny that would be to see someone screaming and yelling at a UIL band or choir competition? I'd actually pay to watch that happen!

believe me....I would too!

[cotulla]

But if he doesn't keep the MASSES happy then he his job is short lived...

so are the masses thinking in a constructive un-biased manner? Hell no, they are parents!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
no...the requirement of a public servant is to serve the public. There are ALWAYS going to be people unhappy. Its as simple as that. Does a police officer who writes numerous tickets and upsets people who got tickets lose his job because he has made a few mad for doing his job?

A coach is ALWAYS going to make somebody mad who doesn't agree with the coaches philosophies, expectations, fundamentals, etc. A coaches job is to win games of course but people who truly understand the game will see and know if that coach is getting the most he possibly can from the hand he's given! And guess what? Its not up to the "spectator" to make that call and make a decision on whether or not that coach is doing his job....its's his Employers job to make that call!

First off I need to say that I agree with the concept of what you say. But I think the problem here is that you are arguing idealism and I am arguing reality. (or at least my reality).
A Police Officer IS required to perform his duties in a manner that is acceptable to the public. Even if his "BOSS" tells him something different he will be toast if he does something that is deemed inappropriate by the public. You can't argue that point.
It happens all the time.
Saying the public has no say so in the coaches job performance is much akin to saying they don't have a say in the President's job performance...........It doesn't hold water.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I apoligize to everyone is I took this to a different level. I was addressing the statement by Ernest T. Bass that he gets tired of the "Idiots in the stands" who tell the coach they should run a certain type of offense or defense. I was simply making the statement that just because they are the coach it does not give them a flyer on all decisions and actions. If they lose they have to expect to answer for it.... That's basic human nature. If you or I fail at our job then we have to answer for it. "Fail" is a subjective term in coaching but if you consider the "Idiots" in the stands are the ones paying the coach then their definitions of "fail" holds more weight. I would chose to have it a different way but I don't think it is......
Well, I finally made it to the bottom of page one. I'm sure I'll find more things I feel the need to comment on as I continue on.


At what point is the fan not an idiot and the coach is one, because the fan is not and knows more than the coach? Do you honestly think that teams who are losing are the only teams that have the fans question and second guess every single play called on the field? It's funny (not really) how a team, with virtually every coach the same, can be in the middle of the 36th game of a 38 game win streak and the fans STILL know more than the coaches and players and want "different plays". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: All I can say is until you've actually done it (no I haven't, but my dad did), you can never quite understand. It's more than calling plays. If it was that simple, I could study a play book and call myself "coach".

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
and if you are so concerned about where your tax dollars are going and your right to do whatever...how many times have you gone to the choirs performances and spent time noting what that director is doing wrong and if he's getting those kids full potential? How many times have you done that with the theater group or the band? Ever gone to a UIL competition to see if the UIL coaches are getting thos kids' full potential? Remember...you're paying their salries too right? Just wondering....


I don't know what relevance this has on the discussion but if you ever tell me I don't have a right to my opinion about the choir practice then I'm going to tell you about my 6 dollars again. You have been warned!!!!:D

But in truth it's a very good point. The diference? Band, Theater, UIL, and most others are on a grade scale. The performance of the teacher is based on the grades acheived by the students. The grade scale for sports is ........(wait for it)........(here it comes)........... Wins and loses!!!!!! BAM!!!! There it is!!! Bottom line!!! Wins and loses! Throw in all the PC crap about developing fine young men and women or teaching teamwork and how to lose with class and all that other stuff and it matters NOT. A coach who doesn't win doesn't hang around very long!
(disclaimer: There are exceptions to every rule. This was intended as a generalized statement.)

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by cotulla
But if he doesn't keep the MASSES happy then he his job is short lived...

so are the masses thinking in a constructive un-biased manner? Hell no, they are parents!


You are 100% correct. but it doesn't change anything. Whether informed, un-baised or thinking in a constructive manner is of no importance.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Well, I finally made it to the bottom of page one. I'm sure I'll find more things I feel the need to comment on as I continue on.


At what point is the fan not an idiot and the coach is one, because the fan is not and knows more than the coach? Do you honestly think that teams who are losing are the only teams that have the fans question and second guess every single play called on the field? It's funny (not really) how a team, with virtually every coach the same, can be in the middle of the 36th game of a 38 game win streak and the fans STILL know more than the coaches and players and want "different plays". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: All I can say is until you've actually done it (no I haven't, but my dad did), you can never quite understand. It's more than calling plays. If it was that simple, I could study a play book and call myself "coach".


At what point is the copier repairman a idiot for telling you the copier is working when you know it isn't. What training do you have to justify calling that repair man wrong?
But again I don't necessarily agree that things should be this way. I am simply saying that I beleive this is the reality of how things work. Bottom line is that a coach has to win or be competitive in order to keep his job for an extended period of time.
P.S.... nowhere did anyone comment about a winning streak or a team doing well. All these discussions where based on a failing or perceived failing team....

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
But in truth it's a very good point. The diference? Band, Theater, UIL, and most others are on a grade scale. The performance of the teacher is based on the grades acheived by the students. The grade scale for sports is ........(wait for it)........(here it comes)........... Wins and loses!!!!!! BAM!!!! There it is!!! Bottom line!!! Wins and loses!

yes and no..Band, Theatre and UIL teams compete...Difference is, fans dont complain about those if they dont win

a big exception is Canton..There band is HUGE..and if they dont win the band director will not be around long.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Another insite for ya'll. The numbnuts yelling in the stands and blaming the coach for poor play, are doing it because their kid is a rotten football player.
and sometimes they yell because the team would be as well off if the numbnut coach was sitting on a tailgate behind the end zone fence drinking beer!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
and sometimes they yell because the team would be as well off if the numbnut coach was sitting on a tailgate behind the end zone fence drinking beer! haha oh boy :D


I think some fans just want to be "heard" and while some coaches have an open door policy and will "listen" to your suggestions, concerns, etc...how many of yall REALLY expect them to change something because YOU think it will work? How realistic is THAT!?

Think about it...you wouldn't want someone coming to your job telling you how you SHOULD be doing it. Just saying.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
haha oh boy :D


I think some fans just want to be "heard" and while some coaches have an open door policy and will "listen" to your suggestions, concerns, etc...how many of yall REALLY expect them to change something because YOU think it will work? How realistic is THAT!?

Think about it...you wouldn't want someone coming to your job telling you how you SHOULD be doing it. Just saying.


What if 100 people came to you and told you how to do your job? or 300? or 500? Once you have reached the point that the majority think you are doing a poor job then basically you either do a better job or you start looking for another job........
Sometimes it doesn't even have to be a majority. Just a large percent...

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
What if 100 people came to you and told you how to do your job? or 300? or 500? Once you have reached the point that the majority think you are doing a poor job then basically you either do a better job or you start looking for another job........
Sometimes it doesn't even have to be a majority. Just a large percent... Then I'd have to tell those people to find their own job if they have that much free time!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
P.S.... nowhere did anyone comment about a winning streak or a team doing well. All these discussions where based on a failing or perceived failing team....
I commented on the win streak and the team doing well. So, it's okay for the fan to criticize the coach when the team isn't doing well? The same fan is going to criticize the coach when they ARE winning and are doing well, with back-to-back championships and working up to a 38-game win streak. So in case there's any doubt, I am talking about idiot fans in the stands from Liberty Hill. "Run a different play coach - that one's not working." Yeah, it hasn't worked the last 8 years I guess. :rolleyes: "Good job coach - you finally got the best RB on the field." Yeah, I guess that's why he's not a starter. :doh:


Coaches get paid for what they do, and not nearly enough. Fans don't get paid at all - they do pay their money to "supposedly" support the team. And yes, there are coaches that are NOT good, period. And they usually end up being someone else's problem. (Thank goodness. ;) )

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Then I'd have to tell those people to find their own job if they have that much free time! that's the difference between having a job that puts you in the public eye and subjects you to criticism and having a job that doesn't so much. Just my $.02. Some jobs you have that luxury.....other jobs you don't. I know in my field that if someone came to me and told me I was doing a poor job and I better "adjust fire" I had better do so....

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
that's the difference between having a job that puts you in the public eye and subjects you to criticism and having a job that doesn't so much. Just my $.02. Some jobs you have that luxury.....other jobs you don't. I know in my field that if someone came to me and told me I was doing a poor job and I better "adjust fire" I had better do so....

