Texas Tech has NO CLASS!

[Jacket2000]

From this day forward,I will not support Texas Tech or any other program which involves Mike Leach!
J2K

[3afan2K3]

Are you crying over that one celebration?

[3afan]

dont blame the coach & the program for the action of ~6 idiots ...

[TXMike]

I'd like to give the coach some credit because you could see he was visibly PO'd about the incident at the time it happened and he made sure to mention it first thing in the post game interview. But how hard would it have been to bench every one of those guys immediately? The game was won, he had nothing to lose. Now THAT would have been a statement.

At first I thought it was really disrespectful towards the Navy team, but the more I thought about it I am thinking it is possibly even more disrespectful to their own coaching staff. How could they not have a clue how mortified the coaches would be over this?

Oh well, when those Tech "studs" are out working in the oil fields or tending to the livestock in the next few years, the young men from the Naval Academy will be out there fighting and dying so that the Tech loosers and others like them can live in the greatest Nation on earth.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

No excuse, but it was all emotion. I think that it was uncalled for, but they're out there playing and made a play and celebrated. I'm not going to stop supporting them for doing it, even though it was wrong. Plus, the coach had a disgusted look on his face after they done it, so why blame him?

[Da Mules]

Mike Leach puts a disgusted look on MY face. All blow and no go; some O and NO D!
Texas Tech football Motto: half/a$$ed is pretty good, sometimes! As long as you're not playing on national TV!
And don't forget that loveable Bobby Knight :D

[slpybear the bullfan]

What Happened???

[Jacket2000]

Yes, I'll blame the coach for it. For one,if he had any control over his players, it wouldn't have happened. Besdies, I didnt see him jump on anyone after the play.
I'll also blame him for calling a flea flicker with the game well in hand and for lining up in the shotgun and running plays with 40 seconds left and a 20+ point lead. Just like school on saturday....NO CLASS!
J2K

[VERNONLION#1]

3afan2K3:
Are you crying over that one celebration?I missed the game can someone fill me in on what happened?

[Bell_06]

Looks like I turned the channel to soon... I toss literature that comes to us from Tech... After that incident 3 years ago with the goal post and the A&M spectators, the President of the University basically supported the students and their "lack of good judgement" I said phooey on everything that school stands for.

[zippy]

VERNONLION#1
Scrub
Member # 4374

Member Rated:
posted December 30, 2003 09:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 3afan2K3:
Are you crying over that one celebration?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I missed the game can somebody fill me in on what happened? On Tech's last TD,(after the game was well in hand), most of the offense got confused and thought they were in the NFL, got in a circle in the endzone, tossed the ball in the air (as if it were a bomb), when the ball hits the ground, they all fall backwards (as if they are blown up).....I hope this explains it well enough :o

[punt]

TT athletics is a disgrace to the Big 12. They need to be booted. The hiring of BK was despicable now the antics in the Houston Bowl. Apparently no one has the men's athletics under any control. I recently read that the Naval Academy is ranked 5th as the most difficult school to get into. They deserve respect because of their strong academic/athletic program, not to mention those young men will be the military leaders of our country in a few years. TT alum needs to put lots of pressure on the Pres, although he wanted BK there so I guess we shouldn't expect much.

[vet93]

This incident is really a sore spot with me because of all the apologies that I hear for this kind of behavior (not so much on this board). I get tired of hearing that they are so young and that we all make mistakes. True, we all make mistakes, but there is a difference between excitement after making a big play and a choreographed celebration (read premeditated, planned). The bigger picture is that all of these celebrations, tauntings, monkey dances, smack talk, unwillingness to shake hands, etc...are a trend in our society of people moving toward their base nature or the lowest form of civil interaction. Increasingly we see good sportsmanship, kindness, decency thrown out of the window and replaced by a ME attitude that has one purpose...to draw attention to one's self (selves) even at the expense of others (teamates or opponents). I don't buy into the notion that teenagers and young adults can't practice self control. Most players have done it in the past and many are doing it now. The problem is that our parents, administrators, communities, schools and coaches are not holding our young people to a higher standard. And, yes the coaches should be held responsible. Coaches set the tone and bad behavior can be eliminated if the consequences are known to the team and enforced when team rules on conduct are broken. How base are we going to let our culture drop to? At what point are we going to look around and see how this slippery slope of apologizing for bad behavior and poor sportsmanship is undermining the character of our young people? For those who say this is an isolated incident...I ask you to think about all of the cases of bad behavior that we have discussed within the past 3 weeks on this board and others). It is time that we start expecting more from not only ourselves, but of others as well (including our teamates, players, kids etc....).

