Best football programs

[orange machine]

This is not just recent succsess over the last year or two.

5a
SLC
Odessa Permian
Plano
Katy
Converse Judson
Midland Lee

4a
Stephenville
La Marque
Ennis
Highland Park

3a
Celina
Brownwood
Gilmer
Cuero

2a
Mart
Refugio
Crawford
Garrison
Dangerfield

I have no idea about 1a. Add to the list if you know of anymore.

[Necks_Fan]

Are they in any particular order, if so.....


Then Katy should be #1 in 5A.

They won state in a "down" year. Lol.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
Are they in any particular order, if so.....


Then Katy should be #1 in 5A.

They won state in a "down" year. Lol.

I think if Katy is one they share it with SLC, with the run SLC has had in 5A not sure anyone can be above them

[michaelp23]

Not sure I'd list Brownwood as a top 3A football program seeing as how they've won a total of 3 games in 3A......

:doh: :doh: :doh:

[orange machine]

Originally posted by michaelp23
Not sure I'd list Brownwood as a top 3A football program seeing as how they've won a total of 3 games in 3A......

:doh: :doh: :doh:

I have them listed because they are in 3a, but im refering to there history. Really you could probably take Brownwood out because they have fallen off over the last few years, but i gave it to them because they were once a really good team for a long time many years ago.

[WTF-82]

Originally posted by orange machine
I have them listed because they are in 3a, but im refering to there history. Really you could probably take Brownwood out because they have fallen off over the last few years, but i gave it to them because they were once a really good team for a long time many years ago.


They will be back.

[block&tackle]

If you are talking about best programs , those teams that have had success without the outstanding athletes every year like Liberty Hill (4th in total wins this decade with 2 titles) and Abilene Wylie (3rd with 1 title) cannot be left off this list.

I can't leave Gilmer off (2nd with 1 title) but I am tempted cause the results don't come anywhere near what their talent level has been.

Wimberly is pretty high on the wins list and their 2005 team alone merits mention. Cuero is high but it has been over 20 years since they won the big one and that alone should keep them off this list; plus they are playing in Region IV.

If you are going to include Brownwood, you might as well include Temple and Abilene High on the 5A lists - all three are more suited to a history book than they are a list of the best high school football programs

[WTF-82]

Monahans Lobo Football Program best small school Program in the Permian Basin.

[orange machine]

I forgot about Italy

[orange machine]

Goldwaith was once pretty good if i remember right.

[Electus Unus]

What good is history if your team isn't performing now? Just useless information to increase the ego of that teams fans, players, and coaches heads.

[Rabid Cougar]

Liberty Hill can only be considered for this decade. Before that they were pretty much Homecoming opponents.

Cameron should be strongly considered for 3A.

[Lion_Addict]

Originally posted by ***-82
They will be back.

With a Vengeance :devil: :evilgrin: :evil:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by orange machine
This is not just recent succsess over the last year or two.

2a
Mart

I think Mart dropped to 1A this past alignment.

[Looking4number8]

Originally posted by Lion_Addict
With a Vengeance :devil: :evilgrin: :evil:


^^^^^ Gotta say my friend, that is your best post ever....except for the one that got deleted last week!^^^^

[N4SIR]

I would like to submit Big Sandy and Roscoe for 1A schools. Big Sandy certainly for past hitory and Roscoe for recent history.

[Rocket Dad]

What is the definition of "best programs" in the state ? Is it simply the # of wins or is it a combination of other things ? For example, I could list several schools with lots of wins that I would not come close to letting my kids or grandkids attend because of other issues. I know of several great football programs in Texas that average 5 or 6 wins a year, but the lessons learned in these programs are undefeated. I also know of many that win lots of games AND run quality programs. Those are the best to me.

[Lion_Addict]

Originally posted by Looking4number8
^^^^^ Gotta say my friend, that is your best post ever....except for the one that got deleted last week!^^^^

Shhhhhhh, they ain't all supposed to know about me getting in trouble. I'm the innocent one......remember ;)

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Lion_Addict
I'm the innocent one......remember ;)


:lies:

[OldNavy]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
What is the definition of "best programs" in the state ? Is it simply the # of wins or is it a combination of other things ? For example, I could list several schools with lots of wins that I would not come close to letting my kids or grandkids attend because of other issues. I know of several great football programs in Texas that average 5 or 6 wins a year, but the lessons learned in these programs are undefeated. I also know of many that win lots of games AND run quality programs. Those are the best to me.