So you want a "yes" man as your coach?? I find that hard to believe.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
that's the difference between having a job that puts you in the public eye and subjects you to criticism and having a job that doesn't so much. Just my $.02. Some jobs you have that luxury.....other jobs you don't. I know in my field that if someone came to me and told me I was doing a poor job and I better "adjust fire" I had better do so....
In "your" field, how well you do your job isn't determined by the performance of 12-18 year old kids.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
In "your" field, how well you do your job isn't determined by the performance of 12-18 year old kids. Nope...it's not...but I find that to be irrelevant to the argument. The point I was making is that when you have a job that puts you in the public eye, expect criticism, praise, and everything in between. Perception in such jobs is a big part of it.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Nope...it's not...but I find that to be relative to the argument. The point I was making is that when you have a job that puts you in the public eye, expect criticism, praise, and everything in between. Perception in such jobs is a big part of it.

Which is why I answered your question, with my opinion, that what it really takes to be a coach is first & foremost: THICK SKIN. ;)

Lord knows most of us on here would be able to censor ourselves if some "drunken Joe/idiot" came up to us and tried to tell us we were doing something wrong and how to fix it.

Just saying...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Nope...it's not...but I find that to be irrelevant to the argument. The point I was making is that when you have a job that puts you in the public eye, expect criticism, praise, and everything in between. Perception in such jobs is a big part of it.
How are the very people that the coach is supposed to coach irrelevant? Without them, there are no coaches! Sometimes, what sets a good coach apart from a "bad" one is the kids doing what they're taught every single play. I have seen very good coaches have teams that lose games. And I have seen very poor coaches have teams that win. It's not about wins and losses, but what the kids learn from that coach! I'd much rather my kids play for a good person and lose, than have them play for a jerk and win. What's even worse, is having them play for a jerk and lose!



Originally posted by IHStangFan
What makes a "coach"......and better yet....what sets the good ones apart from the bad ones and the great ones apart from the rest of them?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Which is why I answered your question, with my opinion, that what it really takes to be a coach is first & foremost: THICK SKIN. ;)

Lord knows most of us on here would be able to censor ourselves if some "drunken Joe/idiot" came up to us and tried to tell us we were doing something wrong and how to fix it.

Just saying... LOL...yeah true...but at the same time...I'll use LHPM's angle here.....in MY field...drunken joes would be shot on site for breaching security protocol. :D

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
LOL...yeah true...but at the same time...I'll use LHPM's angle here.....in MY field...drunken joes would be shot on site for breaching security protocol. :D
Unfortunately, coaches don't get that same luxury. :devil: :devil:

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
How are the very people that the coach is supposed to coach irrelevant? Without them, there are no coaches! Sometimes, what sets a good coach apart from a "bad" one is the kids doing what they're taught every single play. I have seen very good coaches have teams that lose games. And I have seen very poor coaches have teams that win. It's not about wins and losses, but what the kids learn from that coach! I'd much rather my kids play for a good person and lose, than have them play for a jerk and win. What's even worse, is having them play for a jerk and lose! Again....I feel you've missed my point. I REALIZE that kids/talent, or lack there of has a direct effects on the win/lose column to a point.....but what I was getting at is what had come up later in the thread about public perception. As stated by you and others....a coach can win and some will still be critics. At the same time...a coach w/ less talent....ah to heck w/ it...lets agree to disagree....I feel you've missed my point.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I feel you've missed my point.
I thought I got the point in the very first post. It sounded vaguely like an argument in the chat back during football season. ;)

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
What makes a "coach"......and better yet....what sets the good ones apart from the bad ones and the great ones apart from the rest of them?

Apart from having a teaching degree or one in kinesiology, etc.......were talking about coaching....what makes a coach a coach? Coach A's degree doesn't make him a better coach than Coach B.....so that's irrelevant....

A coach has to be a disciplinarian of sorts right?

A coach has to understand their specific arena and be somewhat of a strategist right?

A coach needs to be a motivator right and know how to get his kids to work as a unit....a team?

A coach needs to understand that to get 100% out of his kids there is probably going to have to be a little 1 on 1 face time and that each kid is going to be a little different....

A coach has to have patience at times.....

help me out here guys and gals.....what makes a coach a coach.....what makes the good ones good, and why do some think that we mere "mortals" are incapable of ever learning the trade or being successful at it?

Thanks in advance.

Coaches coach. Everyone else complains. Coaches complain about everyone else complaining. That about sums it up. Any more questions?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I thought I got the point in the very first post. It sounded vaguely like an argument in the chat back during football season. ;) That "argument" played a part in me pondering it and posting the thread....but my curiosity is genuine. I wanted to know what made a coach a good one, a bad one and everything inbetween......but at the same time....I'm curious as to why so many around here are so defensive about the whole issue and have this "coaches do no wrong you minion idiots" mentality.....I am trying to gain insight into these things to understand it better. I honestly think the hardest part of the job IS dealing w/ the pressures of the public criticism and the "you better play my kid" parents, etc....but some seem to think it takes some sort of tactical genius mind to pull it off....and I find that interesting as well. As stated in my original post...I believe it'd be a multi-fascited job where you'd have to have many skills .....in being a motivator, knowing how to bond and interact w/ the kids, being able to schedule, game strategy...blah blah blah...while I agree it's probably a time consuming, hectic job....I don't think it's rocket science and requires an IQ of 200 to do well.

[jimmyceatworld]

As I have skimmed through this thread it seems like most of the discussion is about the rights of fans to criticize coaches. What surprises me is not that coaches are criticized but the extremes that fans go to.

In no other setting would anyone expect to see a spectator scream at the top of his/her lungs at someone and it sometimes be permissable. This is unacceptable to me.

I don't have a problem with fans questioning decision making but how many time do you think fans speak to a coach in private, genuinely concerned about the team's well being. That even sounds weird as I type it.

Fanatics that yell and scream at coaches should be escorted from the stands immediately. There are no excuses for the behavior I've seen by fellow spectators too many times.

It doesn't matter if the coach doesn't have the slightest clue, the way many fans act is ridiculous both during the game and behind the coaches back which is another equally as damaging story.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Look, coaches just want the same respect that other professions get. You'd never claim to be a better lawyer or doctor than someone who actually is one, b/c you dont know crap about how to do it unless you have. It takes years of study and hard work to be able to do those jobs. Coaching is no different. Unless you've devoted the years, and hours every week, to the profession, you have no idea what it's really about. Playing and watching football makes you no more of a coach than being a patient and watching ER makes you a doctor. But damned if every guy who played 2nd team defensive end in HS and watches football doesn't think he can coach.
It's frustrating enough trying to overcome a lack of athletic ability in some kids, and a lack of mental/moral ability in a alot of kids. But, that's our job, to make football players and men out of young boys. And 9 times outta 10, you'll never hear a coach seriously complain about that. But, when we have to deal with grown men on top of that, it gets bad. Unless a coach is actually hurting your child, let him do his job. Unless you've been in the trenches, I can promise you that those guys on the sideline who spend over 100 hours every week preparing for their opponent have forgotten more about it than you know. I'm sorry...I disagree....kinda...lemme explain...you go on and on about how nobody but a coach has any idea about coaching and use the ER and the TV show "ER" as an example.....and you're right...I couldn't perform a heart transplant...but if I was watching one...and the surgeon came into the operating room in a clown suit with a chainsaw in his hands...I'm intelligent enough to know....."that ain't right" . So lets agree to disagree.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I'm curious as to why so many around here are so defensive about the whole issue and have this "coaches do no wrong you minion idiots" mentality.....
Who said they do no wrong? :doh: I already said there are bad coaches. In my opinion a good coach is one who gets everything out of a kid that the kid has to give. They're teachers. The same parent B&M to the coach because Little Johnny is riding the bench is probably unlikely to B&M to the English I teacher because Little Johnny is making a bad grade. (LJ's dad should've been filing a FOI thingy to get the future 3rd grade teacher's name instead of the future coach's. :devil: )

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
As soon as you see a coach do something similar to that, let me know. Running a play that didn't work, and then running a play that looks similar and still doesn't work, isn't similar. Either is running a defense that has been a part of some lopsided games. However, taking off his headset and refusing to coach during what appears to be a loss is a good example(no longer in the profession), and telling kids that they lost b/c God wanted them to lose the game is another one(he's now gone, too). So, if you see something like that, feel free to contact the supt and file a complaint. And again....I know enough about football to be able to tell one play from another....especially in a typical HS offense. Please stop insulting my intelligence and pretending that nobody but a coach can pick out, and understand a basic run play.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Who said they do no wrong? :doh: I already said there are bad coaches. In my opinion a good coach is one who gets everything out of a kid that the kid has to give. They're teachers. The same parent B&M to the coach because Little Johnny is riding the bench is probably unlikely to B&M to the English I teacher because Little Johnny is making a bad grade. (LJ's dad should've been filing a FOI thingy to get the future 3rd grade teacher's name instead of the future coach's. :devil: ) and I'm not arguing w/ you about that!! LOL....there are bad fans...there are bad coaches, there are good fans...there are good coaches....but neither are blameless or solely responsible in either case!! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!