[Jacket2000]

zippy:

VERNONLION#1
Scrub
Member # 4374

Member Rated:
posted December 30, 2003 09:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 3afan2K3:
Are you crying over that one celebration?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I missed the game can somebody fill me in on what happened? On Tech's last TD,(after the game was well in hand), most of the offense got confused and thought they were in the NFL, got in a circle in the endzone, tossed the ball in the air (as if it were a bomb), when the ball hits the ground, they all fall backwards (as if they are blown up).....I hope this explains it well enough :o Let's not forget about the flea flicker with 3 minutes left and a 30-14 lead, and still running plays outta the shotgun with 40 seconds left and a 37-14 lead.
J2K

[turbostud]

Let's not forget about the flea flicker with 3 minutes left and a 30-14 lead, and still running plays outta the shotgun with 40 seconds left and a 37-14 lead.
J2K I didnt see the game but it sounds like NFL scouts must have been on hand to watch the BJ Symons show.

[husker_football_fan]

Were any of you there? The bowl game treated Texas Tech like they were not even there. I was sick of seeing navy everything from pre-game were half the school got to walk on the field and then, they played this five min. intro just for navy not tech and every tv timeout on the big screens guess what more and more navy, not join the navy it was about navy football it made me sick to be a Big 12 fan. The celebration was fun, and for all of you who werent there, please shut up. They had a great year, and got no respect by the Houston bowl but they got the trophy. I respect the navy and what they do, but when it comes to a bowl game it should be fair and it was not, nobody gave a crap about Texas Tech, instead of being mad about the celbration, how about being mad about how many tax dollars it takes to get 3,000+ navy students from Maryland to Houston. It is the last game for these kids this year and they put on a good show. I didnt see any navy fans mad afterwords. It is all of you who have nothing better to talk about, who complain about everything. Good job Tech, Good D, Huskers, Way to choke tu.

[vet93]

First of all...you don't have to be somewhere to recognize poor sportsmanship. Secondly...did Navy have anything to do with what the Houston Bowl was trying to promote? Did the boys on the field talk to the sponsors of the Houston Bowl and tell them they weren't coming unless Navy got all of the press? Tech had scoreboard...they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were a superior team...why couldn't they just let it go at that?


husker_football_fan:
Were any of you there? The bowl game treated Texas Tech like they were not even there. I was sick of seeing navy everything from pre-game were half the school got to walk on the field and then, they played this five min. intro just for navy not tech and every tv timeout on the big screens guess what more and more navy, not join the navy it was about navy football it made me sick to be a Big 12 fan. The celebration was fun, and for all of you who werent there, please shut up. They had a great year, and got no respect by the Houston bowl but they got the trophy. I respect the navy and what they do, but when it comes to a bowl game it should be fair and it was not, nobody gave a crap about Texas Tech, instead of being mad about the celbration, how about being mad about how many tax dollars it takes to get 3,000+ navy students from Maryland to Houston. It is the last game for these kids this year and they put on a good show. I didnt see any navy fans mad afterwords. It is all of you who have nothing better to talk about, who complain about everything. Good job Tech, Good D, Huskers, Way to choke tu.

[lobo12]

tech isnt the only team that does things like this. teams all over the country do it. they were just kids out there having fun

[sinton66]

Just because they aren't the only ones doing it, doesn't excuse it. That falls within Vet93's point perfectly. The more society tolerates, the worse it's going to get. I don't blame just the coaches and players, I blame you, the fans. If you put up with this garbage, it will continue and it will get worse.

[kaorder1999]

sinton66:
Just because they aren't the only ones doing it, doesn't excuse it. That falls within Vet93's point perfectly. The more society tolerates, the worse it's going to get. I don't blame just the coaches and players, I blame you, the fans. If you put up with this garbage, it will continue and it will get worse.amen

[BigDog]

This crap is all in the coaches hands! You would never see a Cowboy attempt any of this crap because their coach (Parcels)does not have to say a thing! The Cowboys know exactly where the coach stands on this issue without ever saying a thing. Remember Hollywood Henderson from Landy's days!

