Llano @ Liberty Hill

[LH Panther Mom]

And the "old" district rivalries continue this week as the Yellow Jackets travel to Panther Stadium for the district 8-3A championship game & Parents Night. It will be a battle of the slot-t's and Llano is fighting for their playoff hopes.


Panthers Class of '09 - it's the last district game of your careers and your last home game. Finish it, boys! :cheerl: :cheerl: :cheerl:

[lange4]

nobody knows if Llano is playing for thier playoff hopes or not yet. supposed to be a district meeting this week to interrpret the tie break rules. nobody seems to be real sure what they are. Plus Wimberley still has to beat Fredericksburg. and Llano only has one loss at this point.

[gobbler grad]

LH wins big...last home game...Panthers run wild...:thinking:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by lange4
supposed to be a district meeting this week to interrpret the tie break rules. nobody seems to be real sure what they are.
:doh: :doh: I've never been to one, but I thought those types of things were decided awhile back? :confused: Of course, I've seen about eleventy-three versions on here, so maybe that's why all the confusion. :D ;)

[falcon66]

Llano is in by district rules. All tie breakers are positive points capped at 17. Thus there is a 3 way tie for 2nd place Burnet has 17 points, Wimberley 6, Llano 6. Llano and Wimberley are tied at 6 so it thens go back to head to head and Llano beat Wimberley.

GO JACKETS

[VERNONLION#1]

Would it be safe to say that the reps for Dist. 8 are as follows,
DI-LH
DII-LLlano
DII-Wimberley

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by VERNONLION#1
Would it be safe to say that the reps for Dist. 8 are as follows,
DI-LH
DII-LLlano
DII-Wimberley
I have no clue. And I'm not sure anyone else does, either, or at least from what I've seen/heard because I've seen a handful of different point-breaker thoughts. The one I have seen that would have pretty accurate info didn't mention -points not being counted. :thinking:

[Panther One]

Originally posted by VERNONLION#1
Would it be safe to say that the reps for Dist. 8 are as follows,
DI-LH
DII-LLlano
DII-Wimberley
The only way Burnet doesn't make the playoffs is if Llano beats us next week and Wimberley goes on to beat Fredericksburg. Otherwise, Burnet is in and will be DI.

If we win our next two games and you guys beat Iowa Park, we'll see you in round two.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Panther One
The only way Burnet doesn't make the playoffs is if Llano beats us next week and Wimberley goes on to beat Fredericksburg. Otherwise, Burnet is in and will be DI.

If we win our next two games and you guys beat Iowa Park, we'll see you in round two.
I keep thinking that, then people start trying to confuse me with the +/- if/but/unless and/or stuff. ;)

[VERNONLION#1]

I was just wondering because the Dist 8 standing had Wimberley and Burnet with 3-2 records.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by VERNONLION#1
I was just wondering because the Dist 8 standing had Wimberley and Burnet with 3-2 records.
Correct. If we win over Llano and Wimberley wins over Fredericksburg, Burnet, Llano & Wimberley will all be 4-2. :vrycnfsd:

[SintonFan_inAustin]

come on, its not rocket science :)

its football math !!

3 way tie brb let me take a look at it.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
come on, its not rocket science :)

its football math !!

3 way tie brb let me take a look at it.
You're right, it's not. The confusion is the many point-differentials that have been posted as the tie-breaker.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by VERNONLION#1
Would it be safe to say that the reps for Dist. 8 are as follows,
DI-LH
DII-LLlano
DII-Wimberley If -- IF -- Llano is in fact in at this point, it would mean Burnet is the third representative from District 8 UNLESS Llano upsets LH next week and Wimberley beats F'burg. If LH wins, the three way tie would have Wimberley out (with the assumption above). If Llano wins, Burnet is out based on a two-way tie with Wimberley at 4-2, with the Texans having the head-to-head advantage. Again, this is all predicated by the "IF" that I began with, which no one in authority has been able to confirm yet.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You're right, it's not. The confusion is the many point-differentials that have been posted as the tie-breaker. is it 17?


Llano is in position for a share of the district title or being out of the playoffs with a loss :eek:

i have it figure out if its 17 district power points.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
is it 17?

Llano is in position for a share of the district title or being out of the playoffs with a loss :eek:

i have it figure out if its 17 district power points.
I don't think it matter whether it's 14 or 17 or even if it were the full 23 (which I'm pretty sure it's not).