There is more than one argument going on here, LOL...

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
From my experience, this is not true about 98% of the time. I doubt you can explain the difference between lead, gap, blast, midline, and iso. Most can't, b/c the back action is almost the same for all. They're all runs up the middle, but all very different plays. I seriously doubt you could draw up any of them accurately. my question is.....if they're so similar that most of us couldn't denote the difference...and one isn't working....why would one so similar, but different make any difference? Is THAT what makes a coaching genius? "This play hasn't worked yet...so I'm going to try ANOTHER play that looks so much like it that nobody will notice the difference......" including the defence that has stuffed it the three previous times. Tell me how that is good coaching and please explain your mindset when you call plays in this manner? I'm curious...please educate me. To me that's like plugging a 110v appliance into a 240v recepticle...and when it blows up in your face....removing the plug...bending the prongs a little and sticking it right back in. We can go around and around all day long...you see it your way...I see it mine.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
my question is.....if they're so similar that most of us couldn't denote the difference...and one isn't working....why would one so similar, but different make any difference? Is THAT what makes a coaching genius? "This play hasn't worked yet...so I'm going to try ANOTHER play that looks so much like it that nobody will notice the difference......" including the defence that has stuffed it the three previous times. Tell me how that is good coaching and please explain your mindset when you call plays in this manner? I'm curious...please educate me. To me that's like plugging a 110v appliance into a 240v recepticle...and when it blows up in your face....removing the plug...bending the prongs a little and sticking it right back in. We can go around and around all day long...you see it your way...I see it mine.

his point is....the backfield action looks very similar but the blocking schemes are different. So a play may look the same, like just a run up the middle, but the way the play is blocked it makes it very different.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
his point is....the backfield action looks very similar but the blocking schemes are different. So a play may look the same, like just a run up the middle, but the way the play is blocked it makes it very different.
...and when I played guard, it was fun when I got to pull and get out in front against a DB :) haha ok, back to the pee contest! :p

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
his point is....the backfield action looks very similar but the blocking schemes are different. So a play may look the same, like just a run up the middle, but the way the play is blocked it makes it very different. and my point was.....in the original conversation in chat months ago....that it didn't matter in the discussed game WHAT they did...any attempt to go up the middle was stuffed.....all night long....no matter the blocking scheme....so in the grand scheme of things...it didn't really matter if there were minute changes up front or not...so why keep running variations of a play that isn't working in any format? And he blew up about how nobody but a coach knows football.

[IHStangFan]

Look guys....I'm not here to pick a fight or bash on coaches. I know their job can be challenging. I honestly wanted some insight from coaches and fans alike on what makes or breaks a coach. But early on it seemed some of our coaches and others on the board went on a "all fans are idiots and know nothing about footbal....joe drinks a lot" rant....and I don't agree w/ that sediment...especially ALL fans being lumped into that category. I will not pretend to know how to coach a group of kids...but I have an IDEA of what it might take. My idea may not be totally accurate, but I don't think just because I'm not a HS coach that I can't understand the game, follow and process what I'm seeing. I don't build bridges..but if I saw a crew constructing one out of toothpicks....I'm not structural engineer....but I wouldn't drive a semi across it........my point is...though we may not be coaches, we may just understand the game enough to have an opinion.....and beings a coaching position puts a coach in the public spotlight and the fact that this person is directly interacting w/ my kids...gives me the right to praise, criticise, and everything else without being called in "idiot/drunken joe" for it.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
In "your" field, how well you do your job isn't determined by the performance of 12-18 year old kids.


And a coaches performance isn't normally determined by the performance of 12-18 years olds either. It's the actions, decisions and choices of the coach himself that determines his performance. If a 12 year old isn't getting the job done then the coach also isn't getting the job done if he doesn't teach/force/enable/adjust or whatever he has to do to make sure the job gets done. To accept the job not getting done is what brings out the "Idiots" that so many have talked about!!!!! Now we have come full circle it appears.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And a coaches performance isn't normally determined by the performance of 12-18 years olds either. It's the actions, decisions and choices of the coach himself that determines his performance. If a 12 year old isn't getting the job done then the coach also isn't getting the job done if he doesn't teach/force/enable/adjust or whatever he has to do to make sure the job gets done. To accept the job not getting done is what brings out the "Idiots" that so many have talked about!!!!! Now we have come full circle it appears.


the problem is the expectations..if a coach is getting everything he can out of his team and they finish 2-8, he is doing his job, but people will not be happy and assume he is NOT doing his job

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Look, coaches just want the same respect that other professions get. You'd never claim to be a better lawyer or doctor than someone who actually is one, b/c you dont know crap about how to do it unless you have. It takes years of study and hard work to be able to do those jobs. Coaching is no different. Unless you've devoted the years, and hours every week, to the profession, you have no idea what it's really about. Playing and watching football makes you no more of a coach than being a patient and watching ER makes you a doctor. But damned if every guy who played 2nd team defensive end in HS and watches football doesn't think he can coach.
It's frustrating enough trying to overcome a lack of athletic ability in some kids, and a lack of mental/moral ability in a alot of kids. But, that's our job, to make football players and men out of young boys. And 9 times outta 10, you'll never hear a coach seriously complain about that. But, when we have to deal with grown men on top of that, it gets bad. Unless a coach is actually hurting your child, let him do his job. Unless you've been in the trenches, I can promise you that those guys on the sideline who spend over 100 hours every week preparing for their opponent have forgotten more about it than you know.


This is a all time high for me. I just found out that being a coach is equal to being a doctor or lawyer. Dang! I had no idea!!!!!!!!-
But if this is true then if you took your darling daughter to the doctor for a pimple treatment and he shaved her head and performed brain surgery then you must just shut the hell up because after all you really don't know medicine. Right?
And what I find so amazin' is that if coaching is sooooooo difficult and underpaid then why do we have thousands of new coaches coming out every year? I'm not saying it's a easy job but let's not turn it into splitting atoms...................

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
the problem is the expectations..if a coach is getting everything he can out of his team and they finish 2-8, he is doing his job, but people will not be happy and assume he is NOT doing his job sanity!! This I can agree with. Thank you Txb. That's all one can ask of the coach.

[pirate4state]

for crying out loud

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by pirate4state
for crying out loud
my mom said that alot growing up :(

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
for crying out loud why is it that you always feel compelled to make such statements/comments following debates and conversations that involve me? Or is this just a coincidence? Just wondering.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
the problem is the expectations..if a coach is getting everything he can out of his team and they finish 2-8, he is doing his job, but people will not be happy and assume he is NOT doing his job


And on the surface I 100% agree with this Txbroadcaster. The one area that is up for debate is determining "IF" the coach is getting everything he can out of his team. Who's decision is this. The coach? The parents? The kids?
I believe it's like you said- it's subjective.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
why is it that you always feel compelled to make such statements/comments following debates and conversations that involve me? Or is this just a coincidence? Just wondering. do you feel like the man in the box haha :p ;)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
do you feel like the man in the box haha :p ;) LOL...sometimes.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
do you feel like the man in the box haha :p ;) PS....like you're new avatar.....who is that handsome mystery fella?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
PS....like you're new avatar.....who is that handsome mystery fella? ah, old hs buddy! haha

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
why is it that you always feel compelled to make such statements/comments following debates and conversations that involve me? Or is this just a coincidence? Just wondering. in the case of this thread i was interested and felt like commenting. the "for crying out loud" was a blanket comment for everything i had read from the last time i was logged in. nothing personal against you, if it were i would have quoted you.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
in the case of this thread i was interested and felt like commenting. the "for crying out loud" was a blanket comment for everything i had read from the last time i was logged in. nothing personal against you, if it were i would have quoted you. you shut your mouth when you're talkin to me!! was just checkin. :D Lots of varied opinions here, heated debates, etc. Exactly what I was looking for. Diverse opinions. Which fuels more debate.....self-perpetuating thread....just what we need during the off-season to keep this place goin. :clap:

Honestly though......what do YOU think? No cute comments.....an honest, in depth P4S analysis. Lay it on us.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
ah, old hs buddy! haha you went to school w/ Beldar? :D

(a little comic relief!)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
you went to school w/ Beldar? :D

(a little comic relief!) yup we narfled the Garthug!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yup we narfled the Garthug! I'm laughing so hard out loud right now.....my daughter is laughing with me (although she's too young to know why we're laughing) and my wife is looking at me suspiciously, LOL!!!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And a coaches performance isn't normally determined by the performance of 12-18 years olds either. It's the actions, decisions and choices of the coach himself that determines his performance. If a 12 year old isn't getting the job done then the coach also isn't getting the job done if he doesn't teach/force/enable/adjust or whatever he has to do to make sure the job gets done. To accept the job not getting done is what brings out the "Idiots" that so many have talked about!!!!! Now we have come full circle it appears.
To you, what determines whether a coach is a good coach or not? Is it wins/losses? Is it calling plays that "always" work? I seriously would like to know, because we all have our opinion.


