weight lifting

[popcorn screen]

What are some good super/triple sets for chest and triceps?
Also, what do you folks feel is a good age for boys to start learning how to lift (very minimal weight)?

[westcoast54]

Originally posted by popcorn screen
What are some good super/triple sets for chest and triceps?
Also, what do you folks feel is a good age for boys to start learning how to lift (very minimal weight)?

I think the 6th grade. Bigger Faster Stronger has a developmental program. Kids start out with the bar (45lbs.) and work their way up. They do 2x12 I think on the major lifts. They can't increase their weight until they get both sets of 12 without any help and use proper form. When they increase their weight it's only 5lbs. I really like it.

[popcorn screen]

Can you find this on line? Wow 60 looks but only one response. This is a good topic; What is your viewpoint folks of the downlo?

[c-town_balla]

I dont know about age things...

but good things for triceps are:

close-grip bench
skull crushers
dips




.....several other things that I could describe but I don't the names

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Why would you want to do super and triple sets in weight lifting? I started working out when I got into the 7th grade and I turned out just fine.

[c-town_balla]

yeah I don't know why anyone would do triple set....I rarely do super-sets

[gatordaze]

If you are short on time or are trying to shred down for a contest try this tri-set. Bench-Dips-PecDeck. 50% of your max on bench, body weight on dips and pretty light on pecdeck as you will be fried. 10-12 reps bench, 6-8 reps dips, to failure on peck deck. Make sure to squeeze your chest at the top of each contraction. Obviously, as a tri-set it no rest between excercises, 2 minutes between sets and 3-4 sets. The go home rest and have advil ready for the day after tomorrow.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

There really isn't a fast way to get bigger or stronger, other than consistent time in the weight room. Heavier weight and less reps add muscle mass, lighter weight and more reps add definition. If you want to get in shape for football, do something in between that consistently and then go from heavy to normal to light to normal to heavy again. Trust me, I know from experience.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6806/abeefymecg3.png

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
There really isn't a fast way to get bigger or stronger, other than consistent time in the weight room. Heavier weight and less reps add muscle mass, lighter weight and more reps add definition. If you want to get in shape for football, do something in between that consistently and then go from heavy to normal to light to normal to heavy again. Trust me, I know from experience.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6806/abeefymecg3.png call the cops someone stole your chest....ahhh j/k bro

[catdaddy]

The Soviets and Bulgarians have shown that kids can begin lifting as early as 9. You did strees minimal weights. They don't have the structure or hormones to grow from the training. The benefit to early training is neural development. The nerves from the brain to the muscles increase in size/efficiency and movements/patterns are learned so when it's time to add weight, they are primed. I do disagree with allowing kids to max out in the 7th/8th grade. Very few boys have "dropped" that early and the connective tissue and growth plates aren't ready.

Big Blue and C-Town said it well. Go heavier and use compound (multi-joint) exercises. (If it's for you and not the young'uns)http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/characters/character0116.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

In all honesty you should let the kids start when they want to, you can't really push them into something like that. They may be passionate about it in the beginning but they will start to look at it as more of an obligation than something that they really want to do. I'm not trying to give tips on parenting, just that I have seen it happen in the people around me, and trust me, lifting weights and doing strenuous workouts can get old quick if you don't enjoy what you're doing...

[gatordaze]

One thing to consider is that training for muscle and training for performance are different. My twins are going into 8th grade and began training this past year.

They are training for sport and I have only let them learn 4 excercises. Bench Standard and Narrow Grip, Deep/Front Squats, Power Cleans and Lat Pull Downs. All else can be added when they master these fundamental excercises.

We focus on form over weight and full range of motion. They are the only kids in their class that do these excercises exclusivley. In fact they do Power Cleans the right way "Butt to Heels".

For the most part traditional weight training is based upon slow movement and I beleive trains people to be slow. Olympic movements like the Power Clean are explosive in nature and train for explosiveness.

