Defensive scheme vs. spread

[popcorn screen]

Lets get fome fooseball talk going. You are playing a oneback team and the QB is out of the gun 90% of the time. Primarily in a 4 receiver set. Give me your fronts and stunts and what cov you run in the secondary.

[gatordaze]

10-1 gap control press man

[popcorn screen]

Daze - are you applying pressure to get to them before they get the pass off?

[LH Panther Mom]

:( :( You're talking beyond my fake zone. :p

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by gatordaze
10-1 gap control press man

this works if your kids are better than their kids.

kinda magic or tragic.

i think that a coach has to have more info than just a "spread team"

what is the offense really doing?
zone read?
spread wing T?
or actually throwing the ball with several packages of passes.....such as screens, 3 step drops, and 5 step drops?

what many schools do is a variation of the slpit.....and cov 3.

BTW- stunts and blitzes can really get you into trouble unless everyone is on the same page....sometimes best to play base and let the offense screw up :)

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by gatordaze
10-1 gap control press man I agree, but my sam and my will are walked out on the slot receivers taking me out of the 10-1 and putting me in Special. Probably going to run a twist up the middle to overwhelm the center and make the pocket collapse and force the QB to get rid of it before he's ready, hopefully to one of the slot guys on a post so my FS can either A pick it or B light that sucker's candle.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
this works if your kids are better than their kids.

Here is what i like about the 10-1 and why I feel your assessment is wrong. I feel the 10-1 actually levels the playing field a little bit. It is a misconception that you have to have better athletes for this to work. I disagree. I think that if you have good athletes running it you will be all the more successfull (see Celina), but anyone can run it and have success with it. The reason you can have success with it is that you teach your kids to be aggressive and get to the football. If you are out athleted you will certainly get outmanned from the get go if you try to teach your kids to sit and read. This only gives the offense the opportunity to lock you up while you are trying to figure out what's going on. In the 10-1 you are just going and then find the ball later. Your main job is get into the backfield ASAP only after you have gotten into the backfield do you worry about where the ball is. Also, if you don't have the kids to cover on the outside the 10-1 is perfect for you because you are bringing so much heat that the QB has 3 seconds max to get rid of it. Most kids can cover for 2-3 seconds because you are going to give him a 1 second cusion teach him to make contact to eat another second and tie the receiver up for another second all the while keeping a hand on his guy. The 10-1 is in your face aggressive football. The penetration naturally screws up the lateral movement of the wing T, and the option offenses. The pressure gets to the spread. It does not matter who you are, defenders in your backfield IS going to mess with your offense. Sure you may hit a homerun or two, but we will force a turnover or two in our favor.

[Old Tiger]

34...zone blitz the crap out of them and cause confusion

[bobcat1]

Green Monster is correct on all counts.:2thumbsup Don't forget it is fun to watch and I think it would have been awesome to play defense like that every play. It is telling the offense to "Go for what you know" defense.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
The reason no one does this is b/c it's unsound. If you're playing a true 10-1, then you can't cover. Ain't gonna happen. Besides, you're counting on being able to beat the blocks in 1 second and get to the QB in 2. Everytime you dont accomplish this, the offense will score. Also, what about tunnel, bubble, and RB screens? QB doesn't take 3 seconds in either play, and if all of your kids are upfield, then strike up the band. The key to defense is to run a sound scheme where the responsiblities and key reads overlap each other, and rep it enough in practice to execute it. If you teach it right and rep it enough, there will be no "sit and read". But there's absolutely nothing sound about playing 10 defenders in the box.

I am sorry but you are incorrect o prognosticator of sound and unsound. YOu do not go 10 years with 5 losses and 6 state titles with an unsound scheme. No one does unless you are turning out d1 athletes by the bag full each year. And Celina is not. We beat you by giving you no time to execute. Simple enough and of course you are right that we disguise exactly what you will see each play but it is still heat. We held a playoff spread team to 36 yards total offense and China Springs to 235 total yards of offense. That is not an unsound scheme. Not possible to do