A coach can only work with the kids he's given on any team. Sometimes those kids are not very athletic. Is that the coach's fault? If he gets the most out of them, they still may not be very athletic & no teaching/forcing/adjusting or whatever is going to change that. If he gets them to try their best, he has done what he can with that group, win or lose. A coach can't force what genetically isn't there.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
To you, what determines whether a coach is a good coach or not? Is it wins/losses? Is it calling plays that "always" work? I seriously would like to know, because we all have our opinion.


A coach can only work with the kids he's given on any team. Sometimes those kids are not very athletic. Is that the coach's fault? If he gets the most out of them, they still may not be very athletic & no teaching/forcing/adjusting or whatever is going to change that. If he gets them to try their best, he has done what he can with that group, win or lose. A coach can't force what genetically isn't there. nope...not at all...I pretty much agree w/ what Txb said.... Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? Are you not reading the entire thread? Also...why so defensive and touchy?

[TinyTim]

Coaching......what does it really take?

Good players.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
To you, what determines whether a coach is a good coach or not? Is it wins/losses? Is it calling plays that "always" work? I seriously would like to know, because we all have our opinion.


A coach can only work with the kids he's given on any team. Sometimes those kids are not very athletic. Is that the coach's fault? If he gets the most out of them, they still may not be very athletic & no teaching/forcing/adjusting or whatever is going to change that. If he gets them to try their best, he has done what he can with that group, win or lose. A coach can't force what genetically isn't there. quote:Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
the problem is the expectations..if a coach is getting everything he can out of his team and they finish 2-8, he is doing his job, but people will not be happy and assume he is NOT doing his job

and I replied to Txb....

"sanity!! This I can agree with. Thank you Txb. That's all one can ask of the coach."

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
you shut your mouth when you're talkin to me!! was just checkin. :D Lots of varied opinions here, heated debates, etc. Exactly what I was looking for. Diverse opinions. Which fuels more debate.....self-perpetuating thread....just what we need during the off-season to keep this place goin. :clap:

Honestly though......what do YOU think? No cute comments.....an honest, in depth P4S analysis. Lay it on us.

i love that line, might go in the signature sometime next week!

in depth p4s analysis :thinking:

I think that coaches have a very hard job that you couldn't pay me enough to do!

Reading and/or hearing the standard "if you think you can do my job go get a degree, blah, blah, blah" some coaches use is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It's just so condescending. I know, I've been accused of being condescending, A LOT, so I recognize the tone.

I think that if the fans think they have a right to yell out "c'mon coach run/pass the ball", then he/she better be man/woman enough to confront that coach to his/her face!

The good coaches don't hear that stuff anyway they are busy trying to win a game that they've prepared for since Saturday and have had 3-4 days to work with a group of 15-18 year old boys and hope they've done a good enough job so that the kids know where they should be on any given play. And guess what? Sometimes those boys don't execute those plans and then you get Joe Dirt yelling that "coach" doesn't know what he's doing.

That's all I want to say about it right now. I've erased alot of different thoughts LOL...hate when that happens. Oh well...take it or leave it.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
i love that line, might go in the signature sometime next week!

in depth p4s analysis :thinking:

I think that coaches have a very hard job that you couldn't pay me enough to do!

Reading and/or hearing the standard "if you think you can do my job go get a degree, blah, blah, blah" some coaches use is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It's just so condescending. I know, I've been accused of being condescending, A LOT, so I recognize the tone.

I think that if the fans think they have a right to yell out "c'mon coach run/pass the ball", then he/she better be man/woman enough to confront that coach to his/her face!

The good coaches don't hear that stuff anyway they are busy trying to win a game that they've prepared for since Saturday and have had 3-4 days to work with a group of 15-18 year old boys and hope they've done a good enough job so that the kids know where they should be on any given play. And guess what? Sometimes those boys don't execute those plans and then you get Joe Dirt yelling that "coach" doesn't know what he's doing.

That's all I want to say about it right now. I've erased alot of different thoughts LOL...hate when that happens. Oh well...take it or leave it. :clap: Well actually, I think that was pretty well put.....AND you got a "Joe Dirt" in there! :D

Seriously though...good post.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
This actually proves my point. If we had a chalkboard feature in the chat room like the Huey site does(AHEM! LPHM?, Ranger Mama?), I could show you how "up the middle gets stuffed" really doesn't mean anything. If the ISO doesn't work, there's specific reason. It could be isolated or it could be a problem all night, depending on what it is. Maybe the guard isn't getting off the line. So, maybe you go with an influence trap next. That doesn't work, more than likely, the PSB is stuffing the FB, so next you go with a cutback or a counter. To most, all of these are "runs up the middle", but they are all very different plays. The reason I, and KA, see this while most cant? We spend an ungodly amount of time studying this stuff. That's the main difference. I have no doubt that you could do it, IHS, if you spent he time and energy that we have. That's really all it is.
As for FarmerFan, Im very good friends with both Dodsons at FHS. Ive heard stories about idiots like you(yes, I just called you an idiot). And actualy, we're more important than doctors and lawyers. We help a helluva lot more people than they do, and we only get paid about $1.10 an hour to do it. And if all we had to do was deal with the people we're trying to help, it would be heaven. But, idiots like you make it miserable at times. That was actually insightful....thank you ETB. I've learned a little something this evening. My only question would be....and I'm not trying to be a smartarse here.....I really want the insight here from a coach......senario....

You've got a pretty good running game, you usually lead with it, but have proven more then once your passing game can be effective as well...especially against a team loading the box on you.....Their DBs don't really present any mismatches against your WRs and your QB is more than capable of getting them them the ball....they OL is able to buy him adequate time.......You keep getting stuck up the middle...and you are having trouble getting around the corner.....would you not at least TRY one over the top, to...if nothing more....loosen up the D a bit and keep em honest?

I'm not implying....i'm asking....wouldn't that be somewhere in the game plan?

Thanks for your response in advance ETB.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
nope...not at all...I pretty much agree w/ what Txb said.... Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? Are you not reading the entire thread? Also...why so defensive and touchy?
Why don't you look who I'm quoting and not presume I'm talking to you?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Why don't you look who I'm quoting and not presume I'm talking to you? Crap...my bad...I apologize....just got used to you quoting me in there I guess, LOL. I'm sorry.

[RiverRat19]

I know that my coaches were successful in instilling life skills that I have used in my life since I have learned them. I was fortunate to have some very good coaches but they were only "successful" in the eyes of the public if we were winning. Really and truly if they taught us how to make good decisions while in school, on teams and then later in adult life, they were really the most successful. These skills and habits we learned from them paired with our level of ability were what made my teams winning programs...

X's and O's like someone said before is great and technical knowledge but in the end it can't trump superior talent. Perfect schemes won't be effective without a base level of talent executing the plans and technique correctly. Coaching is overrated and underrated... it is all relative.

Like many things in life, the more a coach works at their profession the more successful they could be. Many other variables such as level of competition, player talent, community and school district support, and a little bit of luck determine a win-loss record.

The better prepared coaches themselves are and how well they prepare their teams are the things they can control the most. Fans only see the competitions, they don't watch all the players' performances in practices so when things don't go to plan, their perception of why "that play won't work" seems simple when in reality there is much more behind it.

Just some of my thoughts on the topic...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Crap...my bad...I apologize....just got used to you quoting me in there I guess, LOL. I'm sorry.
No sweat. :p And I actually played basketball for a bad coach, at least what I consider to be bad and had a son play for one, as well. If your players don't like you at the end of the day because you worked them hard and were tough on them, that's their problem. If your players don't like you at the end of the day because you treated them like dog turds, then that's your problem. Win or lose, no matter what game it is or what offense/defense you run, in the end, the coach that worked the players hard ends the day with mutual respect; the coach that was a jerk is pretty much that way regardless.

All this is just my opinion - I'm entitled to it, as are you. :)

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
and sometimes they yell because the team would be as well off if the numbnut coach was sitting on a tailgate behind the end zone fence drinking beer!

I can tell this guy is either a football failure or his kid is.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And on the surface I 100% agree with this Txbroadcaster. The one area that is up for debate is determining "IF" the coach is getting everything he can out of his team. Who's decision is this. The coach? The parents? The kids?
I believe it's like you said- it's subjective.

