play calling

[Stangs325]

so i was wondering if Sweetwater was the only team that had horrible play calling and if there were other teams that play calling cost them the game

[wildstangs]

Get a degree. Become a coach. Then complain about play calling.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by wildstangs
Get a degree. Become a coach. Then complain about play calling.

Amen. Play calling is usually questioned after the play didn't work. Hindsight 20/20. You have 15 seconds to call the perfect play and hope the defense does what you think they will do. The kids EXECUTE the play that is called. Don't blame the play calling on the coach alone, share it with the offense who didn't execute (didn't block or dropped a pass or bad pass thrown or RB not following a block)) and the defense that made a play .

Either get behind your team and cheer them on as they do their best to improve and win, or DON'T.

[Stangs325]

Originally posted by Rocket
Amen. Play calling is usually questioned after the play didn't work. Hindsight 20/20. You have 15 seconds to call the perfect play and hope the defense does what you think they will do. The kids EXECUTE the play that is called. Don't blame the play calling on the coach alone, share it with the offense who didn't execute (didn't block or dropped a pass or bad pass thrown or RB not following a block)) and the defense that made a play .

Either get behind your team and cheer them on as they do their best to improve and win, or DON'T.


you know i completly understand what yall are saying and i couldnt agree more but yall didnt see the game

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Stangs325
so i was wondering if Sweetwater was the only team that had horrible play calling and if there were other teams that play calling cost them the game It baffles me when I see the Sweetwater folks griping about Kent Jackson. The guy has done nothing but win and has done so with class. He's brought glory and acclaim to your town and has enabled many young men to move on to the next level of competition. I just don't understand.

[Bubba-Joe]

Originally posted by Stangs325
you know i completly understand what yall are saying and i couldnt agree more but yall didnt see the game

AND YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED OR COACHED

YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF AND SWEETWATER LOOK FOOLISH

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by Bubba-Joe
AND YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED OR COACHED

YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF AND SWEETWATER LOOK FOOLISH It's okay Bubba Joe we all have a few that do that. :devil: :devil:

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
It baffles me when I see the Sweetwater folks griping about Kent Jackson. The guy has done nothing but win and has done so with class. He's brought glory and acclaim to your town and has enabled many young men to move on to the next level of competition. I just don't understand.

Go watch season after season after season of it and I'll promise you would understand. 3rd and 7, run a dive up the middle against a 9 man defensive front is not at all uncommon on several occasions during any given game. Any way you slice it, that is bad play calling. Now if that is by design to suck a defense in then you play action and burn them over the top for over commiting, that is a great call. Guess what, it never happens. Or if the defense is over commiting and selling out to stop the sweep or pitch (which we see very often), a reverse can burn them easily, and make them play honest afterwards. But do we ever see that? Nope not ever. So until you have seen enough of it to where you DO understand, you will continue to be baffled.

[headhunter]

I completely understand how sometimes you can become upset with play calling. As a fan if you are satisfied with just good season then I guess you can jump on the coaches side. However if you want to win a state championship and every year you come up short because of bad play calling or being conservative then you have every right to complain. I do not have any problem with giving a coach credit and I have no problem telling him when he is wrong. It doesn't matter what team we are talking about. Those coaches get paid to win and get paid to get the most out of their kids. We all expect a class act and a good attitude. What you should want is to win!!! Coaches choose to make a living by winning games. If they can not handle criticism then they need to find another profession.

[espn1]

Originally posted by Rocket
Amen. Play calling is usually questioned after the play didn't work. Hindsight 20/20. You have 15 seconds to call the perfect play and hope the defense does what you think they will do. The kids EXECUTE the play that is called. Don't blame the play calling on the coach alone, share it with the offense who didn't execute (didn't block or dropped a pass or bad pass thrown or RB not following a block)) and the defense that made a play .

Either get behind your team and cheer them on as they do their best to improve and win, or DON'T. Especially when you have a$30,000 Coach Calling the plays! 3A is what it is!

