Next Year 2005

[Phil C]

The Texas State Legislature meets again. Private Schools will probably try to make a pitch to be included in our hs sports and you know they have unfair recruiting advantages and our high school sports as we know it will be in serious danger of changing as we know it and will be dominated by the private schools who would have an unfair advantage. Look at what has happened in other states. What I am proposing is that we keep this in mind next year and before they meet next year be sure to write our congressmen letting them know our opposition to this. Voter imput has a large effect on congressmen. We should write and have petitions and let them know how we feel. If we can let them know before the bill comes up we have a chance to defeat it. There is still time though but we mustn't procrastinate. Old Cardinal and others have already mentioned what has happened in other states. We should strongly oppose this type of change. What do the rest of you think about these ideas?

[District303aPastPlayer]

Amen!

[PPHSfan]

I think that there is just way too much talent in Texas for private schools and their recruiting practices to be much of a factor.

I mean the supposedly best team in California, Concord De Lasalle is private and recruits from all over the country, and they couldn't stay on the field with the top 25 public schools in Texas.

[vet93]

I have to disagree a little bit. I saw DLS play the team from Lousiana and they whooped them pretty good. I think that they would be very competitive in Texas with an occassional run at the title. I do not think that they would have anywhere close to a 144 game winning streak in Texas. I think that there is the potential for some recruiting after a few years and this could be detrimental. Granted, there is a lot of talent in Texas but if one of the privates in a major metropolitan area decided to get real competitive and offer a few "scholarships" and allow anyone to transfer....I think that it could be an unfair advantage. It won't be in the beginning because the privates aren't geared up yet for football recruiting...but they will get there. It will be much easier to recruit for football in Texas than in California because football is much more important to the population in Texas than in California. Just my .02.


PPHSfan:
I think that there is just way too much talent in Texas for private schools and their recruiting practices to be much of a factor.

I mean the supposedly best team in California, Concord De Lasalle is private and recruits from all over the country, and they couldn't stay on the field with the top 25 public schools in Texas.

[District303aPastPlayer]

PPHSfan:
I think that there is just way too much talent in Texas for private schools and their recruiting practices to be much of a factor.

I mean the supposedly best team in California, Concord De Lasalle is private and recruits from all over the country, and they couldn't stay on the field with the top 25 public schools in Texas.They really should play teams from Texas because i believe that, until someone can knock them off of their 140+ game win streak, they will be considered the best team in the Nation.

[Phil C]

Well and good but do we want to take that chance? This is an election year and there is also an opportunity to even let the candidates know how you feel. The danger is if we are apathetic right now we could pay for it in the future. Sort of like the old guy that fell from the 40th floor of a tall building and as he passed each floor he said to people who were looking out the windows "So far so good." Well, so far so good. wink

[Buckeye80]

I gotta go with PPHS on this one, and I'll say two words: Southlake Carroll. I don't care where you recruit from when the state of Texas can produce programs like the Dragons'. And they're just the best example to use because of the history that program has. There are alot of other programs Corrigan Camden (2A), Shiner (1A), and Bay City (4A) that historically have had exceptional football teams year in and out.
I personally don't think that one or two schools with recruiting power can take over the dominance from the public schools. JMHO

[BullFrog Dad]

Phil C, I'm with you. Here's how it will happen. ABC Academy moves into a district. Say the Jets in that same district have a D1 prospect at QB. ABC scholarships him to their team. The Cats(same district) same thing to their D1 RB and so on. You can also forget hometown loyalty when Mom and Dad consider that 15K per year tutition being free and what that kind of Prep school education will do for their Billy down the road.

[BullFrog Dad]

I almost forgot! Southlake Carroll = White Collar Odessa Permian

[Buckeye80]

BullFrog Dad:
I almost forgot! Southlake Carroll = White Collar Odessa PermianHey I'm by no means a SL Carroll fan. But you have to respect what that program has accomplished, don't you?

[BigChief]

The reason Shiner is so good in 1A every year is because they are a 1A school in a 3A town. Shiner's population is around 2500 has two schools, Shiner High and St. Paul. If the kids don't like the way things are run at one school they transfer to the other and vice versa.

[CatsDen]

I don't believe that Private Schools can make up for the pride that kids have in representing their towns. I know that my son would not even consider transferring to another high school, private or public. His room is even painted in school colors! The kid bleeds green (which is funny because he will be playing football at MNU in Kansas and their color is blue)! I had a job opportunity that would have required that we move out of state and he went crazy...

