LH Panther Mom
02-04-2009, 06:10 PM
FABULOUS 55
When it comes to high school recruiting, size matters
Colleges, fans must wade through conflicting info on state's top recruits.
By Alan Trubow
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, February 04, 2009
The reporter on the other end of the phone was excited about the recruit, and all Dayton High School football coach Jerry Stewart could do was shake his head as he readied himself to say something not often heard in the world of recruiting:
The truth.
The topic was Dayton's Cody Green, a 6-foot-4-inch, 220-pound quarterback who had just committed to Nebraska.
The reporter was from Nebraska.
"I just remember this guy was excited and said, 'I heard Green runs a 4.4 (second) 40 (yard dash)," Stewart said. "And I said, 'Yeah, he runs a 4.4, if you're talking about the first 20 yards.'
"I mean, the kid is 6-4, 220 pounds. He's really fast, but he doesn't run a 4.4. I don't know how fast Cody is, probably around 4.6, but I can tell you I've never seen him caught from behind."
Stewart said the reporter got off the phone a little disappointed. It's understandable. A listed speed of 4.6 seconds appears slow when you look at recruiting web sites like Rivals.com, Scout.com, ESPN.com or Texasfootball.com.
There's a reason: The information on players isn't always accurate.
Today is national signing day, and fans across the country will spend it talking about their school's recruits and arguing about who has the best class. Who wins those arguments, however, will differ depending on what Web site or newspaper the information is coming from, because when it comes to recruiting, you'll often find the same player with different numbers listed for heights, weights, speed and strength.
Mansfield Timberview running back Eric Stephens — the No. 36-rated recruit on the Fabulous 55 — is 5-11, 200 pounds and has 4.38 speed on texasfootball.com. On Rivals.com, the Texas Tech-bound Stephens is 5-8 (three inches shorter), 177 pounds (nearly 25 pounds lighter) and, according to the site's analysis, "doesn't have home run speed."
Stephens, insists Timberview coach Terry Cron, is 5-8, 200 pounds and runs about a 4.56.
"I don't know where some of these guys get their numbers from," Cron said. "It seems like they heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy, and that's good enough to report."
Odessa Permian offensive lineman Garrett Porter, who will sign with Texas today, is listed anywhere from 6-3 to 6-6 and weighs somewhere between 271 and 308 pounds, depending on whom you're asking. And Madisonville running back Chris Whaley — another future Longhorn — is listed anywhere from 217 to 249 pounds.
"He's probably around 239 right now," Madisonville coach Greg Morgan said. "But he gains and loses weight a lot. He also runs a legitimate 4.4."
How do these discrepancies happen?
One reason is that the recruiting process now lasts a couple of years, and as recruits grow and get stronger and faster, sometimes Web sites aren't updated.
But more often than not, it's another reason.
"People lie," said Gerry Hamilton of Burntorangebeat.com, Scout.com's Texas site. "You've got high school coaches who are trying to help their kids. You've got kids trying to add an inch or 10 pounds.
"I would say I get wrong or inaccurate information 60 to 70 percent of the time. You hear one thing, and then when you're standing next to the prospect, you can see it's not true."
Some of the information, however, is true.
Rivals.com tries to let people know when information has been confirmed. It often gets statistics for speed, height and weight at recruiting camps that top prospects attend throughout the country.
When Rivals.com gets 40-yard dash times from official camps, it puts a small "r" next to the time on the player's profile page.
However, much of the time, the recruiting site relies on what a player tells its reporters during phone interviews.
"We find the biggest problems come with speed and height," Rivals.com national analyst Jeremy Crabtree said. "For whatever reason, kids seem to stretch how fast and how tall they are. If they don't go to the camps, you have to go by what the coach or player tells you. Sometimes, when you know it's not true, you just don't include the information."
While fans are often left guessing what is accurate and what isn't, college coaches don't take any risks.
"I don't look at any of the sites or even scan rosters for heights and weights," Texas recruiting coordinator Bobby Kennedy said. "Most of the time, you go by the eye test. I know how tall I am and how much I weigh, so I kind of size up our prospects when I'm standing next to them. You watch how they look during their athletic periods and practice. You really don't go by what's reported."
It's hard to believe any of it.
"Numbers, especially when it comes to speed, are getting out of hand," Crabtree said. "In high school, I played against Maurice Greene, who at one point was the world's fastest man. And in high school, I know for a fact, that Greene's fastest time was 4.49."
That means 10 of Rivals.com's top 30 recruits in the country are faster than Greene was when he was in high school.
Dayton's Stewart scoffs at those numbers. But he knows how it works.
His receiver, A.J. Dugat, is headed to the University of Houston and got plenty of attention from college coaches — though it seems they didn't always know about the player they were asking about.
"They listed my receiver anywhere from 5-7 to 6-2 ... 6-2!" Stewart said. "I know that he's 5-10 and weighs 191 pounds. If we had as many 4.3 people as they say we have, we would have been state champions every year. I'll tell you this, I don't put less than 4.6 on many players, because you don't find many players who can run that fast.
"But you see 4.4 all over the place. It's good for newspapers. It's good for recruiting sites. It's good for fans. It's just not good if you're looking for facts."
atrubow@statesman.com; 445-3959
American-Statesman link (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/highschool/02/04/0204recruiting.html)
When it comes to high school recruiting, size matters
Colleges, fans must wade through conflicting info on state's top recruits.
