BCS may not be the problem

[coach]

many ppl are complaing that the bcs shouldnt decide who gets in the big 21 title game but i disagree. If all three teams beat each other then how can u decide who is best? duh whoever is ranked higher. I know texas beat ou but what really needs to be fixed is the conference championships. All conferences needs to have one and instead of having the south play the north and east play the west just have the two best teams play each other. so for instance texas would be playing ou, usc would be playing oregon state, and florida would be playing bama, peen state would be playing tosu.....that would fix a lot of the problem

[WylieBulldog92]

Also the reason for this is is a better shot at a NC I think.

[sinton66]

BCS is the problem. Human OPINION should not decide ANY championship, period.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by sinton66
BCS is the problem. Human OPINION should not decide ANY championship, period.
Yep, the computers are not part of the problem. People always cried about how they would rank teams above other teams with the same record they beat, but the humans are doing it to now so...

It should be all computers with each one factoring something more of each aspect of a win including margain of victory up to a certain point and HFA. Computers remember the entire season, humans remember last week.

[westcoast54]

First of all, I am an OU fan and I'm thrilled that they are in the Big XII Championship game. However, as much as I hate to say it Mack Brown made a very valid point last night. Of the three, Tech is ranked the lowest, so they are out. Now, you should go back to head-to-head, and Texas is in.
I do think it would be awsome if OU and Texas could meet in the BCS Title Game. I know that more than likely won't happen. But there is always that big question of...What if?????

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by westcoast54
First of all, I am an OU fan and I'm thrilled that they are in the Big XII Championship game. However, as much as I hate to say it Mack Brown made a very valid point last night. Of the three, Tech is ranked the lowest, so they are out. Now, you should go back to head-to-head, and Texas is in.
I do think it would be awsome if OU and Texas could meet in the BCS Title Game. I know that more than likely won't happen. But there is always that big question of...What if?????
I think that's how the SEC and ACC do it

[sinton66]

The Big 12 does it this way because they believe it will give whoever survives the best shot at a National Championship game. I understand why, but I don't like it.

[RMAC]

Originally posted by westcoast54
First of all, I am an OU fan and I'm thrilled that they are in the Big XII Championship game. However, as much as I hate to say it Mack Brown made a very valid point last night. Of the three, Tech is ranked the lowest, so they are out. Now, you should go back to head-to-head, and Texas is in.
I do think it would be awsome if OU and Texas could meet in the BCS Title Game. I know that more than likely won't happen. But there is always that big question of...What if?????

But if we all hate the polls so much, then you can't use them to make it easier for a particular team to get it. I know this was a big year for the team I support, and I'm not throwing this idea out there to say we got in, because I don't think we're better than OU, but because I don't care enough about any opinion on this message board to do the math; but how about just do point differentials? Not between the 3 teams and their games against each other, but throughout all 8 CONFERENCE games, that way nobody can cry about playing a DI-AA school. Heck, even better, only against common opponents. That would be a pretty good way to decide, I think. That's 5 games, roughly half the season, to take points from. I don't see how that wouldn't be fair. You can say teams will have bad games, but if you just win when you're supposed to, none of this would even matter. You can say team A had a bad game against B, but B had a bad game against team C, and team C had a bad game against A, that's why there's another 2 games to consider, when only 1 of the 3 said teams would be involved.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by RMAC
But if we all hate the polls so much, then you can't use them to make it easier for a particular team to get it. I know this was a big year for the team I support, and I'm not throwing this idea out there to say we got in, because I don't think we're better than OU, but because I don't care enough about any opinion on this message board to do the math; but how about just do point differentials? Not between the 3 teams and their games against each other, but throughout all 8 CONFERENCE games, that way nobody can cry about playing a DI-AA school. Heck, even better, only against common opponents. That would be a pretty good way to decide, I think. That's 5 games, roughly half the season, to take points from. I don't see how that wouldn't be fair. You can say teams will have bad games, but if you just win when you're supposed to, none of this would even matter. You can say team A had a bad game against B, but B had a bad game against team C, and team C had a bad game against A, that's why there's another 2 games to consider, when only 1 of the 3 said teams would be involved. First off you might as well just throw sportsmanship to the wind with that theory. You would have teams playing their starters the whole game and running it up on everyone because they would know that it might come in handy. If a team wins by 50 they have an advantage over a team that won by 40 which doesnt make any sense. Secondly, teams wouldn't have the same common opponents unless you just did big 12 south teams because OU and Tech played Nebraska and Texas didn't. Texas played Colorado and neither OU nor Tech did. I really dont think their is a good answer to this at this point.

[RMAC]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
First off you might as well just throw sportsmanship to the wind with that theory. You would have teams playing their starters the whole game and running it up on everyone because they would know that it might come in handy. If a team wins by 50 they have an advantage over a team that won by 40 which doesnt make any sense. Secondly, teams wouldn't have the same common opponents unless you just did big 12 south teams because OU and Tech played Nebraska and Texas didn't. Texas played Colorado and neither OU nor Tech did. I really dont think their is a good answer to this at this point.

Yeah, but like I said, there's 5 common opponents between 3 said schools in the South. Each school played the other 5 teams in the South. You think coaches would run up the score and risk hurting a star player because as you said, it 'might' come in handy? No, I don't think so. As I've stated before, win your games and none of this matters.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by RMAC
Yeah, but like I said, there's 5 common opponents between 3 said schools in the South. Each school played the other 5 teams in the South. You think coaches would run up the score and risk hurting a star player because as you said, it 'might' come in handy? No, I don't think so. As I've stated before, win your games and none of this matters. You think if this is the tie breaker Texas wouldnt run it up on A&m and Tech wouldnt of run it up on Baylorif they had the chance this week knowing the situation?