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
The reason no one does this is b/c it's unsound. If you're playing a true 10-1, then you can't cover. Ain't gonna happen. Besides, you're counting on being able to beat the blocks in 1 second and get to the QB in 2. Everytime you dont accomplish this, the offense will score. Also, what about tunnel, bubble, and RB screens? QB doesn't take 3 seconds in either play, and if all of your kids are upfield, then strike up the band. The key to defense is to run a sound scheme where the responsiblities and key reads overlap each other, and rep it enough in practice to execute it. If you teach it right and rep it enough, there will be no "sit and read". But there's absolutely nothing sound about playing 10 defenders in the box. No one runs a TRUE 10-1. The 10-1 vs. Spread is really 5 downlinemen, 4 man to man cover guys on the receivers, 1 LB, and 1 FS. We are in a true man-to-man defense. My LB is locked in on your RB and my Safety is reading straight QB. I'm giving my 5 down a better chance to get through by not allowing you an extra helper. I'm also going to try to exploit both "A" gaps to force you to block my 2 A gap defenders with your 3 inside linemen (center and both guards) because I have done this, now you are out manned by 1 effectively eliminating your RB from slipping out becuase he has to help. While all this is going on, I'm still counting on one of my 2 A gap defenders to break free because I'm putting better athletes there than what you have to block him. My A gap kids are some of my best athletes period because I need to dominate your center to the point where he needs help EVERY play, is worried more about his block than making a good snap on the correct count, and is getting ripped by the QB in the huddle every play that he's getting his butt kicked. Now, you can show me on paper repeatedly that the 10-1 and it's variations are unsound and you will be right, ON PAPER. In reality though, I'm going to put my personel in places that give them the best opportunity for success. I also know that many O-Line coaches like to place their least effective blocker at center and I'm going to exploit this. I'm also going to watch film and find out which other lineman I need to pick on and I'm goig to try to overwhelm him as well. I also know that inevitably I will give up a big play. I know that I don't have the kind of kids Celina has and I know that I'm not Butch Ford with 30 years of experience running it, but I also know that part of the gimmick is that you think I'm unsound.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
No one runs a TRUE 10-1. The 10-1 vs. Spread is really 5 downlinemen, 4 man to man cover guys on the receivers, 1 LB, and 1 FS. We are in a true man-to-man defense. My LB is locked in on your RB and my Safety is reading straight QB. I'm giving my 5 down a better chance to get through by not allowing you an extra helper. I'm also going to try to exploit both "A" gaps to force you to block my 2 A gap defenders with your 3 inside linemen (center and both guards) because I have done this, now you are out manned by 1 effectively eliminating your RB from slipping out becuase he has to help. While all this is going on, I'm still counting on one of my 2 A gap defenders to break free because I'm putting better athletes there than what you have to block him. My A gap kids are some of my best athletes period because I need to dominate your center to the point where he needs help EVERY play, is worried more about his block than making a good snap on the correct count, and is getting ripped by the QB in the huddle every play that he's getting his butt kicked. Now, you can show me on paper repeatedly that the 10-1 and it's variations are unsound and you will be right, ON PAPER. In reality though, I'm going to put my personel in places that give them the best opportunity for success. I also know that many O-Line coaches like to place their least effective blocker at center and I'm going to exploit this. I'm also going to watch film and find out which other lineman I need to pick on and I'm goig to try to overwhelm him as well. I also know that inevitably I will give up a big play. I know that I don't have the kind of kids Celina has and I know that I'm not Butch Ford with 30 years of experience running it, but I also know that part of the gimmick is that you think I'm unsound.

Yeah what he said.....:clap: :clap:

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I am sorry but you are incorrect o prognosticator of sound and unsound. YOu do not go 10 years with 5 losses and 6 state titles with an unsound scheme. No one does unless you are turning out d1 athletes by the bag full each year. And Celina is not. We beat you by giving you no time to execute. Simple enough and of course you are right that we disguise exactly what you will see each play but it is still heat. We held a playoff spread team to 36 yards total offense and China Springs to 235 total yards of offense. That is not an unsound scheme. Not possible to do

it works there...and a few other places...but if it is really the best....why arnt others...such as bigger schools and colleges doin it?

i would never do it.....but it does seem to work there.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
it works there...and a few other places...but if it is really the best....why arnt others...such as bigger schools and colleges doin it?

i would never do it.....but it does seem to work there.


For the very reason you say what you do. Why not? It places a lot of faith in your players to do their homework and your coaches to do their jobs. Most of the time coaches do not trust their players that much. It works. We can prove it. But will you believe it when it fails for a while till you get your players and understanding caught up with your need to win.

