PDA

View Full Version : Texas board OKs giving high school athletes more credit



kepdawg
11-20-2008, 01:03 AM
Texas board OKs giving high school athletes more credit

11:08 PM CST on Wednesday, November 19, 2008

By TERRENCE STUTZ / The Dallas Morning News
tstutz@dallasnews.com

AUSTIN – In a state where football is king, students who pass, kick and tackle will soon be able to get more credit toward high school graduation.

After lengthy debate that pitted coaches against some school reform advocates, the State Board of Education approved a plan Wednesday to give football players – and other high school athletes – twice as much credit.

The proposal, which could go into effect as early as next school year, would allow four years of sports to count as elective credits toward graduation instead of the current maximum of two years.

The board's 10-5 vote followed often emotional debate, with both Dallas members – Republican Geraldine Miller and Democrat Mavis Knight – voting no.

Supporters said the move would keep kids in school and spur them to do well in academic courses. Critics charged that the plan would de-emphasize academics and return to the days of "football comes first."

Ms. Miller was among the most vocal opponents, insisting the plan would "completely dismantle" many of the education reforms enacted in Texas over the last two decades.

"This takes us back to the way things used to be," she said. "Our school reform movement put everything in perspective, with academics coming first. Now, we are opening the door to water down all the efforts we have made to strengthen standards in our schools."

But Craig Agnew, the Brenham High School coach and teacher who petitioned the board to adopt the rule, said an "unfair burden" exists for student athletes who must meet stringent course requirements to retain their athletic eligibility.

Students in other activities, such as band, choir, dance and theater already get full credit for their participation, he said.

"All we're looking for is equal treatment," he told board members. "The evidence supporting the benefits of sports participation by students is overwhelming. This is an important part of these students' lives."

Under the board's decision, the Texas Education Agency will write curriculum standards for the various athletic programs offered in high schools. Those standards are mandatory for any course in which students receive credit toward graduation.

Board member Terri Leo, R-The Woodlands, opposed the plan, predicting it would "open up a huge can of worms" by encouraging an "endless list" of sponsors of other extracurricular activities to seek graduation credit.

"Do you seriously think that a large number of students won't play football if we don't approve this change?" she asked supporters of the idea.

But board member Ken Mercer, R-San Antonio, countered that it was an issue of fairness.

"Anyone familiar with these activities knows the amount of time involved for these students, and yet under current rules they are told they cannot get any credit," he said.

While he and other supporters predicted a positive effect on the state's dropout rate, Ms. Miller said the plan was "not the silver bullet" for keeping students in school.

A final board vote on the plan is scheduled for Friday.

Under new state graduation requirements – which took effect with freshmen last year – students need four years each of math, science, English and social studies. They also need their electives and a handful of other required classes, such as two years of foreign language and 11/2 years of physical education.

In all, the number of credits needed to get a diploma will increase from 24 to 26 for students graduating in 2011. A credit is equal to one year of instruction in a subject.

In the know: Taking credit

Under a proposal approved by the State Board of Education on Wednesday, students who play football, baseball, volleyball and other sports could get twice as many credits toward graduation.

Now: Student athletes can receive up to two credits toward high school graduation for participation in football and other sports. That number fulfills the 1 ½ credits required in physical education and an additional half-credit in electives. A credit is equal to one year in a subject.

New rule: Student athletes would be allowed to receive up to 4 credits toward graduation, with that fulfilling the 1 ½ credits in physical education and 2 ½ credits in electives. Under the Recommended High School Program – taken by most students – 3 ½ credits of electives are required. That means student athletes need to take only one nonsports elective to graduate.


LINK (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/112008dntexsportscredit.3cb8549.html)

BOCEPHUS
11-20-2008, 05:35 AM
TELL'M LIKE IT IS AGNEW!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOY DUN WENT POLITICAL ON ME.


CAN'T BELIEVE IT EVER GOT LIKE THIS, OR HAD TO COME THIS.

charlesrixey
11-20-2008, 07:41 AM
this will just make it easier for the players to graduate--no more home economics, journalism or other class they tried to take to make it easier on themselves.

students should get credit for all of the classes they take, including the years of sports they do, but not at the expense of narrowing the focus of their education

no easy answer

LH Panther Mom
11-20-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by charlesrixey
this will just make it easier for the players to graduate--no more home economics, journalism or other class they tried to take to make it easier on themselves.

students should get credit for all of the classes they take, including the years of sports they do, but not at the expense of narrowing the focus of their education

no easy answer
It will make it easier for SOME to graduate. There are many kids who don't take the low road in order to gain the necessary credits.