[RMAC]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
You think if this is the tie breaker Texas wouldnt run it up on A&m and Tech wouldnt of run it up on Baylorif they had the chance this week knowing the situation?

Sure. Tech is going to run up the score either way as far as I can tell. As for Texas, Coach Brown has shown that he'll do what he has to do to get his team into the playoffs, just as any other coach would. But it wouldn't be an every game thing like you said earlier. But the moral of this story is kids, win all your games, and you don't have to worry about who beat who to go to the show.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by RMAC
But the moral of this story is kids, win all your games, and you don't have to worry about who beat who to go to the show.

:doh: Dang! Why didnt the coaches and their teams think of this? This would have made everything so much simpler. Lets just throw them all out due to stupidity. If someone had only told them at the beginning of the season to win all their games, I'm sure at least one of them would have happily complied.:rolleyes:

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by RMAC
Sure. Tech is going to run up the score either way as far as I can tell. As for Texas, Coach Brown has shown that he'll do what he has to do to get his team into the playoffs, just as any other coach would. But it wouldn't be an every game thing like you said earlier. But the moral of this story is kids, win all your games, and you don't have to worry about who beat who to go to the show. I disagree say this year Texas gets left in the cold by that scenerio the next year you think they might play their starters for a little longer and run it up a little more than they normally would hoping that it doesnt happen again.

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by coach
many ppl are complaing that the bcs shouldnt decide who gets in the big 21 title game but i disagree. If all three teams beat each other then how can u decide who is best? duh whoever is ranked higher. I know texas beat ou but what really needs to be fixed is the conference championships. All conferences needs to have one and instead of having the south play the north and east play the west just have the two best teams play each other. so for instance texas would be playing ou, usc would be playing oregon state, and florida would be playing bama, peen state would be playing tosu.....that would fix a lot of the problem

Even in this system, you would still have a three way tie where they all beat each other. Someone is still left out!

[Keith7]

I liked the graduation rate idea that Leach proposed.. UT and OU would never sniff a championship game if the tiebreaker came down to that

[lange4]

Cap the points at 17 or 21 then no need to keep running up score

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Keith7
I liked the graduation rate idea that Leach proposed.. UT and OU would never sniff a championship game if the tiebreaker came down to that

Or else top academic honors. Texas would have won out easily this year.

[forum_guy]

in my opinion the system did the right thing...i think you have to favor in the SOS and who plays who...OU has crushed 4 of the nations top 14 teams and is about to crush the 20th ranked team...look at their non conference record...they played 2 ranked opponents in cincinnati and tcu and crushed them...they have to get credit for scheduling those games and accounting for the SOS is the way to do it...after OU lays the law down on mizzou
-OU will have the only win over a ranked opponent on the road.
-OU will have beat more ranked opponents than UT or TT.
-OU will have played more ranked opponents than UT or TT.
you cant sit here and say OU doesnt deserve it, u just have to live with it

[Phil C]

45 - 35

:)

[forum_guy]

Originally posted by Phil C
45 - 35

:)

didnt u get the memo, this isnt a 2 way tie its a 3 way
:)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by forum_guy
didnt u get the memo, this isnt a 2 way tie its a 3 way
:) Then how come there are only two teams in the discussion?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by westcoast54
First of all, I am an OU fan and I'm thrilled that they are in the Big XII Championship game. However, as much as I hate to say it Mack Brown made a very valid point last night. Of the three, Tech is ranked the lowest, so they are out. Now, you should go back to head-to-head, and Texas is in.
I do think it would be awsome if OU and Texas could meet in the BCS Title Game. I know that more than likely won't happen. But there is always that big question of...What if?????

But you're still using those rankings to put Tech out of the picture. If they're applied to dismiss one, then they should be used all the way across the board, not just be subjective to a self-serving bias in the form of the head-to-head argument used to put Texas over OU just because they beat them even though they're ranked lower.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Then how come there are only two teams in the discussion?

because only one team's fans are whining

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Keith7
because only one team's fans are whining

Because Tech fans know that they lost there chance when they got stomped by OU.

BTW, you should know whining, you did it alot when UT got in over Cal.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Keith7
because only one team's fans are whining I'm sure OU would be quiet and accept it saying the better team deserved it. :rolleyes: Funny how people who hate the Horns are the ones defending OU. :thinking:
Texas loss to Tech-6pts
OU loss to Texas-10pts
Tech loss to OU-44pts<---what statisticians call an outlier.
BBDE has a point, but again, Tech's loss really stands out, leaving the discussion at Texas and OU. Had it been closer, im sure analysts and Tech fans would feel they belong in the convo!

[OldBison75]

Texas opponent won-lost recoed 82-56

Oklahoma opponent won-lost record 78-62


Seems that that indicates that Texas may have played the tougher schedule.

NUFF SAID---COMPUTERS ARE NO BETTER THAN THE DATA ENTERED BY HUMANS AND HUMANS MAKE MISTAKES!!!!!!!!

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by RMAC
You think coaches would run up the score and risk hurting a star player because as you said, it 'might' come in handy? No, I don't think so. As I've stated before, win your games and none of this matters.