[GreenMonster]

I think the reason few people run it is because they think it is unsound. On paper it is unsound. When you put 9 people on the line of scrimmage, a backer within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage, and a safety within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage most football people will determine it isn't sound. There is no help they say, and offensive coordinators love to beat this thing up with a piece of chalk. They talk about getting outside and throwing the ball all over the place. They also talk about how easy it would be to run the GT against and get all of their O-line out in front etc etc etc.

[Rabid Cougar]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I am sorry but you are incorrect o prognosticator of sound and unsound. YOu do not go 10 years with 5 losses and 6 state titles with an unsound scheme. No one does unless you are turning out d1 athletes by the bag full each year. And Celina is not. We beat you by giving you no time to execute. Simple enough and of course you are right that we disguise exactly what you will see each play but it is still heat. We held a playoff spread team to 36 yards total offense and China Springs to 235 total yards of offense. That is not an unsound scheme. Not possible to do


To answer the original question you hope that Mark Bell is not the coach of the spread team.
As far as the state Championship game YOU WERE HOLDING YOUR COLLECTIVE BREATH WITH 3 MINUTES TO GO. That is what a good spread offense can do to a 10-1

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
To answer the original question you hope that Mark Bell is not the coach of the spread team.
As far as the state Championship game YOU WERE HOLDING YOUR COLLECTIVE BREATH WITH 3 MINUTES TO GO. That is what a good spread offense can do to a 10-1 Wrong again kittybreath. We knew our kids would come through and they did. Just enough pressure for a pass to be off just enough for the game winning INT. I bet that QB was sore after that game. He played as good as anyone ever has in the spread against us and still came up just a little short. Pressure is tough on young minds, heck it's tough on Pros. Look what it has done to Dudavan McChoke of the Philadelphia Eagles.

[Rabid Cougar]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Wrong again kittybreath. We knew our kids would come through and they did. Just enough pressure for a pass to be off just enough for the game winning INT. I bet that QB was sore after that game. He played as good as anyone ever has in the spread against us and still came up just a little short. Pressure is tough on young minds, heck it's tough on Pros. Look what it has done to Dudavan McChoke of the Philadelphia Eagles.
Freaking pass bounced off the receivers face mask. Wasn't anybody around the QB.

In regards to original post.. 13 plays, 85 yards, 6:32 minutes. A rather Liberty Hillish TD drive from a spread offence with 10 passes against the 10-1 .

[westcoast54]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I agree, but my sam and my will are walked out on the slot receivers taking me out of the 10-1 and putting me in Special. Probably going to run a twist up the middle to overwhelm the center and make the pocket collapse and force the QB to get rid of it before he's ready, hopefully to one of the slot guys on a post so my FS can either A pick it or B light that sucker's candle.

I like my chances with my slots man-to-man on your LB's.

[OldNavy]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
To answer the original question you hope that Mark Bell is not the coach of the spread team.
As far as the state Championship game YOU WERE HOLDING YOUR COLLECTIVE BREATH WITH 3 MINUTES TO GO. That is what a good spread offense can do to a 10-1

I will give Coach Bell lots of credit, but after watching the film of that game numerous times, Coach Bell's defense is what made that game close. China Springs defenders were tough and got knocked down and got back up and made plays. Without their outstanding defense, 236 yards and 14 points is not that close.
As good as CS was last year, I don't think that offensive performance makes your point.

However, I don't know enough about Celina's defense to say it was a 10-1 or not, just that it was good enough to have success against a great quarterback, receiver and O line.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by westcoast54
I like my chances with my slots man-to-man on your LB's.

Well I like our 56 wins to 4 losses and a State Championship in our 4 years against 3A competition! 10-1 works at this level until proven otherwise!

[Matthew328]

IMO Celina does what ETB says.....they run what people think is the 10-1 all the time...because it looks the same all the time...Celina doesn't send 10 after the QB every time from what looks like to me....the secret is they confuse the hell outta people with the scheme and when they send the house they get there and when they don't send the house they still get there because 1. the blocking schemes are all screwy and 2. their kids are better than yours most of the time

I'm a defensive idiot but thats what it looks like to me..

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Daze...isn't Celina's defense really a 9-1-1? They do line up a lot with a MLB and a Free Safety. A 10-1 is pretty much saying that they have 10 on the LOS with a FS.