I question the difference in quality of education, as well. Exactly what difference would you expect, and what impact would the difference have towards the rest of his life? If two kids (one from public, one from private school) both go to the same college, then they will receive the same education (provided that they both pursue the same degree). I guarantee that their employer won't be much concerned with the high school they attended, but more so with the college degree they hold in their hands.

I can see that a dominant football program would only help the kids' chances for scholarships to DI schools, thanks to the exposure it would bring to the whole team. But other than the added exposure, would it really be worth it?

[Buckeye80]

BigChief:
The reason Shiner is so good in 1A every year is because they are a 1A school in a 3A town. Shiner's population is around 2500 has two schools, Shiner High and St. Paul. If the kids don't like the way things are run at one school they transfer to the other and vice versa.I noticed that when I was working down there. We have a school like that up here that's sorta an exception to the rule: Overton. I think the town pop. is just over 2000 and it's a 1A school. Maybe someone needs to go in there and explain the details of sex to those people. :D
Overton in population is about the same size as Daingerfield, and the school is two classes lower. Strange!

[Phil C]

The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :)

[Buckeye80]

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) Consider it filed away. wink

[PPHSfan]

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) We would Phil if this were an original idea. However this is the fifth or sixth time we have discussed this. :D

[BullFrog Dad]

Hey I'm by no means a SL Carroll fan. But you have to respect what that program has accomplished, don't you? They've done it the same way Permian did it in their heyday. Illegal? maybe not Unethical? Definitely

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.

And before you say ANYTHING, I am an Independent. I agree with some of the things on both sides, but I am NO ultra-conservative.

As I am sure, some of you are pretty staunch republicans. But think of it this way.....it's republicans that are trying to get their son's/daughter's private school into the UIL, and i'm sure you wouldn't want that. Now, considering that, would you elect a republican into office? To preserve the UIL the way it is right now, there's no chance in hell i'd put a republican in office.

It may ruffle some feathers....but that's my .02

[JasperDog94]

Private schools competing against public schools is a small price to pay when compared to what the democrats would do as far as raising taxes and "universal healthcare". I'll take my chances with the republicans.

Phil, I'm with you. I think over time, this would be disasterous for public schools. Look at it this way. A private school approaches your son who has the potential to be a DI prospect. They tell you that by playing for them, that you will stand a much better chance of getting some recognition, especially in the playoffs because he could join the other 15 DI recruits that go there. I just think it's a bad idea.

[PPHSfan]

First of all, a private school will have to be a success before they can guarantee "more" exposure. I really don't think that the D1 recruiters are going to throw their rolodexes out the window and stop returning public school coache's phone calls just because the privates are allowed into the UIL.

[vet93]

You will not see the far-reaching effects of this decision until maybe 10-15 years down the line. People will say next year...."look everything is about the same...see it doesn't make a difference if privates are let into the UIL". Where you will see the difference is when the private schools who want to compete have developed their programs, recruiting techniques and develope the financial backing to do so. Then we will be looking at each other and going..."Dang, those private schools are awful good! Man...wish we could recruit like they are."

[20dawgz05]

OK TOTALY OFF SUBJECT...... but it felt weird to see NEXT YEAR 2005!!

[marlin fan]

20dawgz05:
OK TOTALY OFF SUBJECT...... but it felt weird to see NEXT YEAR 2005!!I thought the same thing!!!!! Class of "05" too crunk!!!!!!!! :cool:

[20dawgz05]

marlin fan:

20dawgz05:
OK TOTALY OFF SUBJECT...... but it felt weird to see NEXT YEAR 2005!!I thought the same thing!!!!! Class of "05" too crunk!!!!!!!! :cool: FO SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE!!!

