Army is wack

[Old Tiger]

Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Army changes mind, says Campbell can't play in NFL until 2010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services

ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- Caleb Campbell was a day away from practicing with the Detroit Lions and taking a step toward his dream of playing in the NFL.

"He was issued a helmet, ready to go," coach Rod Marinelli said Wednesday.

Now, Campbell, who was the Lions seventh-round draft pick, is closer to joining his fellow West Point graduates in Iraq or Afghanistan.

"When I got drafted, I told people that I was going to have the best of both worlds," Campbell said. "I was going to be in the United States Army and I was going to have a chance to play professional football. Now, I have the best of one world and I'm very positive about that. It's all going to work out.

"I'm in great shape and I'm going to stay in great shape. I'm going to fulfil my duty to the United States Army and do what I've got to do. One day, hopefully I'll get another opportunty to play in the NFL."

The U.S. Army revised its interpretation of U.S. Department of Defense policy two weeks ago regarding soldiers playing professional sports, requiring cadets to complete two years of active duty before applying for a release. Campbell and the Lions didn't officially receive notice of the change until the eve of training camp.

"It's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean Caleb Campbell's dream is dead. It just means it will be delayed," Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb told The Associated Press. "We want to take care of soldiers and dashing their hopes is not what we intend. But it is what it is."

Edgecomb said minor league baseball players Nick Hill and Milan Dinga, former West Point standouts, will be allowed to finish their seasons before eventually joining their units.

"We did an internal review of our policy and found that based on the DOD policy, we needed to adjust our policy," Edgecomb said Wednesday.

Campbell agreed to contract terms but did not sign the deal. The Lions will retain his rights until the 2009 draft, but he will not be eligible to play until 2010.

"Obviously, he's disappointed," said Marinelli, a Vietnam veteran. "But I obviously know what he's about. He got his orders and he's ready to report."

When Detroit drafted Campbell in April, it created a lot of publicity and led to some debate whether it was fair for a cadet to play pro sports while classmates were at war.

The buzz might have also made the Navy and Air Force bitter because their graduates were playing under different rules under the same Department of Defense directive, which was implemented in 1994, reiterated in 2007 and again just a few days after the NFL draft.

"The policy has not changed," Department of Defense spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said.

Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter ruled last month that Mitch Harris must serve a five-year active duty commitment. Harris, a 22-year-old pitcher with a 95-mph fastball, was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the 13th round in this year's draft.

Harris acknowledged being surprised by the ruling because Campbell was being allowed to pursue football while completing his military service as a recruiter and in the reserves.

"Army has redefined the Alternative Service Option to include playing professional sports," Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has said. "Our coaches are now operating under a significant handicap when recruiting head-to-head with Army. It may not be reflected on the playing field today, but I can guarantee you that it will result in a competitive disadvantage down the road."

The Air Force agreed, saying the academies recruit cadets from the same pool of candidates.

Last month, the Army embraced the advantage.

"The real advantage for the Army is just the amount of publicity we get," Edgecomb said in an AP story published on June 13. "When you think about it, who's the best recruiter for the Navy you can think of? David Robinson. He's called the Admiral, for goodness sake. The attention that we get in our primary demographic to have someone playing sports who's in the Army, that's where [we] in the Army see the advantage in this program."

Before he became a superstar center with the San Antonio Spurs, Robinson served two years of active duty for the Navy after graduating from the academy in the 1980s. He benefited from a policy that allowed him to apply for an early release to pursue "an activity with potential recruiting or public affairs benefit to the Navy and Marine Corps."

In 1986, Navy running back Napoleon McCallum played his rookie year with the Los Angeles Raiders while stationed at the Long Beach, Calif., naval base.

The Army changed its policy on July 8, but it wasn't until July 23 that the Lions received a letter from U.S. Army Lt. Col. Jonathan P. Liba, informing them in writing that Campbell had to cease playing football in order to perform "full time traditional military duties," until at least 2010.

"It's unfortunate that the timing of the new policy is happening at the same time that he was about to begin trying out, but that's not something we planned," Edgecomb said. "But he's been at West Point for four years and he went there to be an officer. What he's accomplished on a football field has been outstanding, but what he'll accomplish as a soldier will be even greater."


