Cowboy fans..Take a Step Back [Archive]

Txbroadcaster

12-30-2008, 03:21 PM

I know since we are in Texas, and of course because Dallas is a media magnet we tend to revolve ourselves in all things Cowboys

BUT

Dallas was not only team to collapse, and honestly some others were worse

Denver, Tampa and the Jets all collapsed..Tampa only had to beat the friggin Raiders

Denver last week got beat by Buffalo when all they had to do is win and they are in

The Jets were booking SB plans earlier this year and then EVERYthing fell apart

As bad as the score looked agianst Philly, there December schedule was agianst some of the top teams, and except for this past game, they had a chance to win each one

and last thing

Only ONE team from the NFC sho made the play-offs last year are back this year...so while the bottom dropped out, it is not like the media acts and Dallas is the only one

turbostud

12-30-2008, 03:25 PM

How about the Chargers making the playoffs at 8-8 and New England not at 11-5! That sux.

Pmoney

12-30-2008, 03:32 PM

Sadly as a Jaguars fan...we were just as disappointing as the cowboys, playoff team last yr and 5-11 this yr, but I think it is a big deal because the drama that has happened in dallas this yr

Macarthur

12-30-2008, 03:38 PM

My post from another thread:

I think many of us have had emotional reactions in the days after this game. I know I did. As time goes by and I'm able to calm down and look at things rationally, I think there's some tangible things to explain the Cowboys trouble this year.

Injuries.

This team was hit hard by injuries.

-The secondary had tons of injuries and played much of the year with 2 rookies and a very rusty and overrated Pacman.

-Romo...not only did he miss time, I don't think he was anywhere close to healthy as the year went on.

-OL depth was a huge issue. Hard to imagine that one injury could be such a factor, but it was. Also, Flozell was injured for much of the year (bad shoulder).

-Felix....was becoming a huge threat. Obviously, Choice did well, but not having Felix's homerun threat hurt.

-Roy Williams...again not reported much but spent much of his time here battling plantar faciatis. ANyone that has had this (I have) knows how difficult this is...I can't imagine playing WR with it. Mickey Spagnola said early last week that he had trouble walking down the steps to get to practice.

-McBriar...lost a guy that could totally change field position. We really didn't realize how valuable he was until he was gone.

-Barber...certainly minimized with Choice who played very well, however Barber, when healthy, I think inspires the team with his style of play. He brings an attitude to the offense that was missing as the year wound down.

Having said all this, I think you could make the argument that 9-7 was not as huge a disappointment as we first thought.

Also, keep in mind, this teams record the last 4 years:

9-7
9-7
13-3
9-7

Is this team a 13-3 team or a 9-7 team?

I think the answer is somewhere in between. Keep in mind, last year they had a couple of breaks in games that went their way. This year, those breaks went against them. Sometimes that's the difference in 9-7 and out of the playoffs and 11-5 and being in.

I think the biggest issue with this team is leadership. They have some guys that have high character - Whitten, Romo, Barber, Ware, James - but they need someone to kick butts.

I think the problem, and I'm not a hater, is that everyone walks around on egg shells around TO. No one wants to upset him so noone confronts him. That's why I think TO needs to go. I think letting TO go, Pac and Tank would almost immediately strengthen the locker room.

__________________

Macarthur

12-30-2008, 04:08 PM

I understand that this is what they are this year.

That really wasn't what I meant by the question.

Keith7

12-30-2008, 04:19 PM

How about the eagles winning 4 of their last 5 games to make the playoffs!

haha have fun watching us beat the Vikings

nobogey72

12-30-2008, 04:21 PM

I am trying really hard to remain a Romo fan. I think he is a high character guy and a solid teammate, and an above average QB but......... I wish he wouldn't hang his head (literally) after a bad throw or fumble or whatever. I would rather he take his helmet and slam it down or throw a fit on the sidelines than drop his head down and walk around like he just lost his dog. JMO

Farmersfan

12-30-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I know since we are in Texas, and of course because Dallas is a media magnet we tend to revolve ourselves in all things Cowboys

BUT

Dallas was not only team to collapse, and honestly some others were worse

Denver, Tampa and the Jets all collapsed..Tampa only had to beat the friggin Raiders

Denver last week got beat by Buffalo when all they had to do is win and they are in

The Jets were booking SB plans earlier this year and then EVERYthing fell apart

As bad as the score looked agianst Philly, there December schedule was agianst some of the top teams, and except for this past game, they had a chance to win each one

and last thing

Only ONE team from the NFC sho made the play-offs last year are back this year...so while the bottom dropped out, it is not like the media acts and Dallas is the only one

Only one thing wrong with your post:

None of those other teams you mentioned were favored by most to win a Superbowl and is likely the most talented team to be assembled in years. If you doubt the extent of the under-acheivement of this team do a little exercise: Compare this team to all other teams on a position by position basis. You will see that none will compare. Take just the skill positions of Romo, Barber, Choice/Jones, T.O., Williams, Crayton, Witten and NO other team can touch them. All the things you said might have some merit if they had lost in the NFC championship game but to miss the playoffs completely is unforgiveable.
I say JJ has to clean house now because this group of coaches and players will not get it done. Too many EGOs and EGGHEADs. You decide who is who!!!!!!

