Palestinian-Israeli Conflict.....

[Bullaholic]

Moral to the Story: Do not fire rockets into your neighbor's backyard and expect no retaliation.

I am sorry that there has been tremendous loss of life in this latest conflict, but I agree that some lasting solution fair to both sides must be found. I also realize that Israel has not done everything right with regard to their Paelestinian neighbors, but I also agree with their position of refusing to halt the war until they are guaranteed a permanent end to the missle firings.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Moral to the Story: Do not fire rockets into your neighbor's backyard and expect no retaliation.

I am sorry that there has been tremendous loss of life in this latest conflict, but I agree that some lasting solution fair to both sides must be found. I also realize that Israel has not done everything right with regard to their Paelestinian neighbors, but I also agree with their position of refusing to halt the war until they are guaranteed a permanent end to the missle firings. dude, the thread is gonna get shutdown.

[kepdawg]

I still can't believe Palestine didn't do more when they had Adrian Peterson!

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I still can't believe Palestine didn't do more when they had Adrian Peterson!

lol, kep....

[Pawdaddy]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I still can't believe Palestine didn't do more when they had Adrian Peterson!

I think he was a double agent.

[IHStangFan]

I wish there was a peaceful resolution to the problem in Gaza and the middle east in general...but there isn't. It's been going on for 2000 years...and it will continue. The only REAL solution is to let the Israelies handle business. If the "leash" was taken off the Israelies....the middle east would be a peaceful place within 3 months. The last time someone declared war on them...what'd it last....a week? They haven't lost a war in over 2000 yrs.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I wish there was a peaceful resolution to the problem in Gaza and the middle east in general...but there isn't. It's been going on for 2000 years...and it will continue. The only REAL solution is to let the Israelies handle business. If the "leash" was taken off the Israelies....the middle east would be a peaceful place within 3 months. The last time someone declared war on them...what'd it last....a week? They haven't lost a war in over 2000 yrs. lol where were you in 2006? Hezbollah a terrorist network all but halted a armored advance. Israel will always win an invasion of their country, operating outside, muslim world has learned to neutralize weapon superiority. Bring em in and bleed em out.

oh and by the way within 2000 years, yes they were conquered by the Romans, BRUTALLY.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
lol where were you in 2006? Hezbollah a terrorist network all but halted a armored advance. Israel will always win an invasion of their country, operating outside, muslim world has learned to neutralize weapon superiority. Bring em in and bleed em out.

oh and by the way within 2000 years, yes they were conquered by the Romans, BRUTALLY. The Israelies are pressured by the rest of the free world when it comes to this....you and I both know that. If they were "allowed" to launch a full scale military campaign.....well..you see how it's turning out. And come on man...."2000 yrs" is a loosely used term...and 63 B.C. when the Romans went in to settle a skirmish and invaded Judaea....they controlled most of the known free world....come on man. Palestine also was given to Herod some 20 yrs later....but you get my point.....suicide bombers are no match for air superiority....and Israel probably has the finest Airforce in the world next to ours...they ought to...they are trained by us and fly our planes for the most part.

[IHStangFan]

70 AD......Titus destroys Jerusalem......this is what you are talkin about right? So excuse me.....JUST SHY OF 2000 YEARS. Happy? :D

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
The Israelies are pressured by the rest of the free world when it comes to this....you and I both know that. If they were "allowed" to launch a full scale military campaign.....well..you see how it's turning out. And come on man...."2000 yrs" is a loosely used term...and 63 B.C. when the Romans went in to settle a skirmish and invaded Judaea....they controlled most of the known free world....come on man. Palestine also was given to Herod some 20 yrs later....but you get my point.....suicide bombers are no match for air superiority....and Israel probably has the finest Airforce in the world next to ours...they ought to...they are trained by us and fly our planes for the most part. They could give a squirt of pee for the rest of the world, it is us that holds them back, rightfully so, it is our weapons and they reflect upon us, if they wholesale destroy a people with no army, well, doesn't speak well of a country that preaches it wants to spread freedom. Israel has had a heavy hand, I don't blame em, but more diplomacy is needed to ensure they're safety from missile attacks. If they would allow other Arab countries to monitor the fence, it may help. But continuously using the stick only creates more and more fundamentalists. Time for Egypt and Turkey to step up (the only nations in the middle east that recognize Israel).

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
70 AD......Titus destroys Jerusalem......this is what you are talkin about right? So excuse me.....JUST SHY OF 2000 YEARS. Happy? :D ;) by the way Yom Kippur War, Israel came absolutely closest to defeat. Russian supplied AA weaponry nullified air superiority. Egyptians shot down lots of Israeli planes. Jordanian invasion from the North was effective for a while. Mismanegement by the muslim nations lost that war. Then again, the Israeli's last option was in play (Tactical nukes).

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
;) LOL.....I love history...guess you could say I'm infatuated with it......and it's rather hard finding anyone to chat about it with. :nerd:

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
LOL.....I love history...guess you could say I'm infatuated with it......and it's rather hard finding anyone to chat about it with. :nerd: middle east conflicts are my favorite. I however approach it objectively, otherwise I become a historiographer. Understanding both views allows for a fair observance of history.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
They could give a squirt of pee for the rest of the world, it is us that holds them back, rightfully so, it is our weapons and they reflect upon us, if they wholesale destroy a people with no army, well, doesn't speak well of a country that preaches it wants to spread freedom. Israel has had a heavy hand, I don't blame em, but more diplomacy is needed to ensure they're safety from missile attacks. If they would allow other Arab countries to monitor the fence, it may help. But continuously using the stick only creates more and more fundamentalists. Time for Egypt and Turkey to step up (the only nations in the middle east that recognize Israel). I agree w/ you in some aspects...but at the same time....many of these nations/peoples have never seen eye to eye....largely because of differences in religious beliefs. I don't see a peaceful resolution in the near future though.....on a side note...just curious....you ever read the Koran/Qur'an? At risk of turning this any more "religious" I'll halt there to save the thread....PM me if you would like to discuss :)

[Johnny Utah]

I do Care, you must have a stake it what is going on......I for one can not judge either side...they are sworn enemies it is obvious and live way too close together for any kind of peace. Glad I am not in that part of the world. I do not think anyone can imagine what it would be like to not be able to walk down the street for fear of terrorist attacks in broad daylight. The US will be diplomatic as usual. And I agree, the fighting will never cease! Just keep it out of our borders!!

[Bullaholic]

I think this thread has a good chance for a reasonable life as long as current and past political party foreign policy criticisms or religious arguments are left alone. The discussion of Middle Eastern history and conflicts can be interesting and educational.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I think this thread has a good chance for a reasonable life as long as current and past political party foreign policy criticisms or religious arguments are left alone. The discussion of Middle Eastern history and conflicts can be interesting and educational. :clap: It's a fine line though as religion and history in this region are closely intertwined.

[Necks_Fan]

BOO!


I hate history.


:D :devil:


Care to discuss some politics and religion? :eek: ;)





























































Okay, I'll stop.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
70 AD......Titus destroys Jerusalem......this is what you are talkin about right? So excuse me.....JUST SHY OF 2000 YEARS. Happy? :D

the controversy is no longer just about land, as it was in the pre-roman days

for the first 300 years or so (620-900ish), Islamic rulers were far more friendly to Jews than the Christian church was--until the caliphs went through a period similar to our inquisition (1290+)

for almost two thousand years, jews played a very small part in the history of israel

of course, they have as much claim as the palestinians do in regards to the land

palestinians + religion not good

[IHStangFan]

History is awesome!! Can't get enough of it. Fascinating.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
the controversy is no longer just about land, as it was in the pre-roman days

for the first 300 years or so (620-900ish), Islamic rulers were far more friendly to Jews than the Christian church was--until the caliphs went through a period similar to our inquisition (1290+)

for almost two thousand years, jews played a very small part in the history of israel

of course, they have as much claim as the palestinians do in regards to the land

palestinians + religion not good right...right....just going to show that man is a "hungry" creature and will find reasons...whether they are religious based or otherwise to conquer their neighbor. The means by which they do this have changed over time (in most of the world)...but the theme is still the same.....trade embargoes, import/export tax...i.e. controlling the majority of the world economy, etc. Ask any Saudi about controlling markets.....you know what a gallon of gas goes for in the middle east versus "the Western World"? LOL.

[Necks_Fan]

We shoulda blew em up and took their oil. The world would be good.


Just saying.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
We shoulda blew em up and took their oil. The world would be good.


Just saying. so you're all for the "glass parking lot" approach? I'm not down w/ that....all of those wasted dunes .....would make a MUCH better ATV park. :D Glamis and Yuma ain't got nothing on the middle east.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
We shoulda blew em up and took their oil. The world would be good.


Just saying. this isn't middle earth hobbit, real world actually has people in it.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
this isn't middle earth hobbit, real world actually has people in it. LOL!!! you made me choke on my Copenhagen. I think ole Necks is trying to get our educational, history filled look into Middle Eastern culture and knowledge closed.






Oh...I'd also just like to add....present day Dubai is a wonder of the modern world....simply amazing.

[IHStangFan]

Rich in America < Rich in the Middle East

Never seen anything like the wealth over there.


BUT...it's a select few that have the massive wealth.

Factiod.....only 17%ish of the Kuwaiti population are actually Kuwaiti. Or so I read when I lived there.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
this isn't middle earth hobbit, real world actually has people in it. I wasn't being serious....... BUT, we have lost THOUSANDS of lives because of the war and even more on 9/11.