[solocam]

Our coach makes alot more than that :p

[JR2004]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Go watch season after season after season of it and I'll promise you would understand. 3rd and 7, run a dive up the middle against a 9 man defensive front is not at all uncommon on several occasions during any given game. Any way you slice it, that is bad play calling. Now if that is by design to suck a defense in then you play action and burn them over the top for over commiting, that is a great call. Guess what, it never happens. Or if the defense is over commiting and selling out to stop the sweep or pitch (which we see very often), a reverse can burn them easily, and make them play honest afterwards. But do we ever see that? Nope not ever. So until you have seen enough of it to where you DO understand, you will continue to be baffled.

I think you have every right to want to question what you see. You pay your money to go watch the game. Any coach worth his salt isn't going to care one way or the other what a fan might think. Any that do take it personally are in the wrong line of work.

Madison is my team. I sometimes get a good laugh out of what we do on one side of the ball. (And before anyone says it's just me there are several people on this board that have watched us over the last several years who have left games laughing at what we did on the field.) Whether we win or lose isn't really that significant to me. I'm just glad we aren't going 1-9 or 2-8 anymore and that it's gotten to the point where folks aren't content with 5 or 6 win seasons. That says a lot for the program and how well it's doing.

There is only one thing that's disheartening though and that's when you find out that coaches from your opponents find some of what your team does to be comical. That's happened far more often than I'd care to admit to, but oh well.

[Bubba-Joe]

Originally posted by headhunter
Those coaches get paid to win and get paid to get the most out of their kids. We all expect a class act and a good attitude. What you should want is to win!!! Coaches choose to make a living by winning games. If they can not handle criticism then they need to find another profession.

I promise you coaches do not get paid to win, if that was the case you would see a whole lot more of the recruiting, and other undesirable parts of human nature. Coaches get paid to teach, to change kids lives, to hopefully impact the student athletes that the come in contact with each of every day. The emotions that folks like you place on coaches are accepted as part of the job, just like the FACT that many fans EXPECT to win, coaches have just as much desire to win, but bottom line A TRUE COACHES JOB IS TO CHANGE LIVES, AND MOST OF THE TIME TO TAKE THE PLACE OF MALE ROLE MODEL THAT IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT WINNING AT WHATEVER THE COST. Yes coaches can handle the critism I wonder how many non coaches in the stands on friday night like you would be able to handle the same AMOUNT OF CRITICISM IN YOU CHOOSEN PROFESSION.
Bottom line either get into the profession, or please stop acting like you know more than you really do.

[espn1]

Originally posted by solocam
Our coach makes alot more than that :p I'm talking about assistants.

[espn1]

Originally posted by Bubba-Joe
I promise you coaches do not get paid to win, if that was the case you would see a whole lot more of the recruiting, and other undesirable parts of human nature. Coaches get paid to teach, to change kids lives, to hopefully impact the student athletes that the come in contact with each of every day. The emotions that folks like you place on coaches are accepted as part of the job, just like the FACT that many fans EXPECT to win, coaches have just as much desire to win, but bottom line A TRUE COACHES JOB IS TO CHANGE LIVES, AND MOST OF THE TIME TO TAKE THE PLACE OF MALE ROLE MODEL THAT IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT WINNING AT WHATEVER THE COST. Yes coaches can handle the critism I wonder how many non coaches in the stands on friday night like you would be able to handle the same AMOUNT OF CRITICISM IN YOU CHOOSEN PROFESSION.
Bottom line either get into the profession, or please stop acting like you know more than you really do.
That's crap! Football is the single largest revenue draw for any school. You can't hire just any good ole boy to do the job. I want somebody that can teach and win. I have plenty of people to invite over for Thanksgiving! This business! Give me a Headset!

[Bubba-Joe]

Originally posted by espn1
That's crap! Football is the single largest revenue draw for any school. You can't hire just any good ole boy to do the job. I want somebody that can teach and win. I have plenty of people to invite over for Thanksgiving! This business! Give me a Headset!

