Turf Advantage For "Speed" Teams? [Archive]

Bullaholic

10-06-2008, 09:29 AM

Is it still the consensus that turf favors the team with speed? Is the advantage great enough to really make a difference?

Won't the speed differential between two teams be the same on grass or turf---i.e, doesn't EVERYBODY, including the slower team run faster on turf?

Sweetwater Red

10-06-2008, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Is it still the consensus that turf favors the team with speed? Is the advantage great enough to really make a difference?

Won't the speed differential between two teams be the same on grass or turf---i.e, doesn't EVERYBODY, including the slower team run faster on turf?

I'll answer this one. Every one of Sweetwater's regular
season games has and will be played on turf. Some say we're
slow, yet we are 4-1. My guess would be turf vs. grass is a
non-issue.:thinking:

scrub c

10-06-2008, 10:54 AM

I think the "new style" turf is not as much of a speed enhancer as the old astroturf style was.

So I would say, no real advantage/disadvantage.

swstangs001

10-06-2008, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Is it still the consensus that turf favors the team with speed? Is the advantage great enough to really make a difference?

Won't the speed differential between two teams be the same on grass or turf---i.e, doesn't EVERYBODY, including the slower team run faster on turf?

when sweetwater played snyder in the playoffs they never wanted to play us on turf, I guess they thought it would help us out since we did have some 4.3 4.4 guys

Bullaholic

10-06-2008, 11:14 AM

DaHop72

10-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Silverback 04

10-06-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by swstangs001
when sweetwater played snyder in the playoffs they never wanted to play us on turf, I guess they thought it would help us out since we did have some 4.3 4.4 guys

There are no 4.3 guys in high school except in very very rare exceptions. Fast high school kids are at best usually 4.5 or higher. But i'd say not much advantage to turf for speed. The field is the same for everybody, unless you add 2" of mud to it.

IHStangFan

10-06-2008, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Is it still the consensus that turf favors the team with speed? Is the advantage great enough to really make a difference?

Won't the speed differential between two teams be the same on grass or turf---i.e, doesn't EVERYBODY, including the slower team run faster on turf? I've always kinda thought the same on this issue.....what difference does the surface they are playing on make? Wouldn't a team w/ a speed advantage be faster on any surface...whether it be turf, grass, the moon? So...moot issue/point? I think so.

WOS1

10-06-2008, 01:04 PM

I think it has mire to do with the condition of the field. Grass fields could have been watered heavily or the grass could be high, which I believe favors the slower teams. If the grass field is cut and in good shape, I agree it doesn't make a difference.

TigerFan51

10-06-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Silverback 04
Originally posted by swstangs001
when sweetwater played snyder in the playoffs they never wanted to play us on turf, I guess they thought it would help us out since we did have some 4.3 4.4 guys

There are no 4.3 guys in high school except in very very rare exceptions. Fast high school kids are at best usually 4.5 or higher. But i'd say not much advantage to turf for speed. The field is the same for everybody, unless you add 2" of mud to it.

I agree. Our QB that graduated two years ago ran a 4.6 and he was fast as greased lightening. I'd like the names of the 4.3/4.4 players or the teams they played on. The proof is in the puddin'...

JR2004

10-06-2008, 01:23 PM

When it was astroturf it made a difference. The new artificial surfaces give no advantage to teams with superior speed in my opinion.

kaorder1999

10-06-2008, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by JR2004
When it was astroturf it made a difference. The new artificial surfaces give no advantage to teams with superior speed in my opinion.
i think the same...

headhunter

10-06-2008, 02:27 PM

There may be an advantage for a team that plays and practices regularly on turf to play a team that plays and practices on grass. However, most high school teams (especially in 3A) play on grass, therefore there is not really that much advantage.

Sometimes it is more mental than really a physical advantage. But there are some playes and teams that do not preform well on turf or vis versa.

venomous tat2

10-07-2008, 09:16 AM

The advantage with the new field turf is the climate in the early part of the season it is HOT ! you add 20 degrees to the temp and if the other team is not use to that heat it can have an impact
on them later in the game . Astro turf allowed quicker players to
accelerate a lot faster because of better traction but on the flip side you had more turf toe and ankle injuries with astro turf IMO .

