Stats vs Final Score Argument

[Bullaholic]

Where do you come down on the stats vs final score argument?

Sometimes in discussions fans will declare that because their team won on the scoreboard, that their team was the better that night, or maybe any night. The losers sometime argue, if they have better stats, that they were the better team but just lost on the scoreboard.

[LH Panther Mom]

Scoreboard counts in the long run, stats do not.

ex: A couple of years ago, the argument was thrown out about our "weak" defense allowing Taylor to rack up roughly 350 yards on us. I had to point out that we only "allowed" that 350 yards to turn into 10 points. :D

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Scoreboard counts in the long run, stats do not.

ex: A couple of years ago, the argument was thrown out about our "weak" defense allowing Taylor to rack up roughly 350 yards on us. I had to point out that we only "allowed" that 350 yards to turn into 10 points. :D

No doubt the winner is the best team outright, but I wonder if a consensus of neutral fans believes that the loser outplayed the winner by a wide margin, if the winner still feels that they were the better team in their hearts.

[waterboy]

The final score is the one thing that counts most, regardless of any statistical disparity. I've seen a few times where one team dominated another statistically, but lost on the scoreboard. One time in particular that I remember this happening was in the playoffs in 1984. A team had won in total yardage 278-68 and first downs 16-4, a totally dominating performance, but lost on the scoreboard 12-8 on 2 punt returns for TDs. Yes, it leaves you feeling like the better team lost, but that's the breaks. You'll have trouble convincing the winning team that the better team lost, though.

[solocam]

SCOREBOARD

[charlesrixey]

the game is a team game

if a team wins 12-8 on two punt returns, it's still up to the other team to score-if the defense holds, that sounds like a win to me

you don't always have to win with great offense or defense, as long as the sum of all of your parts is greater than the other team

doesn't matter whether the difference is one play or 40 points, a team still has to win or lose to win or lose

some will argue that a team 'gave it away' or that officials played a part-but the only legit argument for a better team losing is if a clear violation of officiating happens-which is hard to prove anyway

scoreboard counts

[waterboy]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
the game is a team game

if a team wins 12-8 on two punt returns, it's still up to the other team to score-if the defense holds, that sounds like a win to me

you don't always have to win with great offense or defense, as long as the sum of all of your parts is greater than the other team

doesn't matter whether the difference is one play or 40 points, a team still has to win or lose to win or lose

some will argue that a team 'gave it away' or that officials played a part-but the only legit argument for a better team losing is if a clear violation of officiating happens-which is hard to prove anyway

scoreboard counts
That's exactly what I was saying. The only thing that matters in a team sport is the FINAL score. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter.

[TigerFan51]

Originally posted by waterboy
That's exactly what I was saying. The only thing that matters in a team sport is the FINAL score. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter.

I agree...stats on a piece of paper are much like registration papers on a horse...the paper doesn't mean the horse is any good and you sure can't RIDE the registration papers either!

Scoreboard...

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I would much rather win in both locations...then you proved that you were the better team. I've also seen games where the stats were skewed because the team that won always played on a short field. Bottom line, I would much rather hear "Hello Win Column" than say "we could have won".

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Scoreboard counts in the long run, stats do not.

ex: A couple of years ago, the argument was thrown out about our "weak" defense allowing Taylor to rack up roughly 350 yards on us. I had to point out that we only "allowed" that 350 yards to turn into 10 points. :D
Let's just clarify and come to the truth.

Liberty Hill is never the better team. The whole town practices witch craft. Look at that offense. Who's ever heard of a disappearing football?

It's wicca in Liberty Hill. Not football! :eek:

Happy Early Halloween!

[Phil C]

Final scoreboard is what I want. Especially now that they have OT in high school and college. Bravo.

[raider red 2000]

yesterday i saw the texans win 57 minutes...and lost 1 inportant stat 3 times...and then lost the only stat that realy matters.

the score

[Necks_Fan]

What if a team loses BIG, say 25 points, but actually outgained the other team?


Turnovers in the red zone repeatedly has cost many teams games, when in actuality, other than those few turnovers was the better team, but lost decisively on the scoreboard.


I want to use WC as an example.