Answer to your question - Uhmmm yes... they do already... Mack Brown is one of the most classiest coaches in the sport, but I guarantee you in the situation we just had this past week, if completely demolishing A&M by 50-60 points would have been impressive to voters and the computers, he woulda atLEAST aired it out with Chiles if not Colt... but lucky for A&M, a 50-60 beatdown by Texas wouldn't have been that much more impressive than a 20-point win...

--

Win your games and none of this happens is VERY true... and though they didn't win them all, they won the one that is supposed to matter the most... every year before this game you hear "The winner of this game gains an inside track to the confrence championship"... guess they'll never say that again...

And to just comment on this subject in general... I agree that the BCS is not totally to blame here... This confrence has the most retawded tie-breaker ever and it WILL be changed... you learn from you mistakes I guess... costly mistake here...

BUT, though the BCS is not the only criminal in this hosing, it's the biggest... it allowed a one-loss team to jump a one-loss team that won the head to head.... I understand OU lost earlier and Texas lost later, but when teams are this close together you gotta have something in the system that does not allow a jump... I mean it's not like UT had 2 losses and OU just 1...

Heard a good point today, forget who said it, may have been on PTI or Around the Horn... A lot of the time BCS appologists will use the "well these regular season games are just like the playoffs"... oh, I thought the winners advanced in the playoffs? can't use that one anymore, 45-35 is what they'll get in response...

Either way, Texas is going to the BCS game so that works, I guess...

Hook 'Em Tigers!!!

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by RMAC
\ But the moral of this story is kids, win all your games, and you don't have to worry about who beat who to go to the show.

tell 2004 Auburn that...I'm just sayin

anytime the question of BCS vs playoffs come up i think 2004 Auburn pretty much owns the argument

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by Phil C
45 - 35

:)

Graham Harrell to Michael Crabtree. Own it horns.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
Graham Harrell to Michael Crabtree. Own it horns. lmao, Bradford to everyone...nvm haha

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Phil C
45 - 35

:)
39-33 ;) :p

[handNthedirt]

I still can't get used to Midwestern Mustang...tomahawk chop! go
Indians! class of 1999.

[sinton66]

The object of the tie breaker is to make sure a Big 12 team gets a shot at the NC game. Unfortunately, this system doesn't guarantee the BEST Big 12 team goes. It does need some refining.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinton66
The object of the tie breaker is to make sure a Big 12 team gets a shot at the NC game. Unfortunately, this system doesn't guarantee the BEST Big 12 team goes. It does need some refining.

I thought the whole point was to let the best team go? Isn't that why the higher-ranked (and better by both human and computer polls) team in the form of OU is playing for the Big XII Championship and not Texas?

[handNthedirt]

ut fan is hilarious man.

[sinton66]

No, the whole point is to get A(any) Big 12 team to the NC. The three way tie breaker does not ensure the best team goes. That should be decided on the field. Human opinion should not enter the equation at all.

The SEC takes the lowest of the three (the one that got the worst beating), throws them out and reverts to the head to head on the remaining two. That sounds like a reasonable solution to me.

[Necks_Fan]

I think if TTU had lost to OU by a similar margin ( 7-10) points, then there would be a valid 3 way tie, but since TTU got Blown out, that pretty much invalidates them and then you just need to look at OU/UT game. UT wins.... so..... yea.


You can make the case that OU beat beat a good #14 OSU team on the road to strengthen their schedule..... well UT beat them when they were undefeated and #6 in the country... granted at home, but still.


If all the marbles comes down to OU/UT to see who gets in..... don't you think the head to head matchup would carry a bit of weight?

Cuz I do..... but I don;t make the rules. I just bitch about em.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I thought the whole point was to let the best team go? Isn't that why the higher-ranked (and better by both human and computer polls) team in the form of OU is playing for the Big XII Championship and not Texas? It's hard for me to believe anything you say when you say OU is the better team even though they got handled on a neutral field by Texas. JMO.

[jason]

nm

[jason]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I thought the whole point was to let the best team go? Isn't that why the higher-ranked (and better by both human and computer polls) team in the form of OU is playing for the Big XII Championship and not Texas? thats just it - they are not the better team, it was proven in october - 45-35...

if you take the tie breakers from any of the other bcs conferences, then texas would be in...ou got in on a technicality, not based on what happened on the field - anybody with any common sense understands this concept and anybody who says otherwise is a fool...

wouldnt expect you to see that through maroon shaded glasses though.....

[sinfan75]

ALL conference champions and thats IT. Champions go for the title and thats the only way it should be.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by sinfan75
ALL conference champions and thats IT. Champions go for the title and thats the only way it should be. Fine and dandy, but determining who gets in that conference championship is a FLAWED system.

[NastySlot]

all this complaining......i was wondering what are the order of tie-breakers used...cause to get to this point the bcs standings...there had to be other tie breakers that weren't met....anyone know?

[sinton66]

I think Oklahoma has a great team, I really do. Had they beat Texas I would have no problem saying they deserve to be there, but that's not what happened.

The ultimate solution is a playoff system just like every other team sport in the country has. In the meantime, Conference tiebreakers DO NOT need to be based on the screwy BCS system.
That's just stupidity, IMO. Polls don't mean jack!

[sinfan75]

Nope! Conferences with two divisions don't play teams from the other opposite division. Play one less game to take care of conference championship game and it works out right. PUT NOTRE DAME IN A CONFERENCE!!! PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

[sinton66]

Big 12 tie-breakers:
a.) If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative
b.)If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 7 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.