Go ahead and tell us, how many splinters did you kid get riding that pine this year?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
This actually proves my point. If we had a chalkboard feature in the chat room like the Huey site does(AHEM! LPHM?, Ranger Mama?), I could show you how "up the middle gets stuffed" really doesn't mean anything. If the ISO doesn't work, there's specific reason. It could be isolated or it could be a problem all night, depending on what it is. Maybe the guard isn't getting off the line. So, maybe you go with an influence trap next. That doesn't work, more than likely, the PSB is stuffing the FB, so next you go with a cutback or a counter. To most, all of these are "runs up the middle", but they are all very different plays. The reason I, and KA, see this while most cant? We spend an ungodly amount of time studying this stuff. That's the main difference. I have no doubt that you could do it, IHS, if you spent he time and energy that we have. That's really all it is.
As for FarmerFan, Im very good friends with both Dodsons at FHS. Ive heard stories about idiots like you(yes, I just called you an idiot). And actualy, we're more important than doctors and lawyers. We help a helluva lot more people than they do, and we only get paid about $1.10 an hour to do it. And if all we had to do was deal with the people we're trying to help, it would be heaven. But, idiots like you make it miserable at times.


WOW! It sounds like someone has a bit of a inferiority complex. For starters we were discussing the PUBLIC opinions and expectations concerning coaches and not MY personal opinions or expectations. I posted what I though was the general public views and opinions. But I do see the problem with having a discussion with you. You have an elevated sense of self importance and no real touch with reality. Criticism of your chosen profession does not alway reflect badly on you personally. Perhaps you should spend more time on self esteem development instead of being on here telling us all how a coach is more important than doctors. Now would you like to continue the personal attacks or would you like to exchange opinions and ideas like this forum was design to do????????

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
WOW! It sounds like someone has a bit of a inferiority complex. For starters we were discussing the PUBLIC opinions and expectations concerning coaches and not MY personal opinions or expectations. I posted what I though was the general public views and opinions. But I do see the problem with having a discussion with you. You have an elevated sense of self importance and no real touch with reality. Criticism of your chosen profession does not alway reflect badly on you personally. Perhaps you should spend more time on self esteem development instead of being on here telling us all how a coach is more important than doctors. Now would you like to continue the personal attacks or would you like to exchange opinions and ideas like this forum was design to do????????

Wow sounds like someone sat the bench!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
To you, what determines whether a coach is a good coach or not? Is it wins/losses? Is it calling plays that "always" work? I seriously would like to know, because we all have our opinion.


A coach can only work with the kids he's given on any team. Sometimes those kids are not very athletic. Is that the coach's fault? If he gets the most out of them, they still may not be very athletic & no teaching/forcing/adjusting or whatever is going to change that. If he gets them to try their best, he has done what he can with that group, win or lose. A coach can't force what genetically isn't there.


I personally don't have the foggiest idea of what makes a coach great. Any more than I know what makes a police officer great or a doctor great or anyone else. That is a subjective term and means different things to different people. I do however think I can decide when I see a coach, policeman, doctor or politician who isn't great. At the same time I recognize that it is MY opinion and might not be everyones opinion. And I am entitled to my opinion. The whole idea put forth by some that I should just "shut up" because I don't coach is a moronic idea. I work in Government and see first hand on a daily basis how the public can be judgemental of my actions. They don't have a clue about the study, prep and education that I have in order to do the job. They simply want results. Should it be that way? I don't know. I realize all the good things a coach does for our kids in school. They provide a very, very valuable service and are in most cases really underpaid. But they are also answerable for their actions. Do they have to answer to ME? Or YOU? Or Drunken Joe? No! But they do have to answer to the MASSES. If the majority of the people decide the coach isn't doing a good job then regardless of the "UNKNOWNS" it is reality. The same is true with my job. And I thank you for being mature enough to not turn this into a personal attack.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Wow sounds like someone sat the bench!


Poncho! I'm just curious as to how you make this leap in logic. Can you shed some light on it?

[TinyTim]

I am not a high school coach, but I have had the opportunity to coach a varsity basketball team in more than 100 games over the past two summers. We have been fortunate in that we have won more than 85% of our games. Numerous tournaments and finished second in the Great American Shoot-out in Denton. We have played , competed and won at the highesst level against teams from all over the nation.

The most important thing about being a coach is understaning the kids, their feelings, and gaining their trust. Combine that with GOOD COMMUNICATION (the most important aspect) and I think weather you win or lose, the team will grow and get better. This inturn makes better young men. Players on a team just need a stable routine and to know their role on the team. Many coaches don't communicate or can't communicate properly with their players which always leads to uncertainty and confusion on the team. If the kid is uncertain he always assumes the worse. So communication and motivation is key. I can honestly say that coaching has help me to grow as a person by listening to the players. We are never to old to learn as coaches and it is never to late to get better and help a team get better.

[Black_Magic]

I find it very funny hearing the uninformed vocal folks in the stands standing up and showing the rest of the fans how stupid they are. It reminds me of the saying " Better for everyone to think you are an idiot than it is for you to open your mouth and prove them right". I think its great! It ads a bit of humor to the game for the smarter folks at the game.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Poncho! I'm just curious as to how you make this leap in logic. Can you shed some light on it?

I can tell you are a bitter person that has an ax to grind with some coach.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by TinyTim
I am not a high school coach, but I have had the opportunity to coach a varsity basketball team in more than 100 games over the past two summers. We have been fortunate in that we have won more than 85% of our games. Numerous tournaments and finished second in the Great American Shoot-out in Denton. We have played , competed and won at the highesst level against teams from all over the nation.

The most important thing about being a coach is understaning the kids, their feelings, and gaining their trust. Combine that with GOOD COMMUNICATION (the most important aspect) and I think weather you win or lose, the team will grow and get better. This inturn makes better young men. Players on a team just need a stable routine and to know their role on the team. Many coaches don't communicate or can't communicate properly with their players which always leads to uncertainty and confusion on the team. If the kid is uncertain he always assumes the worse. So communication and motivation is key. I can honestly say that coaching has help me to grow as a person by listening to the players. We are never to old to learn as coaches and it is never to late to get better and help a team get better.

Is your arm ok? I was wondering cause I thought you might of hyperextended it patting yourself on the back.

[TinyTim]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I find it very funny hearing the uninformed vocal folks in the stands standing up and showing the rest of the fans how stupid they are. It reminds me of the saying " Better for everyone to think you are an idiot than it is for you to open your mouth and prove them right". I think its great! It ads a bit of humor to the game for the smarter folks at the game.

Glad to be of some service and entertainment.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by TinyTim
Glad to be of some service and entertainment. your one of those loud guys??? Gee thanks for the laughs. The game would not be the same without the ocasional loud comical remarks.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by pancho villa
I can tell this guy is either a football failure or his kid is.
I guess that's why some folks make fun of baseball. Because they aint/weren't no good at it, and niether is their kid!

Pop another top coach.:p

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
I guess that's why some folks make fun of baseball. Because they aint/weren't no good at it, and niether is their kid!

Pop another top coach.:p

Great comeback from a ain't no good at it bench warmer and such.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Great comeback from a ain't no good at it bench warmer and such.
Thanks!!

[Bullaholic]

I think all of you are partly right in your assumptions about and by actual coaches.

Fans do have the right to be critical of coaching just as they have the right to voice their displeasure with an umpire's or official's call from the stands. What and when a fan says and how they say it are the determining factors, and I believe there are limits.
Personal insults and use of profanity of any kind go over the line.

Coaches have the right to ask fans and parents to refrain from coaching from the stands or yelling at players for any reason----especially when one of their own kids is playing. Coaches should not have to endure any form of personal insult---they are people, too, and may have friends and family in the stands. I think a good coach will listen to any person 1-on-1 about his coaching and will attempt, within reason, explain, not defend, his game coaching decisions and/or methods. We here in Bridgeport are blessed with a head coach who shows every week's game film on Monday nights and explains the outcome of every play with a laser pointer and will answer any question, anytime. Further, he is willing to talk about football as long as you want to discuss it, not argue. I have done this many times and always come away with a complete understanding of what happened in a particular game situation when I thought I knew, and it always serves to remind me why I am a businessman and he is the head coach.

This topic is another one of those threads where you can only express your opinion and understand that opinions---especially strong ones--cannot be argued, but merely exchanged. Otherwise, things will just degenerate into an insult exchange, and we all know there are no "winners" there. I have enjoyed reading all of your opinions, but I skip over the name-calling in a hurry.

[cookiemonster]

You know what makes you a good coach.

Location- Location- Location

Coach were the talent is and you will win. If you win you will be considered a good coach.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
I can tell you are a bitter person that has an ax to grind with some coach.


Nice! You can "tell". I yeild because you can "TELL".

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Nice! You can "tell". I yeild because you can "TELL".

I feel for you. I know life is not always fair to some of you. But do the best with the hand you were delt.

[TinyTim]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
your one of those loud guys??? Gee thanks for the laughs. The game would not be the same without the ocasional loud comical remarks.