By Alan Trubow
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, February 04, 2009
The reporter on the other end of the phone was excited about the recruit, and all Dayton High School football coach Jerry Stewart could do was shake his head as he readied himself to say something not often heard in the world of recruiting:
The truth.
The topic was Dayton's Cody Green, a 6-foot-4-inch, 220-pound quarterback who had just committed to Nebraska.
The reporter was from Nebraska.
"I just remember this guy was excited and said, 'I heard Green runs a 4.4 (second) 40 (yard dash)," Stewart said. "And I said, 'Yeah, he runs a 4.4, if you're talking about the first 20 yards.'
"I mean, the kid is 6-4, 220 pounds. He's really fast, but he doesn't run a 4.4. I don't know how fast Cody is, probably around 4.6, but I can tell you I've never seen him caught from behind."
Stewart said the reporter got off the phone a little disappointed. It's understandable. A listed speed of 4.6 seconds appears slow when you look at recruiting web sites like Rivals.com, Scout.com, ESPN.com or Texasfootball.com.
There's a reason: The information on players isn't always accurate.
Today is national signing day, and fans across the country will spend it talking about their school's recruits and arguing about who has the best class. Who wins those arguments, however, will differ depending on what Web site or newspaper the information is coming from, because when it comes to recruiting, you'll often find the same player with different numbers listed for heights, weights, speed and strength.
Mansfield Timberview running back Eric Stephens — the No. 36-rated recruit on the Fabulous 55 — is 5-11, 200 pounds and has 4.38 speed on texasfootball.com. On Rivals.com, the Texas Tech-bound Stephens is 5-8 (three inches shorter), 177 pounds (nearly 25 pounds lighter) and, according to the site's analysis, "doesn't have home run speed."
Stephens, insists Timberview coach Terry Cron, is 5-8, 200 pounds and runs about a 4.56.
"I don't know where some of these guys get their numbers from," Cron said. "It seems like they heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy, and that's good enough to report."
Odessa Permian offensive lineman Garrett Porter, who will sign with Texas today, is listed anywhere from 6-3 to 6-6 and weighs somewhere between 271 and 308 pounds, depending on whom you're asking. And Madisonville running back Chris Whaley — another future Longhorn — is listed anywhere from 217 to 249 pounds.
"He's probably around 239 right now," Madisonville coach Greg Morgan said. "But he gains and loses weight a lot. He also runs a legitimate 4.4."
How do these discrepancies happen?
One reason is that the recruiting process now lasts a couple of years, and as recruits grow and get stronger and faster, sometimes Web sites aren't updated.
But more often than not, it's another reason.
"People lie," said Gerry Hamilton of Burntorangebeat.com, Scout.com's Texas site. "You've got high school coaches who are trying to help their kids. You've got kids trying to add an inch or 10 pounds.
"I would say I get wrong or inaccurate information 60 to 70 percent of the time. You hear one thing, and then when you're standing next to the prospect, you can see it's not true."
Some of the information, however, is true.
Rivals.com tries to let people know when information has been confirmed. It often gets statistics for speed, height and weight at recruiting camps that top prospects attend throughout the country.
When Rivals.com gets 40-yard dash times from official camps, it puts a small "r" next to the time on the player's profile page.
However, much of the time, the recruiting site relies on what a player tells its reporters during phone interviews.
"We find the biggest problems come with speed and height," Rivals.com national analyst Jeremy Crabtree said. "For whatever reason, kids seem to stretch how fast and how tall they are. If they don't go to the camps, you have to go by what the coach or player tells you. Sometimes, when you know it's not true, you just don't include the information."
While fans are often left guessing what is accurate and what isn't, college coaches don't take any risks.
"I don't look at any of the sites or even scan rosters for heights and weights," Texas recruiting coordinator Bobby Kennedy said. "Most of the time, you go by the eye test. I know how tall I am and how much I weigh, so I kind of size up our prospects when I'm standing next to them. You watch how they look during their athletic periods and practice. You really don't go by what's reported."
It's hard to believe any of it.
"Numbers, especially when it comes to speed, are getting out of hand," Crabtree said. "In high school, I played against Maurice Greene, who at one point was the world's fastest man. And in high school, I know for a fact, that Greene's fastest time was 4.49."
That means 10 of Rivals.com's top 30 recruits in the country are faster than Greene was when he was in high school.
Dayton's Stewart scoffs at those numbers. But he knows how it works.
His receiver, A.J. Dugat, is headed to the University of Houston and got plenty of attention from college coaches — though it seems they didn't always know about the player they were asking about.
"They listed my receiver anywhere from 5-7 to 6-2 ... 6-2!" Stewart said. "I know that he's 5-10 and weighs 191 pounds. If we had as many 4.3 people as they say we have, we would have been state champions every year. I'll tell you this, I don't put less than 4.6 on many players, because you don't find many players who can run that fast.
"But you see 4.4 all over the place. It's good for newspapers. It's good for recruiting sites. It's good for fans. It's just not good if you're looking for facts."
atrubow@statesman.com; 445-3959
American-Statesman link (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/highschool/02/04/0204recruiting.html)