[marlin fan]

20dawgz05:

marlin fan:

20dawgz05:
OK TOTALY OFF SUBJECT...... but it felt weird to see NEXT YEAR 2005!!I thought the same thing!!!!! Class of "05" too crunk!!!!!!!! :cool: FO SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE!!!All Ready Baby!!!!!! :cool:

[Jacket2000]

TarponFanInNorthTexas
The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.
[/QUOTE]
This is 100% wrong. If you'll check the records, the two that pushed the hardest for the UIL to admit the Jesuits were Joe Nixon(R-Houston) and Scott Hochberg(D-Houston). There are no party lines on this issue, it just comes down to who has kids in private schools.
I doubt the UIL will let any other privates in. That was the whole point of letting in the Jesuits; so that the UIL could make their own stipulations. The stipulation is that the school(s) in question can not be allowed to join any other league. TAPPS purposely set up their rules to keep them out, but no others. So, unless TAPPS changes their rules, I dont think you'll see any others joining the UIL.
But, this whole thing is kinda us guys assuming that every homosexual guy wants us(yeah,we tend to do that from time to time). In fact, most private schools dont want to join the UIL. The biggest private schools in Texas barely have a 4a enrollment, and none of them would be able to compete on the 4a level. In fact, just about all of them would be in big trouble if they had to compete against public schools of the same size. So, most of them are perfectly happy competing against other private schools and bragging how they dont have a two-tier system.
J2K

[olddawggreen]

TarponFanInNorthTexas:

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.

And before you say ANYTHING, I am an Independent. I agree with some of the things on both sides, but I am NO ultra-conservative.

As I am sure, some of you are pretty staunch republicans. But think of it this way.....it's republicans that are trying to get their son's/daughter's private school into the UIL, and i'm sure you wouldn't want that. Now, considering that, would you elect a republican into office? To preserve the UIL the way it is right now, there's no chance in hell i'd put a republican in office.

It may ruffle some feathers....but that's my .02Tarponfan, with all due respect to you, I would rather see our kids fight it out on the football fields with private schools than to see the Democrats put back in power. eek! eek! wink

[Gasilla]

Do not be mistaken folks...if private schools are allowed to compete in the UIL they WILL have an unfair advantage. It may take a few years before they can assert themselves, but you can bet it will happen. Private schools can manipulate their enrollment and demographics where public schools can't. It's already a problem with magnet schools, it will be twice as bad with private.

[SintonFan]

olddawggreen:

TarponFanInNorthTexas:

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.

And before you say ANYTHING, I am an Independent. I agree with some of the things on both sides, but I am NO ultra-conservative.

As I am sure, some of you are pretty staunch republicans. But think of it this way.....it's republicans that are trying to get their son's/daughter's private school into the UIL, and i'm sure you wouldn't want that. Now, considering that, would you elect a republican into office? To preserve the UIL the way it is right now, there's no chance in hell i'd put a republican in office.

It may ruffle some feathers....but that's my .02Tarponfan, with all due respect to you, I would rather see our kids fight it out on the football fields with private schools than to see the Democrats put back in power. eek! eek! wink .

Jacket2000:

TarponFanInNorthTexas:
[QUOTE]The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.
This is 100% wrong. If you'll check the records, the two that pushed the hardest for the UIL to admit the Jesuits were Joe Nixon(R-Houston) and Scott Hochberg(D-Houston). There are no party lines on this issue, it just comes down to who has kids in private schools.
I doubt the UIL will let any other privates in. That was the whole point of letting in the Jesuits; so that the UIL could make their own stipulations. The stipulation is that the school(s) in question can not be allowed to join any other league. TAPPS purposely set up their rules to keep them out, but no others. So, unless TAPPS changes their rules, I dont think you'll see any others joining the UIL.
But, this whole thing is kinda us guys assuming that every homosexual guy wants us(yeah,we tend to do that from time to time). In fact, most private schools dont want to join the UIL. The biggest private schools in Texas barely have a 4a enrollment, and none of them would be able to compete on the 4a level. In fact, just about all of them would be in big trouble if they had to compete against public schools of the same size. So, most of them are perfectly happy competing against other private schools and bragging how they dont have a two-tier system.
J2K.
.
Double AMEN!

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: SintonFan ]</small>

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

TarponFanInNorthTexas:

Phil C:
The only thing I want now is for people to remember my post here in the future so that if it happens I can justly say I told you so. :) The only way to prevent this from happening is to elect democrats in. Minimize the number of conservative republicans, and with that, the issue of private schools playing in the UIL goes out the window with the rest of the republicans.

And before you say ANYTHING, I am an Independent. I agree with some of the things on both sides, but I am NO ultra-conservative.

As I am sure, some of you are pretty staunch republicans. But think of it this way.....it's republicans that are trying to get their son's/daughter's private school into the UIL, and i'm sure you wouldn't want that. Now, considering that, would you elect a republican into office? To preserve the UIL the way it is right now, there's no chance in hell i'd put a republican in office.