That's what I'm about. Making other peoples lives better. That makes a good coach. Passion about the sport.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I find it very funny hearing the uninformed vocal folks in the stands standing up and showing the rest of the fans how stupid they are. It reminds me of the saying " Better for everyone to think you are an idiot than it is for you to open your mouth and prove them right". I think its great! It ads a bit of humor to the game for the smarter folks at the game.



WOW! I really want to be one of the "smarter folks"! That guy yelling at the coach must be uninformed because he doesn't think like we do! Right Black Magic? But wait! We really don't know the extent of his Informedness so because we are speaking up when we really don't know then I guess we in truth are also uninformed. Dang! So are we now not included in the "smarter folks" group? And is there a make-up test to get back into this group?
I'm just having fun with you. But really it makes no sense to put a label on someone because they "Speak up".... You know...Glass Houses and throwing stones......... All that jazz!!!!:D :D :D

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
I feel for you. I know life is not always fair to some of you. But do the best with the hand you were delt.


My life's mission is complete. Your pity is all I ever wanted. but I could use a little insight into that superior intellect that enables you to so throughly examine a person from just a few posts on a internet forum. If you could share that secret I might actually be able to go out into the world and use this amazing tool to bring about world peace and happiness. Or is this something that only exists in your little world? Either way, I am completely amazed!

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
My life's mission is complete. Your pity is all I ever wanted. but I could use a little insight into that superior intellect that enables you to so throughly examine a person from just a few posts on a internet forum. If you could share that secret I might actually be able to go out into the world and use this amazing tool to bring about world peace and happiness. Or is this something that only exists in your little world? Either way, I am completely amazed!

It's not hard to read your posts and see you are a deeply troubled person. I am willing to bet you were picked on as a child. I hope you are able to overcome this and be proud of who you are. Even if it is as a benchwarmer.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
WOW! I really want to be one of the "smarter folks"! That guy yelling at the coach must be uninformed because he doesn't think like we do! Right Black Magic? But wait! We really don't know the extent of his Informedness so because we are speaking up when we really don't know then I guess we in truth are also uninformed. Dang! So are we now not included in the "smarter folks" group? And is there a make-up test to get back into this group?
I'm just having fun with you. But really it makes no sense to put a label on someone because they "Speak up".... You know...Glass Houses and throwing stones......... All that jazz!!!!:D :D :D

There have been plenty of times where I could have put my life on the line if I would have spoken up to correct the masses when they were yelling/complaing about a penalty that they believed was incorrect that was correctly called!

It seems to me like both sides of this argument are forgetting some parts of the equation. Are there people in the stands who don't have a clue what's going on? Absolutely! Are there people in the stands that do have a clue? Absolutely!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I personally don't have the foggiest idea of what makes a coach great. Any more than I know what makes a police officer great or a doctor great or anyone else. That is a subjective term and means different things to different people.
I think that's the key to this discussion - differing opinions of what makes them good or bad. What's important to me in a coach, some of you, maybe even most, couldn't care less, and vice-versa.

And Rita - I'm gonna go ahead & say if for you: for crying out loud! :p But this needs to be said, or rather I need to say it. It will (hopefully) explain some of my previous comments on this thread. I'll try to give the Reader's Digest version so no one :sleeping: .

The summer before my sophomore year, we moved (once again) to a new town. 2-3 days before school started, I cut the inside of my ankle on a circular saw (don't ask), had to have stitches, and couldn't actually participate in athletic period for several days. The coach did NOT like this. This was back in the days of split court for females. We were a small school but still had enough girls play to have 3 full teams, plus several subs on each team. (Freshmen were not "allowed" to be on varsity there.)

Basketball started and it didn't take me long to figure out that for some reason, she didn't like those of us who would be the JV basketball team and loved the freshman team. (I'm sure I'll get the standard "you must've been a bench warmer & are bitter" comments. :p If you actually make it to the end, it will make sense.) She would play the freshmen in their game, then would play the freshmen, or at least some of them, in the JV game. She make sure that none of the freshmen played more than the allotted amount of games each week. And the sophomores, for the most part, sat on the bench. A couple of girls quit, then a couple more, and we finally ended up with 4 sophomores, plus her beloved freshmen. Were the freshmen girls better basketball players than we were? Some were, some weren't, but they didn't work any harder than we did.

The time came for the final JV tournament, and it happened to coincide with the final freshman tourney. She needed all her freshmen, but there were 2 Varsity girls that for different reasons had missed one of their tourneys, and they wanted to play with us. Yay! We had just enough to play. She went with us to our first game, because there wasn't a time conflict (ours was a Thursday game, theirs was Friday...which they lost). We got our butts spanked! The tourneys were in opposite directions & the time of our Saturday game 2 didn't allow for her to be at both, so the Varsity boys coach said he would go with us. We showed up, all 6 of us, and actually won! We were in the consolation game later that day, which we won as well.

We got home to learn that the freshmen lost their game 2 Saturday morning, and we had a trophy to show for our efforts! :) We were punished for that, all 6 of us - 4 sophomores and 2 Varsity players. For the entire week, the 6 of us ran lines, while the rest of the girls basketball players had practice.

Did Coach Morris have a different game plan for us than she would've? No, but he did believe in us & told us we could win.

And if you actually made it to the end of this post, all I can say is "get back to work". :p

[XMan]

This post has just kept me rolling. One thing that no one has mentioned is that most of the coaching happens in practice and not in the games. The coaches devise scemes on the weekends and then implement them during the week at practice. Gameday is WAY too late to be changing scemes. Id love to see these village idiots stand out at practice to yell "ok, change from a 3-4 to a 4-3" the look on the kids face would be priceless. There is so much more to it than that. Is the 3-4 going to have a shade nose and 4's or 5's? You going to run cover 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 or maybe a combination of all of those behind your defense. Who has pitchman to the weak side? The guy who was asked to tell what a 4i was never even responded. A 4i is when the defensive lineman lined up versus the offensive tackle takes an inside shade. Head up would be a 4, inside shade is a 4i. Im betting he knew that and just didnt want to tell us. Sadly, if your players arent very good, it makes very little difference how you line them up. It is very easy for a coach to change they way the players line up or what plays they run. It is very difficult to change mentally or physically weak kids and dont even think about changing the ones who's parents are at home telling them that the coach doesnt know what he is doing. When the parents are saying that at home, its a lost cause.

[TinyTim]

Like I said, communication is the key 4I, cover 2, 8 inthe box, 2 -3 zone. But if you don't have the kids attention, respect, and desire to get better. All that different nomenclature, the various schemes and game planning is worthless. As far as game day, I will guarantee you that the teams that adjust the best at halftime are the ones that win.

[XMan]

I agree about the adjustments. The thing is though that adjustments and changing an entire scheme are totally different animals. Most average joes have absolutely no idea as to what really goes on.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by cookiemonster
You know what makes you a good coach.

Location- Location- Location

Coach were the talent is and you will win. If you win you will be considered a good coach.

Thats not exactly true. I've seen coaches win with very little talent, and seen others lose that are surrounded by talent.
Just off hand Abilene High comes to mind. There has never been a shortage on talent around there, but they went many years loosing lots of games until the coach they have now came to town. Somehow he (and his staff) has been able take kids that come from the same homes and environment as all those that came before them, and has made them winners to the point of being one of the best 5A programs in the state.

Truth is, just like in all walks of life, there are always people who do a poor job at what they do, and those who do a great job. Then there is that majority that fall somewhere in between. Coaching is no different.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by XMan
I agree about the adjustments. The thing is though that adjustments and changing an entire scheme are totally different animals. Most average joes have absolutely no idea as to what really goes on.
you are correct....any team will make adjustments at half time but the adjustments arent always noticible to everyone. You do not change schemes at halftime. You do not go from the 304 to the 4-3 unless your overall scheme allows it.

My rule of thumb both offensively and defensively...if we havent worked it...we arent going to do it!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
It's not hard to read your posts and see you are a deeply troubled person. I am willing to bet you were picked on as a child. I hope you are able to overcome this and be proud of who you are. Even if it is as a benchwarmer.



Once again you astound me! It is true that I am deeply troubled. I am troubled by the fact that you STILL haven't answered the question. You keep telling me you can "TELL" and "It's not hard" but you have yet to explain it. Why? I think it's because then you open yourself up to examination and would be shown as a fraud and a pretender. Nothing more than a poster in the dark trying to get cheap thrills by making someone else feel bad. So I asked my good friend Sigmund Freud to help me with this and he explained to me that you had a displacement disorder. This means that YOU have a serious distrust of your self confidence in your past and you compensate by attempting to label others with your afflication. So in order to try and help you recover from your problem I will tell you that I had what I consider to be a very successful childhood in sports and in life. All-District titles in both football and basketball. Although I never acheived a higher level than highschool I acheived a satisfactory level of success with the tools God gave me. I never hated a coach or any other person for that matter and have nothing but warm and fuzzies about my life now. Gee! This is fun. Your turn.......