We could have ended this ALOT sooner of we wanted to (ie... Hiroshima and Nagasaki).

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I wasn't being serious....... BUT, we have lost THOUSANDS of lives because of the war and even more on 9/11.

We could have ended this ALOT sooner of we wanted to (ie... Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Well....to that I would say.....9/11....really had nothing to do w/ Iraq........in all honesty...it is popular belief that those terrorists were funded by our "friends" the Saudis and probably Syria....and as far asthe soldiers that have lost their lives in Iraq....bless their souls.....volunteered for service....and myself....have done my service and served in the Army....and am now headed to Iraq to serve further as a civilian contractor in the coming months. That's the great thing about America...we have the CHOICE to serve. Many do...some die...but everyone that serves knows that signing on that dotted line has potential consequences. And that's all I'll say about that.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Well....to that I would say.....9/11....really had nothing to do w/ Iraq........in all honesty...it is popular belief that those terrorists were funded by our "friends" the Saudis and probably Syria....and as far asthe soldiers that have lost their lives in Iraq....bless their souls.....volunteered for service....and myself....have done my service and served in the Army....and am now headed to Iraq to serve further as a civilian contractor in the coming months. That's the great thing about America...we have the CHOICE to serve. Many do...some die...but everyone that serves knows that signing on that dotted line has potential consequences. And that's all I'll say about that. awesome ;)

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I wasn't being serious....... BUT, we have lost THOUSANDS of lives because of the war and even more on 9/11.

We could have ended this ALOT sooner of we wanted to (ie... Hiroshima and Nagasaki). being you hate history, i understand this comment. you have to pay attention to what our foreign policy has created as well. We preach freedom, but this govt. clandestine forces have put in place many dictators and have destabilized nations in order to put in place leaders of our choice. We are not innocent in the least. That isn't justifyin their actions, but it something to think about before we employ policy over these nations.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
awesome ;) Thank you :)

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
I do Care, you must have a stake it what is going on......I for one can not judge either side.. thats what being objective is.


Originally posted by Johnny Utah
I do not think anyone can imagine what it would be like to not be able to walk down the street for fear of terrorist attacks in broad daylight. how bout tanks rolling down your street, heli's blowing up your buildings and JDAMS potholing your infrastructure. HAMAS has hijacked the situation, but I don't blame people for fighting for what little they have. The damn Europeans created this mess and it's funny that we are judged for how WE fix it.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Well....to that I would say.....9/11....really had nothing to do w/ Iraq........in all honesty...it is popular belief that those terrorists were funded by our "friends" the Saudis and probably Syria....and as far asthe soldiers that have lost their lives in Iraq....bless their souls.....volunteered for service....and myself....have done my service and served in the Army....and am now headed to Iraq to serve further as a civilian contractor in the coming months. That's the great thing about America...we have the CHOICE to serve. Many do...some die...but everyone that serves knows that signing on that dotted line has potential consequences. And that's all I'll say about that. Tell that to someone who has lost someone close in this war, which was CAUSED by 9/11, not neccessarily why we are there now.

[Necks_Fan]

I don't care..... just could be done with them and their oil if we wanted to.

[Bullaholic]

Here's my solution to the problem:

1. Gaza and the West Bank must be declared and recognized as Palestine.

2. Palestine must recognize the right of Israel to exist as a nation and cease all hostilities. Hamas and Hezbollah must become legitimate non-violent political parties.

3. Jerusalem must be declared a "holy' and neutral city like the Vatican with no soldiers or arms present within its borders and access corridors like in 1947 Berlin, must be established and patrolled.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Tell that to someone who has lost someone close in this war, which was CAUSED by 9/11, not neccessarily why we are there now. Iraq was caused by 9/11? lmao wow! has Jay Leno ever interviewed you on the sidewalks? It was certainly the political leverage to engage in it.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I don't care..... just could be done with them and their oil if we wanted to. not by genocide. We are a great country, we should be done with them through technological innovation.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Bullaholic

3. Jerusalem must be declared a "holy' and neutral city like the Vatican with no soldiers or arms present within its borders and access corridors like in 1947 Berlin, must be established and patrolled. nice! :) but Israel would give up alot doing that. good idea though

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Tell that to someone who has lost someone close in this war, which was CAUSED by 9/11, not neccessarily why we are there now. The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do w/ 9/11. It was not Iraqis that attacked NY. Hell...Osama is supposed to be hiding in Afghanistan....not Iraq. I have friends that have been, are in, are headed to, and have died in Iraq...so I think I know how those people feel...but again...the soldiers in Iraq signed THEIR OWN NAME on that contract to join the service. And some of us...like me....after we get out....go right back to do our part. Do I agree on why we're in Iraq...yes and no....Saddam needed to be removed....he's gone yes...but it IS somewhat our responsibility to help maintain "peace" there while a new government is put in place and finds it foothold. What I DON'T agree with is us ramrodding the elections and whatnot. It's a very complex situation that even I don't fully understand....but at least I try to be educated on the "big picture" rather than..."those (insert middle eastern slur here) crashed planes into the trade center....bomb Iraq". When in reality....as stated above...Iraq had nothing to do w 9/11....that's like saying.......Charles Manson killed my relative.....so kill Greg Brady and bomb California for good measures. It just doesn't make sense. Know what you're talkin about before you go spoutin off...or at least ATTEMPT to be educated on the subject.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
It was certainly the political leverage to engage in it. This is what I was getting at.

I don't pretend to know much about the ins and outs of this crap... BUT, I do know when we got attacked, it gave the US reason to declare war.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
nice! :) but Israel would give up alot doing that. good idea though

If the British were willing to give Hong Kong to the Chinese as part of an agreement, the Israelis should have no problem granting full access to Jerusalem in exchange for a lasting peace.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
This is what I was getting at.

I don't pretend to know much about the ins and outs of this crap... BUT, I do know when we got attacked, it gave the US reason to declare war.

On the whole world? What if it was an "inside job"? Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if it ever comes out that it was?

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do w/ 9/11. It was not Iraqis that attacked NY. Hell...Osama is supposed to be hiding in Afghanistan....not Iraq. I have friends that have been, are in, are headed to, and have died in Iraq...so I think I know how those people feel...but again...the soldiers in Iraq signed THEIR OWN NAME on that contract to join the service. And some of us...like me....after we get out....go right back to do our part. Do I agree on why we're in Iraq...yes and no....Saddam needed to be removed....he's gone yes...but it IS somewhat our responsibility to help maintain "peace" there while a new government is put in place and finds it foothold. What I DON'T agree with is us ramrodding the elections and whatnot. It's a very complex situation that even I don't fully understand....but at least I try to be educated on the "big picture" rather than..."those (insert middle eastern slur here) crashed planes into the trade center....bomb Iraq". When in reality....as stated above...Iraq had nothing to do w 9/11....that's like saying.......Charles Manson killed my relative.....so kill Greg Brady and bomb California for good measures. It just doesn't make sense. Know what you're talkin about before you go spoutin off...or at least ATTEMPT to be educated on the subject. Well, when the WTC towers and the Pentagon were destroyed and their people cheered in the streets.... it was pretty evident to me.


I don't care about all this in depth crap. I just know we USED to have the nads to pull the trigger and we ended Japan in 2 days.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
If the British were willing to give Hong Kong to the Chinese as part of an agreement, the Israelis should have no problem granting full access to Jerusalem in exchange for a lasting peace. Well Britain didn't necessarly hold all the CARDS with China completely surrounding that City. Israel runs Jerusalem and is the superpower controlling what goes on around it.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by Aesculus gilmus
On the whole world? What if it was an "inside job"? Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if it ever comes out that it was? So, you suggest we fight a war we can't win instead?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
If the British were willing to give Hong Kong to the Chinese as part of an agreement, the Israelis should have no problem granting full access to Jerusalem in exchange for a lasting peace. I like this idea.....but it's not as simple as that. The Brits at one point pretty much had colonized the entire world....but not because of religious beliefs...they did it by basically rolling in and having a superior military/treasury. When religion is involved it becomes much more volatile I would suspect...i.e. Gaza.

Factoid....Okinawa was once it's own people/nation/kingdom....the Japanese conquered and annexed Okinawa. Call an Okinawan, Japanese on the streets of Naha and see what kinda reaction you get. You will be told..."I'M OKINAWAN!!!" LOL.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Tell that to someone who has lost someone close in this war, which was CAUSED by 9/11, not neccessarily why we are there now.

Not to pick on you in particular but this is what is wrong in our country. The youth has no desire to actually get the facts on any current and or relevent event going on. They take what little they get through the typical means and take that inforatiom as fact and fact alone. The sad thing is that this is not confined to just the youth but most of our country is this way.

Anyway, this area will always be hostile unless both sides are given the same size stick. The reason Israel is so heavy handed is because there is basically no threat of a full military campaign coming from the Palestinians. Sure they use terrorist attacks and a few others means but on the whole Israel knows that there is no chance of being invaded and/or having the blunt of the military operations taking place within their borders.

If history teaches us one thing, it is that this area will always be divided along many lines. As long as the US stays out of this and plays the diplomat I will be happy. If we go in on the behalf of Israel things will get really scary really fast.

[I_Do_Care]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Well, when the WTC towers and the Pentagon were destroyed and their people cheered in the streets.... it was pretty evident to me. lmao so a cameraman caught one street and you judge a nation by that. it's 9/11 in palestine every day kid.



Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I don't care about all this in depth crap. I just know we USED to have the nads to pull the trigger and we ended Japan in 2 days. say that to the marines who crossed the pacific, 2 days, wow. We dropped the bomb over a civilians because of lack of technology to prevent civilian casualties. At that point, it was accepted that total war was TOTAL WAR. you're comparing apples and oranges. IT isn't that we lack the nads, it's that do we really want to go back to those days? indiscriminant bombing? If so, 9/11 was perfectly fine! I certainly don't feel it is, but your ignorance just justified it.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Well, when the WTC towers and the Pentagon were destroyed and their people cheered in the streets.... it was pretty evident to me.


I don't care about all this in depth crap. I just know we USED to have the nads to pull the trigger and we ended Japan in 2 days.

You do realize the reason we dropped the bombs was to end the war, only because it was clear the Japanese were still capable militarily and would continue the fight until the bitter end. This situation is totally different from the one in Iraq. Learn history before you spout off stupid rhetoric.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Well, when the WTC towers and the Pentagon were destroyed and their people cheered in the streets.... it was pretty evident to me.


I don't care about all this in depth crap. I just know we USED to have the nads to pull the trigger and we ended Japan in 2 days. NEWSFLASH!!!! The majority of the WORLD doesn't "like" America.....especially Muslim fundamentalists......you think the Iraqis were the only ones cheering that day? Doubtful. What most that aren't educated on the subject matter fail to realize is....this war...it isn't confined to any one country's borders....it's not a war against a nation......we're fighting religious extremists that come from several muslim nations. As I stated before...the Saudis....who are supposed to be "our friends" are suspected of funding 9/11. But did we go in and bomb them? Did we even try to find out if they in fact DID fund the attacks? Of course not...too much money at stake....so the whole ordeal had a slant and spin put on it. Understand what you're dealing with here when you look at things like this.....political and economical agendas, the media...both left and right....etc.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by STAggie
Not to pick on you in particular but this is what is wrong in our country. The youth has no desire to actually get the facts on any current and or relevent event going on. They take what little they get through the typical means and take that inforatiom as fact and fact alone. The sad thing is that this is not confined to just the youth but most of our country is this way.

Anyway, this area will always be hostile unless both sides are given the same size stick. The reason Israel is so heavy handed is because there is basically no threat of a full military campaign coming from the Palestinians. Sure they use terrorist attacks and a few others means but on the whole Israel knows that there is no chance of being invaded and/or having the blunt of the military operations taking place within their borders.

If history teaches us one thing, it is that this area will always be divided along many lines. As long as the US stays out of this and plays the diplomat I will be happy. If we go in on the behalf of Israel things will get really scary really fast.

That is why the U.S. holds Israel's leash--if Syria and Iran thought for a minute that they could jump in and take the Israelis out right now, they would do it in a heartbeat, but they don't dare because they know that they would have to eventually deal with the U.S.

[Necks_Fan]

Doesn't matter to me.... Could be done and over with. All I'm saying is, if they wanna bomb..... we can play that game too.

Let's go tit for tat with them on attracks and let' see who is still standing.


It wouldn't bother me one bit to yank our soldiers out and end everythiung really quick with a couple jets.

Say what you want about me be uninformed and ignorant and whatever when it comes to foreign policy. I DON'T care.:)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
That is why the U.S. holds Israel's leash--if Syria and Iran thought for a minute that they could jump in and take the Israelis out right now, they would do it in a heartbeat, but they don't dare because they know that they would have to eventually deal with the U.S. Israeli's are more than capable of taking care of themselves. They are basically a mini-me! WITH NUKES

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
That is why the U.S. holds Israel's leash--if Syria and Iran thought for a minute that they could jump in and take the Israelis out right now, they would do it in a heartbeat, but they don't dare because they know that they would have to eventually deal with the U.S.

Exactly but what I fear is eventually this countries are going to use that to start another war with the US. It seems to me Iran is becoming quite capable to, while not win a war against u, at least cause us a lot of trouble which is sometimes all these countries want to do. Not to mention their friendship with Putin and the new USSR.

[DDBooger]

Only people Israeli's generally needed protection from was Russian aggression and matching Russian weapons proliferation to the Muslim nations. We did so 10 fold.!

*but still sold weapons to muslim nations*

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Israeli's are more than capable of taking care of themselves. They are basically a mini-me! WITH NUKES

The only way the Israelis would employ nukes is if they felt that their very existence was at stake and that the U.S. was unable to supply enough conventional support to turn back their enemies.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan



I don't care about all this in depth crap.

Then quit trying to derail their conversation!

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
NEWSFLASH!!!! The majority of the WORLD doesn't "like" America.....especially Muslim fundamentalists......you think the Iraqis were the only ones cheering that day? Doubtful. What most that aren't educated on the subject matter fail to realize is....this war...it isn't confined to any one country's borders....it's not a war against a nation......we're fighting religious extremists that come from several muslim nations. As I stated before...the Saudis....who are supposed to be "our friends" are suspected of funding 9/11. But did we go in and bomb them? Did we even try to find out if they in fact DID fund the attacks? Of course not...too much money at stake....so the whole ordeal had a slant and spin put on it. Understand what you're dealing with here when you look at things like this.....political and economical agendas, the media...both left and right....etc. I realize that. Afghanistan, Saudi, Iraq, Iran.... I get that.


But tell me why we are primarily in Iraq then.

Stabilize one country and move on? If so, it will take 50+ years.

What does Obama have in store? Yank us out and get hammered again?

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I realize that. Afghanistan, Saudi, Iraq, Iran.... I get that.


But tell me why we are primarily in Iraq then.

Stabilize one country and move on? If so, it will take 50+ years.

What does Obama have in store? Yank us out and get hammered again?

The original reason we went into Iraq was we believe they had WMD's. Or at least that was the reason being spouted on every news channel. Funny how people forget this fact.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Doesn't matter to me.... Could be done and over with. All I'm saying is, if they wanna bomb..... we can play that game too.

Let's go tit for tat with them on attracks and let' see who is still standing.


It wouldn't bother me one bit to yank our soldiers out and end everythiung really quick with a couple jets.

Say what you want about me be uninformed and ignorant and whatever when it comes to foreign policy. I DON'T care.:) so lemme play a scenario out for you....we yank our soldiers out....drop some bombs....sure...we kill some Iraqis....most of which would be civilians...which just adds more fuel to the already raging hatred of America by islamic extremists....who then gain sympathy from OTHER islamic extremists.....now groups from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt...even Muslims that live within our borders are outraged...and step their terrorism up worldwide against US assets....they decide to crash more planes into things in America attempting to cripple our already busted ecomomy...but only this time....they decide to crash into the BP and Valero plants/refineries in Texas City....not to mention US military personal that are stationed around the world and are easy targets.....then another corrupt dictator takes the wheel in Iraq because there is no infastructure or anyone to really stand in his way....the ones that do receive the same treatment as people who opposed Saddam.....see where this is goin? By removing the soldiers and dropping bombs...you've made the situation much worse......I hope you never get elected president of our country.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
I realize that. Afghanistan, Saudi, Iraq, Iran.... I get that.


But tell me why we are primarily in Iraq then.

Stabilize one country and move on? If so, it will take 50+ years.

What does Obama have in store? Yank us out and get hammered again? Uh...pretty much....when was the Korean war? 1950s. And guess what....there was never any treaty signed....just a 50+ yr cease fire.....and guess what else...we're still there.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
The only way the Israelis would employ nukes is if they felt that their very existence was at stake and that the U.S. was unable to supply enough conventional support to turn back their enemies. Yom Kippur War and no nation would challenge them in the middle east with our technology being employed by them. As they massed on the border Israeli's would rain hell on them. Those nations are done with conventional combat against Israeli's. Proxy wars and perhaps nuclear exchange is what is left. Iran is quickly becoming capable, but I don't think Israel will allow it to happen, with or w/o our compliance.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yom Kippur War and no nation would challenge them in the middle east with our technology being employed by them. As they massed on the border Israeli's would rain hell on them. Those nations are done with conventional combat against Israeli's. Proxy wars and perhaps nuclear exchange is what is left. Iran is quickly becoming capable, but I don't think Israel will allow it to happen, with or w/o our compliance. :clap: yay!! someone else who appears to be educated on what's goin on in the world!!! welcome to the conversation Boog. Glad you're here and contributing....unlike others. :(

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by I_Do_Care
lmao so a cameraman caught one street and you judge a nation by that. it's 9/11 in palestine every day kid.


say that to the marines who crossed the pacific, 2 days, wow. We dropped the bomb over a civilians because of lack of technology to prevent civilian casualties. At that point, it was accepted that total war was TOTAL WAR. you're comparing apples and oranges. IT isn't that we lack the nads, it's that do we really want to go back to those days? indiscriminant bombing? If so, 9/11 was perfectly fine! I certainly don't feel it is, but your ignorance just justified it. LOL....nice. This thread is moving so fast all of the sudden I'm having to go back and read to catch up.....just caught this.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
:clap: yay!! someone else who appears to be educated on what's goin on in the world!!! welcome to the conversation Boog. Glad you're here and contributing....unlike others. :( I don't blame Necks. it's our society, we choose the easiest methods to be informed and subsequently we get told our opinions. History and Social Sciene are my love and his attitude is what has to change so we can become a beacon of hope to the rest of the world again rather than the greatest threat to peace. Right or wrong, that perception is there.