1.)The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
2.)The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
3.)The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of fi nish (4, 5 and 6)
4.)The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents;
5.)The highest ranked team in the fi rst Bowl Championship Series Poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative
6.)The team with the best overall winning percentage [excluding exempted games] shall be the representative
7.)The representative will be chosen by draw.

Notice that 1 thru 4 says records, not scores.

[sinfan75]

3 way tie in a division? Minus- plus in head to head match ups. OK would be top dog by virtue of blow-out of Tech.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinton66
I think Oklahoma has a great team, I really do. Had they beat Texas I would have no problem saying they deserve to be there, but that's not what happened.

The ultimate solution is a playoff system just like every other team sport in the country has. In the meantime, Conference tiebreakers DO NOT need to be based on the screwy BCS system.
That's just stupidity, IMO. Polls don't mean jack!


then what your saying is the tie breakers used by the other conference are wrong also...cause the acc and sec drop the lowest bcs ranked team and then go to head between the remaining two teams.


fact is tech may have been blown out by ou on the road late in the season...but if i remember right they did beat texas when the horns were number one in the nation......regardless of the blow out loss wouldn't they have an arguement they did beat texas when they were number one.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinton66
Big 12 tie-breakers:
a.) If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative
b.)If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 7 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.


1.)The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
2.)The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
3.)The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of fi nish (4, 5 and 6)
4.)The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents;
5.)The highest ranked team in the fi rst Bowl Championship Series Poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative
6.)The team with the best overall winning percentage [excluding exempted games] shall be the representative
7.)The representative will be chosen by draw.

Notice that 1 thru 4 says records, not scores.


thanks...guess we should be glad it didn't come down to the seventh step.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinfan75
3 way tie in a division? Minus- plus in head to head match ups. OK would be top dog by virtue of blow-out of Tech.

are saying a plus/negative points system should be put in place....if so i agree but there should be a cap on points....prevent running it up.

[Necks_Fan]

Exclude team with most - points. Then head to head winner.


If 2 teams are tied for 2nd and 3rd in + or - points, then the 1 that is ahead of those 2 should be the representative.:)

[sinfan75]

No cap! Final score. Let the dominos fall where they may.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by NastySlot
then what your saying is the tie breakers used by the other conference are wrong also...cause the acc and sec drop the lowest bcs ranked team and then go to head between the remaining two teams.


fact is tech may have been blown out by ou on the road late in the season...but if i remember right they did beat texas when the horns were number one in the nation......regardless of the blow out loss wouldn't they have an arguement they did beat texas when they were number one. No.


Blowout= loss of relevance.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinfan75
No cap! Final score. Let the dominos fall where they may.


could get ugly.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
No.


Blowout= loss of relevance.

only if your a texas fan.....but to tech fans they believe (and they're right) it was a big accomplishment to beat the number one team in nation..........remember the tie-breakers don't say anything about points scored..............it just adds more fuel to the fire of sooner fans.....that they are playing better ball now as opposed to earlier in the year.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
No.


Blowout= loss of relevance.

Yes. Not lowest ranked BCS team getting tossed, team with the worst beat-down of the three (head to head among those three) gets tossed. I'm saying BCS should have nothing what-so-ever to do with IN CONFERENCE. That needs to be settled on the field.

[NastySlot]

just thought of something.....texas fans were so happy win they beat ou...and they jumped to number one in the nation....what if they had only jumped to number 2....then lost to tech as the number 2 team....and ou beat the then number 2 ranked raiders.....texas would have probably had the needed points in the computer to stay ahead of ou and tech cause they were the only one to beat the number one ranked team.

[handNthedirt]

in football you're as good as you're last game. ou has won more consecutive games by much larger point differentials since the red river shootout...hell they almost covered the 76.5 point over/under on their own vs the team that beat ut....Big XII South is sending the best team with the best chance to win it all. go to bed horn fan...maybe next year....I heard colt is talking to nfl teams as to where he'd be projected to go in this years draft...should be interesting.

[sinfan75]

Hell as many bowls they have now the NCAA could run a play-off sytem that would make all money mongers happy.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by sinfan75
Hell as many bowls they have now the NCAA could run a play-off sytem that would make all money mongers happy.

I agree. All the bowls could be involved and just rotate through them for the games. That way no bowl overshadows any other and sooner or later all of them would get a NC.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
in football you're as good as you're last game. ou has won more consecutive games by much larger point differentials since the red river shootout...hell they almost covered the 76.5 point over/under on their own vs the team that beat ut....Big XII South is sending the best team with the best chance to win it all. go to bed horn fan...maybe next year....I heard colt is talking to nfl teams as to where he'd be projected to go in this years draft...should be interesting.

No, they haven't. 61 to 41 is only 20 points. 49 to 9 is 40 points. That was the last game.......

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinfan75
Hell as many bowls they have now the NCAA could run a play-off sytem that would make all money mongers happy.

i always thought that you could have both a playoff and the bowls......top 8 or 16 teams make the playoffs...games played at higher ranked teams stadium.........the other teams that don't make it could go to the bowl games......college coaches love bowls cause of the extra practice time they get with younger players...players are rewarded for years of hard work by trips to bowls........only catch is i would only allow conference champions in the playoffs....and conference championshipships could be round one...those conferences with no title game have to matchup with others with no title game ex: pac10 v. mwc, big 10 v. big east. would force conferences to expand and norte dame would have to join a conference.