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Once again you astound me! It is true that I am deeply troubled. I am troubled by the fact that you STILL haven't answered the question. You keep telling me you can "TELL" and "It's not hard" but you have yet to explain it. Why? I think it's because then you open yourself up to examination and would be shown as a fraud and a pretender. Nothing more than a poster in the dark trying to get cheap thrills by making someone else feel bad. So I asked my good friend Sigmund Freud to help me with this and he explained to me that you had a displacement disorder. This means that YOU have a serious distrust of your self confidence in your past and you compensate by attempting to label others with your afflication. So in order to try and help you recover from your problem I will tell you that I had what I consider to be a very successful childhood in sports and in life. All-District titles in both football and basketball. Although I never acheived a higher level than highschool I acheived a satisfactory level of success with the tools God gave me. I never hated a coach or any other person for that matter and have nothing but warm and fuzzies about my life now. Gee! This is fun. Your turn.......

Now that was good. I did laugh while reading this. keep your head up, everything will be ok for you.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
My rule of thumb both offensively and defensively...if we havent worked it...we arent going to do it!

I've seen this rule of thumb used in a few of our games this past season. We had no field goal kicker for the first four games so we went for two everytime...lol.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kepdawg
There have been plenty of times where I could have put my life on the line if I would have spoken up to correct the masses when they were yelling/complaing about a penalty that they believed was incorrect that was correctly called!

It seems to me like both sides of this argument are forgetting some parts of the equation. Are there people in the stands who don't have a clue what's going on? Absolutely! Are there people in the stands that do have a clue? Absolutely!


I think we can all agree on your last statement. But if that is true then why is only one side of the arguement being labeled as "IDIOTS"? Just making an observation to keep the thread going.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think we can all agree on your last statement. But if that is true then why is only one side of the arguement being labeled as "IDIOTS"? Just making an observation to keep the thread going.

If a coach turned around and yelled at fans in the stands and told them how crappy they were and didnt know what they were doing and they needed to move to a different school or whatever....then those coaches would be labled an idiot by me.

Keep in mind...i have not called anyone an idiot in this thread!!

[IHStangFan]

Coaches don't like to be yelled at.....this much we know......how do you guys think REFS and UMPS feel? LOL.....now THERES some guys who catch heat about 98% of the time!!!

[JR2004]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
Keep in mind...i have not called anyone an idiot in this thread!!

There's still time!

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Coaches don't like to be yelled at.....this much we know......how do you guys think REFS and UMPS feel? LOL.....now THERES some guys who catch heat about 98% of the time!!!

you arent lying! You can ask JR2004 and Terry though...I was MUCh better this year!

[JR2004]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
you arent lying! You can ask JR2004 and Terry though...I was MUCh better this year!

You are maniacal on the sidelines! I think the side judge feared for his life at just the thought of you laying into him for a bad call!

I highly suggest that anyone who has not yet gotten to see a team that KA is a coach on, do so, SOON! You will be entertained start to finish! You remind me of LaVega's DC (Which isn't bad since he's a pretty darn good DC). Y'all two are EXACTLY alike when you get steamed at a player or official...lol.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by JR2004
You are maniacal on the sidelines! I think the side judge feared for his life at just the thought of you laying into him for a bad call!

I highly suggest that anyone who has not yet gotten to see a team that KA is a coach on, do so, SOON! You will be entertained start to finish! You remind me of LaVega's DC (Which isn't bad since he's a pretty darn good DC). Y'all two are EXACTLY alike when you get steamed at a player or official...lol.
now I will say this....i did get on to the kids this year...but was MUCH better with the officials! LOL. I only got upset once this year. Rest of the time I was too busy trying to figure out what wasn't working and how we could fix it!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
[Rest of the time I was too busy trying to figure out what wasn't working and how we could fix it! [/B]


Ask Joe the Drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Ask Joe the Drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
great point!

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Ask Joe the Drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

I don't know about this past season, but the year before I believe Joe the Drunk was an assistant on the staff KA was on...lol.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by JR2004
I don't know about this past season, but the year before I believe Joe the Drunk was an assistant on the staff KA was on...lol.

lol......prolly so!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by JR2004
I don't know about this past season, but the year before I believe Joe the Drunk was an assistant on the staff KA was on...lol.


I swear to goodness that when we did an Adamson broadcast year before last we were right next to the booth coaches for Adamson and one spent most of the game with his back to the field

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I swear to goodness that when we did an Adamson broadcast year before last we were right next to the booth coaches for Adamson and one spent most of the game with his back to the field

probably cause I told him on the headsets to shut up cause he didnt know what he was talking about!!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
probably cause I told him on the headsets to shut up cause he didnt know what he was talking about!!


na I think he was just confused at which way the field was :D

[JR2004]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
probably cause I told him on the headsets to shut up cause he didnt know what he was talking about!!

Here's a re-enactment of a conversation that may or may not have happened in 2007 between KA and the assistant in the booth.

Booth: Man I can't believe Kelvin dropped that INT! He was right there!

KA: That wasn't Kelvin it was Roderick! Kelvin plays DE!

Booth: (Puts the bottle of Jack down) I know what I saw! That was Kelvin and he dropped a pick six!

KA: That wasn't Kelvin! Kelvin was 40 yards away from the play! It was Roderick! Can't you tell the difference in a DB and a DE?!?!

Booth: (Jack is now empty and has moved on to a bottle of Seagrams.) I know what I saw country boy! That was Kelvin! I think I know the difference between the two!

KA: You don't know what you're talking about! Just shut up and take off your headset moron!

Booth: (Removes headset and puts on beer hat in its place.) That's fine I'll just go to North Dallas where they'll appreciate a coach as talented as me!

KA: (Removes headset in disgust to chase referee who gave him the evil eye!)

[IHStangFan]

LOL....poor refs.

[Dieselsmoke]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think we can all agree on your last statement. But if that is true then why is only one side of the arguement being labeled as "IDIOTS"? Just making an observation to keep the thread going.
Farmersfan, I have read through this entire thread and I "get" what you are trying to say and I am on your side. The "IDIOTS" in the stands is old, so is the hours away from home. There are benefits to those who put in the hours be it a coach, a executive or business owner, it's part of the territory. The success, the wins, the comradery, or just making a difference is good enough for those who's position requires the extra effort. And those "IDIOTS" like stockholders, vendors, and consumers have a right to voice their opinion. I appreciate the hard work that goes into being a success in whatever field you pursue, each has their critics.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by JR2004
Here's a re-enactment of a conversation that may or may not have happened in 2007 between KA and the assistant in the booth.

Booth: Man I can't believe Kelvin dropped that INT! He was right there!

KA: That wasn't Kelvin it was Roderick! Kelvin plays DE!

Booth: (Puts the bottle of Jack down) I know what I saw! That was Kelvin and he dropped a pick six!

KA: That wasn't Kelvin! Kelvin was 40 yards away from the play! It was Roderick! Can't you tell the difference in a DB and a DE?!?!

Booth: (Jack is now empty and has moved on to a bottle of Seagrams.) I know what I saw country boy! That was Kelvin! I think I know the difference between the two!

KA: You don't know what you're talking about! Just shut up and take off your headset moron!

Booth: (Removes headset and puts on beer hat in its place.) That's fine I'll just go to North Dallas where they'll appreciate a coach as talented as me!

KA: (Removes headset in disgust to chase referee who gave him the evil eye!)


:clap: :clap:

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Dieselsmoke
Farmersfan, I have read through this entire thread and I "get" what you are trying to say and I am on your side. The "IDIOTS" in the stands is old, so is the hours away from home. There are benefits to those who put in the hours be it a coach, a executive or business owner, it's part of the territory. The success, the wins, the comradery, or just making a difference is good enough for those who's position requires the extra effort. And those "IDIOTS" like stockholders, vendors, and consumers have a right to voice their opinion. I appreciate the hard work that goes into being a success in whatever field you pursue, each has their critics.


Thanks for the comments. I hope I didn't make it seem that I didn't respect coaches because that couldn't be further from the truth. I do respect coaches and think they do a very valuable job.
And I agree with you that it is getting cliche' to bring up the long hours and other horrible aspects of coaching. You know it seems kinda odd to me that there are thousands of people fighting over these horrible and underpaid jobs........ Think about it a minute.