I don't have a problem with the 4x4x4 in essence, but I do think that expecting ALL students to take Algebra II is setting some up for failure. The 4x4x4 was designed to better prepare students for college. For college-bound students, that's a great thing! Yet there are tons of kids who have no intention of attending college, and many who are not college "material". IMO, an idea would be to have two tracks of HS education, with the same goals of preparing all students for life outside of high school, whether they attend college or not.

ronwx5x
11-20-2008, 09:11 AM
As it has been too many years to count since I was in school, how many class periods are there in a day? Seems like there were six for me, which would make it pretty difficult to get 26 credits in four years! Must be seven now, at least. I did take four years of math, science, English and social studies, but I'm not sure it is really the way to go for other folks. It is not easy to pass those classes, so there are people who will now not graduate because they cannot pass four years of each in four years. My own children would have had a difficult time.

Summer school must be just about mandatory for today's students.

BILLYFRED0000
11-20-2008, 09:21 AM
I just think this is more than fair. These kids are taking PE four years and getting half a credit while other kids take electives and get a whole credit. I always thought that was unfair. Being prepared for college means core courses.

LH Panther Mom
11-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by ronwx5x
As it has been too many years to count since I was in school, how many class periods are there in a day? Seems like there were six for me, which would make it pretty difficult to get 26 credits in four years! Must be seven now, at least. I did take four years of math, science, English and social studies, but I'm not sure it is really the way to go for other folks. It is not easy to pass those classes, so there are people who will now not graduate because they cannot pass four years of each in four years. My own children would have had a difficult time.

Summer school must be just about mandatory for today's students.
We have had 7, I believe, for several years, but went to 8.

Emerson1
11-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by ronwx5x
As it has been too many years to count since I was in school, how many class periods are there in a day? Seems like there were six for me, which would make it pretty difficult to get 26 credits in four years! Must be seven now, at least. I did take four years of math, science, English and social studies, but I'm not sure it is really the way to go for other folks. It is not easy to pass those classes, so there are people who will now not graduate because they cannot pass four years of each in four years. My own children would have had a difficult time.

Summer school must be just about mandatory for today's students.
You had trouble passing HS? That explains a lot.

----

This is how it always should of been. There is no difference between getting 4 credits for sports and getting credit for dance because it's considered an "art", neither are educational. Electives were the biggest waste of time in HS, nothing worse than being in a class you don't need but have to have, for teachers and students.

It's not like it will take away from your core classes, it just stops you from having to take a filler class you don't need

LH Panther Mom
11-20-2008, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by charlesrixey
this will just make it easier for the players to graduate--no more home economics, journalism or other class they tried to take to make it easier on themselves.
Another point on this - how is it easier to take athletics instead of Home Ec? Do you seriously think the amount of time spent on HE homework is going to equal or even come close to the amount of practice time?


(Actually, Home Ec is a great class for ALL students to take, since it teaches things that are useful in everyday life.)

Emerson1
11-20-2008, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Another point on this - how is it easier to take athletics instead of Home Ec? Do you seriously think the amount of time spent on HE homework is going to equal or even come close to the amount of practice time?


(Actually, Home Ec is a great class for ALL students to take, since it teaches things that are useful in everyday life.)
It's not that it's easier, it was just a waste of time.

I had to take a digital graphics course last year to get my last elective credit. Biggest waste of time ever, it was a block schedule class so I was in there for an 1:20 hours every other day. Teacher didn't know what he was doing so it was about 30 minutes of work we had 4 class periods to finish it in....

ronwx5x
11-20-2008, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Emerson1
You had trouble passing HS? That explains a lot.

Actually I made one "B" and the remainder were "A", but that didn't mean it was easy. I also went to a very small school and I really think it was easier than the large schools today's student's have to attend.

Even after four years of math and science in HS, I avoided as much math and science as possible in college. I am not good at those courses and I admit it!!!:D Unlike Emerson, of course.

LH Panther Mom
11-20-2008, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Emerson1
It's not that it's easier, it was just a waste of time.
I guess it depends on what elective is chosen. My stepson (years ago) had originally picked Ag Mechanics as an elective. That would have been a waste of time. He (with help lol) decided to take a Home Ec class. What guy doesn't need to know how to cook or sew (yes, a good tool to have)? Oh and learn how to care for a bag of flour (baby) over a 3-week period of time? :D

Troybuilt
11-20-2008, 09:59 AM
I guess running 40 yd sprints is better that making a quilt or baking in home ec.