THEN GET A DEGREE AND APPLY FOR A JOB
SINCE WHEN DID FOOTBALL OR SPORTS AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL BECOME A MONEY MAKING VENTURE,
WHEN DID ANYTHING INVOLVED IN EDUCATION BECOME A MONEY MAKING VENTURE

THE PRODUCT OF SCHOOLS- PRIVATE OR PUBLIC IS THE STUDENT
SCHOOLS GIVEN THE JOB OF PRODUCING SUCCESSFULLY STUDENTS
NOT COLLEGE ATHLETES, NOT GETTING LITTLE JOHNNY OR SUSIE A SCHOLARSHIP

CRAP YOU GOT THE BUBBA HOT NOW
you can quote scores for the past 35 years and remember the plays from every scrimmage for the past 15 years
name every starting player for every level team each year from 7th grade to varstiy
but you don't have a clue as to how to read the district TAKS scores or determine what sub population groups is keeping your school district from being a recongized school dist.
That would require that you get involved in something other than what is going on every Thursday or Friday night
How much money goes into your science dept?
what kids are part of the UIL academic program?
How many Merit scholars did your school have last year?
you don't have a clue

Do you have any idea what the major issues that the state legislature had in mind the past session that concern Public education?
here you go....
Public Education 139
* HB 1287 Chisum Adding study of the Bible as public school elective course

HB 1387 P. King Requiring school districts to conduct feasibility studies before taking land

* HB 2237 Eissler Programs and grants for dropout prevention, high school success, and college readiness

* HB 2532 Patrick Alternative school placement of students expelled for felonies and registered sex offenders

* HB 2814 Eissler Requiring TEA to establish a dual language education pilot program

* HB 3678 C. Howard Voluntary expression of religious viewpoints in public schools

SB 4 Shapiro Establishing a new system of public charter schools

* SB 8 Janek Random steroid testing in public high schools

* SB 9 Shapiro Requiring criminal background checks for public school employees

* SB 530 Nelson Increased physical education requirements for public school students

SB 1000 Shapiro School vouchers for students with autism

* SB 1031 Shapiro Replacing TAKS with end-of-course exams for graduation

SB 1643 Shapiro Tying educator evaluations to test scores

* SB 1788 Shapiro Creating a state virtual school network

Yeah I know this is a sports board, but to get on here and hammer a coach about the PLAY CALLING, give me a break
you think that any coach is calling plays to LOOSE.
But you have all the answers
you need a headset and some thanksgiving guest
what you need is to ... well I will back off of what you really need to do but involves grabbing both ears and tugging real hard to get your head out of your...... no I won't go there tonight

YOU WOULDN'T LAST ONE YEAR AS A COACH OR TEACHER WITH YOUR ATTITUDE

YOU WANT - WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHAT YOU WANT

OH I KNOW THAT OLD STANDARD ANSWER BY THE FOLKS IN THE STANDS. I PAY TAXES THAT MAKE UP YOUR SALARY. BS

YOU PAY TAXES THAT FUND SCHOOLS- JUST BECAUSE YOU COACHED THE 10YEAR OLD PEE WEE TEAM TO THE MAKE UP THE REGION/AREA/ DIST / STATE LITTLE LEAGUE TRI COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP
YOU ARE A COACH

GIVE YOU A HEADSET- YOU COULDN'T WALK A DAY IN ANY HEADCOACHES SHOES -- ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ALL AMERICAN 125LB 5-2 ALL STAR SON WASN'T ON THE TEAM

GET A CLUE

[headhunter]

I want to get paid by WINNING. If your a good coach then all that other stuff goes with WINNING. I am not down playing having class, making the grades, and teaching kids life long lessons. All I am saying is that I do not know how you could be satisfied with anything less than a state championship or at least getting closer each year.