I think the first question is whether or not ONLY margin of victory is used and not point differential. If ONLY margin of victory is used, Burnet is +14 or +17 or +23 or whatever it is, and Llano and Wimberley are both at +6. If the second tie-breaker would be head to head, that favors Llano.

If point differential is the tie breaker (that is, combining margins of victory and defeat), Llano would need to beat LH or hope for F'burg upsetting Wimberley since they would lose the three-way tie.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by falcon66
Llano is in by district rules. All tie breakers are positive points capped at 17. Thus there is a 3 way tie for 2nd place Burnet has 17 points, Wimberley 6, Llano 6. Llano and Wimberley are tied at 6 so it thens go back to head to head and Llano beat Wimberley.

GO JACKETS if 3 way tie at 4-2:

Burnet=+17 for win over Llano, -6 for loss to Wimberley = + 13

Wimberley= -6 for loss to Llano, +6 for win over Burnet= 0

Llano= -17 for loss to Burnet, +6 for win over Wimberley= -13


Burnet finishes 2nd and Wimberley 3rd

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by ziggy29
I don't think it matter whether it's 14 or 17 or even if it were the full 23 (which I'm pretty sure it's not).

I think the first question is whether or not ONLY margin of victory is used and not point differential. If ONLY margin of victory is used, Burnet is +14 or +17 or +23 or whatever it is, and Llano and Wimberley are both at +6. If the second tie-breaker would be head to head, that favors Llano.

If point differential is the tie breaker (that is, combining margins of victory and defeat), Llano would need to beat LH or hope for F'burg upsetting Wimberley since they would lose the three-way tie. never heard of only point of victory before being used, only point differential

[ir0x0r]

Llano had to beat Wimberly by 7 points to be in it. Since they only won by 6, that means they are out and Burnet will face China Spring, since Gatesville lost last night. West presumably getting Liberty Hill and Glen Rose getting Wimberley.

[Panther One]

If they use point differential, which is most often the case, Llano would be the odd man out in a three-way tie. If it's only positive point differential, then Wimberley would be the odd man out. If it is the former, then yes, a win would give Llano the district title, while a loss would put them out of the playoffs. Crazy, huh?

In my opinion, and it's nothing against Llano, point differential should be used, and if it's not, this district has some messed up rules. In a 3-way tie, why ignore the losses? When head-to-head can't be used, you have to factor in how the teams did against each other, factoring in losses and wins. You can't give Llano a free pass on their 25-point loss.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by ir0x0r
Llano had to beat Wimberly by 7 points to be in it. Since they only won by 6, that means they are out and Burnet will face China Spring, since Gatesville lost last night. West presumably getting Liberty Hill and Glen Rose getting Wimberley. they had to have won by at least 12 in that game to be ahead of Wimberley but they didn't.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by Panther One
If they use point differential, which is most often the case, Llano would be the odd man out in a three-way tie. If it's only positive point differential, then Wimberley would be the odd man out. If it is the former, then yes, a win would give Llano the district title, while a loss would put them out of the playoffs. Crazy, huh?

In my opinion, and it's nothing against Llano, point differential should be used, and if it's not, this district has some messed up rules. In a 3-way tie, why ignore the losses? When head-to-head can't be used, you have to factor in how the teams did against each other, factoring in losses and wins. You can't give Llano a free pass on their 25-point loss. if point of victory margin is a option, wow it just basically says run the score up as much as you can because you never know if comes back to bite you in the rear.

[Panther One]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
if point of victory margin is a option, wow it just basically says run the score up as much as you can because you never know if comes back to bite you in the rear.
Most districts cap it at 14 or 17, so running it up wouldn't matter. I remember last year against Rockdale in the first district game, we took a few knees inside the five to run out the clock. Looking back, our coaches decided that we should have punched it in, just in case we wound up in some kind of tie. If you have a chance to get maximum points (14), you should get it for situations like these.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
if point of victory margin is a option, wow it just basically says run the score up as much as you can because you never know if comes back to bite you in the rear.
But isn't that why they cap it to (say) 14 or 17 points? Beyond that there is no incentive for running up the score.

The sad thing is that Llano had almost twice as many yards as Burnet in their 12-35 drubbing, but Burnet made the most important plays when they had to, and the Jackets didn't.

[bp80884]

I think the butler did it!

I have heard every possible scenario out there. I am beginning to think the UIL is running this blog (justing kidding mods).