ESPN.com's Kevin Seifert and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[ronwx5x]

Why do you say Army is wack? These young people knew they would incur an obligation when they accepted an appointment, free education and a salary to attend a military academy. I don't know of any rule that says if you are a good athlete you don't incur that obligation.

Just a minute, let's ask Roger Staubach and David Robinson about it.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Why do you say Army is wack? These young people knew they would incur an obligation when they accepted an appointment, free education and a salary to attend a military academy. I don't know of any rule that says if you are a good athlete you don't incur that obligation.

Just a minute, let's ask Roger Staubach and David Robinson about it. I guess you didn't know that the Army put in a policy that if someone got drafted that they could put off those obligations or what not and go to the league then all of a sudden, a day before camp was to start, they do a complete 180 on that policy. IMO the time is crap and the 180 on the policy should have been for next years draft.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Go Blue
I guess you didn't know that the Army put in a policy that if someone got drafted that they could put off those obligations or what not and go to the league then all of a sudden, a day before camp was to start, they do a complete 180 on that policy. IMO the time is crap and the 180 on the policy should have been for next years draft.

July 8 is not the day before training camp was to start. The policy was put in place but now has been changed. Any policy can be changed, including "don't ask, don't tell".

I think most folks would agree that military obligation trumps sports. I do not think, however, that you believe it.
:(

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Go Blue
I guess you didn't know that the Army put in a policy that if someone got drafted that they could put off those obligations or what not and go to the league then all of a sudden, a day before camp was to start, they do a complete 180 on that policy. IMO the time is crap and the 180 on the policy should have been for next years draft.

yeah...it looks more like a publicity stunt for the Army now...they get all the attention for how great it is to have one of their players drafted, how they're going to let him play and serve his country within his home country...then just before the season starts, flop and hope that nobody notices.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
yeah...it looks more like a publicity stunt for the Army now...they get all the attention for how great it is to have one of their players drafted, how they're going to let him play and serve his country within his home country...then just before the season starts, flop and hope that nobody notices. Yup....but now it's creating negative publicity

[Johnny Utah]

Go Blue, I must disagree with your opinion. These young people joined the service academys and military for a reason. They know what comes along with all of that.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Go Blue, I must disagree with your opinion. These young people joined the service academys and military for a reason. They know what comes along with all of that.

I don't think it's wrong at all that they require him to serve. I think it's wrong that they told him he didn't have to, then changed their mind after enjoying all the good publicity for it over three months.

[Johnny Utah]

I am sure there is more to it. You are dealing with the Federal Government that gave you a FREE EDUCATION to TRAIN YOU FOR LIFE AND THEREFORE YOU OWE THEM A CERTAIN COMMITTEMENT. Not disagreeing with you at all if the true story is the Army is backing off of its original stance. The young man has a great attitude in it all.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I don't think it's wrong at all that they require him to serve. I think it's wrong that they told him he didn't have to, then changed their mind after enjoying all the good publicity for it over three months.
I thought it was strange to begin with that he was NOT going to have to serve. IMO, the policy of the Academies should be consistent.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I thought it was strange to begin with that he was NOT going to have to serve. IMO, the policy of the Academies should be consistent. I think the policy said if you get drafted by a professional team those obligations would be omitted

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
I think the policy said if you get drafted by a professional team those obligations would be omitted :doh: :doh: And I said the policies should be consistent.

The Naval and Air Force Academies don't let the graduates out of their obligation.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Go Blue
I think the policy said if you get drafted by a professional team those obligations would be omitted
Good thing you will never be in charge of anything.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:doh: :doh: And I said the policies should be consistent.

The Naval and Air Force Academies don't let the graduates out of their obligation. last time i checked the navy, air force, and army academies are different

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
last time i checked the navy, air force, and army academies are different
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9430/brick01xg7.gif

[navscanmaster]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9430/brick01xg7.gif
:redxpoke: :ditto:

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9430/brick01xg7.gif

I got it, I got it! :fnypost: :iagree:

[Matthew328]

The timing is poor in this case, there was probably lots of red tape to cut through and maybe thats why it didn't get announced until now.....