WOS1

10-07-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by venomous tat2
you had more turf toe and ankle injuries with astro turf IMO .

... And blown ACL's.

kepdawg

10-07-2008, 04:08 PM

Well, I've heard of games where only one of the teams had to play in the rain, so I guess if only one of the teams can play on turf they might have an advantage!

RattlerDude

10-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Silverback 04
Originally posted by swstangs001
when sweetwater played snyder in the playoffs they never wanted to play us on turf, I guess they thought it would help us out since we did have some 4.3 4.4 guys

There are no 4.3 guys in high school except in very very rare exceptions. Fast high school kids are at best usually 4.5 or higher. But i'd say not much advantage to turf for speed. The field is the same for everybody, unless you add 2" of mud to it.

Dude where did you go to school at? We have at least four people that run a forty below 4.5?

And no turf is no advantage, because like many others stated previously, both teams are playing on the same surface.

lakers

10-07-2008, 05:21 PM

NastySlot

10-07-2008, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by lakers
I guess he never say Skye Green or Joseph Banyard...

Those boys were fast!!!!!!!!

4.3 fast or 4.5 fast?

lakers

10-07-2008, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by NastySlot
4.3 fast or 4.5 fast?

IDk about Banyard but Skye Green pretty sure. He won state in the 100m dash his senior year. The kid had wings tattooed on his back, haha. He is now a sprinter at Texas Tech(or at least he was last year)...

lakers

10-07-2008, 06:04 PM

Does anybody know what Kenneth Turner from Snyder runs in the 40?
I know he won the 100m last year as a Jr.

Emerson1

10-07-2008, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by JR2004
When it was astroturf it made a difference. The new artificial surfaces give no advantage to teams with superior speed in my opinion.
I would say that nicely kept grass would even be faster than the new turf. The new stuff is so thick and filled with the black pellets it's very soft.

LH Panther Mom

10-07-2008, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by NastySlot
4.3 fast or 4.5 fast?
Exactly. How many NFL guys run 4.3's? :thinking:

Silverback 04

10-07-2008, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by RattlerDude
Dude where did you go to school at? We have at least four people that run a forty below 4.5?

And no turf is no advantage, because like many others stated previously, both teams are playing on the same surface.

I said usually, knucklehead. If you wanted data to back it up I could, but it would take more effort than its worth to me. I'll just tell you that at the 2008 NFL combine there were 30 timed 40's among RB's. Only 12 were under 4.5. 50 WR's were timed and only 24 were under 4.5. These are the fastest athletes in the US running "correctly" timed sprints. I ain't talkin' about your Coach/English teacher, I'm talkin' about professional scouts that get paid big money to find out about true speed! So please don't tell me how fast your Rattlers are cause it just don't add up. That your little podunk town has 4 of the fastest 80 football players in the US running in it, I ain't gonna bite!

Silverback 04

10-07-2008, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Exactly. How many NFL guys run 4.3's? :thinking:

There was 1 time under 4.3 (4.24) at ast year's combine. East Carolina RB now with the Titans. Jammal Charles was the other RB under 4.4. 7 WR ran under 4.4 with the fastest being 4.36

LionKing

10-07-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by headhunter
There may be an advantage for a team that plays and practices regularly on turf to play a team that plays and practices on grass. However, most high school teams (especially in 3A) play on grass, therefore there is not really that much advantage.

Sometimes it is more mental than really a physical advantage. But there are some playes and teams that do not preform well on turf or vis versa. 5-6 years ago, the only 3A team I knew that had turf was Sweetwater, not sure now how many 3A teams have turf now, but all 6 teams in 2-3A have turf.

slingshot

10-07-2008, 09:37 PM

I'd bet a Dublin Dr. Pepper that Skye Green could run under 4.4... Dude ran a 10.25 best 100 m--he could flat scoot!

trojan37

10-07-2008, 10:02 PM

I watched a high school game on tv the other night in the DC area and one team had a running back that they said had a 4.25 40 time, in HIGH SCHOOL. Also taking a look at Texas Football in the 2008 top 300,

Eddie Foster(Senior), Colleyville Heritage - 4.3
Kenneth Turner(Senior), Snyder - 4.3
Justin Gilbert(Junior), Huntsville - 4.3
DaDa Brown(Junior), Tyler Lee - 4.3
Chris Parr(Junior), La Vega - 4.3