They are very active up front, and like someone else in the post said, their kids are better than most that they play. They are "go get it" kids that take good coaching and play hard every snap.

It was very impressive in the 4 games that I saw (3 on film and one in person from the other sideline).

[westcoast54]

Originally posted by gatordaze
Well I like our 56 wins to 4 losses and a State Championship in our 4 years against 3A competition! 10-1 works at this level until proven otherwise!

One of those 4 losses...a 44-14, should've been worse, shalacking by the eventual STATE CHAMPION in October of 2003. The 10-1 didn't defend the Spread that well on that night.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Dont know about that game, but I saw them in the playoffs agains the other state champion. Plain ol' out-athleted that night.
I always say, Ive never won a single game as a coach. Athletes, execution, and luck win football games. Most teams execute at pretty close to the same level, so 97% of the time, it comes down to athletes and luck.

I would agree that generally the better athletes will come out on top. However, I have witnessed numerous games over the years wherein the superior athletes were clearly outplayed due to technique, heart and will to win. I would put this percentage at a number substantially higher that the 3 percent you equate with the lesser athlete. This is where the coaching makes the difference.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
Freaking pass bounced off the receivers face mask. Wasn't anybody around the QB.

In regards to original post.. 13 plays, 85 yards, 6:32 minutes. A rather Liberty Hillish TD drive from a spread offence with 10 passes against the 10-1 .

Sour grapes Rabid Cougar? Look at the game as a whole you were clearly outplayed. Great game and best of luck to you next year.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Watched Friday Night Lights one too many times. Just b/c it appears that the greater athletes are just being outplayed, it's very rarely so. Dont forget the old adage of "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane". If they were truly great athletes, you'd see it on the field.
Ive seen alot of football games as a fan, player, and coach, and Ive never seen a truly outmatched team win. Ive seen teams with slightly less athletic ability find ways to win based on a lucky bounce(usually known only to those wearing headsets), one or two blown plays, or an untimely injury.
I know we've all bought into the Mojo mystique at some point, and we've all seen the Rocky movies. We all want to believe that the 5'10, 160 lb kid who runs a 5 flat can beat the D1 athlete b/c he's a tough, scrappy, hard-working kid; but outside of Hollywood and Disney does that happen. Rarely is a team that is simply outmatched victorious. Of course, there aren't many teams that can simply outmatch teams(ie Celina), and there aren't many teams that are simply outmatched(ie Venus). The higher in classification you get, the more evenly matched the teams are.

[trojan37]

Let's just wait and see the Celina-Whitehouse matchup. Then you'll see how they defend the spread.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Watched Friday Night Lights one too many times. Just b/c it appears that the greater athletes are just being outplayed, it's very rarely so. Dont forget the old adage of "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane". If they were truly great athletes, you'd see it on the field.
Ive seen alot of football games as a fan, player, and coach, and Ive never seen a truly outmatched team win. Ive seen teams with slightly less athletic ability find ways to win based on a lucky bounce(usually known only to those wearing headsets), one or two blown plays, or an untimely injury.
I know we've all bought into the Mojo mystique at some point, and we've all seen the Rocky movies. We all want to believe that the 5'10, 160 lb kid who runs a 5 flat can beat the D1 athlete b/c he's a tough, scrappy, hard-working kid; but outside of Hollywood and Disney does that happen. Rarely is a team that is simply outmatched victorious. Of course, there aren't many teams that can simply outmatch teams(ie Celina), and there aren't many teams that are simply outmatched(ie Venus). The higher in classification you get, the more evenly matched the teams are.

I too have seen alot of games as a fan, player and coach. You do not seem to hold as much stock in an individuals and/or teams ability to will themselves to win against better athletes. Teach them mentally and physically and they will perform. You seem to discount the mental aspects of the game which are tantamount to success. You utize Celina as an example to support you argument. Please look at the Madison Celina game from a couple of years ago. Noone can honestly believe Celina out athleted Madison. Celina beat them technically and mentally.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
No, I dont discount it, but EVERYONE does it. Like I said, there are no secrets in football. If Venus had a staff of GA Moore, Gordon Wood, Todd Dodge, and Sam Harrell on the staff, they'd still go 0-10.
Ive been on 2-8 teams and Ive been on 15-0 teams. Didn't do much different. Only difference was athletes.
As for Madison, no one can say that Celina had more speed than Madison, but athletes? Celina has some freakish athletes for a 3a team.
But, you're right, when you start talking about inner-city teams, the mental part of the game is a little more prevalent. When you have kids who don't know if they'll get to eat from day to day, football tends to take a backseat. But no, Celina was not an athletically-inferior team to Madison.