Johnny Utah
11-20-2008, 10:00 AM
Let me help out...Great job by Coach Agnew. It is about Fairness and it is about time!!! Schools have been pushed for the 4X4 curriculum, meaning students have to have 4 years of Science, Math, English, and Social Studies...NO MATTER IF THEY ARE COLLEGE BOUND OR NOT!!! I truely believe this is where we are going wrong. I am all for academics, but not all kids are college material. We should allow kids to be "tracked", meaning if a kid wants to be a plumber, fireman, post office worker, or computer tech, he or she should get the training in hs for that. College bound kids should have more stringent curriculum for their futures. We are not all the same, and people that make decisions about education are the problem. Next time you get a chance to vote on a State School Board Member, look at it closely and choose wisely, especially if you have kids involved. I applaud the new rule and the ones who pushed for it.

BILLYFRED0000
11-20-2008, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I guess it depends on what elective is chosen. My stepson (years ago) had originally picked Ag Mechanics as an elective. That would have been a waste of time. He (with help lol) decided to take a Home Ec class. What guy doesn't need to know how to cook or sew (yes, a good tool to have)? Oh and learn how to care for a bag of flour (baby) over a 3-week period of time? :D

Well I took Trig and Physics with my elective classes my senior year so :p

LH Panther Mom
11-20-2008, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Well I took Trig and Physics with my elective classes my senior year so :p
So did I. So there. :p And honestly, I've not used either since. Although, if I looked in some dark recesses of a box in the attic, I may still have a slide rule. :nerd: :nerd:

Heffelfinger
11-20-2008, 03:26 PM
http://coach.thsca.com/

This is huge. I thought I was this thread earlier but couldn't find it to comment.

This is way overdue, and make note of those Board members that voted against this. They are not friends of athletics.

sahen
11-20-2008, 04:48 PM
wow...they have changed what is recommended to graduate a lot since i graduated...i had all the 4X4 crap, but i think we only had to have 3 years of math, 4 of english, 4 of social studies, and 3 of science or something like that....what is the 4th science? chemistry, biology, physics....?? geology or some global warming crap? i have a degree in biochemistry and i dont know what else they could teach in high school that is just as useful as those 3....

kepdawg
11-20-2008, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by sahen
wow...they have changed what is recommended to graduate a lot since i graduated...i had all the 4X4 crap, but i think we only had to have 3 years of math, 4 of english, 4 of social studies, and 3 of science or something like that....what is the 4th science? chemistry, biology, physics....?? geology or some global warming crap? i have a degree in biochemistry and i dont know what else they could teach in high school that is just as useful as those 3....

I would think most people's 4 sciences would come from these:

IPC
Chem 1&2
Physics
Bio 1&2
A&P

I think I was the first person from my school to graduate without taking Physics.

tbone
11-20-2008, 05:02 PM
By adding a required 4th year of math and science it was forcing schools to add zero hours or go to an 8 period day. The 8 period day was needed to accomodate the kids that were heavily involved in athletics. By allowing credit for all four years of athletic participation, it may prevent us from having to go to the 8 period day.

JustAFan
11-20-2008, 05:05 PM
So many districts are on so many schedules that the 4x4 (and resulting required 26 credits) are very difficult for some districts. Think of a small district with a 7 period school day. Some classes are only offered one period per day. Since athletes are already "throwing away" two classes (athletics 11th grade and 12th grade), they only have 26 possible credits they can take. What if some of the courses they need have a schedule conflict?

This was the best thing the State Board could do. As stated many times, it is only fair that athletes should earn the same 4 credits that students do in band, choir, theater, dance, and any of the other "permitted electives".

JustAFan
11-20-2008, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by kepdawg
I would think most people's 4 sciences would come from these:

IPC
Chem 1&2
Physics
Bio 1&2
A&P

I think I was the first person from my school to graduate without taking Physics.

Except that in 3 years you cannot use IPC to graduate on the Recommended Plan or higher.

WylieBulldog92
11-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Wait about the science and math thing...I think we're only required to take 3 periods?

kepdawg
11-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by JustAFan
Except that in 3 years you cannot use IPC to graduate on the Recommended Plan or higher.

Then take the other ones!

Emerson1
11-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by WylieBulldog92
Wait about the science and math thing...I think we're only required to take 3 periods?
I think starting with the 2007-2008 Freshman it went from 3 sciences to 4 sciences. It's been 4 maths for a while now.

WylieBulldog92
11-20-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Emerson1
I think starting with the 2007-2008 Freshman it went from 3 sciences to 4 sciences. It's been 4 maths for a while now.
Oh okay thanks... I was like I'm going to have to take another science! Thanks for clearing that up Emerson.