[handNthedirt]

keep the nc game rotatin amongst the BCS bowls...that's where all the money is and money is why we're having this conversation about bad the BCS set up is.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by NastySlot
could get ugly. At least it'd be based on head -to-head competition. Why should the best level of football be based on computers and dumbass reporters.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinfan75
At least it'd be based on head -to-head competition. Why should the best level of football be based on computers and dumbass reporters.

i was talking about no cap....leads to running it up.

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by Nastyt
...and norte dame would have to join a conference.

why notre dame being mentioned in this conversation...again? they've fallen off man....awful....who cares? horns should schedule them between sam houston and rice.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by NastySlot
i always thought that you could have both a playoff and the bowls......top 8 or 16 teams make the playoffs...games played at higher ranked teams stadium.........the other teams that don't make it could go to the bowl games......college coaches love bowls cause of the extra practice time they get with younger players...players are rewarded for years of hard work by trips to bowls........only catch is i would only allow conference champions in the playoffs....and conference championshipships could be round one...those conferences with no title game have to matchup with others with no title game ex: pac10 v. mwc, big 10 v. big east. would force conferences to expand and norte dame would have to join a conference. Hey I don't know how many conferences there are in D-1 but if there wasn't enough to make up a 16 team play-off field then make new conferences or take the highest ranked teams after the champs to complete the field. Cut out the polls as much as possible.

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinton66
No, they haven't. 61 to 41 is only 20 points. 49 to 9 is 40 points. That was the last game.......

typical horn fan...obviously competition must be taken into consideration...a really good okie state team at home and a dismal aggie team in austin....are you serious?

[sinton66]

Originally posted by NastySlot
i was talking about no cap....leads to running it up.

I agree. That's what Mack was talking about when he said it was destroying the sportsmanship in the game. Running the score up for "style" points does exactly that.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
why notre dame being mentioned in this conversation...again? they've fallen off man....awful....who cares? horns should schedule them between sam houston and rice. To get them in a conference?

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by NastySlot
i was talking about no cap....leads to running it up. Ok I can see that. say 20 point high or low or something like that?

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by sinfan75
Ok I can see that. say 20 point high or low or something like that?

sounds good.

[sinton66]

How about in head to head among the three tied (on common opponents), throw out the highest and lowest, then calculate?

[handNthedirt]

nothing wrong with beatin the brakes off the opponent with your non starters...you're selling your teams future short if you don't. i guess everyone should get a ribbon in your mickey mouse league. preserving self esteem of the weak is the wussification of this Country...it's football...a man's game...we keep score for a reason...maybe the color gaurd is more your speed.

[sinfan75]

LMAO!! Some time this weekend I hit 2000 posts after SEVEN YEARS. AMAZIN!!!

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinfan75
To get them in a conference?

with all that's going on in the world you're concerned with nortre dame being in a conference??? thats way off man.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by sinton66
How about in head to head among the three tied (on common opponents), throw out the highest and lowest, then calculate? Only head -to-head amongst the 3. To much math after that.:D

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
nothing wrong with beatin the brakes off the opponent with your non starters...you're selling your teams future short if you don't. i guess everyone should get a ribbon in your mickey mouse league. preserving self esteem of the weak is the wussification of this Country...it's football...a man's game...we keep score for a reason...maybe the color gaurd is more your speed.

as a coach and former player i've been on both ends of blowouts...and i can tell you there is no honor in beating the
$#!+ out of an opponent late in a game that is well in hand....now maybe the fans like it but it stinks to be on either sideline for them....and i can tell you i am far from an handout ribbons to everyone kinda person...heck i was telling some coaches the other day we have too many kids on all district teams....and four teams in the playoffs is a joke.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
with all that's going on in the world you're concerned with nortre dame being in a conference??? thats way off man. I ain't talikin about the world I'm talkin football. Notre Dame NEEDS to be in a conference. OK?

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
with all that's going on in the world you're concerned with nortre dame being in a conference??? thats way off man.


no i was the one that brought it up with my idea for having playoffs and bowls work at the same time......just would make them in my system have to be in conference cause my system would only allow conference champions into the playoffs.....heck it might not change anything for norte dame.....they didn't play in bowls until the 70's.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
nothing wrong with beatin the brakes off the opponent with your non starters...you're selling your teams future short if you don't. i guess everyone should get a ribbon in your mickey mouse league. preserving self esteem of the weak is the wussification of this Country...it's football...a man's game...we keep score for a reason...maybe the color gaurd is more your speed.

So you believe in thouroughly embarrassing your conference opponents when all that's necessary is to win? No sportsmanship there. How about when you have the game well in hand, you kneel the ball on the one yard line three times to run out the rest of the clock instead of go on in for another score?

Wise coaches do this because they know what goes around comes around eventually, and besides that it shows some class.

[handNthedirt]

I'm a former coach and player as well...I've been beaten like a red headed step child and broke it off in more teams than not as a player and a coach...I'm a product of one of the best 5A coaches in the states history...was raised with much swagger and lettin em hang....gettin whipped is humbling...and prepares young men for the real world.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

all i heard on sports talk radio today that the fault goes on Texas for playing a soft schedule before conference play, the only team they faced that's going to a bowl is Rice and Sooners face couple of bowl bound teams. But head to head who won :( Texas

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
I'm a former coach and player as well...I've been beaten like a red headed step child and broke it off in more teams than not as a player and a coach...I'm a product of one of the best 5A coaches in the states history...was raised with much swagger and lettin em hang....gettin whipped is humbling...and prepares young men for the real world.

i will agree with the humbling...and i wasn't intending to sound like i was belly aching about getting my ^$$ kicked... thats part of the game......but i believe you stick it to teams to a certain extent..................just curious you don't have to tell me the town or school where you grew up.....but but area was it...and you don't even have to answer that...i was just curious.