It may ruffle some feathers....but that's my .02I must say that I agree with you 100%. People will disagree due to the fact that they have been brainwashed by watching too much television and reading magazines, but you are correct in the fact that the only way that we can preserve the UIL as it is today is to stand up and elect democrats to congress, and this is the only suggestion that seems reasonable.

[slpybear the bullfan]

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END:
People will disagree due to the fact that they have been brainwashed by watching too much television and reading magazines, but you are correct in the fact that the only way that we can preserve the UIL as it is today is to stand up and elect democrats to congress, and this is the only suggestion that seems reasonable.Yes... that sound you hear is me choking on my beer, spewing it all over the monitor, and laughing until it starts to come out my nose.

NEWSFLASH: We do NOT need to put the Democrats in power to "save" our current UIL from the terror of private school participation.

All you have to do is contact your current elected representative and let them know. That is ALL you can do.

Sheesh... "Brainwashed"... Are the Dems really in this bad of shape?

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: slpybear the bullfan ]</small>

[PPHSfan]

LOL,

Even if this theory held just a thimble-full of truth, it would still be a terrible idea. Can you imagine someone voting Democrat just for the sake of the UIL? That would be like giving Iraq back to Saddam because he promised to lower the cost of oil.

[sinton66]

Wasn't it a Democratic Ann Richards that pushed for the Lottery by promising the money could be used for the schools? (Keyword in that statement was could .) Any guesses how much Lottery money has gone to the schools/teachers, etc? If there's been any at all, it would pale in comparison to what the rest get.

If private schools are allowed, we could simply insist they follow all UIL rules and regulations just like everybody else, couldn't we? I don't think anyone would want to merge UIL and Tapps into a single authority. That would be disastrous.

<small>[ February 22, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yes, I didn't realize how stupid of a statement that was until I had already posted it, but yes, I am a Democrat, and anytime ya'll would like to talk politics, feel free to PM me, but lets just stick to the topic of football here, lol.

[sinton66]

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END:
Yes, I didn't realize how stupid of a statement that was until I had already posted it, but yes, I am a Democrat, and anytime ya'll would like to talk politics, feel free to PM me, but lets just stick to the topic of football here, lol.Uhmmmm, I hate to tell you this, but you and TFINT brought it up. Yall didn't really expect it to go unchallenged, did you?

<small>[ February 22, 2004, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, actually, I did, but I have more reasons than that to have Democrats in office, and I would rather not have people gang up on me and pin me against a wall, not to mention this is a football website. If you do want to talk, feel free to PM me anytime. Democrats aren't as bad as ya'll make them out to be.

[Old Cardinal]

To Tarpon: There is a 12 step program for LIBERALS- It begins by stating--- #1. I am not a "Moderate"or "Independent"; I am a liberal. I vote Democratic....That the first part of the 12 step program, there is always hope if you can come to admit this! LOL ....On the issue of Recruiting Private Schools, I would invite you to attend the big Softball Tournament in Sulphur, LA coming up soon. You can walk up to the games and immediately see the fully recruited teams of the Private programs. The girls are all big and very athletically built. If Texas allows this to happen they are crazy!

[Old Tiger]

That wouldn't be good at all.

[sinton66]

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END:
Yeah, actually, I did, but I have more reasons than that to have Democrats in office, and I would rather not have people gang up on me and pin me against a wall, not to mention this is a football website. If you do want to talk, feel free to PM me anytime. Democrats aren't as bad as ya'll make them out to be.My point was, you drew the sword, you can't expect Republicans to keep theirs sheathed. Doesn't matter what your reasons are for wanting Dems in office, if you bring it up, it's going to be debated.

[sinton66]

If you want to see what happened after the Republicans took office in Texas, go to this link and read what the legislature now requires as far as disbursement of Lottery money. Where the money goes (http://www.txlottery.org/faq/moneygoes.cfm)
Prior to legislative action, all of the Lottery profits went straight into the "General Fund".