Txbroadcaster

12-30-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Only one thing wrong with your post:

None of those other teams you mentioned were favored by most to win a Superbowl and is likely the most talented team to be assembled in years. If you doubt the extent of the under-acheivement of this team do a little exercise: Compare this team to all other teams on a position by position basis. You will see that none will compare. Take just the skill positions of Romo, Barber, Choice/Jones, T.O., Williams, Crayton, Witten and NO other team can touch them. All the things you said might have some merit if they had lost in the NFC championship game but to miss the playoffs completely is unforgiveable.
I say JJ has to clean house now because this group of coaches and players will not get it done. Too many EGOs and EGGHEADs. You decide who is who!!!!!!

Never said this team did not underachieve or that what I said excuses what happen

Just making the point that Dallas was not only team to collapse

bobcat1

12-30-2008, 04:44 PM

Keith7 before: http://virgil.azwestern.edu/~dag/lol/images/ZipLip.jpg

Keith7 now: http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Creatures_and_Cartoons/Smiles/talking.gif

Farmersfan

12-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I know since we are in Texas, and of course because Dallas is a media magnet we tend to revolve ourselves in all things Cowboys

BUT

Dallas was not only team to collapse, and honestly some others were worse

Denver, Tampa and the Jets all collapsed..Tampa only had to beat the friggin Raiders

Denver last week got beat by Buffalo when all they had to do is win and they are in

The Jets were booking SB plans earlier this year and then EVERYthing fell apart

As bad as the score looked agianst Philly, there December schedule was agianst some of the top teams, and except for this past game, they had a chance to win each one

and last thing

Only ONE team from the NFC sho made the play-offs last year are back this year...so while the bottom dropped out, it is not like the media acts and Dallas is the only one

It's nice to see that this once great organization is now being compared to Tampa, Jets and Denver...................
Bottom line is a team this talented should win. issues and bad coaching prevented this from happening. Jones has to correct both or this team cannot win. Philips is the first to go, then Garrett and then start cleaning house. Pac-man first then T.O..... Bring in some REAL QB's and open the competition in training camp next year.......

JR2004

12-30-2008, 04:51 PM

crzyjournalist03

12-30-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
It's nice to see that this once great organization is now being compared to Tampa, Jets and Denver...................
Bottom line is a team this talented should win. issues and bad coaching prevented this from happening. Jones has to correct both or this team cannot win. Philips is the first to go, then Garrett and then start cleaning house. Pac-man first then T.O..... Bring in some REAL QB's and open the competition in training camp next year.......

umm...every team goes through struggles...the Cowboys would have killed to have been compared with Denver in the late 90s or Tampa earlier this decade. A few losing years doesn't deface an organization. Heck, the New York Yankees stunk it up for almost 20 years straight until 1996, and nobody was complaining that the organization was a fallen shame.

Macarthur

12-30-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
It's nice to see that this once great organization is now being compared to Tampa, Jets and Denver...................
Bottom line is a team this talented should win. issues and bad coaching prevented this from happening. Jones has to correct both or this team cannot win. Philips is the first to go, then Garrett and then start cleaning house. Pac-man first then T.O..... Bring in some REAL QB's and open the competition in training camp next year.......

Where exactly are all these QBs you suggest bringing in?

It's easy to sit at your keyboard and pop off...it's a much different thing to make things happen in the real world.

Seriously, who would you bring in?

Also, you realize there at least 20 maybe closer to 24 teams in teh league that would trade QBs straight up with Dallas in a heartbeat.

skins4life

12-30-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by bobcat1
Keith7 before: http://virgil.azwestern.edu/~dag/lol/images/ZipLip.jpg

Keith7 now: http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Creatures_and_Cartoons/Smiles/talking.gif

:clap: :clap: :clap:

You're right there!! I didn't here anything when the owls scored 3 against my lowly 8-8 'Skins 3 weeks ago!!!

Keith7

12-30-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by skins4life
:clap: :clap: :clap:

You're right there!! I didn't here anything when the owls scored 3 against my lowly 8-8 'Skins 3 weeks ago!!!

lol you can enjoy watching us in the playoffs too.. maybe you and the other cowboys fans can get together and have a NFC East watching party.. I bet that would be fun!

skins4life

12-30-2008, 05:44 PM

Are you kidding me?? I wouldn't watch the owls if they were the only game in town!! I'd rather watch the LPGA than McNabb run the clock the way he does.