[sinton66]

Another Cowboy example is Golden Richards. He was a talented receiver that got his walking papers for only a hint of misconduct off the field.
The Texas Rangers fired one of the best pitchers they ever acquired, Bert Blyleven, back in the seventies for flipping the bird at a television camera in the Rangers dugout.
There is no excuse for unsportsmanlike behavior, not in professional athletics and certainly not in amateur athletics, and in particular, not in front of TV cameras.
Lack of any style should never be considered a "style".

[husker_football_fan]

HEY OLD PEOPLE, it is fun, fun to do fun to watch, we had huge Navy fans that thought it was funny sitting right in front of us. Nobody got upset. Maybe we should thank Tech for winning a bowl the other four bowl bound Texas team didnt get in done. Say what you want, they won. I think that maybe most of yalls problems. The rest of the teams in the state lost or didn't even get in a bowl. Endzone celebrations are part of the game. Go watch ESPN Classic if you don't enjoy this kind of football.

[Pudlugger]

When we have our own soldiers getting blown up by real bombs in Iraq it is in very poor taste to make light of it! I bet those Navy folks didn't think it was so funny. Showboating is a pernicous element in professional sports and it is filtering down into high school athletics more and more. I have been told by some on this board who say they coach on one of these offending teams that it is necessary to allow this behavior in order to motivate and win the respect of their players. What hogwash!

<small>[ January 01, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Pudlugger ]</small>

[cubs]

The antics in the end zone are not what I would have been upset about - I'm with Jacket 2000 - let's address the game well in hand issue and play calling with 40 seconds left - now THAT was disrespectful! Sounds familiare - unfortunately - seen it happen in high school, too. What a shame.

[bearcat1]

husker_football_fan:
HEY OLD PEOPLE, it is fun, fun to do fun to watch, we had huge Navy fans that thought it was funny sitting right in front of us. Nobody got upset. Maybe we should thank Tech for winning a bowl the other four bowl bound Texas team didnt get in done. Say what you want, they won. I think that maybe most of yalls problems. The rest of the teams in the state lost or didn't even get in a bowl. Endzone celebrations are part of the game. Go watch ESPN Classic if you don't enjoy this kind of football.LOL yes, us OLD people don't like disrespect and poor taste. :rolleyes:
bc

[sinton66]

Endzone celebrations are NOT a part of the amateur game. The NCAA and UIL both prohibit excessive celebration, and Tech should have been penalized for the act. ANYBODY that says endzone celebrations are a part of the game is simply a part of the problem. And, I don't care whether husker_fan thinks I'm old or not. Rules are rules.

[slpybear the bullfan]

This will always be a big controversey until it is outlawed. Period.

It is just like fighting in Pro Hockey. Everyone says they hate it. They have penalties for it. But if they were serious then they would make the penalties so harsh the players would be fools to do it.

You know why that isn't done?

Because everyone says it is bad for the sport, but then love to watch the fight when it breaks out.

Same thing with celebrations in football, crazy dunks in basketball... Everyone will talk about how crazy it makes them, but very, very few coaches or owners will actually do anything to stop it. It brings waaaayyyy too much good pub to the team.

Do you really think any player will be banned from his or her sport for celbrating? Because that is the ONLY way you can ever stop celebrations during games. The ONLY way.

Personally, I don't have a problem with an athelete at whatever level getting excited about making a big play. I do have a problem when he does something out of context with his sport... For example... Catch a touchdown pass... Sure, go high five your QB on your way to the sideline. Smack talk the DB? No way.

Or hit a home run... Trot around the bases after watching it? Sure. Point and mouth at the pitcher while doing it? No way.

It is a hard to describe line as to what the "context" of a proper celebration is to me. The dunk is awesome... hanging from the rim and shouting like an angry Bull... Idiotic.

Oh well... What really drives me nutty is the athelete who celebrates the mundane, mediocre play... like a DL who makes a good tackle at the LOS... you did your job. It doesn't require a dance.

Slpybear

PS - (yeah, my favorite celebration is the classy nonchalance of just walking back to the huddle A La Walt G.)