Wow, I came to this thread thinking it was about the best "Programs," you know, the ones you buy before the game that has the player's names, their positions, weights and photos as well as pictures of all the cheerleaders and lots of advertisements. I thought Celina's program was great, but had not seen the programs from the other schools and was wondering how Orange Machine had been able to get all the programs from the other schools to be able to evaluate the quality of their publications.

So we are talking about football after all!

[Eagle1]

In 3A over the last 10 years
starting in West Texas
Sweetwater, Abilene Wylie, Vernon, Liberty Hill, Celina, Gilmer, West Orange, Cuero, Bellville, Giddings

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
What is the definition of "best programs" in the state ? Is it simply the # of wins or is it a combination of other things ? For example, I could list several schools with lots of wins that I would not come close to letting my kids or grandkids attend because of other issues. I know of several great football programs in Texas that average 5 or 6 wins a year, but the lessons learned in these programs are undefeated. I also know of many that win lots of games AND run quality programs. Those are the best to me.

To me it is quality programs and wins. If you can't win you lack a little quality in the win department.

My list would include


2a Mart refugio
3a Celina Cuero
4a La Marque
5a slc Plano Converse Judson

That is a restrictive list but if you look at the this list they have all been winning over the last 40 years with good winning percentages and total number of wins. I leave Bwood out because lately not so good for example(say last 20 years). Even tho Cuero has not been to the big dance lately they keep going deep and keep winning. You can argue for other teams but if you go over longer period of time and total number of playoff wins these teams stand out. These teams represent 8 of the top 11 teams in texas all classifications in playoff wins. In reverse order
11. Cuero 62-25-1
09. Mart 75-30-1
08. Celina 76-16-2
07. La Marque 77-26-2
05. Refugio 80-35-3
04. SLC 80-17-1
03. Converse Judson 81-24-1
01. Plano 86-35-2

I suppose you could argue for MOJO since they have started playing well lately and would be number two on this list.
Highland Park would be on my honorable mention list as well as
Katy.

[ctown]

You could rank them like that and no doubt they are all top notch. I also think you would want to consider rank by win to loss ratio in the playoffs. I know this helps Celina but it seems that those who win the most vs loose when they get into the playoffs should be considered.

[wtfootball]

I would have to expect Sweetwater as one of the top 3A programs just due to the history.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Gotta start with Katy. WOS, correct me if Im wrong on this
1994: State Finalist
1995: Semifinalist
1996: Quarterfinalist
1997: State Champions
1998: State Finalist(disqualified for player forging a grade report)
1999: State Finalist
2000: State Champions
2001: Semifinalist
2002: Semifinalist
2003: State Champions
2004: Quarterfinalist
2005: State finalist
2006: Quarterfinalist
2007: State Champions
2008: State Champions

State finals 9 out of 15 years, 5 state championships, never less than 4 rounds deep, and every playoff loss was to a state finalist.
Dont think you'll find that kind of consistent success at any other program in the state. On top of that, they share athletes in the city with 4 other schools.

95, 96, and 01 Katy lost in the 2nd round all to non-state finalist opponents.

[Emerson1]

SLC. Only real blemish the last 20 years is when they jumped from 3A to 4A. They had the streak to make up for it.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
95 and 96 I was unsure about, but who beat them in 01? Either way, I dont see anyone else in recent memory coming close to that.

Uh Celina.

95 State champion
96 area finalist
97 state quarters
98 state champion
99 state champion
00 state champion
01 state champion
02 area finalist
03 area finalist
04 state quarters
05 State champion
06 state finalist
07 state champion
08 state finalist

96 and 97 loss to eventual state champion Italy
04 loss to eventual state champion Crawford.
02 loss to Dangerfield.
03 loss to Gilmer.
9 times finalist 7 titles.
Won loss record
196 - 11.

[I_DONT_CARE]

WHY DID SOMEONE FROM CELINA EVEN START THIS THREAD? AREN'T THEY THE GREATEST TEAM TO EVER STEP ON THE FIELD? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[BILLYFRED0000]

The really scary part is that four of those losses are this year. Like we have said kind'a down year but the coaches and the young men pulled it together. During that time frame a couple of significant stats. 6 undefeated seasons. And we are the only school in the state to go to the finals four times in a row twice. 68 game winning streak state record. 25 playoff game winning streak state record. Four titles in a row. Eight total titles.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by I_DONT_CARE
WHY DID SOMEONE FROM CELINA EVEN START THIS THREAD? AREN'T THEY THE GREATEST TEAM TO EVER STEP ON THE FIELD? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Uhh no. I was replying to Ernest when he thought that no one else had ever come close. Just pointing it out. A side note, isn't it always interesting the feelings that are stirred up in others when true excellence abounds. We all want to be that excellent but hate it when someone actually is and it is not us. Katy put on an excellent run and so has SLC. Celina is just up there with them. Not by themselves.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Uhh no. I was replying to Ernest when he thought that no one else had ever come close. Just pointing it out. A side note, isn't it always interesting the feelings that are stirred up in others when true excellence abounds. We all want to be that excellent but hate it when someone actually is and it is not us.