[Ingleside Fan]

The Israelis just need to kill them all and let God figure it out.

If Cuba started launching missiles into Miami we would do the same thing.

I know its not PC!

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The Israelis just need to kill them all and let God figure it out.

If Cuba started launching missiles into Miami we would do the same thing.

I know its not PC!

Except Cuba would never do that.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The Israelis just need to kill them all and let God figure it out.

If Cuba started launching missiles into Miami we would do the same thing.

I know its not PC! :rolleyes: we aren't strangling Cuba to death by our policies. we just don't do business with them. We're a bigger threat to them than they ever were to us. Russia upped the ante but they were nothing but a proxy toy for the two big boys to play global politics with.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by DDBooger
:rolleyes: we aren't strangling Cuba to death by our policies. we just don't do business with them. We're a bigger threat to them than they ever were to us. Russia upped the ante but they were nothing but a proxy toy for the two big boys to play global politics with.

Whats funny if that would have never happened, Cuba would more than likely be the number 1 vacation spot for most Americans, just as it was pre 1950's if I am not mistaken.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by STAggie
Whats funny if that would have never happened, Cuba would more than likely be the number 1 vacation spot for most Americans, just as it was pre 1950's if I am not mistaken. YESSIR!!! why do you think the MOB hated CASTRO, lmao, he stole their Carribean Vegas

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I don't blame Necks. it's our society, we choose the easiest methods to be informed and subsequently we get told our opinions. History and Social Sciene are my love and his attitude is what has to change so we can become a beacon of hope to the rest of the world again rather than the greatest threat to peace. Right or wrong, that perception is there. totally agreed.....you have people who watch left media...and people who watch right media....all of which are force-fed their opinions which they regurgitate like a parrot. Heck..you wanna know what's goin on in the world....do some research of your own....look to history and get the full story from the begining....and something I do from time to time.....get your news from a "neutral" source other than CNN and Fox......flip over to the BBC for a somewhat non-spun angle. (In most cases.)

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
NEWSFLASH!!!! The majority of the WORLD doesn't "like" America.....especially Muslim fundamentalists

The majority of the world has disliked the U. S. since I have been living. I served 24 year in the Military and we supported, assisted countries were the people hated us.

They will not be happy until the U. S. is totally destroyed.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
totally agreed.....you have people who watch left media...and people who watch right media....all of which are force-fed their opinions which they regurgitate like a parrot. Heck..you wanna know what's goin on in the world....do some research of your own....look to history and get the full story from the begining....and something I do from time to time.....get your news from a "neutral" source other than CNN and Fox......flip over to the BBC for a somewhat non-spun angle. (In most cases.) I should have stock in Barnes and Noble, man i have two huge bookshelves of required reading and chosen reading. Only TV i watch is football and The Office, but I love Movies. :) History Channel and NATGEO is fun as well when I have time.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
YESSIR!!! why do you think the MOB hated CASTRO, lmao, he stole their Carribean Vegas LOL....yup....pre-Castro Cuba was supposed to be the Mecca for wealthy Americans.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I should have stock in Barnes and Noble, man i have two huge bookshelves of required reading and chosen reading. Only TV i watch is football and The Office, but I love Movies. :) History Channel and NATGEO is fun as well when I have time.

Same here, not to mention all of the textbooks and other readings from college. When you double major in political science and histroy you would not believe the amount of books you acquire over 4 years.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The majority of the world has disliked the U. S. since I have been living. I served 24 year in the Military and we supported, assisted countries were the people hated us.

They will not be happy until the U. S. is totally destroyed. again, check our policy record, you may not blame all of em. Doesn't mean we cant mend fences, but we have to TALK! so many of these countries have a bloated youth population and how we influence them will shape our future. Conflict or peace. If they remain disdainful, we'll be in perpetual war forever. While the weapons contractors may love it (military industrial complex) it isn't their kids dying in the machinery!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I should have stock in Barnes and Noble, man i have two huge bookshelves of required reading and chosen reading. Only TV i watch is football and The Office, but I love Movies. :) History Channel and NATGEO is fun as well when I have time. yup....I watch TV some...but if it's not football...it's History Channel or Discovery...and even then...after I've seen something controversial on either....I go to the books & internet to read up on it and see if I can't get a more clear picture of said event(s). I feel you can NEVER know enough or get enough viewpoints on any particular subject matter.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by STAggie
Same here, not to mention all of the textbooks and other readings from college. When you double major in political science and histroy you would not believe the amount of books you acquire over 4 years. double majored in history and sociology, working toward a Ph.D in sociology.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
:rolleyes: we aren't strangling Cuba to death by our policies. we just don't do business with them. We're a bigger threat to them than they ever were to us. Russia upped the ante but they were nothing but a proxy toy for the two big boys to play global politics with.

Wow you have no idea what your talking about.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
yup....I watch TV some...but if it's not football...it's History Channel or Discovery...and even then...after I've seen something controversial on either....I go to the books & internet to read up on it and see if I can't get a more clear picture of said event(s). I feel you can NEVER know enough or get enough viewpoints on any particular subject matter. Can't tell you how glad I am to hear there are others out there haha ;)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Wow you have no idea what your talking about.
lmao, taken from someone who would say this

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The Israelis just need to kill them all and let God figure it out.
I'm complimented! haha dude, pick up a book, do something beside looking ignorant

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
again, check our policy record, you may not blame all of em. Doesn't mean we cant mend fences, but we have to TALK! so many of these countries have a bloated youth population and how we influence them will shape our future. Conflict or peace. If they remain disdainful, we'll be in perpetual war forever. While the weapons contractors may love it (military industrial complex) it isn't their kids dying in the machinery!

When is Humas going to talk?? They total distruction of Isreal is all they want. Drive the into the sea is what Iran wants.

[pirate4state]

Alright, yall are starting to get personal. I've let yall carry on because I've enjoyed the conversation, but if yall can't keep all this "your stupid, etc..." out of it - it's gonna get shut down.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
lmao, taken from someone who would say this

I'm complimented! haha dude, pick up a book, do something beside looking ignorant

Son, I am well educated with two degrees to prove it. But I have had more education than just school work I have traveled to places and tried to aid people they still would kill us in the middle of the night with a cloth wrap around the face.

Talking does work!

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
double majored in history and sociology, working toward a Ph.D in sociology. get the hell outa here? really?? I'm VERY jealous! LOL. I got my "education" serving in the military...and being curious about what was REALLY goin on....so I started reading....I'd KILL for a history degree.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
When is Humas going to talk?? They total distruction of Isreal is all they want. Drive the into the sea is what Iran wants. It's HAMAS and yes IRAN has a role in it too. It is easy to accept help from terrorists and terrorist supporting nations when you are left with no option. Israel has suffocated that country, has not allowed mettling in it and have continuously had to go in, destroy and basically continue the circle. The stick has not worked. it won't. Egypt and Turkey have mended fences with Israel and it is there where this should begin, they just need to take the lead. It would send a message to the rest of the muslim world.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
When is Humas going to talk?? They total distruction of Isreal is all they want. Drive the into the sea is what Iran wants.

Humas? Food can't talk. Anyway, they have had cease fire's before and another can be worked out but it will have to be agreed upon by all and strictly implemented by an outside nation other than the US. Our involement causes to much mistrust on the side of anyone other than Israel.


*edited for spelling.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Alright, yall are starting to get personal. I've let yall carry on because I've enjoyed the conversation, but if yall can't keep all this "your stupid, etc..." out of it - it's gonna get shut down. seriously....please....listen to Rita and calm down guys...this is the best conversation and sharing of ideals I've ever had on the DL...and I don't want it getting shut down.......this is educational and intriguing ....don't screw it up.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by STAggie
Humas? Food can't talk. Anyway, they have had cease fire's before and another can be worked out but it will have to be agreed upon by all and strictly implemented by an outside nation other than the US. Our involement causes to much mistrust on the side of anyone other than Israel.


*edited for spelling.

Fat fingers!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
get the hell outa here? really?? I'm VERY jealous! LOL. I got my "education" serving in the military...and being curious about what was REALLY goin on....so I started reading....I'd KILL for a history degree. you were a soldier, nice, still doesn't mean you know squat about geopolitical affairs, you simply folllowed orders.

UNLESS you worked intelligence, or green beret who were instructed in cultural norms and mores. :)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
you were a soldier, nice, still doesn't mean you know squat about geopolitical affairs, you simply folllowed orders. you misunderstood me I guess...I wasn't making a jab at you....I'm simply showing I agree w/ what you are saying and givin reason why I share your insight/opinion. And I don't pretend to know much about it...but what I do know...I learned by reading and researching just as you did....only I don't have a degree to show for it. Agian...I'm envious of you...not bashing you, LOL.

[STAggie]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Fat fingers!

Not sure how to take this. But if it is in good fun then I will :D with you but if not, :mad:

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
It's HAMAS and yes IRAN has a role in it too. It is easy to accept help from terrorists and terrorist supporting nations when you are left with no option. Israel has suffocated that country, has not allowed mettling in it and have continuously had to go in, destroy and basically continue the circle. The stick has not worked. it won't. Egypt and Turkey have mended fences with Israel and it is there where this should begin, they just need to take the lead. It would send a message to the rest of the muslim world.