Pmoney

12-30-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Keith7
lol you can enjoy watching us in the playoffs too.. maybe you and the other cowboys fans can get together and have a NFC East watching party.. I bet that would be fun!
keith it doesnt matter what you say bc you are a fan of the iggles...before you talk crap about the cowboys look back at your beloved iggle's wonderful history...having hard time smiling arent you?

bobcat1

12-30-2008, 07:58 PM

I still sayhttp://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5212/eaglessuckaz3.gif Click=>The Proof (http://phillysucks.com/eaglessuck.html)

JasperDog94

12-30-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by bobcat1
I still sayhttp://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5212/eaglessuckaz3.gif Click=>The Proof (http://phillysucks.com/eaglessuck.html) :eek: :eek:

:spitlol: :spitlol: :spitlol: :spitlol:

bandera7

12-30-2008, 10:34 PM

This is a typical argument. I am an Eagles fan too and that actually made me laugh. But, here is the truth. This year is the year that matters. 44-6 anybody? :)

We dont look back at our past achievements. We like to glorify in what we can do now :D

Txbroadcaster

12-30-2008, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by bandera7

We dont look back at our past achievements. We like to glorify in what we can do now :D

well yea..cause ur last past achievment was like pre-WWII :D

bandera7

12-31-2008, 01:08 AM

hahaha. That actually made me laught out loud. Well, yes, I wish we had a more storied history. And I say we referring to all fans and myself, not accounting myself as part of the organization before I get hounded.
But we dont. And I am not gonna brag or worry about things that happened before I was born.

JR2004

12-31-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by skins4life
Are you kidding me?? I wouldn't watch the owls if they were the only game in town!! I'd rather watch the LPGA than McNabb run the clock the way he does.

Being a fellow Skins fan I agree with this!

g$$

12-31-2008, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Never said this team did not underachieve or that what I said excuses what happen

Just making the point that Dallas was not only team to collapse

Does that make you feel better? Dallas was not a playoff team with all the internal troubles, injuries, etc. It wil not change either until JJ backs off. Not going to happen.

DDBooger

12-31-2008, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by g$$
Does that make you feel better? Dallas was not a playoff team with all the internal troubles, injuries, etc. It wil not change either until JJ backs off. Not going to happen. I think it makes you feel better :)

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Macarthur
Where exactly are all these QBs you suggest bringing in?

It's easy to sit at your keyboard and pop off...it's a much different thing to make things happen in the real world.

Seriously, who would you bring in?

Also, you realize there at least 20 maybe closer to 24 teams in teh league that would trade QBs straight up with Dallas in a heartbeat.

If you include the fumbles that Romo has had over the last 21/2 seasons he would be one of worst rated QB's in the league. All those "20 Teams" that you claim would trade straight up for Romo are looking at his performance on the MOST TALENTED team in the league. I think at least half the starting QB's in the NFL would perform better on this team than Romo did. The 10-10 record that the Cowboys have had in the last 20 games is a huge accomplishment if you consider how Romo has played in those games..................... I don't care if you are the best QB in the world if you average 2 turnovers a game your team cannot consistently overcome that. Even a team as talented as the Cowboys. There are other problems but the QB play has to be addressed or this team will never win consistently...........

Macarthur

12-31-2008, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
If you include the fumbles that Romo has had over the last 21/2 seasons he would be one of worst rated QB's in the league. All those "20 Teams" that you claim would trade straight up for Romo are looking at his performance on the MOST TALENTED team in the league. I think at least half the starting QB's in the NFL would perform better on this team than Romo did. The 10-10 record that the Cowboys have had in the last 20 games is a huge accomplishment if you consider how Romo has played in those games..................... I don't care if you are the best QB in the world if you average 2 turnovers a game your team cannot consistently overcome that. Even a team as talented as the Cowboys. There are other problems but the QB play has to be addressed or this team will never win consistently...........

That comment of as many as 24 teams in the league trading straight up for him came from Rick Gosslin on the Ticket yesterday. That's not me. Gosslin is one of the most respected NFL writers in the nation.

I think you're taking his play and putting it into the wrong context. Sure, if your QB turns the ball over twice you probably lose, but if he also throws 4 TD passes, he puts you in position to win. Romo's career TD & INT ration is very very good. You're looking at a couple of bad games (Pitt, Philly, etc.) and using those to typify his game. The reality is that he's had very few of those. Granted, he's had them at critical times and to take the next step he's got to change that. But I don't think you're looking at his entire body of work in the proper context.

crzyjournalist03

12-31-2008, 10:30 AM

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
umm...every team goes through struggles...the Cowboys would have killed to have been compared with Denver in the late 90s or Tampa earlier this decade. A few losing years doesn't deface an organization. Heck, the New York Yankees stunk it up for almost 20 years straight until 1996, and nobody was complaining that the organization was a fallen shame.

You make my point for me. The Cowboys have sunk so low that you claim they would have "Killed" to be compared to those other teams. It wasn't true but the down turn of this organization at the hands of JJ has basically erased most of the public opinion of this team. Even in the 1-15 season for the Cowboys most Cowboy fans would not have "Killed" or even desired to be compared to the superbowl winner from that season. Just an example of how things have changed!
And the Yankees comparison is still laughable.............. If the Yankees had a salary cap they would be less successful than the Jets...............

