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espn1
07-09-2008, 12:32 AM
by Rob Lever Tue Jul 8, 9:43 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - China's economy will overtake that of the United States by 2035 and be twice its size by midcentury, a study released Tuesday by a US research organization concluded.

The report by economist Albert Keidel of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said China's rapid growth is driven by domestic demand more than exports, which will be sustainable over the coming decades.

"China's economic performance clearly is no flash in the pan," Keidel writes.

"Its growth this decade has averaged more than 10 percent a year and is still going strong in the first half of 2008. Because its success in recent decades has not been export-led but driven by domestic demand, its rapid growth can continue well into the 21st century, unfettered by world market limitation."

Keidel, who has worked as a World Bank economist and US Treasury official, said the rise of China to the world's biggest economy will happen regardless of the method of calculation.

Under current market-based estimates, China's gross domestic product is about three trillion dollars compared to 14 trillion for the United States.

Based on a more controversial purchasing power parity (PPP) measure used by the World Bank and others to correct low labor-cost distortions, he said China's GDP is roughly half of that of the United States.

"Despite this low starting point, if China's expansion is anywhere near as fast as the earlier expansion of other East Asian modernizers at a comparable stage of development, the power of compound growth rates means that China's economy will be larger than America's by midcentury -- no matter how it is converted to dollars," Keidel wrote.

"Indeed, PPP valuation distinctions will diminish and eventually disappear."

Keidel's calculations suggest that using the PPP method, China will catch up with the United States as an economic power by 2020, with an equivalent GDP of 18 trillion dollars.

Based on the more commonly accepted market method, the turning point will come by 2035. By 2050, he estimated Chinese GDP at some 82 trillion dollars compared with 44 trillion for the United States.

The dramatic economic change will make help China become a more important power in other areas including military and diplomatic affairs, according to Keidel.

"China's financial clout will spill into every conceivable dimension of international relations," he writes.

"Leadership of international institutions will gravitate toward China. This movement could include the equivalents at that time of the United Nations, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, regional international development banks, and more specialized bodies. Various headquarters could shift to Beijing and Shanghai."

He said the United States "will have an important secondary influence, like Europe, but it will need to compromise, and its sphere for unilateral action will be increasingly curtailed."

However, the Chinese standard of living will remain lower -- with per capita GDP in China between half and two-thirds the level of that in the United States in 2050, according to the report.

Keidel said poverty will remain a significant problem in China for decades despite considerable progress.

"It is hard to overemphasize how poor China was 30 years ago," he said.

But amid the economic boom, he noted: "Measures of inequality in China have increased dramatically since 1978, raising the possibility that dissatisfied groups left behind by its booming economy will eventually pose problems serious enough to derail its longterm growth."

Another significant hurdle for China will be handling the social problems accompanying its economic rise.

"For a country with China's rapid pace of change, social unrest seems inevitable," he said.

He also said that Communist Party rule poses possibly "its greatest barrier to sustained rapid economic expansion" but that China "has a real chance of continuing its introduction of participatory governing mechanisms, including an eventually more broad-based system of elections."

gatordaze
07-09-2008, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
I can't believe that none of the experts have ever considered this idea. China's population is the reason for this(as well as the abandonment of communist policies). The reason for the population explosion is that the Chinese REALLY like to have sons, so they continue to have kids until they finally have a son, and giving the females up for adoption(the reason for the availability of Chinese female babies for adoption in the US) and in some extreme cases, killing them. So, the future population of China looks to be around 80-90% male. Unless science comes a LONG way in the meantime, two boys dont make a baby. :thinking:

It wont be a problem for them as they will have an army large enough to just come take our women! You think war over oil gets people riled up!

wimbo_pro
07-09-2008, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
They dont want American women. You're talking about a culture that expects women to crush the bones in their feet just to make them smaller so they're a little more attractive. Can you imagine American women in that enviornment? They'd bring them back in a month!

HaHaHa!! Actually, the foot binding you refer to is a Japanese thing, not Chinese.

I say that the more economically interdependent we become with China, the less likely we will come to blows with them. As they continue to pile more and more money into American businesses and industries over here, why would anyone think they would then want to destroy that investment? If there is one thing you can definitely say about the Chinese, it's that they are business people...their history over the last many centuries shows this.