[Jacket2000]

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END:

I must say that I agree with you 100%. People will disagree due to the fact that they have been brainwashed by watching too much television and reading magazines, but you are correct in the fact that the only way that we can preserve the UIL as it is today is to stand up and elect democrats to congress, and this is the only suggestion that seems reasonable.[/QB]Like I said, check the records. There are no party lines drawn for this topic. It just depends on who has kids in private schools. It's been pretty equal on both sides so far.
But, once again, you're all assuming too much. Yes, there are some private schools who have money to burn and can afford to give "financial aid" to gifted athletes(ie. the Jesuits). But, the vast majority are just trying to stay in existance. Every bit of funding the school gets comes from tuition. So, while more students means more money, it also means that more money is needed. So, just about all the TAPPS schools wouldnt be able to afford to cheat if they were to join the UIL, resulting in many 0-10 seasons and 60-0 games. Why would they want to do that when they can stay where they are, play on their own level, and still claim to be a state champion if they happen to win out? Im tellin' y'all, we dont haveta worry about the privates coming to the UIL, and if they do, then there'll be alot more options for homecoming games.
J2K

[PPHSfan]

...."and if they do, then there'll be alot more options for homecoming games...
J2K"Funny stuff jacket. :D

[olddawggreen]

PPHSfan:

...."and if they do, then there'll be alot more options for homecoming games...
J2K"Funny stuff jacket. :D You put the ball between the goal post on that one Jacket! :D :D

[Phil C]

Man I really didn't want to start a political debate. I will try to make myself a little clearer. I don't care if you are a democrate or republican. Or liberal or conservative. Or right wing, middle wing or left wing or whatever. I just meant for you to write to your congressman and let them know that you oppose private schools coming into the UIL. I thought since this is a election year you could let all the candidates know how you feel while they are campaigning. Then vote who you choose but that way they would know when they met at the next election whoever was there that there are those opposed to this bill if it comes up. And it wouldn't hurt to let the governor know too. I didn't intend for there to be a political debate but mainly to let the congressmen know our opposition to this bill if it comes up. And for those of you that want the private schools in it would give you an opportunity to express your pros for it.

[vet93]

Here is why I think that it will be a problem in the future to allow privates. As I stated before...it won't be a problem initially but this will change. Example...back in the 70's there was very little money in getting involved in livestock shows. It was a competition to teach kids about raising livestock. The purses were usually about enough to cover expenses...maybe a little more. Cheating was not too common. As the eighties and nineties approached corporations began putting large amounts of money into the purses and winning a major show meant a college education (and sometimes much more) and a great deal of prestige. When the money and prestige started rolling so did all of the illegal activity. Drugs (to enhance performance), cosmetic surgery (to hide blemishes), switching animals, lying about their ages (the animals) etc...etc... Make no mistake...when money and prestige is involved people are going to do whatever it takes to be successful. Some privates will eventually key in on the fact that winning championships can bring alot of prestige and money to their school. Kids in the area will realize that if they play for this team that they may have a better shot at a scholarship and potential athletic career (this could very well be a false assumption on their part but attractive nonetheless). That is where the two-headed monster of money and prestige will come together I agree that many private schools are just trying to make ends meet but some of the big boys will be able to play the game and in my opinion it could be an unfair advantage.

<small>[ February 23, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: vet93 ]</small>

[PPHSfan]

Winning State Championships is not done with recruited athletes, especially in the State of Texas. Winning Championships is done with superior coaching staffs, and it is not illegal to pay them whatever you want. Yes there is prestige that comes with Championships, but not the millions of dollars that most folks think. Celina sold out tickets thru four consecutive State Championships, and they still play on a forty dollar field and change clothes in a twenty dollar field house.

[vet93]

But you don't have to pay any extra money to go to school in Celina unless you own property and have to pay taxes. Private schools will be able to use a high dollar coach and chance for a championship as a recruiting tool. That is where the bucks come from. Also never underestimate the power of prestige and a group of individuals drive to be considered "the best". To many, that is more important than the money.


PPHSfan:
Winning State Championships is not done with recruited athletes, especially in the State of Texas. Winning Championships is done with superior coaching staffs, and it is not illegal to pay them whatever you want. Yes there is prestige that comes with Championships, but not the millions of dollars that most folks think. Celina sold out tickets thru four consecutive State Championships, and they still play on a forty dollar field and change clothes in a twenty dollar field house.