Hamas controls/governs the Gaza Strip. Gaza strip has access to the sea and can get goods through Egypt (but they have blocked them off too). So quit blaming Israel. The rest of the Arabic worlds reach out with the olive branch this time.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Alright, yall are starting to get personal. I've let yall carry on because I've enjoyed the conversation, but if yall can't keep all this "your stupid, etc..." out of it - it's gonna get shut down. :( it's been pretty civil, except for the "KILL EM ALL!!! YEAH!!! I HAVE NO INSIGHT!!"

:)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Hamas controls/governs the Gaza Strip. Gaza strip has access to the sea and can get goods through Egypt (but they have blocked them off too). So quit blaming Israel. The rest of the Arabic worlds reach out with the olive branch this time. lmao, I'm not blaming Israel there pard, I'm saying, they have a part in the current situation as well, perhaps you should view things objectively instead of always ISRAEL IS RIGHT!! Hell it's fascinating to me that a pres has to declare his solidarity to Israel before he can even be considered for the job. :rolleyes: many people in the intelligence field have long pressured the US to steady the uneven treatment in the middle east to assuage the hate.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
lmao, I'm not blaming Israel there pard, I'm saying, they have a part in the current situation as well, perhaps you should view things objectively instead of always ISRAEL IS RIGHT!! Hell it's fascinating to me that a pres has to declare his solidarity to Israel before he can even be considered for the job. :rolleyes: many people in the intelligence field have long pressured the US to steady the uneven treatment in the middle east to assuage the hate.

What else can the give? Except to move out of Israel or stand and fight. The other Arabic countries have to give this time.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by DDBooger
:( it's been pretty civil, except for the "KILL EM ALL!!! YEAH!!! I HAVE NO INSIGHT!!"

:) yes it has and i've been enjoying reading. just had to throw that out there after "you have no idea what you're talking about" and "pick up a book, do something beside looking ignorant" :)

carry on :nerd:

[JR2004]

Israel is good...The Palestinian people are good. Hamas is bad. Hamas must be dealt with and dealt with severely.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
What else can the give? Except to move out of Israel or stand and fight. The other Arabic countries have to give this time. my only thought is....if Isreal DID give and allow Palestine the Gaza strip.....what message would that send to the rest of the Arab (Islamic) world? Would it be seen as a sign of weakness and provoke future attacks from others? Just a thought....not supported in any way....just a "what if..."

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
yes it has and i've been enjoying reading. just had to throw that out there after "you have no idea what you're talking about" and "pick up a book, do something beside looking ignorant" :)

carry on :nerd:

Thanks for the guidance. :D

[Bullaholic]

Here's my take on the ways and means of American foreign policy over the past 50 years or so----America has influenced the course of world affairs far more with it's checkbook than with it's rifle. That is the root of a lot of the "ugly American" image held by many foreigners. Many times in the past we have supported with our $$$ the regimes of the Shah of Iran, Noriega, Osama ben Laden, even Sadam Hussein and many others, and by putting or keeping them in power have unknowingly multiplied the suffering in the lives of many of those---not all-- who they ruled or governed. Sometimes we have just bet on the wrong horses. Now, how do we attempt to correct our mistakes---you got it---with our $$$$. I have always found it interesting how heads of state are suddenly ready to relinquish power after a visit from our State Dept.---look at Musharraf in Pakistan for example---this was not a matter of "when" but rather of "O.k--how much?" International affairs are much more complicated and involved than any of us can imagine and we would be scared to death to know what really goes on, what is at stake at many tense moments, and why things happen as they do. I, as an American, am extremely thankfull that we live in a nation that is able to insulate us against the "pain" that most of the rest of the world must endure with our $$$ and our might. We are not always right, but at least we are the 1 super power left with the means to shape our world for hopefully, the better.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
What else can the give? Except to move out of Israel or stand and fight. The other Arabic countries have to give this time. lmao what else can they give? how about an opportunity to succeed. they blockade everything from the palestinians. I agree HAMAS has hijacked the situation, but even in truce, they maintained a heavy hand in allowing the country to succeed leaving ample opportunity for more hostile forces to gain influence. 4 israeli dead, 7 soldiers, the palestinian death toll will reach a 1000 soon. Israel by far is my favorite country to study, they as a people fascinate me to no end, but broken policy is broken policy, they've worked things out with Two primarily muslim nations, they should approach the table again. I Agree though, they should hold out until they can receive assurance of no more missile strikes. something might as well come out of this.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
my only thought is....if Isreal DID give and allow Palestine the Gaza strip.....what message would that send to the rest of the Arab (Islamic) world? Would it be seen as a sign of weakness and provoke future attacks from others? Just a thought....not supported in any way....just a "what if..."

IMO. without the concession of Gaza and the Westbank for the formation of a true Palestinian state, there will never be a lasting peace. I think Israel knows this and is ready to concede for a permanent peace.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
my only thought is....if Isreal DID give and allow Palestine the Gaza strip.....what message would that send to the rest of the Arab (Islamic) world? Would it be seen as a sign of weakness and provoke future attacks from others? Just a thought....not supported in any way....just a "what if..." Israel must do it with concessions and assurances. Any other way is not acceptable. IT's time to see if those nations in support of palestine truly are, or if they are merely using palestine as a cause.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
my only thought is....if Isreal DID give and allow Palestine the Gaza strip.....what message would that send to the rest of the Arab (Islamic) world? Would it be seen as a sign of weakness and provoke future attacks from others? Just a thought....not supported in any way....just a "what if..."

They gave it back to the Palestines in 2005. Then Hamas took over in 2007. That is why Israel is getting attacked.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Israel must do it with concessions and assurances. Any other way is not acceptable. IT's time to see if those nations in support of palestine truly are, or if they are merely using palestine as a cause.

Why should they give more concessions or assurances they will just get attack again.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Here's my take on the ways and means of American foreign policy over the past 50 years or so----America has influenced the course of world affairs far more with it's checkbook than with it's rifle. That is the root of a lot of the "ugly American" image held by many foreigners. Many times in the past we have supported with our $$$ the regimes of the Shah of Iran, Noriega, Osama ben Laden, even Sadam Hussein and many others, and by putting or keeping them in power have unknowingly multiplied the suffering in the lives of many of those---not all-- who they ruled or governed. Sometimes we have just bet on the wrong horses. Now, how do we attempt to correct our mistakes---you got it---with our $$$$. I have always found it interesting how heads of state are suddenly ready to relinquish power after a visit from our State Dept.---look at Musharraf in Pakistan for example---this was not a matter of "when" but rather of "O.k--how much?" International affairs are much more complicated and involved than any of us can imagine and we would be scared to death to know what really goes on, what is at stake at many tense moments, and why things happen as they do. I, as an American, am extremely thankfull that we live in a nation that is able to insulate us against the "pain" that most of the rest of the world must endure with our $$$ and our might. We are not always right, but at least we are the 1 super power left with the means to shape our world for hopefully, the better. Valid :clap: Kinda off subject.....but I'm one who believes that in today's world...the media plays a major part in how others...and ourselves for that matter view such things.....and I believe the media just shouldn't be involved in certain aspects. War is ugly.....I understand that the media is a valuable propaganda tool....but the average "Joe Schmo" citizen isn't prepared to handle some of the things that go on "behind closed doors" and on battle fields.....okay..I'm rambling....I'll stop.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Here's my take on the ways and means of American foreign policy over the past 50 years or so----America has influenced the course of world affairs far more with it's checkbook than with it's rifle. That is the root of a lot of the "ugly American" image held by many foreigners. Many times in the past we have supported with our $$$ the regimes of the Shah of Iran, Noriega, Osama ben Laden, even Sadam Hussein and many others, and by putting or keeping them in power have unknowingly multiplied the suffering in the lives of many of those---not all-- who they ruled or governed. Sometimes we have just bet on the wrong horses. Now, how do we attempt to correct our mistakes---you got it---with our $$$$. I have always found it interesting how heads of state are suddenly ready to relinquish power after a visit from our State Dept.---look at Musharraf in Pakistan for example---this was not a matter of "when" but rather of "O.k--how much?" International affairs are much more complicated and involved than any of us can imagine and we would be scared to death to know what really goes on, what is at stake at many tense moments, and why things happen as they do. I, as an American, am extremely thankfull that we live in a nation that is able to insulate us against the "pain" that most of the rest of the world must endure with our $$$ and our might. We are not always right, but at least we are the 1 super power left with the means to shape our world for hopefully, the better. well said.

[IHStangFan]

Bull, Boog, I_F.....all great viewpoints. I'm enjoying this very much. :)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Why should they give more concessions or assurances they will just get attack again. THEY SHOULD GET THEM IN RETURN is what im saying, not offer more. None the less, a truce and agreement requires both sides to make em. I promise you an Israeli sleeps better at night in contrast to a palestinian.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I promise you an Israeli sleeps better at night in contrast to a palestinian. the "average" PALESTINIAN .....yes. Extremists hellbent on obliterating the Israelies...maybe not so much....but w/ the above statement I agree.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
the "average" PALESTINIAN .....yes. Extremists hellbent on obliterating the Israelies...maybe not so much....but w/ the above statement I agree. yeah, unfortunately, they being the only option to many innocent civies it really is a sad situation. Boy, any of yall ever read books on the Mossad? BAD BOYS!!!

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
THEY SHOULD GET THEM IN RETURN is what im saying, not offer more. None the less, a truce and agreement requires both sides to make em. I promise you an Israeli sleeps better at night in contrast to a palestinian.