My issue with them is "fair" trade. IMO, it isnt fair at the moment. We need to get this fixed soon.

ronwx5x
07-09-2008, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
I can't believe that none of the experts have ever considered this idea. China's population is the reason for this(as well as the abandonment of communist policies). The reason for the population explosion is that the Chinese REALLY like to have sons, so they continue to have kids until they finally have a son, and giving the females up for adoption(the reason for the availability of Chinese female babies for adoption in the US) and in some extreme cases, killing them. So, the future population of China looks to be around 80-90% male. Unless science comes a LONG way in the meantime, two boys dont make a baby. :thinking:

China has a law that families are only allowed one child, regardless of whether it is a boy or girl. There have been stories of parents killing female children in order to try for a boy in the one child society, but their population is no longer growing, but rather shrinking. Therefore they do not continue to have children.:doh: :doh:

ronwx5x
07-09-2008, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by wimbo_pro
HaHaHa!! Actually, the foot binding you refer to is a Japanese thing, not Chinese.

I say that the more economically interdependent we become with China, the less likely we will come to blows with them. As they continue to pile more and more money into American businesses and industries over here, why would anyone think they would then want to destroy that investment? If there is one thing you can definitely say about the Chinese, it's that they are business people...their history over the last many centuries shows this.

My issue with them is "fair" trade. IMO, it isnt fair at the moment. We need to get this fixed soon.

Ha, ha ha. Actually the footbinding you refer to is a Chinese thing, not Japanese. :devil:

Check this link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~ealc100/Group3/Foot-Binding.html

sahen
07-09-2008, 11:02 AM
predicting something like this 30 years in advance is like predicting who will win the world series in 30 years...way too many variables in it and things typically never go the same way for 30 years....china could have a revolution that kills their economic growth, China could end up in war, or even more likely the price of oil could shoot high enough to really hurt their economic growth....there wasnt too many people predicting we would become the superpower we are prior to WWII....there is just too many unknowns to assume that China can maintain their economic growth w/ no problems for the next 30 or 50 years....

DDBooger
07-09-2008, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by sahen
predicting something like this 30 years in advance is like predicting who will win the world series in 30 years...way too many variables in it and things typically never go the same way for 30 years....china could have a revolution that kills their economic growth, China could end up in war, or even more likely the price of oil could shoot high enough to really hurt their economic growth....there wasnt too many people predicting we would become the superpower we are prior to WWII....there is just too many unknowns to assume that China can maintain their economic growth w/ no problems for the next 30 or 50 years.... you hinted at it. natural resources. China will need it. hell we all need it. but a country of 1.5 billion or however many, will need plenty of it. it would be my small speculation that if we were to come to blows with china it would be over remaining oil deposits and rights to certain areas. alternative fuels may have another reason to come into fruition, such as preventing wars over natural resources. But their search for these resources is expanding their sphere of influence (africa). Development of their navy will be the tell tale sign of their ambitions. but I may be wrong.:rolleyes: :D

Macarthur
07-09-2008, 04:50 PM
However, the Chinese standard of living will remain lower -- with per capita GDP in China between half and two-thirds the level of that in the United States in 2050, according to the report.

Keidel said poverty will remain a significant problem in China for decades despite considerable progress.

"It is hard to overemphasize how poor China was 30 years ago," he said.

But amid the economic boom, he noted: "Measures of inequality in China have increased dramatically since 1978, raising the possibility that dissatisfied groups left behind by its booming economy will eventually pose problems serious enough to derail its longterm growth."

Another significant hurdle for China will be handling the social problems accompanying its economic rise.

"For a country with China's rapid pace of change, social unrest seems inevitable," he said.

He also said that Communist Party rule poses possibly "its greatest barrier to sustained rapid economic expansion" but that China "has a real chance of continuing its introduction of participatory governing mechanisms, including an eventually more broad-based system of elections."

This is the critical part of the article and one of the main reasons I think China will reach a breaking point. There is no way a communist government can sustain that type of growth economically. One will have to give because of the reasons stated above.

Also, one thing that the article doesn't mention is that China is consuming natural resources at an alarming rate. The US historically has had it's own natural resources to grow it's economy upon.

Another problem for China is pollution. IT is an extremely polluted country and the population is becoming very restless.

wimbo_pro
07-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by ronwx5x
Ha, ha ha. Actually the footbinding you refer to is a Chinese thing, not Japanese. :devil:

Check this link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~ealc100/Group3/Foot-Binding.html

Thank you Ron...my info was apparently wrong. The Japanese carried with them apparently. In fact, my one of the chinese engineers who works for me told me that!! He's outa here!!!!

STANG RED
07-10-2008, 05:57 PM
Yeah I love these brilliant predictors of the future, because they are always right. By the way, where is my flying car, ray gun, robot, and virtual sex helmet???:mad:

wimbo_pro
07-10-2008, 10:41 PM
Your virtual sex helmet was last seen in your transponder.