I do think that Campbell would have been more useful to the Army by being allowed to play and be in more of a recruiting role for the Army

But thats their decision and when you go to the service academy it is understood you will have to spend time in active duty...just bad timing

[IHStangFan]

what is being missed here is that the Army was pressured by the DOD to change said policy.

[Ingleside Fan]

I guess this guy forgot his oath of office.

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign or domestic."

Roger Staubach served his time and still had a career with the Cowboys!

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Go Blue, I must disagree with your opinion. These young people joined the service academys and military for a reason. They know what comes along with all of that. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

IMO everybody should do at least two years in the military! Right out of high school. They could help secure the borders, north and south!

[carter08]

If he wanted to be an athlete, he should have gone somewhere else.

But, he went to Army. And now, he has to deal with the consequences of that.





Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
- bob dylan

[buff4life]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I don't think it's wrong at all that they require him to serve. I think it's wrong that they told him he didn't have to, then changed their mind after enjoying all the good publicity for it over three months.

my thoughts exactly...

it doesn't bother me that they changed it back, but apply it to the next guy, not to the guy you already gave permission to

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by garciap77
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

IMO everybody should do at least two years in the military! Right out of high school. They could help secure the borders, north and south!

Like Isreal? Every male citizen has two serve two years in the
military.

[pirate4state]

Am I missing something? I didn't read anything that lead me to believe that this young man was upset. :confused:

"When I got drafted, I told people that I was going to have the best of both worlds," Campbell said. "I was going to be in the United States Army and I was going to have a chance to play professional football. Now, I have the best of one world and I'm very positive about that. It's all going to work out.

"I'm in great shape and I'm going to stay in great shape. I'm going to fulfil my duty to the United States Army and do what I've got to do. One day, hopefully I'll get another opportunty to play in the NFL."

Sounds like the only person that matters has his head on straight! :thumbsup:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Am I missing something? I didn't read anything that lead me to believe that this young man was upset. :confused:

Sounds like the only person that matters has his head on straight! :thumbsup:
You are correct. GB is just trying to :stirpot: as usual and place blame when there is none. ;)

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You are correct. GB is just trying to :stirpot: as usual and place blame when there is none. ;)

Wow! Talk about :stirpot: 'ing.


...............................................:D :D :D.............................................

[Eagle 1]

After recently retiring from the military with 23 years service, I can tell you this. The Army don't care who he is, to them he is just a number in the Army sworn to protect and defend.
Timing has nothing to do with it.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Eagle 1
After recently retiring from the military with 23 years service, I can tell you this. The Army don't care who he is, to them he is just a number in the Army sworn to protect and defend.
Timing has nothing to do with it.

Congratulations on your 23 years and thanks for your service. Hopefully it wasn't intended to be 20 and you got extended!
:eek: :eek:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You are correct. GB is just trying to :stirpot: as usual and place blame when there is none. ;)

Not Go Blue! He never :stirpot: !;)

P.S. He just has a crush on RM!:D

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Ingleside Fan
I guess this guy forgot his oath of office.

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign or domestic."

Roger Staubach served his time and still had a career with the Cowboys!

Don't forget David Robinson. "The Admiral"!!!!!!!!

[rockdale80]

Thought this was relevant.





An American soldier freely submits to being the property of his country. It is a commitment that humbles the rest of us.

And it is this covenant — between man and country — that is at the heart of the Caleb Campbell story and the Army's decision to rescind the Alternative Service Option it had extended to him. Campbell was still going to belong to the U.S. Army when the NFL kicked off in September. But if he made the Lions, he was going to be deployed as a football hero recruiter.

Unbeknownst to Campbell, the mission changed earlier this month.

The Army's reversal was made on July 8, but in true F.U.B.A.R. fashion, the military failed to alert Campbell to the change until the eve of his reporting to training camp with the Lions this week.


Whether or not the Alternative Service Option or "special skills" clause was good policy is open for debate. That the Army botched the execution of the policy seems obvious.