The Palestinians need to stand up for themselves against Hamas.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The Palestinians need to stand up for themselves against Hamas. Fatah party, they did! Hamas was better armed, equiped and funded. They played off of Israeli transgressions to manipulate the populace.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yeah, unfortunately, they being the only option to many innocent civies it really is a sad situation. Boy, any of yall ever read books on the Mossad? BAD BOYS!!! are these the "agents" the Prime Minister sent after the terrorists after the Munich Olympics?

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yeah, unfortunately, they being the only option to many innocent civies it really is a sad situation. Boy, any of yall ever read books on the Mossad? BAD BOYS!!!

Israel's Intelligence. Of course I have heard of them. They cannot be compared to Hamas. They do no launch missiles into civilian areas with no reason. Yes they believe in taking action to the enemy before the enemy gets to Israel.

[Electus Unus]

If we get rid of religion it would end almost every war that is going on right now and that is a fact.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
are these the "agents" the Prime Minister sent after the terrorists after the Munich Olympics? yes and no. they weren't your typical mossad, they were more admins then field agents, they wanted no traces of Israeli led assassinations. But real mossad agents are pretty damn good at assassinations. They basically drove Hamas and Hezbollah leaders underground and w/o telecommunications for fear of death.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Electus Unus
If we get rid of religion it would end almost every war that is going on right now and that is a fact. not necessarily.....because then you'd have a buncha people running around w/ nothing to fear, no faith in anything and w/ nothing to live for, or lose. That's make the world a scary place.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Israel's Intelligence. Of course I have heard of them. They cannot be compared to Hamas. They do no launch missiles into civilian areas with no reason. Yes they believe in taking action to the enemy before the enemy gets to Israel. alright man, you have to take the foot off the pedal and quit believing everything is an argument. I'm actually fascinated by them and believe had we followed their example in treating these pockets of terrorists we may have had a better outcome after 9/11. I'm pro-Israel man, but I'm not indifferent to the suffering of the arabs. Their world was turned upside down the last decade by europe and us meddling with it.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I still can't believe Palestine didn't do more when they had Adrian Peterson!

:clap:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
not necessarily.....because then you'd have a buncha people running around w/ nothing to fear, no faith in anything and w/ nothing to live for, or lose. That's make the world a scary place. Religion makes the world a scary place as well. I'm not for outlawing religion, but I believe it should play no role in govt or military policy.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yes and no. they weren't your typical mossad, they were more admins then field agents, they wanted no traces of Israeli led assassinations. But real mossad agents are pretty damn good at assassinations. They basically drove Hamas and Hezbollah leaders underground and w/o telecommunications for fear of death.

Mossad is our friends:

The Mossad informed the FBI and CIA in August 2001 that as many as 200 terrorists were slipping into the United States and planning "a major assault on the United States." The Israeli intelligence agency cautioned that it had picked up indications of a "large-scale target" in the United States and that Americans would be "very vulnerable." A month later, the terrorists struck at the twin towers.

They wage war to protect thier homeland.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Mossad is our friends:

The Mossad informed the FBI and CIA in August 2001 that as many as 200 terrorists were slipping into the United States and planning "a major assault on the United States." The Israeli intelligence agency cautioned that it had picked up indications of a "large-scale target" in the United States and that Americans would be "very vulnerable." A month later, the terrorists struck at the twin towers.

They wage war to protect thier homeland. again, not arguing that.

[Pawdaddy]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Glad I am not in that part of the world. I do not think anyone can imagine what it would be like to not be able to walk down the street for fear of terrorist attacks in broad daylight. The US will be diplomatic as usual. And I agree, the fighting will never cease! Just keep it out of our borders!!

The likelihood of an attack within our borders increases with almost every new appointment to the new cabinet. A CIA head that has absolutely ZERO intelligence background and a Homeland Security head that has history pushing for open borders tells me that there is going to be a huge turn in the way we deal with immigration and how we will be able to gain the knowledge to thwart attacks on the homeland. I have read several editorials in the past few days predicting an attack within the U.S. during the first 6 months of 2009. Why would the radicals do that after 8 years of not doing it?????? Because of the apparents willingness of the incoming administration to talk about what they did to us instead of preventing it in the first place or raining hell down on them, their sponsors, their families, pets, and infrastructure. And to tell you the truth, if these countries that support or tolerate these idiots within their borders get blown to hell, let them stay that way and don't spend the money to rebuild them. They will hate us anyway.

Now I am putting my soapbox away.

Get yourself out of debt if possible and get yourself armed

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
alright man, you have to take the foot off the pedal and quit believing everything is an argument. I'm actually fascinated by them and believe had we followed their example in treating these pockets of terrorists we may have had a better outcome after 9/11. I'm pro-Israel man, but I'm not indifferent to the suffering of the arabs. Their world was turned upside down the last decade by europe and us meddling with it. :clap: That's what I was trying to explain to Necks_Fan earlier....first of all...these terrorists are not fighting for any said country (with the exception of the Palestinians perhaps)per say...they are fighting for/over beliefs and a cause they champion.....and the fact that they think we have our noses where they don't belong. (In our case)....I believe I'm somewhat on track here in saying this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Electus Unus]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Religion makes the world a scary place as well. I'm not for outlawing religion, but I believe it should play no role in govt or military policy. Religion makes the place more scary than if there wasn't religion. With religion you have people strapping themselves with bombs because they think it is there path to righteousness. I really think the world would be more peaceful without religion.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pawdaddy
The likelihood of an attack within our borders increases with almost every new appointment to the new cabinet. A CIA head that has absolutely ZERO intelligence background and a Homeland Security head that has history pushing for open borders tells me that there is going to be a huge turn in the way we deal with immigration and how we will be able to gain the knowledge to thwart attacks on the homeland. I have read several editorials in the past few days predicting an attack within the U.S. during the first 6 months of 2009. Why would the radicals do that after 8 years of not doing it?????? Because of the apparents willingness of the incoming administration to talk about what they did to us instead of preventing it in the first place or raining hell down on them, their sponsors, their families, pets, and infrastructure. And to tell you the truth, if these countries that support or tolerate these idiots within their borders get blown to hell, let them stay that way and don't spend the money to rebuild them. They will hate us anyway.

Now I am putting my soapbox away.

Get yourself out of debt if possible and get yourself armed
this is what happens when you let fear drive you! :rolleyes:

yes we know, the end of the world is coming. gun won't stop it on dec 21 2012 lmao no see ya in montana

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Religion makes the world a scary place as well. I'm not for outlawing religion, but I believe it should play no role in govt or military policy. agreed...but in that part of the world is always has.....Religion comes before government in a lot of cases. I won't get into my views/beliefs on organized religion, how it came to be, or any of that....but anyway.

[Ingleside Fan]

Great chatting with all of you but have to go. This is a very heated subject for both sides. I believe we need to support our proven friend, Israel out of the region they are the only ones that have stood with us through think or thin. :D

Have a great night.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
agreed...but in that part of the world is always has.....Religion comes before government in a lot of cases. I won't get into my views/beliefs on organized religion, how it came to be, or any of that....but anyway. I believe even when our leaders use god and jesus in statements discussing the war it sends the wrong message. Now, I know the religious folk will get all up in arms about this, but think about what they perceive it as? I know it isn't a holy war, but after it is obfuscated and twisted into somthing else by al jazeera it certainly appears like a crusade to those nations. Our leaders have to be more careful with their wording in these matters. a thin veil seperates our actions from theirs, if we are perceived to be crusaders rather than liberators, no matter the truth, they'll believe it and that puts our boys in danger even further.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by Pawdaddy
The likelihood of an attack within our borders increases with almost every new appointment to the new cabinet. A CIA head that has absolutely ZERO intelligence background and a Homeland Security head that has history pushing for open borders tells me that there is going to be a huge turn in the way we deal with immigration and how we will be able to gain the knowledge to thwart attacks on the homeland. I have read several editorials in the past few days predicting an attack within the U.S. during the first 6 months of 2009. Why would the radicals do that after 8 years of not doing it?????? Because of the apparents willingness of the incoming administration to talk about what they did to us instead of preventing it in the first place or raining hell down on them, their sponsors, their families, pets, and infrastructure. And to tell you the truth, if these countries that support or tolerate these idiots within their borders get blown to hell, let them stay that way and don't spend the money to rebuild them. They will hate us anyway.

Now I am putting my soapbox away.


Get yourself out of debt if possible and get yourself armed
Wow :thinking: :thinking:

[Pawdaddy]

Originally posted by DDBooger
this is what happens when you let fear drive you! :rolleyes:

yes we know, the end of the world is coming. gun won't stop it on dec 21 2012 lmao no see ya in montana

You do not have to be a history student to see these things, just 18 or older and have a little understanding of current events.

Is your date there arbitrarily sarcastic or is it a prediction?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Great chatting with all of you but have to go. This is a very heated subject for both sides. I believe we need to support our proven friend, Israel out of the region they are the only ones that have stood with us through think or thin. :D

Have a great night. haha I believe it has been US who have stood by them through thick and thin! we don't need Israel, they need us! as a matter of fact we need Saudia Arabia more than we need Israel. ;)

nice talk

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
agreed...but in that part of the world is always has.....Religion comes before government in a lot of cases. I won't get into my views/beliefs on organized religion, how it came to be, or any of that....but anyway.

Yeah, let's not go there :)

I'm headed home. I hope I don't regret leaving this open!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pawdaddy
You do not have to be a history student to see these things, just 18 or older and have a little understanding of current events.