Our Special teams unit is the weakest part of our team. It seems like EVERY week our opponent starts around mid-field while we perpetually start around our own 20. We have not won a field position battle all year and have continually played teams to the wire despite them having a huge advantage. I think, that one aspect is keeping them from being a great team and gaining alot more respect. It's difficult to watch our D try and hold people when they start around the 50 or in our territory, yet they still do it.


We lost to Brazosport in the above mentioned scenario.... by 26 points, but outgained them.We lost to Foster, but outgained them..... we lost to EC... I don;t know if we outgained them, but their worst field position of the game was their own 40.... and we held them to 21... they are a UNDEFEATED 4A team...

We are a good ball club, bet we have lost some games because we shoot ourselves in the foot. Some will say the better team won, but man, it's hard to say that if you were at those games.

JMO.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
What if a team loses BIG, say 25 points, but actually outgained the other team?


Turnovers in the red zone repeatedly has cost many teams games, when in actuality, other than those few turnovers was the better team, but lost decisively on the scoreboard.
Turnovers are part of the game. Maybe the other team forced some of them? Maybe the other team capitalized on them? So, it sounds like the "other team" was better on that night, since they did what was needed to win.

Yards gained do not always mean points on the board! (See my above example....)

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Turnovers are part of the game. Maybe the other team forced some of them? Maybe the other team capitalized on them? So, it sounds like the "other team" was better on that night, since they did what was needed to win.

Yards gained do not always mean points on the board! (See my above example....) That's what I'm saying.... Turnovers hurt, but even more so, when they get pick6'd or are in the others teams 5 yd line....


I have seen WC drive 85 yds and turn the ball over on the 5 yd line.... I have seen us stop a team and get the ball, then throw a pick6....


It's like, other than 1 or 2 plays, WC has outplayedc their opponents but have nothing to show for it.



It's difficult to say the better team won when they got outplayed all night except 1 or 2 plays..... all the credit in the world to the other team for forcing the turnovers, but man.


I think there are DEFINITELY situations when the scoreboard is VERY misleading.

ie., WC 7- Bport 33....... That was difficult to watch.

Also, Navasota 35- Sealy 0..... Navasota could have put 60 on Sealy if their coach would have wanted to.

Yes, the other team forced a turnover, but sometimes those are 14 point swings..... It's tough.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
What if a team loses BIG, say 25 points, but actually outgained the other team?

Originally posted by Necks_Fan
It's like, other than 1 or 2 plays, WC has outplayedc their opponents but have nothing to show for it.

You know, you MIGHT have an argument if you were talking about a close game. But 25 points isn't anywhere near 1-2 plays difference, it's pretty close to a spanking. :doh:

[sinton66]

Regardless of how you rationalize it, it's the final score that gets recorded.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You know, you MIGHT have an argument if you were talking about a close game. But 25 points isn't anywhere near 1-2 plays difference, it's pretty close to a spanking. :doh:
When 1 of those is a pick6 and a 14 pt swing there is a dramatic change in the scoreboard....

Wc outgained Bport that game....


I wasn't neccesarily referring to THAT game when I made the 1 to 2 play comment....


More like the game when we lost to EC by 2 points..... or when we had a tie ball game against foster and threw a pick6.....


We didn't neccesarily "outplay" EC, but we played a hell of a game against a dang good 4a team.... They just found a way to win that one...

[sinfan75]

Scoring more points than the other team is all that matters no matter how you do it.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by sinfan75
Scoring more points than the other team is all that matters no matter how you do it. This is true, and honestly, it's tough to lose, but I think those losses made the Necks a better team.


Since they lost, they now know just how well they have to play to win. The boys played real hard and still lost. I think that was a reality check for them against EC.

I can;t wait to see the game after our bye week. Hopefully things turn out well.

[sinfan75]

Seen Sinton on both ends of this. Dominate and lose. Get dominated and win.

[WOS1]

The scoreboard is the only thing that matters. Stats are for losers. You never hear the winner say, "we outgained them everywhere INCLUDING the scoreboard", it's always, "everywhere BUT the scoreboard" when they've lost.

[Necks_Fan]

Originally posted by WOS1
Stats are for losers. Don't tell that to your WO-S buddy... Ole 87 likes stats... ;)