Like a drill sergeant deciding how many pushups a recruit owes him, the Army uses its property however it sees fit. Whether it's cleaning latrines in Kandahar or flying to the ball at Ford Field, a soldier is doing what's best for the Army.

And if Caleb Campbell, a 6-2, 229-pound All-American recruiting poster, had indeed lined up for the Lions in September, it's hard to imagine he could have done anything better for his beleaguered branch of the military than show millions of football fans every Sunday the kind of man the Army produces.

As it now stands, Campbell will spend the next year as a graduate assistant coach as he continues his officer training before being deployed.

To understand just how poorly timed the Army's re-interpretation of the Alternative Service Option has been, we need to go back to 2005.

Campbell had just finished an outstanding sophomore season at West Point and was facing a point of no return. Cadets who transfer before their junior year are freed from their obligation without penalty.


Vietnam vet and Lions coach Rod Marinelli was ready to welcome Campbell. (Gregory Shamus / Getty Images)

Campbell was torn, but his on-field success had led him to believe he had a future in football. Other football schools were actively trying to lure him away. He went to see then-Army coach Bobby Ross with the intention of transferring.

During that meeting Ross told him about the newly-expanded (in 2005) Alternative Service Option that releases those with "unique talents and abilities" from their five-year active duty commitments, requiring them instead to work in recruiting and public affairs. The talk convinced Campbell to stay at West Point. According to Ross and existing Army policy, if Campbell were good enough, he'd still get a crack at the NFL.

The policy, as observed at West Point, was already a point of contention at the service academies. The Naval Academy and Air Force were offering no such deferment of duty and, therefore, considered themselves at a recruiting disadvantage. All three service academies were operating under the same Department of Defense directive — issued in 1994 — but Army had unilaterally decided that playing professional sports qualified a cadet for alternative service.

Campbell suffered a knee injury his junior year but bounced back with a lights-out senior year. With it clear to all that Campbell would be eligible to play right away should he make an NFL team, he was invited to the scouting combine, where he impressed.

Projected as a safety (though Lions head coach Rod Marinelli would shift him back to linebacker), Campbell benched 225 24 times — the second most for any DB prospect at the combine — and ran a 4.56. He was projected as high as a fifth-rounder.

Campbell was the celebrity of Day 2 of the NFL Draft at Radio City Music Hall in April. Every profile of him made it clear he's the kind of guy you'd want fighting for your country or blowing up a wedge on a kickoff. Marinelli, a Vietnam veteran, selected Campbell in the seventh round and the crowd began chanting USA! USA! It was a public relations bonanza for the Army.


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View more photos >>Campbell rescheduled his final exams so he could finish them early and attend both rookie camp and minicamp with the Lions as he prepared to compete for a slot on the team.

Then, after three years of telling him he could pursue his football dream, the Army re-interpreted its policy and pulled the rug out from under him, notifying him the day before training camp began.

Campbell has acknowledged crying when he heard the news of the Army's policy change. "I didn't ask for it," he told the AP of the exemption. "But you should have never gave it to me if it wasn't going to happen."

Compare Campbell's case to that of Patriots running back and special teamer Kyle Eckel who played at Navy.

According to the Boston Globe, twice during his career at Annapolis, Eckel was recommended for dismissal by the school conduct board. Those recommendations were rejected by the administration and he graduated last in the class of '05. Seventeen months and a couple of subsequently dismissed assault charges later, Eckel was expelled from the Navy and ordered to repay the government $96,000 to defray part of the cost of his education.

So there he was in Week 6 last season, scoring the game's final touchdown in a 48-27 romp over the Cowboys in Dallas. He was living the dream. How? By being a nightmare as a Midshipman.

Campbell, meanwhile, has always played by the rules. But they just changed them on him, meaning he will not be eligible to resume his NFL dream until 2010.

Campbell enrolled at West Point in a time of war. He wasn't looking for the easy way out. He just saw an opportunity to live two dreams at once, playing in the NFL and serving his country, albeit as a recruiter instead of an artillery officer.

One of those dreams is on hold.

"I'm a soldier first and foremost and I go where they order me to go," he said after hearing the news.

Sounds like the kind of guy you'd want in your foxhole. And in your locker room. And in your recruiting office.