And BTW, I would never take credit for what a great coaching staff has done over the years. My hat is off to G A Moore and his staff and now Butch Ford and his staff and what the young men they coached have acheived. May the wins keep coming.

[Trashman]

Originally posted by michaelp23
Not sure I'd list Brownwood as a top 3A football program seeing as how they've won a total of 3 games in 3A......

:doh: :doh: :doh:

not to mention 6 state championships.:hand:

[I_DONT_CARE]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Uhh no. I was replying to Ernest when he thought that no one else had ever come close. Just pointing it out. A side note, isn't it always interesting the feelings that are stirred up in others when true excellence abounds. We all want to be that excellent but hate it when someone actually is and it is not us. Katy put on an excellent run and so has SLC. Celina is just up there with them. Not by themselves.
HATE THE EXCELLENCE? NOT HARDLY, BUT IT DOESN'T NEED VERIFICATION EVERY OTHER WEEK, EITHER. :rolleyes:

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Think there's probably something to doing it at the highest level, as opposed to 2a or 3a.

I just knew that would be coming! :rolleyes:

[cshscougar08]

Yeah I knew someone would break that out.

[BwdLion73]

oops

[BwdLion73]

Trashman ... redeem yourself....thats 7 State and one runner up in 77. :eek: :eek: ...for a total of 8 trips

[cshscougar08]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
You think there's not a difference in competition?

Yes and no.

Yes there is a bit of a difference, simply because the sheer size of the schools allow for more athletes.

No because I think the actual competition between the schools is the same at all levels. Everyone in every classification is in pretty much the same boat size wise. Everyone still competes and plays hard no matter the size of the school or team.

[Trashman]

Originally posted by BwdLion73
Trashman ... redeem yourself....thats 7 State and one runner up in 77. :eek: :eek: ...for a total of 8 trips

wasn't the 7 title in 4A?:D

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Desire, heart, will to win, etc....is the same. But, the competition level between schools is much higher in the upper classes. You rarely see the 40 and 50 point games in 5a b/c when both teams have 3000+ kids, everyone's gonna have athletes. Example, Plano East had 5 D1 commitments this year, and went 1-9. 5 D1s in 3a pretty much guarantees you a state championship.
I used to say that the only difference between 3a and 5a was the size of the band, but after actually being there, I can say there's a HUGE difference.

40 and 50 point games may be less common in 5A, but they aren't rare!

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Ok, argue semantics. Either way, HUGE competitve difference.

In this case semantics make a difference. Still there is not a significant difference in the top or bottom point differentials throughout the different classifications. That would seem to indicate relatively equal competition within all classifications.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
It IS relatively equal in the higher classes. Like I said, when both schools have 3,000+ kids, both are gonna have 22 kids who can play football. However, when both have 500-700, more than likely there's a few who are playing b/c there's no one else to play that position. A few good athletes make a HUGE difference in that case. We had 6 D1 kids and were barely an above average team this year.

Well apparently it is relatively equal in the lower classes also otherwise there would be a significant difference in the point differentials from the higher classes to the lower classes. That is simply not the case. The difference in the haves and the have nots is not as great as you think.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes, there's a HUGE difference. And 40 and 50 point games are MUCH rarer in the higher classes.
Go check the scores of Allen games. See how many close games they played and how many 40 point victories there were. Then go check Carthage scores and look at the same thing. There are many more have nots in the lower classes.
Maybe this one of those things that you have to experience to understand.

Yes, I know I am not a coach, so I cannot understand. I still find it funny you bother to discuss anything with the majority of us since we aren't coaches and therefore cannot understand.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Was referring more to being involved in several classes. Not necessarily being a coach, DB.

I can't help it if I never went to school at a 1A or 2A school!

[BwdLion73]

Originally posted by Trashman
wasn't the 7 title in 4A?:D

Your right...we can't count winning state in 4 A ....:p

[cshscougar08]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Ok, argue semantics. Either way, HUGE competitve difference.

But see I wouldn't call it a COMPETITIVE difference. You said yourself, everyone comes out to play whether you have 20 players or 100 on the team. It's simply a size difference, which leads to a TALENT difference.