[husker_football_fan]

First off with the size and speed and money caught up in College Sports it is hard to call these kids amatures. None of you would have gave a crap if they did it to Nebraska or Colordo. But oh no dont do it to Navy! I had to pay money for the Navy Bowl, not the Houston Bowl. Sad to be in Houston TEXAS were most of the fans are from and get to see the Navy show, with their cadets and commercials all game. As for the play calls, they were trying to get B.J. 500 yards passing, they got 497. Nobody says anything when Navy ran the score up on Army two years in a row. And no one goes bowl crazy when the Air Force play in bowl games all the time. But suddenly a dispicable program gets in a bowl and Texas Tech is supposed treat them as if they were playing checkers. It is football, a rough sport that emotions run high in. sinton66 can cry all day but you nor anyone will stop celebration, your apart of a bigger problem, your one of the many idiots that have nothing better to do with your day, than find something else to cry about.

[vet93]

Husker...You are out of line calling Sinton66 an idiot. Just because a person disagrees with your point of view does not make them an idiot. I would wager that Sinton66's view represents the majority opinion on this board. Obviously, you have missed the overriding direction that this post has taken. What was seen at the Tech game was only a symptom of a larger problem. When the values of Sportsmanship and decency go by the wayside then we are on a slippery slope of behavior on and off of the field deteriorating to where the bad behavior overshadows the game itself. With the affect that athletics has on our society it also will harm our collective sense of decency when kids all over see bad behavior and want to repeat it on their playing fields in high school and below (it is already happening). Sure...have fun...but you can have fun and still not insult opposing coaches, fans and players. You can have fun and not make yourself look like a showboating egomaniac. And what does it say about Tech's coaches when their overriding concern was to get someone a useless stat. And to answer your question...I think that most of us would have been upset if Nebraska was getting killed and Tech did the same thing to them. The irony of this whole argument is that many of the young people who have already been affected by this trend will see nothing wrong with the actions and behaviors that we have been talking about...they have already been brainwashed into the mentality that the "end justifies the means" after all....who cares...as long as you win and rub your Opponent's face in it. Husker...your attitude and opinion on this subject does nothing but prove my point. This trend may be inevitable and a sign of our "modern" society, but it doesn't make it right and decent people don't have to like it.


husker_football_fan:
First off with the size and speed and money caught up in College Sports it is hard to call these kids amatures. None of you would have gave a crap if they did it to Nebraska or Colordo. But oh no dont do it to Navy! I had to pay money for the Navy Bowl, not the Houston Bowl. Sad to be in Houston TEXAS were most of the fans are from and get to see the Navy show, with their cadets and commercials all game. As for the play calls, they were trying to get B.J. 500 yards passing, they got 497. Nobody says anything when Navy ran the score up on Army two years in a row. And no one goes bowl crazy when the Air Force play in bowl games all the time. But suddenly a dispicable program gets in a bowl and Texas Tech is supposed treat them as if they were playing checkers. It is football, a rough sport that emotions run high in. sinton66 can cry all day but you nor anyone will stop celebration, your apart of a bigger problem, your one of the many idiots that have nothing better to do with your day, than find something else to cry about.

[sinton66]

You could not be more wrong Husker. I would have been angry if Tech had done the same thing to A&M, Nebraska, K State or anyone else. These celebrations are nothing more than "look at me" self-gratification statements. Football is a team sport. It is also an American Institution founded upon fair play and good sportsmanship.

Even when Dallas was winning Super Bowls under Jimmy Johnson, I would wince everytime their "star" receiver, Michael Irvin would get the ball because I just knew he would do his little act if it went for a first down. Think about what became of Michael Irvin and maybe you'll see what this sort of self-gratification can lead to. If you are a great player, there should never be any need to remind anyone of that fact. It will be perfectly apparent. Look at the case of the great Bob Lilly. This man made fantastic plays practically everytime he took the field. I watched him for many years, and never once saw him do anything but quietly get up and walk back to the huddle. Think about most of the people in the Hall of Fame. How many of those can you name that were self gratifiers?

[GWOOD]

Jacket2000,

If you are a true red and black Red Raider fan, you should hang in there with those Red Raiders. I don't like Mike Leach either. Every year his teams receive more and more personal fouls. And this is not the first time this year the Red Raiders have been penalized for celebration. I have seen it two other times as well. My fear is that the Red Raiders are becoming a "thug" team. Thank goodness for class acts like Wes Welker and BJ Symons.