Is your date there arbitrarily sarcastic or is it a prediction? dude, seriously, if you feel your less safe then buy a 50 cal sniper rifle for all I care, otherwise you sound like another fear monger, we saw how that worked out for us the last 8 years. We saw an admin take advantage of its populace by telling us we were safe as it rolled back the constitution. If those in power were experienced the last 8 years, hell, then good, lets get some new blood in there, not the status quo.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I believe even when our leaders use god and jesus in statements discussing the war it sends the wrong message. Now, I know the religious folk will get all up in arms about this, but think about what they perceive it as? I know it isn't a holy war, but after it is obfuscated and twisted into somthing else by al jazeera it certainly appears like a crusade to those nations. Our leaders have to be more careful with their wording in these matters. a thin veil seperates our actions from theirs, if we are perceived to be crusaders rather than liberators, no matter the truth, they'll believe it and that puts our boys in danger even further. totally agreed.......when we throw the word "God" out there...it's almost a preconceived sort of thing ....an NBA basketball player that thanks God for a championship.....the majority of Americans don't take religion nearly as seriously as most of the Arab/Islamic world...you are absolutely right. Religion governs them moreso than the actual government.....I've lived amongst them for over a year....not on any military installation...but in downtown Kuwait City, Kuwait...shopped in their stores, went to their coffee shops...commuted every day on their roadways, etc....so I feel I can say that w/ 100% certainty.

[DDBooger]

I'm done guys, AWESOME CONVO, civil for the most part! :)

MODs should move this to the off topic so it doesn't create to much of a ruckus. There are people who can talk civily and then there are people who will just say outlandish things lol

[IHStangFan]

alright all...I gotta run.....I VERY much enjoyed this....it was very engaging and educational. Please lets not get it closed!!

Be back later.

[Rabid Cougar]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
totally agreed.......when we throw the word "God" out there...it's almost a preconceived sort of thing ....an NBA basketball player that thanks God for a championship.....the majority of Americans don't take religion nearly as seriously as most of the Arab/Islamic world...you are absolutely right. Religion governs them moreso than the actual government.....I've lived amongst them for over a year....not on any military installation...but in downtown Kuwait City, Kuwait...shopped in their stores, went to their coffee shops...commuted every day on their roadways, etc....so I feel I can say that w/ 100% certainty.

I agree.. If you listen to thier conversations , there is an "Inshalla" "God Willing" or a "God be praised" in every other sentence. And the thing about it, they REALLY mean it.

Kuwaiti's are snobs. Iraqi's are much friendlier.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
I agree.. If you listen to thier conversations , there is an "Inshalla" "God Willing" or a "God be praised" in every other sentence. And the thing about it, they REALLY mean it.

Kuwaiti's are snobs. Iraqi's are much friendlier. true Kuwaitis are very much elitists. Seen it first hand. A large part of the population in Kuwait is hired labor....usually Filipinos and Indians (dot...not feather)...and they are generally treated very badly. Saw a Kuwaiti security officer at the airport actually KICK an elderly Indian woman. So.....I agree w/ you.

[MN95]

A day on the 3ADL.......how many starters are you returning?.................inflatable sex dolls...............and a middle east discussion that could rival anything on a Sunday morning talk show. Good stuff.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by MN95
......and a middle east discussion that could rival anything on a Sunday morning talk show. Good stuff.

I wouldn't go that far.

In the end it doesn't matter what we all think, God's Will will be done in his way and in his time.

[Bullaholic]

Things are not looking good--there are now reports that Hezbollah has fired rockets South from Lebanon into Israel.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5053R720090108

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Things are not looking good--there are now reports that Hezbollah has fired rockets South from Lebanon into Israel. that name got thrown out there, but 3 rockets is not the work of Hezbollah. With them having a say in the Lebanese parliament, they stand to lose a lot. As the Lebanese said, it is likely those who stand to lose a lot for peace being brokered. hope calmer heads prevail and Hezbollah reigns in the culprits.

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
that name got thrown out there, but 3 rockets is not the work of Hezbollah. With them having a say in the Lebanese parliament, they stand to lose a lot. As the Lebanese said, it is likely those who stand to lose a lot for peace being brokered. hope calmer heads prevail and Hezbollah reigns in the culprits.

Hezbollah's primary goal is the elimination of the state of Israel.

The rockets came from Southeast Lebanon, which is control by Hezbollah. So reasoning would have it, if not Hezbollah then someone that is supported by them.

Maybe a rogue cell??

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Hezbollah's primary goal is the elimination of the state of Israel. incorrect, their primary goal, and initial motive was the removal of Israel from occupied Lebanon, this included the American Marines who were assualted in 83?


Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
The rockets came from Southeast Lebanon, which is control by Hezbollah. So reasoning would have it, if not Hezbollah then someone that is supported by them. naturally, how else do they hit Israel, Lebanon nor Hezbollah has that type of missile tech, yet. 3 unguided rockets screams of Rogue cell (by those within their party who are for the destruction of Israel) as you speculated. every org. has it's hardliners, even in American politics.

[Bullaholic]

Syria and iran will supply Hamas and Hezbollah with anything they can sneak under the table during this conflict.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Syria and iran will supply Hamas and Hezbollah with anything they can sneak under the table during this conflict. just like we'll supply Israel with best and most deadly weapons in the world.

oh and don't forget the Chinese, the silkworm missile fired in the 06 conflict that sunk the Israeli cruiser was from China via Iran.

[Old Green]

Good discussion Guys. Thanks for keeping it civil:thumbsup:

[Ingleside Fan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
incorrect, their primary goal, and initial motive was the removal of Israel from occupied Lebanon, this included the American Marines who were assualted in 83?

naturally, how else do they hit Israel, Lebanon nor Hezbollah has that type of missile tech, yet. 3 unguided rockets screams of Rogue cell (by those within their party who are for the destruction of Israel) as you speculated. every org. has it's hardliners, even in American politics.

Your right in 1982 Hezbollah was founded with a their primary cause was to end colonization of Lebanon by any outside country. But their ideology has developed to elimination of all who do not follow the Muslim belief.

Katyusha, Fajr, Zelzal-2 rockets used by Hezbollah have no guidence system. Just old Soviet rockets, point and shoot.

Since the 2000 withdrawal, Hezbollah has been able to launch rockets hitting targets as far south as Hadera during the 2006 Lebanon War.They speak of peace but their action show their turn colors. Hezbollah and Hamas cannot live peacefully as neighbors of Israel.

So, Israel leaves Lebanon and Hezbollah fire over 4000 rockets into Israel. That really shows that they want peace? Again Israel gives and Hezbollah and Hamas attack.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Your right in 1982 Hezbollah was founded with a their primary cause was to end colonization of Lebanon by any outside country. But their ideology has developed to elimination of all who do not follow the Muslim belief.
some, not all are as militant, I don't judge either political party here by their radicals.


Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Katyusha, Fajr, Zelzal-2 rockets used by Hezbollah have no guidence system. Just old Soviet rockets, point and shoot. yup


Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
Your Since the 2000 withdrawal, Hezbollah has been able to launch rockets hitting targets as far south as Hadera during the 2006 Lebanon War.They speak of peace but their action show their turn colors. Hezbollah and Hamas cannot live peacefully as neighbors of Israel.Again, you ignore Israel's transgressions, as well as border quarrels as to the actual boundaries. That being said, Israel further legitimized the need for a Hezbollah miltary wing after the 2006 invasion. The UN all but brokered a deal requiring the disarmament of Hezbollah and recognition of them as a politcal party. The 2006 invasion gave them credibility in their necessity. Right or wrong. Israel should have either finished the job in 2006 or not have gone in. They lost a lot of face in retreat. Don't be fooled into thinking external pressure did this. Their is equal amount of disagreement in the Israeli parliament about how to handle HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH


Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
So, Israel leaves Lebanon and Hezbollah fire over 4000 rockets into Israel. That really shows that they want peace? Again Israel gives and Hezbollah and Hamas attack. again, you are only looking at things from one perspective and subjectively. Hezbollah is not innocent, but the Likud party is largely viewed as having EMPOWERED the militants through their actions in Israel. The cross border raids by Hezbollah were in order to barter a deal to get back their fighers from Israel who will not negotiate an exchange. These were fighters taken IN Lebanon. One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. We backed terrorist actions in central america and mujahadeen in Afghanistan as freedom fighters. Things are always contextual.

[Bullaholic]

Going back to the fundamental differences between the combatants:

Hamas and Hezbollah as well as all other radical-factions and their supportive states embrace the goal of the destruction and non-recognition of Israel as a country. There is no room for gray-line interpretation of this stated policy. The adherence to such a policy can only end with 1 clear-cut winner in any conflict---there is no moderate position.

Israel does not insist on the destruction of any existing country and does not pursue the policy of open agression and threat at every opportunity. Israel has been somewhat heavy-handed in some of it's responses to perceived threats in the past, but they have never had conquest or destruction of a existing nation as a stated goal for their actions. Israel wants to be allowed to exist in peace in the region and be left alone within the confines of its borders.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Going back to the fundamental differences between the combatants:

Hamas and Hezbollah as well as all other radical-factions and their supportive states embrace the goal of the destruction and non-recognition of Israel as a country. There is no room for gray-line interpretation of this stated policy. The adherence to such a policy can only end with 1 clear-cut winner in any conflict---there is no moderate position. you couldn't be further from the truth in regards to Hezbollah. They are not all radical, and they are all not so concerned with Israel as you speak. The wing in their party that is anti-israeli is largely funded by Syrian and Iranian money. Their are other wings in the party that realize they will never succeed as a nation until they can be seen as a legitimate representative of the Lebanese people.