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Macarthur
That comment of as many as 24 teams in the league trading straight up for him came from Rick Gosslin on the Ticket yesterday. That's not me. Gosslin is one of the most respected NFL writers in the nation.

I think you're taking his play and putting it into the wrong context. Sure, if your QB turns the ball over twice you probably lose, but if he also throws 4 TD passes, he puts you in position to win. Romo's career TD & INT ration is very very good. You're looking at a couple of bad games (Pitt, Philly, etc.) and using those to typify his game. The reality is that he's had very few of those. Granted, he's had them at critical times and to take the next step he's got to change that. But I don't think you're looking at his entire body of work in the proper context.

No! I think you and most other people aren't looking at his entire body of work. His QB rating is in the top of the league but that does not take into account his fumbles and the way he throws those INTs. He is consistently a momentum killer for his team. That's what I meant by if they were included he would not have near the QB rating. And if you consider that the GOOD things he does is being done on the most talent team in the league you have to understand that he would not do near those things on a lesser team. Romo has gotten a pass by most of the media(locally and nationally). But he has shown that he really can't read defenses, doesn't have a strong leadership ability and will make very, very bad decisions at the most harmful times for his team.........Other than that he produces like any other average QB would....................We have seen his upside. Measure that against his down side and you get a Superbowl caliber team that goes 9-7.

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And if you consider that the GOOD things he does is being done on the most talent team in the league you have to understand that he would not do near those things on a lesser team.

That is not a legit argument..you can say the same about any QB on a talented team

who made the SF offense of the 80's go?

Montana at QB..or his talented weapons at almost every position?

How good was Aikman? Would he have been as good without a top WR, RB and TE?

You say he produced like any average QB..well his stats are not average

You say he cannot read defenses, well that is one of those we can all say he can or cannot, but we really dont know because we dont know what he is being told to read on certain plays or the scheme of the offense and what his read points are

Your last line makes it sound like Romo is the whole reason they went 9-7 when I dont know how anyone can say Romo is the sole reason

8-5 when he was healthy and in line-up 1-2 without him and one of those was agianst St Louis, which is basically the loss that kept Dallas out of play-offs

Does he need to improve alot of things, yes he does

but the offense as a whole has to

better OL play, better scheme, better WR route running

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 11:12 AM

Just to clear up some of the confusion about Romo and his fake numbers. Romo was given a HUGE contract because of his ability to get out of trouble and make things happen with his legs as well as his arm. Football Outsiders.com ranks the QB's based on all statisitics and compares the QB's performances based on the quality of opponent. Much like a Stregnth of Schedule for High school teams.
As a passer:

1. Brees
2. Manning
3. Warner
4. Rivers
5. Cutler
6. Ryan
7. Rennington
8. McNabb
9. Manning
10. Rodgers
11. Romo

As a runing QB Romo is ranked #25 in the league.

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Just to clear up some of the confusion about Romo and his fake numbers. Romo was given a HUGE contract because of his ability to get out of trouble and make things happen with his legs as well as his arm. Football Outsiders.com ranks the QB's based on all statisitics and compares the QB's performances based on the quality of opponent. Much like a Stregnth of Schedule for High school teams.
As a passer:

1. Brees
2. Manning
3. Warner
4. Rivers
5. Cutler
6. Ryan
7. Rennington
8. McNabb
9. Manning
10. Rodgers
11. Romo

As a runing QB Romo is ranked #25 in the league.

I dont think anyone ever called Romo a "running" QB He is a scrambler

That is a big difference A runner breaks out of the pocket and takes off

A scrambler moves out of a pocket and still looks for a target down field

The SF game when he avoids the rush and moves left and finds TO for 75 yards...That is the type of get out of problems type of plays Romo excels at

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
That is not a legit argument..you can say the same about any QB on a talented team

who made the SF offense of the 80's go?

Montana at QB..or his talented weapons at almost every position?

How good was Aikman? Would he have been as good without a top WR, RB and TE?

You say he produced like any average QB..well his stats are not average

You say he cannot read defenses, well that is one of those we can all say he can or cannot, but we really dont know because we dont know what he is being told to read on certain plays or the scheme of the offense and what his read points are

Your last line makes it sound like Romo is the whole reason they went 9-7 when I dont know how anyone can say Romo is the sole reason

8-5 when he was healthy and in line-up 1-2 without him and one of those was agianst St Louis, which is basically the loss that kept Dallas out of play-offs

Does he need to improve alot of things, yes he does

but the offense as a whole has to

better OL play, better scheme, better WR route running

Romo is not close to the Aikmans or Steve Youngs of the world. Perhaps someday but right now not a chance. Romo is the benificiary of having Brad Johnson as the backup. Johnson performed so badly that Romo was made to look like a Unitas on the field. But again if you want to bring up records you have to look at Romo's record in the playoffs (or even December). Look at the Cowboys record with Romo as the QB in the last 20 games. That would be 10-10. Romo's Cowboys are .500 since going 11-1 after Parcels left. And much of it is the result of Romo not being held accountable for his ridiculous decisions. Parcels got in Romo's arse for those mistakes. Philips just makes excuses and that is what Romo does...............