[olddawggreen]

PPHSfan:
Winning State Championships is not done with recruited athletes, especially in the State of Texas. Winning Championships is done with superior coaching staffs, and it is not illegal to pay them whatever you want. Yes there is prestige that comes with Championships, but not the millions of dollars that most folks think. Celina sold out tickets thru four consecutive State Championships, and they still play on a forty dollar field and change clothes in a twenty dollar field house.I think your right about the money PPHSfan. I was just visiting with one of our board members the other day about how much money we made off football last season. I had assumed that with the crowds that Burnet pulled all year, that we would have made a bunch of money. He explained to me that after expenses it wasnt much. I was shocked at how little it was.

<small>[ February 23, 2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: olddawggreen ]</small>

[vet93]

I agree olddawg (half of my family is in school administration or was). The money will not come to privates from any increase in the gate. The money will come from tuition that they can charge and from rich alumni donating to put their alma mater on the map.


olddawggreen:

PPHSfan:
Winning State Championships is not done with recruited athletes, especially in the State of Texas. Winning Championships is done with superior coaching staffs, and it is not illegal to pay them whatever you want. Yes there is prestige that comes with Championships, but not the millions of dollars that most folks think. Celina sold out tickets thru four consecutive State Championships, and they still play on a forty dollar field and change clothes in a twenty dollar field house.I think your right about the money PPHSfan. I was just visiting with one of our board members the other day about the how much money we made off football last season. I had assumed that with the crowds that Burnet pulled all year, that we would have made a bunch of money. He explained to me that after expenses it wasnt much. I was shocked at how little it was.

[slpybear the bullfan]

This has been a good discussion... Good comments...

I am going to post a topic on the biggest factors in winning championships......

[Gasilla]

Jacket2000:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END:

I must say that I agree with you 100%. People will disagree due to the fact that they have been brainwashed by watching too much television and reading magazines, but you are correct in the fact that the only way that we can preserve the UIL as it is today is to stand up and elect democrats to congress, and this is the only suggestion that seems reasonable.Like I said, check the records. There are no party lines drawn for this topic. It just depends on who has kids in private schools. It's been pretty equal on both sides so far.
But, once again, you're all assuming too much. Yes, there are some private schools who have money to burn and can afford to give "financial aid" to gifted athletes(ie. the Jesuits). But, the vast majority are just trying to stay in existance. Every bit of funding the school gets comes from tuition. So, while more students means more money, it also means that more money is needed. So, just about all the TAPPS schools wouldnt be able to afford to cheat if they were to join the UIL, resulting in many 0-10 seasons and 60-0 games. Why would they want to do that when they can stay where they are, play on their own level, and still claim to be a state champion if they happen to win out? Im tellin' y'all, we dont haveta worry about the privates coming to the UIL, and if they do, then there'll be alot more options for homecoming games.
J2K[/QB]Jacket, I respect what you're saying and I agree it may not be an issue in the beginning, but it will be eventually. Like Oldcard, I live right on the Louisiana border, I see what it's done over there. Private schools do rule. St Louis in Lake Charles has won State in baseball umpteen times. They have players from all over LC, Sulphur and even Orange. It will be the same here.

[spiveyrat]

When we speak of private schools "invading" the UIL, we're almost exclusively talking about Catholic schools, right? The only schools who could afford the big money coaches and programs that you are all talking about are the schools that already exist in Houston, Dallas, and maybe San Antonio. The only areas in Texas who have enough Catholics congregated close enough to create Catholic schools are the areas that already have them. All other areas in the state could start their own respective schools. But due to small populations, poverty, or both, I just can't see any other "super schools" popping up. Louisiana is a different animal with different demographics. They have much more Catholics per capita than does Texas. Their schools do draw some families with $$$. But, I think in a lot of cases, the advantage is the number of Catholics who want to send their kids to Catholic school.

[Gasilla]

spiveyrat:
When we speak of private schools "invading" the UIL, we're almost exclusively talking about Catholic schools, right? The only schools who could afford the big money coaches and programs that you are all talking about are the schools that already exist in Houston, Dallas, and maybe San Antonio. The only areas in Texas who have enough Catholics congregated close enough to create Catholic schools are the areas that already have them. All other areas in the state could start their own respective schools. But due to small populations, poverty, or both, I just can't see any other "super schools" popping up. Louisiana is a different animal with different demographics. They have much more Catholics per capita than does Texas. Their schools do draw some families with $$$. But, I think in a lot of cases, the advantage is the number of Catholics who want to send their kids to Catholic school.We have private schools all over Southeast Texas. Maybe not in Jasper or Kville, but there are a few in Beaumont and a couple in Orange. The two in Beaumont have a pretty sturdy back pocket and one isn't Catholic. Either way, I'm very worried about this possibility.