I only wish that I had this insight when I was 14!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Power Cleans aren't a good lift to do, they can very easily injure someone's back. You should do Hang Cleans instead, they require more explosiveness and are the preferred lift in upper-level sports. Also, front squats aren't really necessary. If I were to suggest any lifts to do it would be Pause Squats, Lunges, Hang Cleans, Bench Press, and Incline/Seated Military Press. When they're older then you can move them into other lifts, but those are good to start with and will give them a great foundation.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Power Cleans aren't a good lift to do, they can very easily injure someone's back. You should do Hang Cleans instead, they require more explosiveness and are the preferred lift in upper-level sports. Also, front squats aren't really necessary. If I were to suggest any lifts to do it would be Pause Squats, Lunges, Hang Cleans, Bench Press, and Incline/Seated Military Press. When they're older then you can move them into other lifts, but those are good to start with and will give them a great foundation.

My NASM certification trumps you opinion.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
My NASM certification trumps you opinion.

I don't know what that is, but good for you!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
My NASM certification trumps you opinion.

By the way, what collegiate or professional team/players do you work for, since I looked up what NASM means?

[gatordaze]

National Academy of Sports Medicine.

Hang cleans are like cheater curls they empahisize a portion of the range motion and do nothing to activate the hip flexors and glutes If you rely on them it requires additional excerices to fill in the gaps.

They promote poor form in most that use them as the lifter is simply shrugging the weight up to get under it. Conversley, the power clean is initiated with the glutes and quads building explosive momentum to drive the bar up. At that point quickness is required to move the body into postion to catch the weight at the bottom of the squat and return to the standing position.

The hang clean is a light weight shrug and a 1/4 squat at best.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
By the way, what collegiate or professional team/players do you work for, since I looked up what NASM means?

NASM is a training certification that is widely used in the fitness industry. I do not train for a living but as an ex-body builder invested in my sport and knowledge by obtaining this certification.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
National Association of Sports Medicine.

Hang cleans are like cheater curls they empahisize a portion of the range motion and do nothing to activate the hip flexors and glutes If you rely on them it requires additional excerices to fill in the gaps.

They promote poor form in most that use them as the lifter is simply shrugging the weight up to get under it. Conversley, the power clean is initiated with the glutes and quads building explosive momentum to drive the bar up. At that point quickness is required to move the body into postion to catch the weight at the bottom of the squat and return to the standing position.

The hang clean is a light weight shrug and a 1/4 squat at best.

Like you said, it's all about proper technique. Being certified you should be knowledgeable enough to teach your son that. Now if we could move on to my previous question that would be great, because I'm really curious as to who you work for? I know a lot of guys who are registered also and they train pretty boys who go to the gym and want to look big and buff. I train with some of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world, and the current one is one of the most sought after in the business at any level and we are lucky to have him. I'm going to trust his judgment when we're doing our Hang Cleans and the workouts we're doing any day over someone who probably trains pretty boys and took a couple of classes and thinks they know everything about weight lifting, especially one that responds to advice that is given in the spirit of friendship and goodwill with the attitude that you have.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
ex-body builder

Point proven. These are workouts for football, not so you can have something pretty in the mirror to look at.

[gatordaze]

I let my performance in the Gym speak for itself. Anytime you wanna go! I am 45 so I won't hold you youth and inexperience against you. I also played College football and take advice from a NFL hall of famer on how I should train my kids.

As for attitude who died and made you king of the gym?

Re-read the thread I did'nt comment on your OPINION until you jumped on mine!

BTW Body Builders don't do olympic lifts which is why I recommend them for my kids.

[pirate4state]

:helpme: :1popcorn:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
I let my performance in the Gym speak for itself. Anytime you wanna go! I am 45 so I won't hold you youth and inexperience against you. I also played College football and take advice from a NFL hall of famer on how I should train my kids.

As for attitude who died and made you king of the gym?

Re-read the thread I did'nt comment on your OPINION until you jumped on mine!

BTW Body Builder don't do olympic lifts whisch is why I reccomend them for my kids.

