Some Statistics For Old Cardinal and Whoever else cares

[PPHSfan]

I have given a lot of thought to what you said about PP struggling and getting kicked around in 3A now that we are no longer the big fish in the little pond. So I went and did a little research on some teams that moved up over the past 20 years or so and found some interesting numbers. One team in particular I would like to highlight for you would be a team that came through 3-A back in 1986 and made a little noise. You may remember them, they were called the Dragons and they came from a DFW school just South of here called Southlake Carroll.

Below is their record when they came through after moving up from little 2-A.

Playoff Scores Only

1986

Carroll 27 Kennendale 0

1987

Carroll 42 Aledo 20

Carroll 27 Wylie 12

Carroll 14 Linden 13

Carroll 24 Gladewater 20

1988

Carroll 52 Commerce 6

Carroll 40 Mabank 6

Carroll 42 Daingerfield 13

Carroll 41 Wills Point 0

Carroll 23 Decatur 0

Carroll 42 Navasota 8 State Champions

1989

Carroll 40 Bonham 28

Carroll 35 Alverado 7

1990

Carroll 42 Frisco 14

Carroll 56 Glenrose 7

Carroll 42 Gilmer 0

Carroll 27 Gladewater 12

1991

Carroll 56 Commerce 7

Carroll 35 Alverado 7

Carroll 42 Gladewater 21

Carroll 20 Forney 7

1992

Carroll 61 Eastland 7

Carroll 50 Reagan County 14

Carroll 39 Vernon 35

Carroll 61 Alpine 0

Carroll 63 Gainsville 7

Carroll 48 Coldspring 0 State Champions

1993

Carroll 63 Clyde 7

Carroll 41 Reagan county 0

Carroll 37 Vernon 7

Carroll 34 Perryton 3

Carroll 28 Tatum 14

Carroll 14 Cuero 6 State Champions

WOW!!! The Dragons move up from 2-A and spend eight years in 3-A. They make the playoffs 8 times and win State 3 times. Then they move up to 4A in 94 go one deep and one and done in 95 before struggling for a few years. Then they move up to 5-A and win State their first year.

Now before you say it, I will say it for you."Pilot Point is no Southlake Carroll"..and you are right. Here is how I know. Southlake Carroll just happened to be in Pilot Points district in little 2-A before moving up to the mighty 3-A, and now I would like to show you their record against the Bearcats.

1979 PP 53 SC 0
1980 PP 41 SC 6
1981 PP 26 SC 14
1982 PP 35 SC 7
1983 PP 35 SC 7
1984 PP 20 SC 7
1985 PP 29 SC 0

Yep, Pilot Point is no Southlake Carroll, but then again we try. And our first year in 3-A we pulled together when it counted and played the defending champions their toughest game of the year (just ask eye of the tiger) all the way down to the wire, losing in the final two minutes by a field goal. I respect your opinion about how you think we will get kicked around for the next few years, but I respectfully disagree with you. Hide and Watch..my guess is that it will be business as usual. :p

[Old Cardinal]

If I remember right, Southlake Carroll enrollment grew very fast.

[pirate4state]

Old Cardinal:
If I remember right, Southlake Carroll enrollment grew very fast.Good answer, this explains everything! :p :D wink

[PPHSfan]

Well I stand humbled now. :rolleyes:

[vet93]

PPHSfan...I am no enemy of the Bearcats. As a matter of fact I am a bearcat myself...just change your orange to red and we are about the same. I looked at the statistics that you provided and I am not sure what is proved. The Southlake Carrol situation is more the exception than the rule. If you are fortunate enough to be in a growth corridor in a large metropolitan area like Southlake and have a good football program at the same time then it is easy to see why they have been successful. In a situation like this you get two things working for you...1) A large influx of new students to help compensate for the change in classification and 2) People who are wanting to specifically move to your program because of the coach/program. Carroll had both of these. Certainly PP has the coach/program, but you are a little far out to see the exponential growth that SLC saw during the past 15 to 20 years. I have no doubt that PP will be very competitve but to expect the same success that you enjoyed in 2A without a proportional increase in population may be a little unrealistic. Of course part of the problem is that PP set the bar so high while they were in 2A. I certainly believe that a low enrollment 3A can be very competitve (Ballinger has done pretty well through the years being a lower enrollment school with 2 upsets of top 10 teams in the past 3 years). I have my doubts however that a low enrollment team can be dominant year in and year out like a SLC, Celina or PP without having their population grow to help even out the talent pool discrepency. Having said all of this...it may be a moot point because it looks like PP, Celina, Ballinger and quite a few other low enrollment 3A's may be moving down next year anyway.

[Old Cardinal]

Thanks Vet 93, for taking the time to explain in detail. You hit it on the head in such a brief explanation!