[jimmyceatworld]

I think both sides are right in a sense. It's more than just the game. Coaches do make a difference in kid's lives, as well as many other things than just coach, but so much emphasis is put on winning. A couple of years ago we had a head coach who was a great guy. He loved every second of what he did and taught us discipline and respect but he got canned when we went 2-7 even after 3 straight playoff appearances and being selected as the state Coach of the Year during one of those seasons.

[Bubba-Joe]

Originally posted by headhunter
I want to get paid by WINNING. If your a good coach then all that other stuff goes with WINNING. I am not down playing having class, making the grades, and teaching kids life long lessons. All I am saying is that I do not know how you could be satisfied with anything less than a state championship or at least getting closer each year.

and just how many state championships do they hand out each year?

your not down having class
making the grades
teaching kids life lessons

PLEASE don't go into any form of education

you don't have the right priorities for the profession.

[Snydertigersrul]

Originally posted by Bubba-Joe
and just how many state championships do they hand out each year?

your not down having class
making the grades
teaching kids life lessons

PLEASE don't go into any form of education

you don't have the right priorities for the profession.


I can not believe this, Bubba and I agree on something.

:rolleyes:

[RiverRat19]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
I think both sides are right in a sense. It's more than just the game. Coaches do make a difference in kid's lives, as well as many other things than just coach, but so much emphasis is put on winning. A couple of years ago we had a head coach who was a great guy. He loved every second of what he did and taught us discipline and respect but he got canned when we went 2-7 even after 3 straight playoff appearances and being selected as the state Coach of the Year during one of those seasons.

He probably got crossways with someone who had it out for him to begin with and was able to use the one losing year to be the excuse to get rid of him... Happens lots of places. Other places will deal with the ups and downs of small schools a little better.

[WylieBulldog92]

NM

[ProudHornetMom]

For the ones with concerns regarding play calling...

Can you go watch the game films at booster club or coaches' corner? That helps explain why plays are called the way they are. You usually find that the play is a good one...if it is executed correctly and the film will bear it out.

Coaching is tough and they don't get paid enough in 3A schools where they have to make do with what ever talent appears...unlike 5A where you toss one player aside and there's 8 in line to take over. I would hope one would try to get to know the coach's system, watch the films and then be critical if needed.

[Bubba-Joe]

Originally posted by Snydertigersrul
I can not believe this, Bubba and I agree on something.

:rolleyes:

Yeah I know
stranger things have happend

I love the snyder Sweetwater threads
and understand that certain things go along with the teaching profession
but fools I just don't tolerate em as much as I used to

some folks just don't get it.
and don't go thinking I am going to be agreeing with you alot this year drooler

[DukeNukem]

bubba joe is completely right on this topic. every coach wants to win and that may be his main goal. However, a coach's most important job is to be a good teacher, a solid role model/mentor, and to represent his/her school professionally. only people that are in the profession understand how much coaches sacrifice and the amount of work/effort they put into their teams. it consumes their lives yet the average person thinks they know more about a team than the coaches. yes there are some bad coaches, but 99% of coaches give everything they have for their teams.

as said above, if you want to coach, call plays, etc... just perform the following

1. get a degree (by the way you will make less money than the garbage truck driver until you are head coach and then you still will most likely not make more than 75,000)
2. pass the numerous educator certification tests you must have to get a teaching job
3. teach 4-6 classes a day full of lazy teenagers
4. listen to principals about TAKS
5. take care of the loads of paperwork you have
6. tell your family goodbye in august and let them know you will see them in may.
7. put in 1-4 hours a day watching film, preparing for practice, etc...
8. be at practice for 1-3 hours per day
9. attend all booster club, teachers required meetings and other crap you have to do.
10. you will get summers off. oh forgot, scratch that. you have weightroom duty 3 days per week for 3 weeks of the summer as well as multiple camps for the little kids in town and then start marking fields and getting equipment ready in mid-july.
11. don't forget to grade your papers and tests when you get home at 8 pm everynight.


as far as the state titles comment. ask any coach that knows something and they will still tell you it comes down to jimmies and joes rather than x's and o's

teams win state titles. not individual players or coaches.