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinton66
So you believe in thouroughly embarrassing your conference opponents when all that's necessary is to win? No sportsmanship there. How about when you have the game well in hand, you kneel the ball on the one yard line three times to run out the rest of the clock instead of go on in for another score?

Wise coaches do this because they know what goes around comes around eventually, and besides that it shows some class.

that mentality seemed to really work for your team....assuming your a horn fan. stoops is a shark in the water and that's why he'll be playin for the big hardware. if you don't get it you never will...it's a contact sport, a man's game, where imposing will on another man is what it's all about. again, I've been on both ends and I signed up for it by gettin involved. you ever been in a fist fight?

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinfan75
I ain't talikin about the world I'm talkin football. Notre Dame NEEDS to be in a conference. OK?

thank mom and dad for the roof and grub before they tuck you in tonight.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
I'm a former coach and player as well...I've been beaten like a red headed step child and broke it off in more teams than not as a player and a coach...I'm a product of one of the best 5A coaches in the states history...was raised with much swagger and lettin em hang....gettin whipped is humbling...and prepares young men for the real world.

I will agree if a coach puts in the subs with a 30 point lead and they score some more, that's not unsportsmanlike or "running it up".

But using OU as an example, when did Stoopes sub in the Tech game? Stoopes does it on purpose for "style points". That's what we were talking about.

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by NastySlot
i will agree with the humbling...and i wasn't intending to sound like i was belly aching about getting my ^$$ kicked... thats part of the game......but i believe you stick it to teams to a certain extent..................just curious you don't have to tell me the town or school where you grew up.....but but area was it...and you don't even have to answer that...i was just curious.

Austin area....coach is now in SA livin out his last years in the profession as a coordinator.

[sinfan75]

Hey I'm just sayin an all-conference play-off system could turn into some possible upsets that would really make for good matchups. National champs that nobody thought possible. It all happens on the field right?

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
Austin area....coach is now in SA livin out his last years in the profession as a coordinator.

thanks

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
thank mom and dad for the roof and grub before they tuck you in tonight. I'm 52 what's your point!!:thinking:

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinton66
I will agree if a coach puts in the subs with a 30 point lead and they score some more, that's not unsportsmanlike or "running it up".

But using OU as an example, when did Stoopes sub in the Tech game? Stoopes does it on purpose for "style points". That's what we were talking about.

seems to have worked out for him then, wouldn't you agree? the only place nice guys finish first in college football is in the recruiting game.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
that mentality seemed to really work for your team....assuming your a horn fan. stoops is a shark in the water and that's why he'll be playin for the big hardware. if you don't get it you never will...it's a contact sport, a man's game, where imposing will on another man is what it's all about. again, I've been on both ends and I signed up for it by gettin involved. you ever been in a fist fight?

Absolutely no room to win with class, huh?

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinfan75
I'm 52 what's your point!!:thinking:

Ha Ha!!! you almost sound like Gundy last year...I'm 40...I'm a man. Just bustin yer chops fella. :)

[handNthedirt]

winning is winning. not to say I'm not in agreeance with the way miami used to go about their business a few years back...I'm into winning handily with class guys...there is a HUGE difference.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
Ha Ha!!! you almost sound like Gundy last year...I'm 40...I'm a man. Just bustin yer chops fella. :) LMAO!! I was gonna post my mom quit tuckin me in bed when my farts started stinkin!! Guess I did it anyhow!!:spitlol: :D

[handNthedirt]

Originally posted by sinfan75
LMAO!! I was gonna post my mom quit tuckin me in bed when my farts started stinkin!! Guess I did it anyhow!!:spitlol: :D

If my mom did that I would've been on my own from a very early age....God bless her and her clothes pin!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by jason
thats just it - they are not the better team, it was proven in october - 45-35...

if you take the tie breakers from any of the other bcs conferences, then texas would be in...ou got in on a technicality, not based on what happened on the field - anybody with any common sense understands this concept and anybody who says otherwise is a fool...

wouldnt expect you to see that through maroon shaded glasses though.....

So do you think that Texas Tech is a better team than Texas because they beat them? I for one think that Texas is the better team between the two even though they lost. Like I said, it's my opinion, and in all honesty I could care less if you think any differently from it because it is mine. OU got in based on the rules and stipulations that were set forth and were agreed upon and lived up to by all of the other teams in the Big XII, Texas included. The rules are the rules, you can complain about them and get them changed, but if it were that big of an issue then it should have been brought up and complained about at a previous date, not after the fact. Simple as that. OU did get in based on what happened on the field, because they dismantled a team that defeated Texas. If Texas would have taken care of business on the field and won against Tech, this would not be an issue. The bottom line is that they didn't take care of business ON THE FIELD and now they have to suffer the consequences of not doing so. Enough said.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by handNthedirt
If my mom did that I would've been on my own from a very early age....God bless her and her clothes pin! I've been on my own since I was 19 and raisin my daughter since she was 10. Enjoyed every minute of it . Gonna hate it the day she's ready to leave though. which probably won't be much longer.