I have a very detailed D 1 bracket (spreadsheet version) if anyone wants it. Just send me a private message.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Of course, I've seen about eleventy-three versions on here, so maybe that's why all the confusion. :D ;)
Surely, LHPM exaggerates here. Last time I checked there were only eleventy-TWO different opinions on how the three-way tie would be resolved. :p

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by ir0x0r
Llano had to beat Wimberly by 7 points to be in it. Since they only won by 6, that means they are out...
Why 7? That seems to indicate that only positive points would be used. But if that were the case, a win by six ties them in positive points with Wimberley, whom the Jackets beat.

Needing to win by seven only makes sense if (a) positive points were the first tiebreaker and (b) point differential, not head-to-head, were the second tiebreaker if there was still a tie after the first tiebreaker.

And even if Llano didn't win by a wide enough margin to clinch, they aren't "out" unless they are beaten by LH next week *and* Wimberley beats Fredericksburg. They'd be "out" in the complicated three-way tie scenario at 4-2, but they'd surely still have life left. They'd just have to play their hearts out in Liberty Hill and cheer like mad for the Billies.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by ziggy29
Surely, LHPM exaggerates here. Last time I checked there were only eleventy-TWO different opinions on how the three-way tie would be resolved. :p
:doh: You're absolutely right! :p


Originally posted by ziggy29
They'd just have to play their hearts out in Liberty Hill and cheer like mad for the Billies.
Well, you should start cheering for the Red & White. :devil:

[falcon66]

Llano is in right now. Negative points are not counted per district bylaws.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by falcon66
Llano is in right now. Negative points are not counted per district bylaws.
I'd be tickled if you are right. I just wish I had some access to district bylaws to confirm it or for someone in an official capacity to confirm it.

[lange4]

and when tied it goes back to first tie break which is head to head Llano is in.

[ziggy29]

I have to say I'm shocked that almost 40% (as of now) pick Llano to win. I certainly give them a more realistic chance to win than, say, Canyon Lake beating Burnet... but I'm wondering what people are thinking here.

I wonder if the suspicion is that LH will "coast" and that Llano will be fighting for their lives (depending on the real resolution of the potential 3-way tie)... but I can't see LH coasting and I can't imagine Coach Vance allowing that. One advantage Llano may have -- compared to most opposing defenses -- is that they also run the Slot-T so they are likely used to defending it in practices and know some of its nuances. (Of course, that can also give LH's defense a similar advantage. But I think the Jackets' chances improve the lower the score gets.)

But in reality, I don't put Llano's chances of beating LH on the road at any more than 5%. And I suspect 3% might be closer.

[pirate4state]

my head is spinning :crazy1:

i'll check back in next week and yall can tell me what happened. lol.

FINISH IT PANTHERS!!! :cheerl:

[44INAROW]

I'm confused....... Is LH going D2 or not?

oh and LH wins big ;)

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by 44INAROW
I'm confused....... Is LH going D2 or not?

Yes, +/- if/but/unless and/or/depends. :D

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by pirate4state
my head is spinning :crazy1:

i'll check back in next week and yall can tell me what happened. lol.

FINISH IT PANTHERS!!! :cheerl: http://www.rgvsn.com/forum/images/smilies/headache.gif

[Centextrash]

I think that only positive points are used.
SO If LH beats Llano:

Burnet is +17
Llano is +6
Wimberley is +6

Wouldn't Llano hold the head to head vs Wimberley?

My guess is

Burnet Div I

Liberty Hill Div II W
Llano Div II R

I am sure the district will sort it all out eventually.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Centextrash
I think that only positive points are used.
SO If LH beats Llano:

Burnet is +17
Llano is +6
Wimberley is +6

Wouldn't Llano hold the head to head vs Wimberley?

My guess is

Burnet Div I

Liberty Hill Div II W
Llano Div II R

I am sure the district will sort it all out eventually.
So even if Wimberley beats Fredericksburg, they will be out because of the +6 only over the Burnet win, is that right? If that's the case, the only way Burnet will not be DI is if they lose.

[LH Panther Mom]

And GO PANTHERS!