[olddawggreen]

Gasilla:

spiveyrat:
When we speak of private schools "invading" the UIL, we're almost exclusively talking about Catholic schools, right? The only schools who could afford the big money coaches and programs that you are all talking about are the schools that already exist in Houston, Dallas, and maybe San Antonio. The only areas in Texas who have enough Catholics congregated close enough to create Catholic schools are the areas that already have them. All other areas in the state could start their own respective schools. But due to small populations, poverty, or both, I just can't see any other "super schools" popping up. Louisiana is a different animal with different demographics. They have much more Catholics per capita than does Texas. Their schools do draw some families with $$$. But, I think in a lot of cases, the advantage is the number of Catholics who want to send their kids to Catholic school.We have private schools all over Southeast Texas. Maybe not in Jasper or Kville, but there are a few in Beaumont and a couple in Orange. The two in Beaumont have a pretty sturdy back pocket and one isn't Catholic. Either way, I'm very worried about this possibility.From what Ive been told, the private schools in Beaumont have pretty puney football teams that wouldn't be a huge threat to 3A or 4A football. I have friends that have kids at one of them. I think they would prefere that they keep things the way they are.

[spiveyrat]

Gasilla:

spiveyrat:
When we speak of private schools "invading" the UIL, we're almost exclusively talking about Catholic schools, right? The only schools who could afford the big money coaches and programs that you are all talking about are the schools that already exist in Houston, Dallas, and maybe San Antonio. The only areas in Texas who have enough Catholics congregated close enough to create Catholic schools are the areas that already have them. All other areas in the state could start their own respective schools. But due to small populations, poverty, or both, I just can't see any other "super schools" popping up. Louisiana is a different animal with different demographics. They have much more Catholics per capita than does Texas. Their schools do draw some families with $$$. But, I think in a lot of cases, the advantage is the number of Catholics who want to send their kids to Catholic school.We have private schools all over Southeast Texas. Maybe not in Jasper or Kville, but there are a few in Beaumont and a couple in Orange. The two in Beaumont have a pretty sturdy back pocket and one isn't Catholic. Either way, I'm very worried about this possibility.That's not all over SE Texas, though. That's just the triangle area. There are tons of Louisiana transplants down in that area. Once you move from that area in any direction, the Catholic churches begin to decline in number.

Despite it's deep pockets (just going by what you said), Kelly High School is not a viable football opponent when compared to 4A 3A, and many 2A programs.

[BullFrog Dad]

It's much more than Catholic schools when you're talking private schools. We played a school by the name of Grace Prep(Arlington, TX) this year. QB, RB, and WR all went D1. In fact their WR was a top 5 national recruit on everybody's list. (Lance Leggett) What a coincidence! I would have loved to see them and Gainsville go at it.

[spiveyrat]

Yeah, I realize there are other private schools besides Catholic ones. I think it's safe to say that they outnumber all the others. I could be wrong...

[PPHSfan]

Evangel Christian

Supposedly Louisiana's best prep school football team, would not dominate in their neighboring district across the red river in Texas.(Longview; Texas DP Power Rating 117.8) beat them last season 43-26. IN LOUISIANA

Now this is about as good of an example you can get from a system that is already in place.

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: PPHSfan ]</small>

[Matthew328]

Arlington Grace Prep was pretty darn salty last year..

[Jacket2000]

BullFrog Dad:
It's much more than Catholic schools when you're talking private schools. We played a school by the name of Grace Prep(Arlington, TX) this year. QB, RB, and WR all went D1. In fact their WR was a top 5 national recruit on everybody's list. (Lance Leggett) What a coincidence! I would have loved to see them and Gainsville go at it.FYI; Grace Prep is a catholic school. They're also coached by Mike Barber, former Houston Oilers TE, and one of the FEW teams that could compete in the UIL. I still dont think they could compete very well, considering they only beat Dallas Christian by 2 and lost to an Oklahoma private school.But, yes they do recruit. Most private schools do recuit, but it mostly from one private to another, b/c contrary to popular belief, most dont have the money to give scholarships, and it is a TAPPS violation to give them anyway. It's usually a "come play for us, we'll be real good next year" or "you can start for us next year" type thing. Every now and then, such as Grace Prep, it's a "we'll give your daddy a coaching job" type thing. But there are very, very, very few "well pay for your school" deals.
J2K

[olddawggreen]

I just read that Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit, the states two largest private schools, will be joining the UIL this year and playing 5A football.