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So do you think that Texas Tech is a better team than Texas because they beat them? I for one think that Texas is the better team between the two even though they lost. Like I said, it's my opinion, and in all honesty I could care less if you think any differently from it because it is mine. OU got in based on the rules and stipulations that were set forth and were agreed upon and lived up to by all of the other teams in the Big XII, Texas included. The rules are the rules, you can complain about them and get them changed, but if it were that big of an issue then it should have been brought up and complained about at a previous date, not after the fact. Simple as that. OU did get in based on what happened on the field, because they dismantled a team that defeated Texas. If Texas would have taken care of business on the field and won against Tech, this would not be an issue. The bottom line is that they didn't take care of business ON THE FIELD and now they have to suffer the consequences of not doing so. Enough said. which is why the point system is the best way to decide a 3 way tie

[sinton66]

Gary, if Oklahoma would have "taken care of business" and not got beaten by Texas, we wouldn't be having this discussion eiither. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and you're not entirely mistaken. That doesn't change the fact that the BCS is a bad joke. It has been from the start.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinton66
Gary, if Oklahoma would have "taken care of business" and not got beaten by Texas, we wouldn't be having this discussion eiither. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and you're not entirely mistaken. That doesn't change the fact that the BCS is a bad joke. It has been from the start.

I didn't say that I agreed with the system as it stands, I'm just saying that it's too little too late to complain about it and make a big fuss. The rules were there and agreed upon and must be upheld. Does there need to be change? Absolutely, but you can't really dwell on it and piss and moan about it just because your favorite team didn't get in. Sure, it's a bad situation, but it's something that needs to be addressed for the sake of the rules, not just for the sake of your favorite team. I personally think the better team (at least at this point in the season) won and have rightfully earned their position, but as I said earlier, it's my opinion and nobody has to agree with it or like it, but I fully expect you to respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.

[handNthedirt]

now might be a good time to buy stock in kleenex...keep cryin horn fans....I'm riiiiach!!!

[sinfan75]

In my points system OK woulda gone to Big12 game anyhow so no big deal even with a cap.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I didn't say that I agreed with the system as it stands, I'm just saying that it's too little too late to complain about it and make a big fuss. The rules were there and agreed upon and must be upheld. Does there need to be change? Absolutely, but you can't really dwell on it and piss and moan about it just because your favorite team didn't get in. Sure, it's a bad situation, but it's something that needs to be addressed for the sake of the rules, not just for the sake of your favorite team. I personally think the better team (at least at this point in the season) won and have rightfully earned their position, but as I said earlier, it's my opinion and nobody has to agree with it or like it, but I fully expect you to respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.

I'm well aware there is nothing that can be done this time. I'm campaigning for the future and the integrity of the game and it's championships. Although I can't speak for anyone else, with me it really isn't about Texas not being there. I'd feel the same if the situation were reversed and Oklahoma got left out.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So do you think that Texas Tech is a better team than Texas because they beat them? I for one think that Texas is the better team between the two even though they lost. Like I said, it's my opinion, and in all honesty I could care less if you think any differently from it because it is mine. OU got in based on the rules and stipulations that were set forth and were agreed upon and lived up to by all of the other teams in the Big XII, Texas included. The rules are the rules, you can complain about them and get them changed, but if it were that big of an issue then it should have been brought up and complained about at a previous date, not after the fact. Simple as that. OU did get in based on what happened on the field, because they dismantled a team that defeated Texas. If Texas would have taken care of business on the field and won against Tech, this would not be an issue. The bottom line is that they didn't take care of business ON THE FIELD and now they have to suffer the consequences of not doing so. Enough said. UT's win over OU was more convincing than Tech's win over UT. JMO.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
UT's win over OU was more convincing than Tech's win over UT. JMO.

Yes, but at the end of the day you have to realize that all that matters is whether or not you do actually win.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yes, but at the end of the day you have to realize that all that matters is whether or not you do actually win. Yep. I realize that. It's a shame it had to come to this. I wish ONE of these teams had taken care of business. :doh: :)

[Gobbla2001]

I think everyone's missing the big picture here... a one loss team jumped the one loss team that beat them this year in the second to last poll.. I don't care who did it to who (though it hurts just a tad more seeing it's Texas)... yes, as I've said on this thread here, a big part of the problem is the Big 12's tie-breaking system, which YES, was a system everyone in the Big 12 agreed to... but what this situation does is shine-light on just how bad the BCS can screw up... and that is when you have a team that has beaten the other team getting jumped by that team, not falling behind, but being jumped... it shouldn't happen PERIOD...

(and before Tech fan replys, UT, OU, Fla, USC, Penn St and Utah did not JUMP you guys, you guys FELL behind them)

As I've also said (maybe not on here, but I've said it) OU looked just as impressive and scary to me going into the RRR as they do RIGHT NOW...

Playoffs game in Dallas, loser advances to Big 12 Championship

that should be your headline

[LH Panther Mom]

:bigcry: :bigcry: Stupid Red Raiders! Why couldn't they have taken care of business & just lost to Baylor? :bigcry: :bigcry: :rolleyes:



Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yes, but at the end of the day you have to realize that all that matters is whether or not you do actually win.
Thank you! Win and there's no backdoor to depend on!