I guess it comes down to your interpretation of athletic versus mental toughness and technically sound. It seems as though in your view if you win with mental and technical ability you are the better athlete. With regard to Madison, from my perspective they were better athletically. I respect your opinion but I put more faith in the individual and teams desire to overcome obstacles (e.g. better athletes) and prevail. I will take a team of hard working mentally tough decent athletes over a team of individuals with superior athletic ability. Of course, all things equal everyone want the great athlets but I really think you do not put enough credence in very important aspects of the game. I guess that's why they play the game so we can sit back and pontificate theory. Its a great game and usually the best team wins superior athletes or not.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Watched Friday Night Lights one too many times. Just b/c it appears that the greater athletes are just being outplayed, it's very rarely so. Dont forget the old adage of "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane". If they were truly great athletes, you'd see it on the field.
Ive seen alot of football games as a fan, player, and coach, and Ive never seen a truly outmatched team win. Ive seen teams with slightly less athletic ability find ways to win based on a lucky bounce(usually known only to those wearing headsets), one or two blown plays, or an untimely injury.
I know we've all bought into the Mojo mystique at some point, and we've all seen the Rocky movies. We all want to believe that the 5'10, 160 lb kid who runs a 5 flat can beat the D1 athlete b/c he's a tough, scrappy, hard-working kid; but outside of Hollywood and Disney does that happen. Rarely is a team that is simply outmatched victorious. Of course, there aren't many teams that can simply outmatch teams(ie Celina), and there aren't many teams that are simply outmatched(ie Venus). The higher in classification you get, the more evenly matched the teams are.

No I have not. But I have watched the Celina Bobcats win over and over and we have not had the best athletes much of the time. We have had the best coaching all of the time. And we had the most heart. Best win in the out atheleted category would have to be the Quan Cosby 2000 Mart game with them on a 40 game streak and us on a 30. 21 - 17. G A said that was his greatest win ever. Of the several games we were out athleted over the last couple of years, Brownsboro from 06, Madison 06 come to mind right away. You really have never seen us play game in and out and do not understand that we expect to win not because we are the best but because we work the hardest and have the most heart with the best schemes and coaching for what we have.

YOu give Venus GA moore for 2 years and they would be a winning program in 3. and 500 in two maybe in one. He would teach them to play technically sound and put them in a position to win and they would learn that they could and in 3 years be a playoff contender I garauntee you. The same with coach Ford or Coach Elliot.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
But no, Celina was not an athletically-inferior team to Madison.

I understand what you are saying here. Madison may have had a handful of great athletes, but Celina had a couple of their own mixed with 40 other kids that were superior to what Madison's leftovers were. Over-all, Celina was the more athletic team on the field other than Shawnbrey McNeil.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I understand what you are saying here. Madison may have had a handful of great athletes, but Celina had a couple of their own mixed with 40 other kids that were superior to what Madison's leftovers were. Over-all, Celina was the more athletic team on the field other than Shawnbrey McNeil.

I disagree. Their athletes were better. Our boys play better more precise football. That is the point of the argument. Nothing wrong with their atheletes. We just play better as a team due to technique scheme and coaching not superior atheletes.

[gatordaze]

In my opinion Celina's success is based upon the following:

1) They play in 3A vrs the higher classifications
2) 135 of 240 boys play football
3) Most have played together using the high schools scheme since 1st grade
4) One coaching staff coaching all teams from 7th grade up.
5) They all run track and are extremely conditioned
6) They all weight train in a college level facility with coaches present and instructing
7) They field the best 22 players not the best 11 as most 3-A schools do. They are rested in the 4th qtr.
8) Intensity and technique is stressed over all else.
9) They are in the North Texas growth path. Many parents like myself considered the program when moving North (sorry Prosper)
10) They EXPECT to win!