[PPHSfan]

Old Cardinal:
Thanks Vet 93, for taking the time to explain in detail. You hit it on the head in such a brief explanation!Once again Old Card, you miss the point and make me laugh. Pilot Point whipped SLC like an egg white for seven straight years and the very next year they made the playoffs in 3A. One more year and they went four deep followed by a State Trophy. If they were so much better of a team because of moving from the top of 2A to the bottom of 3A in just two years then I guess it is just a fluke that Pilot Point owned them for the seven years prior to them getting a few more kids. You are welcome to your opinion though, but let me ask you one question. What is your excuse going to be if Pilot Point makes a title run this year? And don't say you will come eat crow, because you spit out the bird after your ridiculous remarks about Jasper last season. :p

[Gobbla2001]

Well if you're looking for simularities between SLC and PP I've found two, they both used to be in the same district and they both have moved from 2A to 3A before.... Other than that, did PP do as well as SLC in their first year in 3A? No, so your arguement is?

I hope PP does WELL, I just don't see the simularities in your arguement... Like my ole Algebra teacher (was also my coach) used to say, you can't compare apples and oranges...

[PPHSfan]

Well Gobbla, They did win one more game than we did their first year in 3-A, however...we did spank them the year before 29-0 :p .

[Gobbla2001]

You can't compare Apples (1985) to Oranges (1986)... Two different years... I do honor the fact that you're very proud of your school...

We beat a team 33-0 my sophmore year and lost to them the next year 48-33, teams change...

[PPHSfan]

I feel you miss the point. My point is that the fact that Pilot Point is a small school new to 3-A does not automatically mean that we should get "kicked around now that we are the small fish" according to Old Cardinal. If his theory held water...then SLC (who has never beaten us) would not have done what they did. And if small schools in 3A get kicked around by the big boys...they I guess Newton(353 enrollment) spanking Bridge City(753 enrollment) last year was just a fluke too. :D

<small>[ April 23, 2003, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: PPHSfan ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

Well I for one do not think a good team like PP will move up and get spanked, so I see that point... I just jumped in on this thread and it seemed to me that you were saying PP has a great shot to win it all BASED on the fact that Southlake had, that's what I was getting... My bad!

[vet93]

PPHSfan...I guess I missed the point also. I have never thought that PP was going to get kicked around in 3a (too much good coaching and tradition). I thought that you were trying to make the point that Pilot Point was going to be able to enjoy the same dominance as a low enrollment 3a as they did as a high enrollment 2a. There is a big difference from being competitive (and not getting kicked around) and challenging for a state championship year end and year out. It has been my experience while watching my team as a low enrollment 3a for years that the difficulty for the teams that don't have as large a talent pool is not in winning a big game or even putting together a stellar season. The difficulty is challenging for a championship year end and year out when the other team has more ammo than you do in the talent pool. It can be done (Newton), but it is very difficult. It is even more difficult out here in the wilderness when we cannot count on any "move ins" that just want to play for a good program. I am not referring to anything illegal, just the ability for parents in large population areas to move to the school of their choice and commute. Out here, if the kids aren't locked in here by the sixth grade, then we probably won't see them. Interesting trivia...Cedric Benson went to elementary school a year or two in Ballinger before moving to Midland...If only he had stayed!


PPHSfan:
I feel you miss the point. My point is that the fact that Pilot Point is a small school new to 3-A does not automatically mean that we should get "kicked around now that we are the small fish" according to Old Cardinal. If his theory held water...then SLC (who has never beaten us) would not have done what they did. And if small schools in 3A get kicked around by the big boys...they I guess Newton(353 enrollment) spanking Bridge City(753 enrollment) last year was just a fluke too. :D

[Old Cardinal]

You know PPHS, the only "point" that you have made with all this ya-ta ya-ta, is that a young man is totally consumed with the PAST. I appears that you state your total existance and worth on a High School football teams record in 2A. That is a little tragic....Maybe this will help; a little advice from an old man,---Yesterday is a cancelled check; Tomorrow is a promissory note. Today is cash, spend it wisely....Maybe you should find something else to hang your self-esteem on besides what your town's HS's football team does. Next time, Gainesville might beat you 50-0, instead of 30-0, and then you will have a heart attack!

<small>[ April 24, 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[PPHSfan]

Old Cardinal:
You know PPHS, the only "point" that you have made with all this ya-ta ya-ta, is that a young man is totally consumed with the PAST. I appears that you state your total existance and worth on a High School football teams record in 2A. That is a little tragic....Maybe this will help; a little advice from an old man,---Yesterday is a cancelled check; Tomorrow is a promissory note. Today is cash, spend it wisely....Maybe you should find something else to hang your self-esteem on besides what your town's HS's football team does. Next time, Gainesville might beat you 50-0, instead of 30-0, and then you will have a heart attack!You know something Old Cardinal, when you talk about winning last year, you are living in the past, when you talk about winning for three years you are living in the past, but when you talk about winning every stinking year for the past 25 years, you are simply building on TRADITION. When your team has 23 playoff appearances in 24 years TWO State Titles and goes 26+ years without a losing season, then you can say what you want. Until then, Deal with it, You just can't stand the fact that there are a VERY FEW teams out there that win year in and year out, and your beloved team is not one of them. :D

[PPHSfan]

OH Yeah, I almost forgot. http://fp.funfiles.plus.com/anim_emoticons/rudely_sticking_tongue_out.gif

[turbostud]

HeHeHe. Sounds like someone in southeast texas is a little jealous. PPHSfan did you graduate from PPHS and if so what year?

[SintonFan]

Check your privates PPHS...