I love the offense. I love the success in bowl games..finally. But, I hate the thug mentality and I don't care for Mike Leach. But I will always be a Red Raider.

[husker_football_fan]

sinton66 M. Irvins career ended because of a neck injury. Where do you draw the line? Are you supposed to score, walk to the sideline and not enjoy a touchdown. What about the Lambeau Leap and the Mile High Salute, are those ok? I think they are great, the fans love them. The cell phone call was funny but maybe to far ($50,000 dollars later). Maybe they shouldn't pray in the endzone either. To sit in the Houston Texans club level is $275 a ticket, upper deck is still $70 bucks. Fans want a show, if you don't like it, dont watch it. Texas Tech had to kick off from the 10 yard line they got their penalty. How come no one is happy that they got the job done, represented our state and won the bowl game.

[sinton66]

Husker, there is not a single one of us that said we weren't happy they won. What we are saying is that we aren't happy with the way they acted, plain and simple. Michael Irvin ended his career because of repeated drug problems, don't kid yourself into believing it was anything else. The point is that's exactly where self-gratification leads. No one's saying a player can't get a "high five" from a teammate for a great play. No one's saying a player can't be happy with what he's done. All I'm saying is the truly great players feel no need for any of this. Did you ever see Walter Payton do a monkey dance after scoring a TD? Did you ever see Emmitt Smith do it? Did you ever see Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, or Terry Bradshaw do a monkey dance? No, you didn't, why is that? Because they never felt the need to showboat. They also never were arrested for sexual assault, drug problems, and various other things. Is there a pattern here? You bet there is.

[Pudlugger]

vet93:
Husker...You are out of line calling Sinton66 an idiot. Just because a person disagrees with your point of view does not make them an idiot. I would wager that Sinton66's view represents the majority opinion on this board. Obviously, you have missed the overriding direction that this post has taken. What was seen at the Tech game was only a symptom of a larger problem. When the values of Sportsmanship and decency go by the wayside then we are on a slippery slope of behavior on and off of the field deteriorating to where the bad behavior overshadows the game itself. With the affect that athletics has on our society it also will harm our collective sense of decency when kids all over see bad behavior and want to repeat it on their playing fields in high school and below (it is already happening). Sure...have fun...but you can have fun and still not insult opposing coaches, fans and players. You can have fun and not make yourself look like a showboating egomaniac. And what does it say about Tech's coaches when their overriding concern was to get someone a useless stat. And to answer your question...I think that most of us would have been upset if Nebraska was getting killed and Tech did the same thing to them. The irony of this whole argument is that many of the young people who have already been affected by this trend will see nothing wrong with the actions and behaviors that we have been talking about...they have already been brainwashed into the mentality that the "end justifies the means" after all....who cares...as long as you win and rub your Opponent's face in it. Husker...your attitude and opinion on this subject does nothing but prove my point. This trend may be inevitable and a sign of our "modern" society, but it doesn't make it right and decent people don't have to like it.


husker_football_fan:
First off with the size and speed and money caught up in College Sports it is hard to call these kids amatures. None of you would have gave a crap if they did it to Nebraska or Colordo. But oh no dont do it to Navy! I had to pay money for the Navy Bowl, not the Houston Bowl. Sad to be in Houston TEXAS were most of the fans are from and get to see the Navy show, with their cadets and commercials all game. As for the play calls, they were trying to get B.J. 500 yards passing, they got 497. Nobody says anything when Navy ran the score up on Army two years in a row. And no one goes bowl crazy when the Air Force play in bowl games all the time. But suddenly a dispicable program gets in a bowl and Texas Tech is supposed treat them as if they were playing checkers. It is football, a rough sport that emotions run high in. sinton66 can cry all day but you nor anyone will stop celebration, your apart of a bigger problem, your one of the many idiots that have nothing better to do with your day, than find something else to cry about.Vet93 you are soooo right! And articulate too!

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Pudlugger ]</small>

[Bandera YaYa]

You told it straight, Vet93...and anyone that sees it any other way IS an idiot, IMHO. I don't watch the Pros because of just this reason....too many "look at me's" in the game....too many show offs and too many "I am God"'s....can't stand to see overpaid thugs act like they are IT....but just my opinion........and don't even get me started on the likes of Michael Irvin!!!!!!!!!UGH!! :mad:

[Bestdamsportsshowperiod]

what about the Hawaii team against Houston Cougs. That bullshit team from Hawaii are nothing but thugs. I spent some time there in the military and you talk about some racist bastards. Those jap-somoan-portugese island mofos are ignorant. They think they are tough but get to the mainland and they cant hang. I say they should shut that damn bowl game down. Hell i think only 5000 people show up for the pro bowl.