"If you win, then OK! If you lose, then Ok too!"
"I've had worst things happen to me than losing a sporting event"
This is the Romo attitude about winning.... Good luck overcoming this guy...

Macarthur

12-31-2008, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
[B]No! I think you and most other people aren't looking at his entire body of work. His QB rating is in the top of the league but that does not take into account his fumbles and the way he throws those INTs. He is consistently a momentum killer for his team.

So a guy that over the last 3 years is like 27-13 with like 35 more TD passes than INTs, is not a body of work?

There's no question that he threw some critical INTs in a couple of critical games this year, but to say as a whole, he kills momentum is complete insanity. Romo is the only reason this team is where they are. This team was not a contender when Parcells' thrust him in the lineup. Since that point, they have been in the playoffs and this year had a chance to be in.

That's what I meant by if they were included he would not have near the QB rating. And if you consider that the GOOD things he does is being done on the most talent team in the league you have to understand that he would not do near those things on a lesser team.

As the previous post said, that's a bogus argument. Look at all QBs that are putting up some numbers and they have weapons to go to. The two go hand in hand.

Romo has gotten a pass by most of the media(locally and nationally).

That's flat out not true, especially from a national standpoint.

But he has shown that he really can't read defenses, doesn't have a strong leadership ability and will make very, very bad decisions at the most harmful times for his team.........Other than that he produces like any other average QB would....................We have seen his upside. Measure that against his down side and you get a Superbowl caliber team that goes 9-7.

Again, as the previous post said, we really can't tell from how we watch a game on TV if all of these decision were poor. Certainly, he made some bad decisions. He also has two WRs that are poor route runners. He also had much more pressure on him this year due to OL issues. Any QB that gets consistent pressure is going to be forced into errors. Remember what NY did to Brady last year? Does that make Brady a poor decision maker?

It reminds me of a LOL moment during one of the games. The announcers were talking about how Romo will make errors if you get pressure on him and how the other team was telling them that in the pre-game interviews. Well, Jesus! That's a revelation! That's an example of the type of "analysis" you get with much of these telecasts.

Just to clear up some of the confusion about Romo and his fake numbers. Romo was given a HUGE contract because of his ability to get out of trouble and make things happen with his legs as well as his arm. Football Outsiders.com ranks the QB's based on all statisitics and compares the QB's performances based on the quality of opponent. Much like a Stregnth of Schedule for High school teams.
As a passer:

1. Brees
2. Manning
3. Warner
4. Rivers
5. Cutler
6. Ryan
7. Rennington
8. McNabb
9. Manning
10. Rodgers
11. Romo

So really what is your point with this? You do realize that these are the top QBs in the league?

I think you could argue that Cutler regressed a bit this year. Ryan was good, but lets see what he does next year before we annoint him a top 6 QB. I'll take Romo over Pennington any day of the week and twice on Sundays; same with Rogers. That puts Romo somewhere in the 5-10 range of QBs. I think most would say that's the range he's in. So what's your point?

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I dont think anyone ever called Romo a "running" QB He is a scrambler

That is a big difference A runner breaks out of the pocket and takes off

A scrambler moves out of a pocket and still looks for a target down field

The SF game when he avoids the rush and moves left and finds TO for 75 yards...That is the type of get out of problems type of plays Romo excels at

Granted he has made a few great plays like the ones you mentioned. So let's pay the man 10.7 mil and year to give us 4 or 5 of those plays every season........ Great! But then let's take away money for every one of the mind numbing, stupid throws into triple coverage or the fumbles because he can't feel the pressure or holds the ball for 5 seconds and then has it swatted out of his hands. Or how about the several times he simply dropped the ball with nobody even close to him? One time in the endzone which gave the other team a touchdown. Let's deduct from his paycheck for all the times T.O. or Crayton is running wide open and he forces a throw into triple coverage on Witten. Romo would end up owing money to the Cowboys.......

It's a great conversation but I have to go to work. Unfortunately I don't get paid like Romo. (Make a lot for doing very little)

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 11:45 AM

The main thing I honestly think has hurt Romo more than anything is his confidence

I think at some point this year he stopped enjoying playing the game. For a player who feeds off of his own confidence and love to play that is vital

He talked so much of being more of a mechanical passer ala Tom Brady( even said he watched a ton of film on Brady) hurt Romo

He improvises, it will lead to good things and it will lead to bad things, but when he has no confidence it truly kills his game

Yes he needs to improve in December and in play-off games(even though his play was not what lost them the Giants game)

But right now his career looks alot like Peyton Manning, pretty stats but cant win the big one...All it will take is that one game, that one drive and perception will flip

I think this off season first and foremost Romo has to rediscover his passion and confidence.