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by gatordaze
In my opinion Celina's success is based upon the following:

1) They play in 3A vrs the higher classifications
2) 135 of 240 boys play football
3) Most have played together using the high schools scheme since 1st grade
4) One coaching staff coaching all teams from 7th grade up.
5) They all run track and are extremely conditioned
6) They all weight train in a college level facility with coaches present and instructing
7) They field the best 22 players not the best 11 as most 3-A schools do. They are rested in the 4th qtr.
8) Intensity and technique is stressed over all else.
9) They are in the North Texas growth path. Many parents like myself considered the program when moving North (sorry Prosper)
10) They EXPECT to win!

And that about sums it up..... Hey did you get some good pics of the 7 state tourny? I would like to see some

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
And that about sums it up..... Hey did you get some good pics of the 7 state tourny? I would like to see some

Unfortunately I could not get clearance from the tower to go! I have been told that I should plan ahead! What fun is that?

[bullfrog_alumni_02]

Against almost any offensive scheme I perfer a 4-3 defense, provided the atheles are there to run it properly. In my opinion the 4-3 is the defensive version of the spread offense. I also like the nickel package against the spread. 6 in the box and 5 backs for coverage, man or zone. Both allow you to hide your coverage and stunt wth different players/positions and run different schemes while still keeping the field covered and not giving any areas up to weakness. But both packages are very dependant on having the right players to play certain roles and the coaches being well versed in running them.

[rangerjoe33]

Originally posted by bullfrog_alumni_02
Against almost any offensive scheme I perfer a 4-3 defense, provided the atheles are there to run it properly. In my opinion the 4-3 is the defensive version of the spread offense. I also like the nickel package against the spread. 6 in the box and 5 backs for coverage, man or zone. Both allow you to hide your coverage and stunt wth different players/positions and run different schemes while still keeping the field covered and not giving any areas up to weakness. But both packages are very dependant on having the right players to play certain roles and the coaches being well versed in running them.

The 4-2-5 is becoming a more commonly used defense that takes advantage of the 6 - box 5 - secondary...

[JR2004]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
I guess it comes down to your interpretation of athletic versus mental toughness and technically sound. It seems as though in your view if you win with mental and technical ability you are the better athlete. With regard to Madison, from my perspective they were better athletically. I respect your opinion but I put more faith in the individual and teams desire to overcome obstacles (e.g. better athletes) and prevail. I will take a team of hard working mentally tough decent athletes over a team of individuals with superior athletic ability. Of course, all things equal everyone want the great athlets but I really think you do not put enough credence in very important aspects of the game. I guess that's why they play the game so we can sit back and pontificate theory. Its a great game and usually the best team wins superior athletes or not.

Celina had the better team as a whole in 2006 when we played them. They didn't send out a group of players to play against us that were garbage. Our team that year at Madison was nowhere near as good as the 2005 version. Sure we had the two fastest individual players in McNeal and Larry Johnson, but we didn't have the best line on either side of the ball or the best lineman. Didn't help matters having so many guys injured coming into that game. I believe I told Kep right after the West game that we were going to get beat by a minimum of 2 TD's and it obviously turned out far worse than that.

Heck some of our coaches saw the writing on the wall early in the season when SOC's RB had a 150 against our defense. They did what they could with the defense, but they just didn't have the athletes to run the scheme they wanted to. They had to play a whole lot of "bend but don't break" in 2006 and at times it was hard to watch because you knew that wasn't what they wanted to do. I also remember several of our players talking at length about how good a couple of those guys on the line were for Celina and how athletic they were.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
When you have kids who don't know if they'll get to eat from day to day, football tends to take a backseat.

True statement here. I'm sure KA can probably attest to this as well with the school he's at. I remember Coach Lewis was quoted in the DMN talking about this the week Madison played Celina. He's still there and he's still making sure those kids eat breakfast and lunch at school every single day because many of them aren't guaranteed anything once they head home. When you have things like that to think about football or any other sport is secondary.

[Runnin Panther]

Originally posted by gatordaze
In my opinion Celina's success is based upon the following:

1) They play in 3A vrs the higher classifications
2) 135 of 240 boys play football
3) Most have played together using the high schools scheme since 1st grade
4) One coaching staff coaching all teams from 7th grade up.
5) They all run track and are extremely conditioned
6) They all weight train in a college level facility with coaches present and instructing
7) They field the best 22 players not the best 11 as most 3-A schools do. They are rested in the 4th qtr.
8) Intensity and technique is stressed over all else.
9) They are in the North Texas growth path. Many parents like myself considered the program when moving North (sorry Prosper)
10) They EXPECT to win!