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
So even if Wimberley beats Fredericksburg, they will be out because of the +6 only over the Burnet win, is that right? If that's the case, the only way Burnet will not be DI is if they lose.
Well, in theory Burnet could also miss if Llano were to upset LH, since that would leave Burnet and Wimberley in a 2-way tie for 3rd at 4-2 with the Texans holding the head-to-head -- but I suspect you'd prefer to consider that off the table. ;)

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by ziggy29
Well, in theory Burnet could also miss if Llano were to upset LH, since that would leave Burnet and Wimberley in a 2-way tie for 3rd at 4-2 with the Texans holding the head-to-head -- but I suspect you'd prefer to consider that off the table. ;)
Well, yeah, there's that option, though less likely. :p ;)

[solocam]

Cats by 21

[hookandladder]

Originally posted by VERNONLION#1
Would it be safe to say that the reps for Dist. 8 are as follows,
DI-LH
DII-LLlano
DII-Wimberley

DI or DII is just plain stupid, there should 1 divison 1 State Champion. Just like all other sports in High School, having 2 State Champions in my opinion is just to satisfy some parents and make money. Just plain stupid.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by hookandladder
DI or DII is just plain stupid, there should 1 divison 1 State Champion. Just like all other sports in High School, having 2 State Champions in my opinion is just to satisfy some parents and make money. Just plain stupid.
It might be stupid to you, but parents have no say in whether there's one or eight.

[hookandladder]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
It might be stupid to you, but parents have no say in whether there's one or eight.

It is still stupid, back in my day when you said you were State Champion that meant you were the best in your class in your State not in your divison. One Divison One State Champion, no doubts who is best. Basketball,Softball,Baseball and all other sports in High School when you say your are State Champions you really are.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by hookandladder
It is still stupid, back in my day when you said you were State Champion that meant you were the best in your class in your State not in your divison. One Divison One State Champion, no doubts who is best. Basketball,Softball,Baseball and all other sports in High School when you say your are State Champions you really are.
I'm sure that La Grange is just as proud of their football state championship as any other team is.


However, THIS thread isn't about anyone's state championship. It's about a DISTRICT TITLE!

[LH Panther Mom]

So, Llano folks.....tell me about your team. I watched a clip of the QB, but that's all I've really seen. Oh, we did meet one of the OT's at camp this summer.


What's the scoop?

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
So, Llano folks.....tell me about your team. I watched a clip of the QB, but that's all I've really seen. Oh, we did meet one of the OT's at camp this summer.

What's the scoop?
They run this offense called the "Slot-T" which you might have heard of...

[Hill Man]

Originally posted by ziggy29
They run this offense called the "Slot-T" which you might have heard of...

The game will only last about an hour thirty :D

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by ziggy29
They run this offense called the "Slot-T" which you might have heard of...
:p

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Hill Man
The game will only last about an hour thirty :D

Ain't it the truth. LH rolls again. District Champs 3 years running
:clap:

[Centextrash]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
So even if Wimberley beats Fredericksburg, they will be out because of the +6 only over the Burnet win, is that right? If that's the case, the only way Burnet will not be DI is if they lose.

Unless Llano beats LH, then both would be 5-1.

Wimb and Burnet both win they will be 4-2, wimberley wins on head to head.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Centextrash
Unless Llano beats LH, then both would be 5-1.

Wimb and Burnet both win they will be 4-2, wimberley wins on head to head.

:thumbsup: Thanks!

[sandmaster]

So we have discussed the playoff situations very in depth on this thread. I know most people think LH is going to win this one but does anything Llano has a real chance to win. They are playing pretty good football this year.

[sandmaster]

sorry i had a typo anyone think Llano has a chance to win this one is what i meant to say. not anything

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by sandmaster
So we have discussed the playoff situations very in depth on this thread. I know most people think LH is going to win this one but does anything Llano has a real chance to win. They are playing pretty good football this year.
I tried to get it back on track earlier & gave up on the slot-t answer. ;)

Yes, I think Llano has a real chance to win. There are few teams in the state that know the ins & outs of the slot-t to be able to defend it and that, in my mind, makes you dangerous.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by sandmaster
So we have discussed the playoff situations very in depth on this thread. I know most people think LH is going to win this one but does anything Llano has a real chance to win. They are playing pretty good football this year.
Yes. Llano has a chance to win -- small, but not zero. For one thing, they know how to defend the Slot-T; they see it in practice a lot. I think this is the best Llano team in several years, and they've had some good ones. Last year's team went three games deep in the playoffs and I really think this year's team might be a little better.

I don't give the Jackets much more than a 5-10% chance to win, but that's enough if they play their best football and they catch LH at a bad moment.

The main thing that works against the Jackets is the experience and mentality of the Panthers. As I've said elsewhere, you don't win 33 in a row if you don't respect your opponents and give it your all each game. Coach Vance has not allowed his kids to do that.