Originally posted by Bullaholic
Israel does not insist on the destruction of any existing country and does not pursue the policy of open agression and threat at every opportunity. yes but civies killed by those org. are terrorist acts. Civies killed by Israeli military is collateral damage. Don't kid yourself, they weigh the importance of every target, they sometimes choose to go forward despite civilians.


Originally posted by Bullaholic
Israel has been somewhat heavy-handed in some of it's responses to perceived threats in the past, but they have never had conquest or destruction of a existing nation as a stated goal for their actions. Israel wants to be allowed to exist in peace in the region and be left alone within the confines of its borders. True, but for them to feel safe they feel they have to subjegate a whole population in gaza. Until the Palestinians are allowed to self-rule w/o Israeli intervention perhaps we'll have peace. This is where moderate Arab nations must step in and provide aid that isn't attached to weapons as is done by Syria and Iran. We should pressure the Saudi's to assist us in bartering this peace.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by DDBooger
you couldn't be further from the truth in regards to Hezbollah. They are not all radical, and they are all not so concerned with Israel as you speak. The wing in their party that is anti-israeli is largely funded by Syrian and Iranian money. Their are other wings in the party that realize they will never succeed as a nation until they can be seen as a legitimate representative of the Lebanese people.


yes but civies killed by those org. are terrorist acts. Civies killed by Israeli military is collateral damage. Don't kid yourself, they weigh the importance of every target, they sometimes choose to go forward despite civilians.


True, but for them to feel safe they feel they have to subjegate a whole population in gaza. Until the Palestinians are allowed to self-rule w/o Israeli intervention perhaps we'll have peace. This is where moderate Arab nations must step in and provide aid that isn't attached to weapons as is done by Syria and Iran. We should pressure the Saudi's to assist us in bartering this peace.


When you sink low enough to use your own people as human "shields" and hide munitions stockpiles in religious structures---there are going to be civilian casualties and religious structures destroyed.

There may indeed be a few moderates in Hezbollah but they are still outweighed by Syrian control and Hezbollah, as a body, repsponds accordingly.

I agree that there must be the immediate establishment of a Palestinian homeland with a Palestinian government before there can be a permanent peace. I don't care if its the Saudis or any other Middle-eastern country/countries who can broker this deal.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I agree that there must be the immediate establishment of a Palestinian homeland with a Palestinian government before there can be a permanent peace. I don't care if its the Saudis or any other Middle-eastern country/countries who can broker this deal.
interesting read on the situation. STRATFOR is an excellent, unpolitical newsource. I pay for my subscription but this tells of the complexity of the situation.
STRATFOR (http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20081023_egypt_lebanon_heightening_hezbollah_rifts )
Egypt, Lebanon: Heightening Hezbollah Rifts
October 23, 2008 | 1937 GMT
Iranian women holding pictures of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah
ATTA KENARE/AFP/Getty Images
Iranian women holding pictures of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah
Summary

Egypt is rumored to have invited Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah to Cairo for an official visit. Whatever the veracity of the rumors, Arab powers are working to heighten splits in the Shiite movement, box in Syria and reduce Iranian influence in the region. Meanwhile, the reported Egyptian move dovetails nicely with Israeli strategy.
Analysis
Related Special Topic Pages

* Hezbollah
* Israel, Syria and Lebanon: A Tangled Web

The Arab media has been filled with rumors the week of Oct. 19 regarding Egypt extending an invitation to Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah to come to Cairo on an official visit. The Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar reported Oct. 21 that the visit would take place before the end of 2008 and that it is not clear whether Nasrallah himself would go or if he plans to send Hezbollah member of parliament Muhammad Fneish instead. Unnamed Egyptian sources then denied any such invitation was made in an Oct. 22 report in Saudi-owned Asharq Al-Awsat. There have also been recent reports in the Arab media on Saudi Arabia extending a similar invitation to Nasrallah.

Though whether the Egyptians issued Nasrallah a formal invitation remains unclear, there is little doubt that the major Arab powers are reaching out to select Hezbollah figures to exacerbate rifts in the movement, constrain Syria and undermine Iranian influence in the region.

Egypt has been observing closely the ongoing peace negotiations between Syria and Israel. The Egyptians understand well that any final understanding between the Syrians and the Israelis would have to entail, among other things, a Syrian commitment to crush Hezbollah’s militant arm in exchange for Syrian hegemony over Lebanon. Cairo, which has more or less been taking a backseat in major diplomatic efforts in the Arab world over the past couple of years, rather enjoyed having the Syrians contained and isolated following the 2005 assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri, which resulted in Syrian troops being driven out of Lebanon. Now that Syria stands a chance to return in full force to Lebanon, the Egyptians are feeling compelled to get back onto the diplomatic scene and keep Syrian plans in check.

It is therefore not surprising that the Egyptians are reaching out to certain segments of Hezbollah. Of particular importance is Nasrallah’s having been sought out. Despite his occasional fiery rhetoric against Israel (aimed mainly at domestic consumption), Nasrallah is actually one of the more moderate Hezbollah elites. His efforts to pull Hezbollah deeper into the Lebanese political mainstream (and away from the image of an Iranian proxy) caused him to fall out of favor with the Iranian leadership over the past year as Tehran grew more and more distrustful of Nasrallah’s pragmatic and accommodating attitude with Syrian and Lebanese political leaders. In December 2007, Nasrallah was effectively demoted on Iranian orders and was forced to hand much of his responsibilities over to his deputy, Naim Qasim. Though Nasrallah still holds the title of chief of Hezbollah due to his appeal among Hezbollah’s Shiite followers, the Iranians have been quietly restructuring the organization, putting more hard-line and loyal figures in place to firm up Tehran’s grip over the group.

According to one source, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak reportedly sent a personal letter to Nasrallah through Amr Moussa, the Arab League’s secretary-general. In his letter, Mubarak reportedly told Nasrallah that Hezbollah has already achieved its objectives by “liberating southern Lebanon in 2000” and “valiantly standing up to the Israeli army in 2006.” He told him it is now high time to lay down its weapons. The source added that Mubarak tried to convince Nasrallah that Hezbollah’s influence and reputation have peaked, and that continuing to serve as Iran’s forward division in the Middle East would most likely be suicidal for the group. Stratfor cannot confirm that this letter was actually sent. But the Egyptians certainly have a keen interest in building ties with the more moderate elements in Hezbollah, as the organization is already facing an impending crisis over its fate given the deep Israeli-Syrian negotiations over the group’s future. One Hezbollah faction sees it as in the group’s interest to accept its fate from a Syrian-Israeli peace agreement, and focus more on building an identity as a Lebanese political, social and economic movement.

It is unclear whether Israel is directly coordinating with Cairo to reach out to Nasrallah, but Egypt’s moves play well to Israel’s objective of clipping Hezbollah’s wings. The story of Mubarak inviting Nasrallah to Cairo has already brought to light the deep splits within Hezbollah, thereby undermining the group’s internal cohesion and bringing Iran’s authority over its militant proxy into question. For its part, Israel does not want to rely too heavily on Syria in pursuing its goals of dismantling Hezbollah’s military arm. Though the Israelis need Syrian cooperation to effectively dismember Hezbollah, Israel also needs to work through a number of a contentious demands that the Syrians are making in their negotiations. The more work Egypt, or even Saudi Arabia, does to exacerbate splits within Hezbollah and bring more moderate elements into line, the more leverage Israel has in dealing with the Syrians.

Any attempts by the Arab powers to split Hezbollah will be met with firm Iranian resistance. The Iranians have already spent a great deal of time and effort restructuring Hezbollah to more firmly align with Tehran’s interests and keep moderate figures like Nasrallah in check. Private visits by Nasrallah to Cairo will be difficult considering that the Iranians cover his security detail. Iran has the assets in place to shield Hezbollah from these moves and potentially to undermine the stability of the Syrian regime to derail the talks with Israel. But the forces behind the Israeli-Syrian negotiations and the common interest among surrounding Arab powers to box Hezbollah in will make it increasingly difficult for Iran to hold onto its militant proxy in the long run.

[DDBooger]

yes they use human shields, again, how else do you nullify a VASTLY superior technological advantage. They use our morals against us. Don't be fooled, faced with same situation, we may have done the same. Many families during the Revolution were pillaged and killed for aiding militia and minutemen. Ugly side of war when you are vastly outgunned.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Better not mess with the Israelis...they have a very good QB, without question, the best to EVER play the game.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Spaceman_Spiff
Better not mess with the Israelis...they have a very good QB, without question, the best to EVER play the game. speaking of, who is the best Jewish Qb :thinking: lol

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Sticking with my previous reply...it has to be the "trigger man" for the Israeli Missiles...seriously, if there really is a Jewish QB, I have no idea who it is.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Spaceman_Spiff
Sticking with my previous reply...it has to be the "trigger man" for the Israeli Missiles...seriously, if there really is a Jewish QB, I have no idea who it is. There has to be...read Benny Friedman from the Giants in the 20s and 30s in enshrined the HOF. I always thought Joe Theismann was?:thinking:
Jay Fiedler is, but he wasn't so great.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
speaking of, who is the best Jewish Qb :thinking: lol Peyton Manning is Jewish?!?!?! :D Sorry I missed so much today guys....I had to go get my new ID card made. I'm too tired to weigh in tonight though....I'll catch back up tomorrow. :)