[cubs]

Let's see - since we're on the subject of disrespect and the Navy - I must add this one. Was in a funeral procession in Fort Worth for a very dear friend yesterday. Going down White Settlement Road toward Greenwood Cemetery and a "Navy Mom" in a black Trailblazer pulls out from a side street into the procession a couple of cars ahead of us. Motorcycle policeman speeds up directs her to pull to the side of the road - she does and as soon as he's gone she pulls back in about 3 cars back and then makes a U-turn at her earliest convenience. She really represented her son or daughter well - hopefully they've learned better since they've been in the armed forces - cause I'm betting she didn't teach them. Compared to this - end zone celebrations are really very trivial matters - just my opinion.

[BHS#1]

Most of Yall are just mad because UT Lost and Tech didn't. And Didn't Vince Young do the UT sign to the crowd. a lot of teams have some one who will acasonaly celebrate in the endzone. Heck even highschool students do it Llano lost to liberty Hill because of it. If they want to stop it they need to start penalizing the NFL players to because all the highschool and college players watch there favorite player go out there and do the Funky Chicken or something in the endzone every sunday.

<small>[ January 03, 2004, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: BHS#1 ]</small>

[Knightmoon]

It was a celebration. I don't think any of the players intended for it to go as far as it did. The announcers of that program absolutely sucked. They are the ones that made it such a big deal.People it was a bowl game on national TV. I guess Texas is the only team allowed to celebrate and have a good time. Oh wait, they don't have anything to celebrate. It was a bad decision, no doubt, but get over it. It was not intended to offend anyone.

[sinton66]

I may be an old fashioned fuddy-duddy, But I will assure you, I will be offended everytime amateur atheletes engage in this sort of stuff, and especially when they are highschoolers. There is no excuse for it. And yes, I believe that the pros should be penalized for it also. They won't be, and there's nothing I can do about that except gripe. I will always believe that it is shameful. It is simply a question of class.

No one said anything about Texas losing and Tech winning except those of you trying to excuse this behavior. I'm happy Tech won, good for them. But, as far as I'm concerned, they spoiled the victory with their antics and made me ashamed of the way they acted on National TV. Like Jacket, and the others here, I won't soon forget that.

[callandraise]

I was among the many who were disappointed in the anics of the Tech Players in that game. I once heard a coach tell his players "if you happen to get in the endzone act like you've been there before" somebody needs to tell the Tech players that.

[Brahma73]

vet93:
This incident is really a sore spot with me because of all the apologies that I hear for this kind of behavior (not so much on this board). I get tired of hearing that they are so young and that we all make mistakes. True, we all make mistakes, but there is a difference between excitement after making a big play and a choreographed celebration (read premeditated, planned). The bigger picture is that all of these celebrations, tauntings, monkey dances, smack talk, unwillingness to shake hands, etc...are a trend in our society of people moving toward their base nature or the lowest form of civil interaction. Increasingly we see good sportsmanship, kindness, decency thrown out of the window and replaced by a ME attitude that has one purpose...to draw attention to one's self (selves) even at the expense of others (teamates or opponents). I don't buy into the notion that teenagers and young adults can't practice self control. Most players have done it in the past and many are doing it now. The problem is that our parents, administrators, communities, schools and coaches are not holding our young people to a higher standard. And, yes the coaches should be held responsible. Coaches set the tone and bad behavior can be eliminated if the consequences are known to the team and enforced when team rules on conduct are broken. How base are we going to let our culture drop to? At what point are we going to look around and see how this slippery slope of apologizing for bad behavior and poor sportsmanship is undermining the character of our young people? For those who say this is an isolated incident...I ask you to think about all of the cases of bad behavior that we have discussed within the past 3 weeks on this board and others). It is time that we start expecting more from not only ourselves, but of others as well (including our teamates, players, kids etc....).Wow! Now this is an awesome post. I think this should have been entered as a new topic. It covers a problem much bigger than just the Houston Bowl. Kudos, Vet93!!! wink