Originally posted by sinton66
I'm well aware there is nothing that can be done this time. I'm campaigning for the future and the integrity of the game and it's championships. Although I can't speak for anyone else, with me it really isn't about Texas not being there. I'd feel the same if the situation were reversed and Oklahoma got left out.
I'm kind of surprised at this. If UT was there, I'd be shocked if all these posts from the Horn faithful were made "campaigning" for OU, or even Tech! :rolleyes: I doubt any posts on here are going to make any difference in changing rules that have been in place since 1995. Maybe we should send the link to this thread to the Big XII Commissioner and all the AD's. :doh: :doh:

[sinton66]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:I'm kind of surprised at this. If UT was there, I'd be shocked if all these posts from the Horn faithful were made "campaigning" for OU, or even Tech! :rolleyes: I doubt any posts on here are going to make any difference in changing rules that have been in place since 1995. Maybe we should send the link to this thread to the Big XII Commissioner and all the AD's. :doh: :doh:

Sounds good to me, got the addresses?;)

[STANG RED]

I'm a TTech fan, but to me Tech lost any and all credibility in this discussion/arguement when they got completely exposed and dominated by OU. Therefore it comes down to UT and OU in the discussion only for me. UT won the head to head, so the choice should have been a no brainer imo. UT got screwed big time, no doubt about it.

On the bright side, at least this further exposed a very flawed system that needs to be modified or done away with entirely. The existing bowl games could be used for a playoff if structured correctley, and I believe all the revenue or more would still be in place that the university presidents and athletic directors are concerned about. They would just have to get a little creative in the dispursment of it is all.
IMO, using the bowls as playoff games would give them a lot more meaning than most of them have right now. Most are nothing but money makers for the schools envolved, otherwise they mean nothing.

[scrub c]

Originally posted by coach
many ppl are complaing that the bcs shouldnt decide who gets in the big 21 title game but i disagree. If all three teams beat each other then how can u decide who is best? duh whoever is ranked higher.

Did I read somewhere that the big12 is the only conference that uses the "highest bcs average" for their tiebreaker.
I also think I remember reading or at least hearing other conferences 3-way tie-breakers are like LOWEST bcs average and then the remaining 2 HEAD TO HEAD during the season????

[JT44]

if they were in the ACC, TX would be in big 12 championship.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by scrub c
Did I read somewhere that the big12 is the only conference that uses the "highest bcs average" for their tiebreaker.
I also think I remember reading or at least hearing other conferences 3-way tie-breakers are like LOWEST bcs average and then the remaining 2 HEAD TO HEAD during the season????

I saw a chart on ESPN yesterday that showed Texas would be the one chosen for the conference championship game by the tie breaking rules of every other major conference. Only the scenario that the big 12 uses puts OU in that game.
They also said the coference president (whoever he is) stated the tie breakers would be addressed and adjusted after all this BS has taken place. Well he didnt say it exactley like that, but he did say it would be addressed at the next conference meeting.

[Diocletian]

Let's not all forget who made the computers....

That's right, Humans did.

The problem with the current setup is that it's not completely opinionated towards fairness. They should add a Conf champ game to each conf and set a NCAA standard for the rankings, rulings, and tiebreakers.

Then take the winners of each BCS conf and have them play it off!

[bandera7]

Originally posted by JT44
if they were in the ACC, TX would be in big 12 championship.

? Only big 12 teams are eligible for the Big 12 championship though....:D

[JR2004]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:bigcry: :bigcry: Stupid Red Raiders! Why couldn't they have taken care of business & just lost to Baylor? :bigcry: :bigcry: :rolleyes:



Thank you! Win and there's no backdoor to depend on!



I'm kind of surprised at this. If UT was there, I'd be shocked if all these posts from the Horn faithful were made "campaigning" for OU, or even Tech! :rolleyes: I doubt any posts on here are going to make any difference in changing rules that have been in place since 1995. Maybe we should send the link to this thread to the Big XII Commissioner and all the AD's. :doh: :doh:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Simple Man]

If Oklahoma cant jump Texas, Texas cant jump Texas Tech. Texas fans want it both ways. Just because another conference has a different tiebreaker doesnt make them have the right one.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Simple Man
If Oklahoma cant jump Texas, Texas cant jump Texas Tech. Texas fans want it both ways. Just because another conference has a different tiebreaker doesnt make them have the right one. neither texas nor oklahoma were beat by 44 pts. simple really.

[Red&White_9x5]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I'm a TTech fan, but to me Tech lost any and all credibility in this discussion/arguement when they got completely exposed and dominated by OU. Therefore it comes down to UT and OU in the discussion only for me. UT won the head to head, so the choice should have been a no brainer imo. UT got screwed big time, no doubt about it.

On the bright side, at least this further exposed a very flawed system that needs to be modified or done away with entirely. The existing bowl games could be used for a playoff if structured correctley, and I believe all the revenue or more would still be in place that the university presidents and athletic directors are concerned about. They would just have to get a little creative in the dispursment of it is all.
IMO, using the bowls as playoff games would give them a lot more meaning than most of them have right now. Most are nothing but money makers for the schools envolved, otherwise they mean nothing.

Great post StangRed. There is nothing any of us can do to change this situation, but we can vent. Here is the #1 tragedy of all in this situation... the young men that have busted their tails all year. As fans we can grip and complain, and I have, but we need to remember that nobody got more screwed over in this whole deal more than the players. They busted their butts and defeated a team on the field by 10 points just to watch the other team move in front of them and go to the Conference championship game and very likely the National Championship. I just hope the Big12 realizes how bad they screwed up and alters the tie break system in the future.