[scrub c]

Originally posted by wildstangs
Get a degree. Become a coach. Then complain about play calling.

Once a person buys a ticket, they also purchase the right to complain about play calling...

whether you like it or not...

[jimmyceatworld]

Originally posted by RiverRat19
He probably got crossways with someone who had it out for him to begin with and was able to use the one losing year to be the excuse to get rid of him... Happens lots of places. Other places will deal with the ups and downs of small schools a little better.

Actually it was a group of parents who thought he was doing a terrible job because the team was losing. They thought their kids were statebound because of their dominating years in junior high and even referred to them as the "Golden Egg" class. Well, they got what they wanted and the coach was fired. The next year with that group of players being seniors the team went 1-9.

[headhunter]

Dont tell me that yall have never complained why a coach called such a play, and yes I see both sides of this, but If you are consistently getting deep in the playoffs, and have the talent to win it all and every year you come up short because of stupid mistakes like using your timeouts to early, delay of game because you can not decide on the play, poor special teams, or bad play calling then yes I can see why you would be frustrated and complain. Everyone has the right to question what is going on, and yes most of the times it can be justified by going through the film and realizing what the coach had in mind.

I am not picking on any specific coach or program, all i am saying is that everyone has the right to question the decisions made on the field. This is how reporters and analysts get paid. I realize this is not the NFL or College Football but everyone has the right to put their two cents in.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Stangs325
so i was wondering if Sweetwater was the only team that had horrible play calling and if there were other teams that play calling cost them the game


why is always the play calling..........how about the lack of execution...sometimes it is that....... and you have to wonder what the heck are the kids doing most have been running the same plays since jr. high.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by headhunter
I do not know how you could be satisfied with anything less than a state championship or at least getting closer each year.


only ten teams win titles in 11 man........it's not a matter of being satisfied with no championship....it's kind of reality.......not many are going to win one.........everybody wants a championship but i got news for you the odds are against you winning one..

[Trashman]

Originally posted by Bubba-Joe
I promise you coaches do not get paid to win, if that was the case you would see a whole lot more of the recruiting, and other undesirable parts of human nature. Coaches get paid to teach, to change kids lives, to hopefully impact the student athletes that the come in contact with each of every day. The emotions that folks like you place on coaches are accepted as part of the job, just like the FACT that many fans EXPECT to win, coaches have just as much desire to win, but bottom line A TRUE COACHES JOB IS TO CHANGE LIVES, AND MOST OF THE TIME TO TAKE THE PLACE OF MALE ROLE MODEL THAT IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT WINNING AT WHATEVER THE COST. Yes coaches can handle the critism I wonder how many non coaches in the stands on friday night like you would be able to handle the same AMOUNT OF CRITICISM IN YOU CHOOSEN PROFESSION.
Bottom line either get into the profession, or please stop acting like you know more than you really do.

Every Coach knows that if he can't win he won't get to stay long. Coaches are hired to teach kids the game and to win with those kids even if they don't have any talent. Coaches don't get all the credit, but they do get all the blame.

[wimbo_pro]

i agree with Bubba Joe...mostly. Coaches are there to teach our young boys how to be young men. What they learn on the field translates almost exactly to what they need to do in life to win (work hard, sharpen your skills, execute a plan, work as a team, make adjustments to the plan as things change, never give up, play fair). Any coach who does less than these things is, in my opinion , not worth his salary.

With this said, there are many coaches out there who can do both...the things listed here, AND win. They are not mutually exclusive.

I would rather have a coach who teaches values and character but loses as opposed to a cheating, abusive, self-absorbed coach who wins.