Other notables, and all sophomores,

Quandre Diggs, Angleton - 4.4
Daniel Lasco, The Woodlands - 4.4
Leroy Scott, South Houston - 4.4
Deandre Washington, Fort Bend Marshall - 4.4

Silverback 04

10-07-2008, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by trojan37
I watched a high school game on tv the other night in the DC area and one team had a running back that they said had a 4.25 40 time, in HIGH SCHOOL. Also taking a look at Texas Football in the 2008 top 300,

Eddie Foster(Senior), Colleyville Heritage - 4.3
Kenneth Turner(Senior), Snyder - 4.3
Justin Gilbert(Junior), Huntsville - 4.3
DaDa Brown(Junior), Tyler Lee - 4.3
Chris Parr(Junior), La Vega - 4.3

Other notables, and all sophomores,

Quandre Diggs, Angleton - 4.4
Daniel Lasco, The Woodlands - 4.4
Leroy Scott, South Houston - 4.4
Deandre Washington, Fort Bend Marshall - 4.4

Yes, I've seen that. All very impressive. But not real. Those times are usually posted by coaches and family members of the kids, designed to attract attention. If you have ever sat in a room with a D1 football recruiter and seen him go thru piles of video of supposed 4.3 guys only to see them look at the tape for 30 seconds and declare the kid nowhere near a true 4.5 and then deposit the tape in the trash, then you might understand. Additionally, when you say 4.3, is that a 4.31 or a 4.39. Big difference. And I'm not saying they (4.3) aren't out there, I'm just saying that they are very rare.

swstangs001

10-07-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Silverback 04
Originally posted by swstangs001
when sweetwater played snyder in the playoffs they never wanted to play us on turf, I guess they thought it would help us out since we did have some 4.3 4.4 guys

There are no 4.3 guys in high school except in very very rare exceptions. Fast high school kids are at best usually 4.5 or higher. But i'd say not much advantage to turf for speed. The field is the same for everybody, unless you add 2" of mud to it.

Skye Green 4.35 went to tech on a track scholarship
Joseph Banyard 4.4 went to TCU on a football scholarship before quitting

STANG RED

10-08-2008, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Silverback 04
Yes, I've seen that. All very impressive. But not real. Those times are usually posted by coaches and family members of the kids, designed to attract attention. If you have ever sat in a room with a D1 football recruiter and seen him go thru piles of video of supposed 4.3 guys only to see them look at the tape for 30 seconds and declare the kid nowhere near a true 4.5 and then deposit the tape in the trash, then you might understand. Additionally, when you say 4.3, is that a 4.31 or a 4.39. Big difference. And I'm not saying they (4.3) aren't out there, I'm just saying that they are very rare.

4.3s arent quiet as rare as you may think. But many of those boys that can do it are 5'5" and 140 soaking wet. Their not going to play college ball anyway.

nobogey72

10-08-2008, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
I'll answer this one. Every one of Sweetwater's regular
season games has and will be played on turf. Some say we're
slow, yet we are 4-1. My guess would be turf vs. grass is a
non-issue.:thinking: Anyone that thinks Sweetwater is slow, is misinformed. Now, I will agree that you Sweetwater POSTERS are "slow", but I don't see how field turf or grass has affected your mental capabilities.:D

nobogey72

10-08-2008, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by TigerFan51
I agree. Our QB that graduated two years ago ran a 4.6 and he was fast as greased lightening. I'd like the names of the 4.3/4.4 players or the teams they played on. The proof is in the puddin'...

Yeah, if you watch any of the NFL combine each year, the fastest of the fast run 4.3 +. I've seen alot of supposedly 4.3 guys not be able to run down a back that ran a 4.6.