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Macarthur
[B]So a guy that over the last 3 years is like 27-13 with like 35 more TD passes than INTs, is not a body of work?

When Romo was 12-1, I was satisfied with his mistakes. Since then he has gone 10-10 so the mistakes cannot be tolerated.

"As the previous post said, that's a bogus argument. Look at all QBs that are putting up some numbers and they have weapons to go to. The two go hand in hand."

Does the QB make the weapons or does the weapons make the QB????? Since T.O.'s numbers are below his career averages since he has played with Romo we have to assume the quality of the QB is less. And Williams numbers were non-existant with Romo at QB. Nobody doubts the quality of that receiver. The bad route running is subjective. Are they just now starting to run bad routes or have they always run bad routes and other QB's have been able to overcome it???????

"Again, as the previous post said, we really can't tell from how we watch a game on TV if all of these decision were poor. Certainly, he made some bad decisions. He also has two WRs that are poor route runners. He also had much more pressure on him this year due to OL issues. Any QB that gets consistent pressure is going to be forced into errors. Remember what NY did to Brady last year? Does that make Brady a poor decision maker?"

So Romo was the only QB in the league that got pressure? It's part of the job. The decisions have to be better while that pressure is going on.

"It reminds me of a LOL moment during one of the games. The announcers were talking about how Romo will make errors if you get pressure on him and how the other team was telling them that in the pre-game interviews. Well, Jesus! That's a revelation! That's an example of the type of "analysis" you get with much of these telecasts."

I think the point that was being made here was that pressure causes Romo to make ERRORS. Most good QB's can't execute because of the pressure but they are able to control their mistakes. Romo can't....................

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
[BQB make the weapons or does the weapons make the QB????? Since T.O.'s numbers are below his career averages since he has played with Romo we have to assume the quality of the QB is less. And Williams numbers were non-existant with Romo at QB. Nobody doubts the quality of that receiver. The bad route running is subjective. Are they just now starting to run bad routes or have they always run bad routes and other QB's have been able to overcome it???????

[/B]

uhh TO's number last year with Romo playing a full season with him was some of the best in his career( that is only season they played together full season)

Cant really say anything about Roy Williams YET..I dont think people realize how hurt his foot is and it does take time for a QB-WR combo to find the same page

Macarthur

12-31-2008, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
When Romo was 12-1, I was satisfied with his mistakes. Since then he has gone 10-10 so the mistakes cannot be tolerated.

There's no question he didn't play as well to end this season, but I think there are a lot more circumstances involved than just Romo makes poor decisions.

Does the QB make the weapons or does the weapons make the QB????? Since T.O.'s numbers are below his career averages since he has played with Romo we have to assume the quality of the QB is less. And Williams numbers were non-existant with Romo at QB. Nobody doubts the quality of that receiver.

As previous poster said, you're wrong on TO's numbers. TO had a career year last year. Is it a coincidence that TO's numbers were down this year when Romo was hurt and the OL did not play at the same level?

The bad route running is subjective. Are they just now starting to run bad routes or have they always run bad routes and other QB's have been able to overcome it???????

Maybe it's subjective, but Aikman has made more than one comment about the route running. I think I'll take his "subjective" opinion.

TO has never been known as a precision route runner, neither has RW.

So Romo was the only QB in the league that got pressure? It's part of the job. The decisions have to be better while that pressure is going on.

I never said he was, but there is a direct correlation to the amount of pressure QBs get and mistakes. It's a fact. Did you not see the superbowl last year; even God's gift to football, Tom Brady, had a subpar game.

I think the point that was being made here was that pressure causes Romo to make ERRORS. Most good QB's can't execute because of the pressure but they are able to control their mistakes. Romo can't....................

Every QB makes mistakes when pressured. You act as if Romo is the only QB that throws INTs.

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 01:57 PM

I started out really liking Romo but realized early on that he was playing way over his head with a very talented team. The latter part of last year and this whole season I think we see the REAL Tony Romo. I could stand by him and wait to see if he developes as a QB because he has the tools but I can't stand his attitude. He is over-confident for no reason. He is arrogant and believes he has a greater grasp of the NFL than people who have followed it for 50 years. A little humility and self recrimmination(if that's a word) would go miles for his public image. He needs to stop telling the world that the NFL isn't the only thing in his life. He really needs to quit informing us that a NFL loss isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to him. Perhaps if he also lost his paycheck then the loss to Philly might be a little bigger issue to him. Just my opinion.

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 01:59 PM

I hope everyone has heard this latest news:

Tony Romo attempted suicide this morning. He tried to shoot himself but the bullet was intercepted and run back for a TD!!!!

Sorry! That was sent to me by a crazy friend of mine......