[Jacket2000]

olddawggreen:
I just read that Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit, the states two largest private schools, will be joining the UIL this year and playing 5A football.A lil' behind, are ya? :D
J2K

[sinton66]

When they announced that those two would join the UIL competitions, it was stated that they had agreed to abide by all UIL rules and regs just like everybody else. They will not be allowed to offer "scholarships" any more than anyone else in the public sector. The "give daddy a job" deal happens even with public schools. People with money to burn have always had "options". We also need to remember that what the UIL grants, it can just as easily take away. They are autonomous and subject only to court action currently. The State has even instructed the courts to limit that. Overall, the UIL does a tremendous job of keeping the playing field fair and level. I don't suspect that will change anytime soon.

[BullFrog Dad]

FYI; Grace Prep is a catholic school. They're also coached by Mike Barber, former Houston Oilers TE, and one of the FEW teams that could compete in the UIL. I still dont think they could compete very well, considering they only beat Dallas Christian by 2 and lost to an Oklahoma private school.But, yes they do recruit. Most private schools do recuit, but it mostly from one private to another, b/c contrary to popular belief, most dont have the money to give scholarships, and it is a TAPPS violation to give them anyway. It's usually a "come play for us, we'll be real good next year" or "you can start for us next year" type thing. Every now and then, such as Grace Prep, it's a "we'll give your daddy a coaching job" type thing. But there are very, very, very few "well pay for your school" deals. J2K J2K, They actually reference themselves as a Christian school. An amazing fact about the school is that it's enrollment is capped at approx. 600 students.(grades 1-12) If that is a level load then I seen one heck of a 2A football team!!!

[olddawggreen]

Jacket2000:

olddawggreen:
I just read that Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit, the states two largest private schools, will be joining the UIL this year and playing 5A football.A lil' behind, are ya? :D
J2KApparently so Jacket, I was just checking out some information out on Cambell's site and saw the Feburary article on this. I guess I just never really paid much attention to this subject until this thread popped up.

[Old Cardinal]

I don't think some folks understand on here what will happen if they come in. Immediately they will scan the area and offer to start the best players from a large geographic area on one recruited team! As long as they remain private in private leagues, they want start to dominate like they will if placed in with public schools. When an objective is set(like in Louisiana): it does not take long to cluster all the Division I probable players on to the aspiring recruiting capable Private school teams....Years back when softball teams were a big thing for all of the area Chemical and Oil Refineries, there were Plant Managers that openly solicited good players from other industrial plants with the invitation "If you can beat us, or even help us win, you have a job offer over at out plant" It's as old as football, basketball, baseball- to recruit, if you are allowed to recruit. Some will openly major in that endeavor!"

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[Jacket2000]

BullFrog Dad:

FYI; Grace Prep is a catholic school. They're also coached by Mike Barber, former Houston Oilers TE, and one of the FEW teams that could compete in the UIL. I still dont think they could compete very well, considering they only beat Dallas Christian by 2 and lost to an Oklahoma private school.But, yes they do recruit. Most private schools do recuit, but it mostly from one private to another, b/c contrary to popular belief, most dont have the money to give scholarships, and it is a TAPPS violation to give them anyway. It's usually a "come play for us, we'll be real good next year" or "you can start for us next year" type thing. Every now and then, such as Grace Prep, it's a "we'll give your daddy a coaching job" type thing. But there are very, very, very few "well pay for your school" deals. J2K J2K, They actually reference themselves as a Christian school. An amazing fact about the school is that it's enrollment is capped at approx. 600 students.(grades 1-12) If that is a level load then I seen one heck of a 2A football team!!!Well, the faith that the school is based on is catholic. But, Im thinking that you misunderstood their enrollment. 600 sounds about right for 6-12, or maybe 7-12, but I know they have to have at least 400 in 9-12, b/c they're a 5A TAPPS school. Also, somethin' else interesting,look at the last names of the D1 players, then look at the last names of the coaches. You'll be amazed at how many matches there are LOL. They're one of the few schools Id be worried about in the UIL(Bishop Lynch is the other one).
J2K

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Jacket2000 ]</small>