[STANG RED]

I dont know how this thread got so off track. It is titled "play calling". But some how it got turned into winning and losing, college degrees, state championships, play execution, etc etc etc...
Those are all fine topics for discussion, but not what this thread is about.
Game time play calling has very little to do with those other topics, but rather more to do with a coach doing his part of putting his team in the best position for success. Even if he makes every correct decision and calls the perfect play on every down, winning is not guaranteed, but there sure is a lot better chance for success than what poor play calling brings.
It is also a plain and simple fact that you cannot play every team the same way. Consistantly hammering away at another teams strength just because those plays are a part of your normal scheme is most likely not going to put your team in it's best position for success. Unless of course you are useing those plays to set the opposing team up for something you can burn them on later. Problem is, I never see that here. I just keep seeing heads being banged up against a brick wall play after play after play, from the opening kickoff till the final buzzer. Somehow we managed to have enough good athletes down through the years to manage to overcome poor play calling against inferior competition and have managed to accumulate a lot of wins. But when faced against teams with superior play calling and better schemes we simply dont stand a chance, even if we do have more talent on the field. I've seen it happen over and over again, and it is very frustrating to say the least. What makes it even more frusterating is that it is so glareingly obvious to anyone who knows football, yet it never changes.
I'll have no problem with losing every game this season, as long as the "play calling" has given our boys their best legitamate chance of winning, but simply lost to a better team. But I have a real problem with the poor "play calling" I have seen for many years which relies completely on superior athletic ability, which simply will not work against stiff competition. We run the same plays over again, even if they are right in the teeth of the other teams strength. What sense is there in that? I have asked myself that far too many times down through the years, and I like many others around here are just plain tired of seeing it.
With that being said, I do think our coaches do an excellent job of working with the boys in their accademic and personal lives, and am very greatful to them for all the good things they do. We have been lucky to have some very fine men setting good examples for our young men to aspire to. And I truely realize this is by far the most important part of what coaches do. I just see too many coaches that manage to be able to do it all equally well, and think our boys deserve to have the same. Maybe I am asking too much, I dont know. But I'm going to keep on asking till I see what I want to see!

[wimbo_pro]

I hear you Stang. After our 04 loss to Cuero, we were not real pleased with the play calling over the entire year. Then, in 05, we saw the same thing...for more than half the season. Then, suddenly, it seemed the coaches "woke up" and just put it all together, especially in the play offs. As you know, we went on to win it all. I personally told the coaches how impressed I was with the job they did...though they knew I had been one of their critics up to the point. They really did a great job.

I am sure the coaches will say "who are you to question or even grade our performance?" Well, we are your biggest fans, and we have earned the right to criticize. Plus, we are all adults, AND you are paid by our dollars. I think we have the right to do it.

But in contrast, last year, our talent level was way down, and the coaches did the best they could. we went 4-6 in the season. I think the coaches did as good of a job last year as they did in 05, they just didnt have the talent. The record doesnt reflect the total story.

[DaHop72]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Good job Bubba Joe, danged if you may have gotten as passion about this as when you get to talking trash to Black Magic and Snydertigersrul.:D :D

[BobcatBenny]

Coaches, even at the high school level, are paid professionals.

There are all levels of performance in the ranks of coaches. Some coaches are not good play callers.

Yep, I can recall coaches getting fired or replaced because they did not meet expectations. And ... it does not take another professional coach to recognize poor play calling.

But ... it usually takes a better coach on the other sideline to expose bad play selection.

I wonder, in reality, how many blowouts are poor execution vs. poor coaching and play selection? :thinking:

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
And yes, Celina has some freakish athletes as well. Especially for a lower classification team.
What are you talking about? Celina is ALWAYS out manned

[BobcatBenny]

What are a coach's responsibility versus the players?

I really put execution and play calling under the coach's responsibility.

I know it could be argued. :eek:

[popcorn screen]

I was at the game and have been to a few Sweetwater games over the years. Play calling was like it was then, just different folks executing the plays. Hey, it is the 1st game and I bet your team gets better each week. Ditto with all -- coaches coach! Get a degree and work your way up, then we can ? your calls.

[WylieBulldog92]

We didn't have anybody go D3 to play football last year...I think execution of gameplan trumps with teams with double of the talent of our team with half of the execution our team has.