Silverback 04

10-08-2008, 07:41 AM

swstangs001

10-08-2008, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by nobogey72
Anyone that thinks Sweetwater is slow, is misinformed. Now, I will agree that you Sweetwater POSTERS are "slow", but I don't see how field turf or grass has affected your mental capabilities.:D

sweetwaters not as fast as they used to be, they have some guys that have some quickness but not any true speed

IHStangFan

10-08-2008, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by nobogey72
Yeah, if you watch any of the NFL combine each year, the fastest of the fast run 4.3 +. I've seen alot of supposedly 4.3 guys not be able to run down a back that ran a 4.6. yup....hear all of the time about 4.3 guys.....truth is, there just aren't as many 4.3 guys out there as people like to talk about there is. I ran a legit 4.5 at one point in my life....and I was the fastest guy around my parts. (That would be in my unit at Ft. Bragg, NC, LOL...probably not saying much) 4.3's just aren't as common as most seem to think.

Emerson1

10-08-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Silverback 04
Yes, I've seen that. All very impressive. But not real. Those times are usually posted by coaches and family members of the kids, designed to attract attention. If you have ever sat in a room with a D1 football recruiter and seen him go thru piles of video of supposed 4.3 guys only to see them look at the tape for 30 seconds and declare the kid nowhere near a true 4.5 and then deposit the tape in the trash, then you might understand. Additionally, when you say 4.3, is that a 4.31 or a 4.39. Big difference. And I'm not saying they (4.3) aren't out there, I'm just saying that they are very rare. .
On DABRYAN BLANTON'S rivals.com HS profile, it has him listed as a 4.3

So if anyone in HS right now is running a true 4.3 I think it would be a very well known name

jason

10-08-2008, 01:11 PM

Emerson1

10-08-2008, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by jason
he was fast

didnt he win the big 12 indoor 40m title ??

if anybody had his kind of speed now, im sure we would all know about it......
2004 NCAA Indoor 60m champion; Two-time Big 12 Conference 100m champion; U.S. Junior men's 100m record holder.

jason

10-08-2008, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by slingshot
I'd bet a Dublin Dr. Pepper that Skye Green could run under 4.4... Dude ran a 10.25 best 100 m--he could flat scoot! he only ran 10.49 at the state meet....

i think the record (unless its been broken) was in 02, dabryan blanton ran 10.26

Silverback 04

10-08-2008, 01:29 PM

10.14 Henry Neal 1990. state record. Believe it is the national record as well.

Silverback 04

10-08-2008, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Emerson1
.
On DABRYAN BLANTON'S rivals.com HS profile, it has him listed as a 4.3

So if anyone in HS right now is running a true 4.3 I think it would be a very well known name

Again, Rivals information is generally posted by parents and some coaches. Take the guys height, weight, and 40 time, subtract 1 inch, 10 pounds, and 1 tenth off the 40 and it is fairly accurate. Not worth the paper its printed on. That doesn't mean he ain't fast. Any kid that runs at the Texas State track meet is definitely fast. There was a guy from the NFL that stated this week that RB Steve Slaton was on an entirely different level of speed than any thing he had previously had on his team, he ran a 4.4 at the Combine in Feb. Speed is relative to who is holding the stopwatch.

Silverback 04

10-08-2008, 01:49 PM

You are correct that Blanton does hold the 3A record for texas, still.

Necks_Fan

10-08-2008, 04:17 PM

Well, this thread makes me feel a little better about our team speed, or lack of.

Our fastest player probably runs in the 4.75 range.... we have a whole host in between 4.85 and 4.9 range.

They all say they are slow, but seem to be pretty quick on the field.

i know that in 07, we had some burners..... especially Jareth Edwards. That kid could move.Prolly around a 4.5 maybe a bit under at best.

headhunter

10-08-2008, 08:30 PM

Silverback 04, I agree with you 100%. Yes their are a few kids that can dip under the 4.3 mark and a few more that can get that 4.4 mark. But in reality most FAST backs in high school are around the 4.6 mark.

And seriously whoever was going by the times in Texas Football is just plain stupid. Those times are never real. When I was playing I really ran about a 4.8 to a 4.85 and I was in their as a 4.75, so get real people, their is also more than just plain speed. Players need instinct, vision, acceleration, and power. Ladaian Tomlinson was not the fastest back but he had the vision and the power and instinct. Speed isn't everything, but that always seems to be the first question everyone ask when you say you saw a good running back or defensive back. That is why D1 scouts know what to look for. If he has the ability to get faster they take a chance.

I will say their is probably less than 10 athletes in Texas high school that truly run under a 4.4