[Roll'em up]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The "y'all should run this offense/defense" idiots are the reason the coach has a job. Without the spectators, sports would not exist. And regardless of popular opinion it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something isn't working. The most novice sports fan can watch a game and tell if a team/player is not getting it done. The "idiots" might not have your training but if the team is running a 3-4 defense and getting donkey stomped then Joe the town drunk has a valid argument that you should be running a 4-3. And if you consider that the team is getting "donkey stomped" regularly playing the coaches scheme then Joe the drunk might actually know more than the coach does.................Sometimes knowledge gets in the way of progress! I think most of the "idiots" that you speak about don't become "Idiots" until they watch week after week after week of examples of not getting it done and no adjustments being made. A coach could dress out penquins and make them wear pink and most fans wouldn't care as long as they win. As soon as you start losing then you can expect to be questioned on your decisions. Such is life! Why should coaching be any different?

This is the very kind of crap that coaches talk about. Uhm. 3-4 Defense = 7 man front. 4-3 Defense = 7 man front. So, how does a 4-3 stop the run any better. In fact, most coaches will tell you that it is easier to block a down lineman than it is to block an off the ball linebacker who is probably more athletic than the down lineman. In coaching you have to decide if the defense fits your athletes. Either Defense can stop the run or pass just as effectively as the other. Oh, by the way 5-2 Defense also = 7 man front and is typically easier to block than the 4-3, and the 3-4.

[RiverRat19]

Originally posted by cookiemonster
You know what makes you a good coach.

Location- Location- Location

Coach were the talent is and you will win. If you win you will be considered a good coach.

There's a lot of truth to that... Talented teams who are coached well tend to have more success than less talented teams who are coached just as well. Poorly coached teams don't usually win regardles...

Does talent equal success? Not always- why are there schools with bad records who have multiple DI signees year after year while the teams that beat them don't? These teams have players with talent but either aren't coached very well (sorry but true) or just aren't part of programs who have all the intangibles that make other programs winners.

That being said, some programs always have a chance to enjoy success because the kids in those programs have a certain level of ability which much of their competition does not have. From there, the coaches have to do a good job putting players in opportunities to be successful.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Roll'em up
This is the very kind of crap that coaches talk about. Uhm. 3-4 Defense = 7 man front. 4-3 Defense = 7 man front. So, how does a 4-3 stop the run any better. In fact, most coaches will tell you that it is easier to block a down lineman than it is to block an off the ball linebacker who is probably more athletic than the down lineman. In coaching you have to decide if the defense fits your athletes. Either Defense can stop the run or pass just as effectively as the other. Oh, by the way 5-2 Defense also = 7 man front and is typically easier to block than the 4-3, and the 3-4.
A 3-4 is just another name for a 5-2

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pancho villa
A 3-4 is just another name for a 5-2

yep....pancho is correct.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Roll'em up
This is the very kind of crap that coaches talk about. Uhm. 3-4 Defense = 7 man front. 4-3 Defense = 7 man front. So, how does a 4-3 stop the run any better. In fact, most coaches will tell you that it is easier to block a down lineman than it is to block an off the ball linebacker who is probably more athletic than the down lineman. In coaching you have to decide if the defense fits your athletes. Either Defense can stop the run or pass just as effectively as the other. Oh, by the way 5-2 Defense also = 7 man front and is typically easier to block than the 4-3, and the 3-4.


I think you missed the whole underlying context of my posts. Joe the Drunk isn't required to know all these details.

[pancho villa]

Ok here is a coach question for ya'll 5-2 or 4-3 guys? How many of you spoke your secondary?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
If he doesn't, then he has no idea what he's talking about and probably should just shut up.


Are you saying that a person needs to experience the situation before they can truly make a judgement on that situation????

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
and sometimes they yell because the team would be as well off if the numbnut coach was sitting on a tailgate behind the end zone fence drinking beer!
For the record, I posted this to have some fun with Pancho.
I am never one to make negative comments to players and coaches during a game, except to occasionally yell "darn" or "shoot" when something unexpected happens.

Well, I MEAN to say "darn" or "shoot" anyways.:D

[RiverRat19]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Amen! Good athletes make good coaches. But, you dont see many programs with multiple D1 signees losing, and you VERY rarely see them losing consistantly, except maybe in 5a were you see alot of D1 kids. Even then, you dont see many Plano Easts who go 1-9 with 5 D1 kids. They won't go 1-9 again, Id bet borrowed money on it.

Yeah, I was referring to the larger schools who have talent but don't win. Smaller schools that have DI/DII kids usually win... They can get beat. I know of a couple of teams who in the past have had no DI kids who beat or competed with teams that had DI kids and even players who eventually made it to the NFL... The exception rather than the rule I know but it happens.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Ok here is a coach question for ya'll 5-2 or 4-3 guys? How many of you spoke your secondary?

How come no one is answering my question? Some of you non-coaches can tell me what the spoke is.

[Dieselsmoke]

Originally posted by pancho villa
How come no one is answering my question? Some of you non-coaches can tell me what the spoke is.
Basically it's a two deep if your referring to a four spoke secondary.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
How come no one is answering my question? Some of you non-coaches can tell me what the spoke is.


Speaking for the NON-COACHES: Who cares as long as it works on Friday night. If it doesn't then we am going to say you need to run something else!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

Sorry! Like A-Rod says: When I told you then that I was telling the truth I was really telling you a lie. But now I am telling you the truth and you need to believe me because it is different now than it was then because I was lying then but not now. And I feel so good telling the truth!!!!

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Speaking for the NON-COACHES: Who cares as long as it works on Friday night. If it doesn't then we am going to say you need to run something else!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

Sorry! Like A-Rod says: When I told you then that I was telling the truth I was really telling you a lie. But now I am telling you the truth and you need to believe me because it is different now than it was then because I was lying then but not now. And I feel so good telling the truth!!!!

I proved my point!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pancho villa
I proved my point!


I think I need to point out that the only point you proved was that you are claiming to prove a point that is pointless to this discussion.;)
A coach claiming superior knowledge when his team is getting donkey stomped is ridiculous. A chef can tell a million people how good he is but it means nothing unless his souffle' is good........
The proof is in the pudding..so to speak. Dang! It must be lunch time.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think I need to point out that the only point you proved was that you are claiming to prove a point that is pointless to this discussion.;)
A coach claiming superior knowledge when his team is getting donkey stomped is ridiculous. A chef can tell a million people how good he is but it means nothing unless his souffle' is good........
The proof is in the pudding..so to speak. Dang! It must be lunch time.

It is unfair to bring food into this discussion, because it makes it hard for me to concentrate.

[pirate4state]

I can't believe yall are still "talking" about this!

Don't yall have some COACHING to do!

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I can't believe yall are still "talking" about this!

Don't yall have some COACHING to do!


mmmmkkkkaaaayyyyy!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I can't believe yall are still "talking" about this!

Don't yall have some COACHING to do!


Not me!!!! I don't have the SKILLS....................

"You know, like nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills."

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
mmmmkkkkaaaayyyyy!

haha you shut your mouth when you are talking to me! :D

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Not me!!!! I don't have the SKILLS....................

"You know, like nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills."

That is why all women love Pancho, because of his skills!

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I can't believe yall are still "talking" about this!

Don't yall have some COACHING to do!

We have run fast turn left practice after school!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by pancho villa
We have run fast turn left practice after school! I just realized something funny. :D You are always talking about the standaround sponsors tight pants, but track coaches wear those funny shorts! :D

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I just realized something funny. :D You are always talking about the standaround sponsors tight pants, but track coaches wear those funny shorts! :D

i wear the same shorts i wear to football practice maam!

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I just realized something funny. :D You are always talking about the standaround sponsors tight pants, but track coaches wear those funny shorts! :D

I look good in my funny shorts, thank you very much!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
i wear the same shorts i wear to football practice maam!

Exactly...funny looking shorts! :D Let me go find a picture! :devil:

[pirate4state]

http://www.onlinesports.com/images/mw-bkc550.jpg

:2thumbsup

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pirate4state
http://www.onlinesports.com/images/mw-bkc550.jpg

:2thumbsup

lol...the only coach i see still wearing those things is Butch Ford!

[kaorder1999]

http://67.59.137.10/images/CelinaCoaches/ButchFord.JPG

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
lol...the only coach i see still wearing those things is Butch Ford! and Pancho wears them too!! :D

[kaorder1999]

those shorts you posted match ford's exactly!!!

[pancho villa]

I still got some of them Bike shorts.

[Roll'em up]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Ok here is a coach question for ya'll 5-2 or 4-3 guys? How many of you spoke your secondary?

I don't think you will find many people referencing to a "spoke" secondary much anymore. Eventhough some coaches may still do it I think you will see it called something different. Today has become more of a read the route and match up with a receiver secondary while also trying to disguise the coverages.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
http://www.onlinesports.com/images/mw-bkc550.jpg

:2thumbsup LOL!!!! Nice.