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I started out really liking Romo but realized early on that he was playing way over his head with a very talented team. The latter part of last year and this whole season I think we see the REAL Tony Romo. I could stand by him and wait to see if he developes as a QB because he has the tools but I can't stand his attitude. He is over-confident for no reason. He is arrogant and believes he has a greater grasp of the NFL than people who have followed it for 50 years. A little humility and self recrimmination(if that's a word) would go miles for his public image. He needs to stop telling the world that the NFL isn't the only thing in his life. He really needs to quit informing us that a NFL loss isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to him. Perhaps if he also lost his paycheck then the loss to Philly might be a little bigger issue to him. Just my opinion.

I cant say he is arrogant..or not arrogant, I have never met him..but I want my QB ALWAYS over confident..takes a man who believes in himself to play that postion, ESPECIALLY as a Dallas Cowboy

and as I said before..I have no problem with someone who keeps it in perspective, just because he says a NFL loss is not worst thing does not mean he likes to lose or even that he does not care

DDBooger

12-31-2008, 02:12 PM

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by DDBooger
it's the truth, i can think of far worse things than losing an NFL game, like losing a parent, child or any relative. Not being able to watch Spongebob.

We all know these things are worst. Everyone has had bad things happen to them that might make a football game loss pale by comparison. We don't need Tony Romo giving us life lessons. You keep talking about perspective. Here is proper perspective: If you or I performed at our job like Romo did on Sunday we would not have a job today. Because it's a "Game" he gets a pass by some of us. Because he has the ability to make a great play every other game or so he is allowed to continuously make bonehead plays. A good coach like Parcels or Jimmy Johnson would be knee deep in his *** for those decisions. Perhaps it will take a coach like that to reign in his wild tendencies............
I will cheer for them again next year and most likely get my Cowboy feelings hurt. They are a bowl of alphabet soup that is made up of all I's. Still tastes good but will never spell anything...

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
We all know these things are worst. Everyone has had bad things happen to them that might make a football game loss pale by comparison. We don't need Tony Romo giving us life lessons. You keep talking about perspective. Here is proper perspective: If you or I performed at our job like Romo did on Sunday we would not have a job today. Because it's a "Game" he gets a pass by some of us. Because he has the ability to make a great play every other game or so he is allowed to continuously make bonehead plays. A good coach like Parcels or Jimmy Johnson would be knee deep in his *** for those decisions. Perhaps it will take a coach like that to reign in his wild tendencies............
I will cheer for them again next year and most likely get my Cowboy feelings hurt. They are a bowl of alphabet soup that is made up of all I's. Still tastes good but will never spell anything...

You keep saying Romo makes a great play "every other game"..you act like he is a 22 TD 22 INT guy..his career TD is 81 career Int is 46..almost the perfect 2-1 ratio you want from a QB

he fumbles..yes..but ya know what..he has not led the league yet in QB fumbles..other greats such as Big Ben, and Eli Manning are above him(among others)

again..he is not perfect..but IMO he is not as bad as I think the perception has become

DDBooger

12-31-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
We all know these things are worst. Everyone has had bad things happen to them that might make a football game loss pale by comparison. We don't need Tony Romo giving us life lessons. You keep talking about perspective. Here is proper perspective: If you or I performed at our job like Romo did on Sunday we would not have a job today. Because it's a "Game" he gets a pass by some of us. Because he has the ability to make a great play every other game or so he is allowed to continuously make bonehead plays. A good coach like Parcels or Jimmy Johnson would be knee deep in his *** for those decisions. Perhaps it will take a coach like that to reign in his wild tendencies............
I will cheer for them again next year and most likely get my Cowboy feelings hurt. They are a bowl of alphabet soup that is made up of all I's. Still tastes good but will never spell anything... step back and realize I wasn't all that serious! lol except for the spongebob part :(

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I cant say he is arrogant..or not arrogant, I have never met him..but I want my QB ALWAYS over confident..takes a man who believes in himself to play that postion, ESPECIALLY as a Dallas Cowboy

and as I said before..I have no problem with someone who keeps it in perspective, just because he says a NFL loss is not worst thing does not mean he likes to lose or even that he does not care

Confidence without reason is Arrogance. Over-Confidence without reason is stupidity. If you accept mediocrecy as "Not the worst thing to happen to me" then there is no urgency to correct the reasons for the mediocrity. Romo went to Mexico with Simpson the week before the playoffs and then proceeded to lay an egg. Never once did he acknowledge that the trip to Mexico might not have been the best choice. Talk all the cliche's you want but based on how Romo played he needed to be at Valley Ranch watching film instead of rolling in the sand with my future wife.....................But that's just my opinion.

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Confidence without reason is Arrogance. Over-Confidence without reason is stupidity. If you accept mediocrecy as "Not the worst thing to happen to me" then there is no urgency to correct the reasons for the mediocrity. Romo went to Mexico with Simpson the week before the playoffs and then proceeded to lay an egg. Never once did he acknowledge that the trip to Mexico might not have been the best choice. Talk all the cliche's you want but based on how Romo played he needed to be at Valley Ranch watching film instead of rolling in the sand with my future wife.....................But that's just my opinion.