I never jumped on your opinion and said you were stupid, I just gave a reason as to why power cleans weren't necessarily a good lift to do. I'm more than willing to go to the gym and work out any day, but I don't pretend to be the self-proclaimed king of it, nor do I think I will ever be. I am currently playing collegiate football and under the tutelage of a man who professional players come and train under and any professional team would hire immediately, and we have never and will never do power cleans just because they pose and unnecessary risk when there is a safer and just as effective alternative when done correctly. I have learned a lot in the two years that I have been in the program and have made leaps and bounds since I have been here so I think I know at least a little bit about how to train in preparation for football, because I don't want to be all show and no go.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I never jumped on your opinion and said you were stupid, I just gave a reason as to why power cleans weren't necessarily a good lift to do. I'm more than willing to go to the gym and work out any day, but I don't pretend to be the self-proclaimed king of it, nor do I think I will ever be. I am currently playing collegiate football and under the tutelage of a man who professional players come and train under and any professional team would hire immediately, and we have never and will never do power cleans just because they pose and unnecessary risk when there is a safer and just as effective alternative when done correctly. I have learned a lot in the two years that I have been in the program and have made leaps and bounds since I have been here so I think I know at least a little bit about how to train in preparation for football, because I don't want to be all show and no go.

And you don't know me from Adam. Every excercise poses a threat for injury, some say that full squats are dangerous. I beleive and have proven through my own experiences that full range of motion excercises that involve multiple joints are the best use of an athletes time.

If I could only do ONE excersize it would be Power Cleans! I never did these as a body builder.

The intent of my comments on this thread were to point out if I were to do it all over again, as I can with my kids, I would build a foundation of Olympic style lifts. I use to parrot everything that an adult told me too. It does not make it right. There are many opinions out there and you to may come to my conclusion someday.

Good luck with you athletic career.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by gatordaze
And you don't know me from Adam. Every excercise poses a threat for injury, some say that full squats are dangerous. I beleive and have proven through my own experiences that full range of motion excercises that involve multiple joints are the best use of an athletes time.

If I could only do ONE excersize it would be Power Cleans! I never did these as a body builder.

The intent of my comments on this thread were to point out if I were to do it all over again, as I can with my kids, I would build a foundation of Olympic style lifts. I use to parrot everything that an adult told me too. It does not make it right. There are many opinions out there and you to may come to my conclusion someday.

Good luck with you athletic career.

I've been lifting weights for a long time and I have experienced and learned a lot as I am sure you have too. We will both have our opinions on the matter, but just because I project my own doesn't mean that I am "parroting" what someone else told me to do. I know exactly what the intent of your comments were, and I can sense the condescending attitude that you have towards me, and that is fine, but I'm not going to have a pissing match about who knows more about lifting weights on a message board. I have given my advice, people can take it or leave it, but I am proof that you can look at and see that what I am doing is working very well. Like I said earlier, I have nothing but the best intentions in mind for any parent who is looking to guide their children in a strength and conditioning program, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

[gatordaze]

Works for me

[catdaddy]

Yikes, feels a little warm in here. Can we agree any activity for the youts is good and much better than endless hours of xbox or ps3. Any lift can be beneficial if taught and performed correctly and most good coaches start students out with a broomstick. I would add that push ups and pull ups should be a staple and most definitely it should be fun. I used the natural competitiveness between my boys to make it fun. I would throw out a statement about who could hold a handstand longer or who could do more pushups and it was on...

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Power Cleans aren't a good lift to do, they can very easily injure someone's back. You should do Hang Cleans instead, they require more explosiveness and are the preferred lift in upper-level sports. Also, front squats aren't really necessary. If I were to suggest any lifts to do it would be Pause Squats, Lunges, Hang Cleans, Bench Press, and Incline/Seated Military Press. When they're older then you can move them into other lifts, but those are good to start with and will give them a great foundation. I'd wait till 7th or 8th grade for cleans if you want to start your kids early.

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by pirate4state
:helpme: :1popcorn:

[Old Tiger]

i can garuntee you that lifting weights for body building is not the same as lifting for football

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by Go Blue
i can garuntee you that lifting weights for body building is not the same as lifting for football

I agree completly! That is why I was recommending Power Cleans, Bench, Full Squats, Dead Lifts and Pull Ups. Matter of fact if the "thought" of these excercises make you dread them, then you probably need to do them. These are the core excercises that I would teach an athlete. Body Builders do not typically do these excercises.

Multi joint excercises are great for athletes as they mimic sports activities.

Body Builders typically focus on each muscle independently.