Are you sure you are not talking about Liberty Hill, because that sure sounds like us.

[Matthew328]

Celina is much better athletically than they want us to believe especially up front...they have some great athletes up front

[popcorn screen]

didnt mean for this to be a Celina thread.......Saw two teams play last year in WF. One was Stephenville the other Rider. Both teams had lots of talent and wide open on offense. I know we are talking different classifications, but I am talking about how you line up to an offense similar to those two teams. Tell me how you stop Rider or Stephenville. No, I dont live in any of those areas, just saw a great game and you figure that they see that offense in practice a lot going up against each other.....but they couldn't stop each other. Oh and on a side note, Celina has very good athletes. It is due to belief, a good work out program, coaching and attitude. In the game I saw, they had some kids that can go.

[PPHSfan]

The spread is simple to defend. You just rush 3 all night and cover with 8. Jason and I have seen it work to perfection.

[popcorn screen]

Who is checking the QB if you are dropping 8? If you rush 3, someone is running for positive yardage.

[mistanice]

Originally posted by trojan37
Let's just wait and see the Celina-Whitehouse matchup. Then you'll see how they defend the spread.


Don't know how I found this thread but ....:inlove: :inlove: :D

[alaskacat]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I understand what you are saying here. Madison may have had a handful of great athletes, but Celina had a couple of their own mixed with 40 other kids that were superior to what Madison's leftovers were. Over-all, Celina was the more athletic team on the field other than Shawnbrey McNeil.

I think now that is the point. McNeil was held to less than 100 yards.

Celina just has a way of neutralizing one main threat, disrupt everything else in the confusion to find something else that works, and flat get after you leaving little time to find a way out which results in more confusion and a turnover etc.

Then they control the tempo, and force you to play catchup, IE Liberty Hill as an example...and it works 99% of the time

[Rabid Cougar]

Yea Celina really controlled China Spring spread last year in the 07 State Game.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
Yea Celina really controlled China Spring spread last year in the 07 State Game.
They did hold them to 17 points under their yearly PPG avg

[Rabid Cougar]

and China Spring held Celina to 24 points below their average.

CS had an 85 yard 15 play TD drive that took 6:45 minutes off the clock with just 4 running plays going excusively out of the spread.

With the spread, it doesn't matter if you go man and bring the house (as Celina did almost every play), or rush 3 and go zone , if you got the right QB and receivers... there is always someone open. The defensive coordinator is praying with all his worth that the QB doesn't find him.

[Emerson1]

Dude get over it. You lost, come join the club

[Rabid Cougar]

Oh I don't take anything away from Celina winning the Championship. It was a great game .

I just don't see them through Orange colored glasses.

[Da Mules]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
The spread is simple to defend. You just rush 3 all night and cover with 8. Jason and I have seen it work to perfection.

Is that what PP did against Muleshoe? ;)

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by Da Mules
Is that what PP did against Muleshoe? ;)
I also remember A&M trying to do that against TTU, once again that failed.

[JR2004]

If I remember correctly from last year, Abilene came out and had nine in coverage against Hebron most of the game and rushed just two guys. It completely screwed up everything for the Hawks offensively.

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by JR2004
If I remember correctly from last year, Abilene came out and had nine in coverage against Hebron most of the game and rushed just two guys. It completely screwed up everything for the Hawks offensively.
Run the ball?

[JR2004]

Originally posted by WylieBulldog92
Run the ball?

Didn't run the ball well at all. They were completely thrown out of whack.

It reminded me of a game between Buffalo and Miami back in 1992 or so. No one was really stopping the Bills offense at the time and Don Shula came out and rushed just two lineman. The Bills were confused beyond belief as to what to do.

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by JR2004
Didn't run the ball well at all. They were completely thrown out of whack.

It reminded me of a game between Buffalo and Miami back in 1992 or so. No one was really stopping the Bills offense at the time and Don Shula came out and rushed just two lineman. The Bills were confused beyond belief as to what to do.
Geezus! If you can't run the ball against 2 rushing linemen you have problems!

[alaskacat]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
Yea Celina really controlled China Spring spread last year in the 07 State Game.


Who won?....Point made