What Romo says to the media does not mean that he accepts anything

I am so tired of the he went to Mexico...When teams have byes players will travel..period..going to Mexico did not lose the game.

Sorry but Tony Romo did not lay an egg agianst NYG last year in the play-offs...In fact he was having a nice day until the OL became a swinging door and they abandoned the running game

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You keep saying Romo makes a great play "every other game"..you act like he is a 22 TD 22 INT guy..his career TD is 81 career Int is 46..almost the perfect 2-1 ratio you want from a QB

he fumbles..yes..but ya know what..he has not led the league yet in QB fumbles..other greats such as Big Ben, and Eli Manning are above him(among others)

again..he is not perfect..but IMO he is not as bad as I think the perception has become

I think your numbers are off. I read that in his 37 regular season games he has something like 59 turnovers total. That is the worst in the NFL in 12 years.(add in playoff games and it gets worst).
But you keep giving him credit for the first 12 games where he actually EARNED his huge contract. No arguements there. But since then he is not a very good QB..... But I also remember he use to apoligize for disappointing his fans. Now he says "if they win OK and if they don't OK!!!!!!" When the media asked about his(and the teams) poor performance against Cincy in a win he treated them(us) all like idiots for questioning a win. He was indignate as hell becuase after all it was "WIN"!!!! Looks like someone knew what was coming and Romo wasn't that someone.

Txbroadcaster

12-31-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think your numbers are off. I read that in his 37 regular season games he has something like 59 turnovers total. That is the worst in the NFL in 12 years.(add in playoff games and it gets worst).
.

my numbers are not off

from yahoo NFL stats

2008

Romo is second in fumbles behind Big Ben..both are tied for 7 lost

2007
Romo finished behind the likes of Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers,Jay VCutler and Kurt Warner( among a few more)..his 9 fumbles were TIED with Drew Brees, McNabb BIG BEN(once again)

in 06
again WAY behind likes of Eli Manning GASP TOM BRADY GASP Carson Palmer..Romo had 8 fumbles

NOW

INTs
08
Again behind Big Ben..Romo had 13..Ben 14 WAY behind Farve, Cutler also threw more

07
finished behind Eli...wait..so Eli had MORE fumbles AND ints than Romo last year..yet they woin the SB..maybe QBs cannot win it themselves after all

All these stats are at yahoo

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=NFL&year=season_2008&timeframe=ToDate&sort=3&old_category=Passing

So I have no clue about the most TOs in 12 years..but I think they mean in that amount of games..a TO-to-Games played

but

here is the thing

in those 37 games

how many TDs has he thrown for?

crzyjournalist03

12-31-2008, 04:50 PM

one issue with quarterback fumbles is that they can get skewed pretty easily...Remember the safety against the Giants? That goes as a fumble against Romo, depsite the fact that Gurode snapped the ball before he should have. Bad laterals, botched handoffs, bad snaps, etc. all count as fumbles for a QB. While fumbles definitely are an issue for Romo, it's not like he's the first very good QB in the NFL to have some fumbling issues.

Farmersfan

12-31-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
What Romo says to the media does not mean that he accepts anything

I am so tired of the he went to Mexico...When teams have byes players will travel..period..going to Mexico did not lose the game.

Sorry but Tony Romo did not lay an egg agianst NYG last year in the play-offs...In fact he was having a nice day until the OL became a swinging door and they abandoned the running game

OK, I found the numbers: Here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/careerstats?id=ROM787981

Tony Romo's stats and ratings for 2008 season:

26-TD, 14-Ints, 13 fumbles, 3448 yards, 91.6 rating.
include the fumbles in the rating and he would be rated in the 60's.

Rating in 9 wins=104.8
Rating in 7 losses=75.4

Career numbers:

45 games.
81 TD's
46 ints
32 fumbles- fumbles lost 12.

58 turnovers in 45 games. Not quit 2 per game but close.
Sacked 65 times.
He also rushed for over 100 yards in the first two season but rushed for only 41 this season.

crzyjournalist03

12-31-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
OK, I found the numbers: Here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/careerstats?id=ROM787981

Tony Romo's stats and ratings for 2008 season:

26-TD, 14-Ints, 13 fumbles, 3448 yards, 91.6 rating.
include the fumbles in the rating and he would be rated in the 60's.

Rating in 9 wins=104.8
Rating in 7 losses=75.4

Career numbers:

45 games.
81 TD's
46 ints
32 fumbles- fumbles lost 12.

58 turnovers in 45 games. Not quit 2 per game but close.
Sacked 65 times.
He also rushed for over 100 yards in the first two season but rushed for only 41 this season.

58 in 45 is actually 1.29 a game for his career...so he only has two turnovers on average less than once every three games.

Secondly, he was actually 8-5 as a starter this year. Don't give him any credit for Tampa Bay, but don't take anything away from him for St. Louis or the Giants, so I don't think it's fair to keep calling him 9-7 this year. May seem like semantics, but you're talking a winning percentage of 61.5% this year as opposed to barely over 50%.