Caleb Campbell is missing the opportunity of a lifetime. And so is the U.S. Army.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8377544?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

[Old Tiger]

How am I stirring the pot?


I said the Army had a policy in place for this years draft that said if he gets drafted he would be relieved of his obligations to the Army. -Fact

He got drafted by the Detroit Lions -Fact

The Army Changed that policy so now he has to go honor his contract with the Army -Fact



Now what I don't get is he got drafted in that window so why should the changed policy effect him? IMO it shouldn't but go in effect till next years draft. And I think its crap that they do that after all the good publicity they got.


Stirring the pot....not hardly.
Stating an opinion....definately.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Go Blue
How am I stirring the pot?


I said the Army had a policy in place for this years draft that said if he gets drafted he would be relieved of his obligations to the Army. -Fact

He got drafted by the Detroit Lions -Fact

The Army Changed that policy so now he has to go honor his contract with the Army -Fact



Now what I don't get is he got drafted in that window so why should the changed policy effect him? IMO it shouldn't but go in effect till next years draft. And I think its crap that they do that after all the good publicity they got.


Stirring the pot....not hardly.
Stating an opinion....definately.

I agree with you, but the government changes policies all the time. I remember being told that if I stay in the military 20 years my medical would be free for me and my family for the rest of my life! Wrong that changed around the year I retired. Now we have to pay $460.00 per year and that will triple in the coming years. It is still a good deal, but the government lied. I just hope they help the wounded military members returning from the war.

[bullfrog_alumni_02]

personal feelings on both sides of this issue aside, the facts are that he was given an opportunity to go to a very prestigious military academy and become a commissioned officers upon completion. commissions aren't handed out like candy. so the army changing its mind about this shouldnt come as all that much of a shock. from all of the reports i have heard he is excited about the decision. either way he is going to become extremely successful individual. best of luck to him.

[Rabid Cougar]

He signed his name on the line. He goes where is told regardless of what was original "mission".
I am sure all of is buddies riding around in Humvees in Iraq and Afghanistan would appreciate a "change in mission".

[Diocletian]

When I was in the military there was a widely used term.. "skate"

It totaly applies to this situation. This guy should serve his contract out and defend his country.

And he defintely SHOULD cry when he gets the news, cause the ARMY is a sure fearful company to be employed by these days..

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
I said the Army had a policy in place for this years draft that said if he gets drafted he would be relieved of his obligations to the Army.
Sure they did! And that "policy" did not follow Dept of Defense Directives.

[Old Tiger]

ya they rip him of the NFL for 2 years just so he can be a grad assistant for the football team....good joby US army

[Eagle 1]

The Army Changed that policy so now he has to go honor his contract with the Army -Fact

That's not a fact, thats your opinion.
Here are the facts:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The U.S. Army revised its interpretation of U.S. Department of Defense policy two weeks ago regarding soldiers playing professional sports, requiring cadets to complete two years of active duty before applying for a release. Campbell and the Lions didn't officially receive notice of the change until the eve of training camp.

"The policy has not changed," Department of Defense spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Go Blue, I must disagree with your opinion. These young people joined the service academys and military for a reason. They know what comes along with all of that.

correct

not that i am a professional athlete, but as a Marine, i have known several former college or pro quality players of several sports. When someone goes to a military academy, they are not just signing a letter of intent. Their congressman (normally) has requested a spot for them in the next cadet class, an endorsement saying that the young man or woman is a quality candidate to serve as a commissioned officer in the US armed forces. Once they are accepted, they take the oath of enlistment and become active duty personnel in an educational status.

what this all means is that no one who becomes an athlete at a military academy has any doubts about what they are there for

since the education is free to all those accepted, the athletes must still be competitive as officer candidates and not just on the playing field. If a cadet is not believed to be able to ever take command of troops, then no amount of athletic ability will allow them to finish their degree and become fully active duty

for this reason, i don't understand why there would be any controversy over such an issue. If for some reason an athlete's main goal as a starter at an academy is to become a pro athlete and try not to fulfill the obligations of their service, then they shouldn't be there in the first place