Breaking news!!! Texas shouldn't have removed the 400 children.

[Sweetwater Red]

:(

Texas should not have removed the more than 400 children it took from a polygamist sect's ranch, an appeals court ruled today.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.ruling/index.html

[BILLYFRED0000]

I already knew that. I just wondered if the good ol boy network was going to follow the law or their prejudice. In San Angelo they followed their prejudice sure as shootin. I should know I grew up less than a half hour from there. Say LDS (Mormon) and half the people probably throw up their arms in anger and the other half just think it.

[SWMustang]

they were brainwashing 14 year old girls into having sex with old dudes to go to heaven. This is about hiding behind religion to commit felony crimes, not the LDS church.

[kepdawg]

:1popcorn:

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by kepdawg
:1popcorn:

Kep, move over. I want to sit on the sidelines with you on this one.:wave:

[Ranger Mom]

While I am not 100% convinced that these kids should have been taken away from their mothers like they were....I understand CPS's decision behind it, according to their standard. "If one child is being abused, you take ALL the children"

It seems to me with so many kids running around all fathered by the same few men, it's one big perverted "fornication-fest" and they are all pretty much a family!!

I think the MEN (and I use that word loosely) should have all been the ones that were taken off the compound and neutered!!

[CenTexSports]

Darn, if you hear of anymore of these going on please call me!!!

BR549

it's one big perverted "fornication-fest"

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
While I am not 100% convinced that these kids should have been taken away from their mothers like they were....I understand CPS's decision behind it, according to their standard. "If one child is being abused, you take ALL the children"

It seems to me with so many kids running around all fathered by the same few men, it's one big perverted "fornication-fest" and they are all pretty much a family!!

I think the MEN (and I use that word loosely) should have all been the ones that were taken off the compound and neutered!!

RM, I don't think the state of Texas can do that either!:eek:

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Darn, if you hear of anymore of these going on please call me!!!

BR549

it's one big perverted "fornication-fest"

That wasn't the first "word" that came to mind, but you know we have some rules here!!:D

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I already knew that. I just wondered if the good ol boy network was going to follow the law or their prejudice. In San Angelo they followed their prejudice sure as shootin. I should know I grew up less than a half hour from there. Say LDS (Mormon) and half the people probably throw up their arms in anger and the other half just think it.

I'm not gonna sit on the sidelines on this one there Billyfreedo. When you say "follow the law" where do you put 11-17 yr old girls that ARE pregnant in your definition of "following the law". I know I'm probably going to get this thread closed but let's just say I have an especially special interest in that situation, and I'd like to hear your defense of these pregnant and married teens, and Yes some Pre-teens that are pregnant or already have kids. Saddle up Freedo and let me hear your defense.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
That wasn't the first "word" that came to mind, but you know we have some rules here!!:D

I bet you were thinking "freak-fest" weren't you :)

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I bet you were thinking "freak-fest" weren't you :)

close!;)

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
While I am not 100% convinced that these kids should have been taken away from their mothers like they were....I understand CPS's decision behind it, according to their standard. "If one child is being abused, you take ALL the children"

It seems to me with so many kids running around all fathered by the same few men, it's one big perverted "fornication-fest" and they are all pretty much a family!!

I think the MEN (and I use that word loosely) should have all been the ones that were taken off the compound and neutered!!


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[BobcatBenny]

I'll stand up here with BillyFRED0000. Follow the law.

As much as I disagree with the FLDS on just about everything, the thing that I am fairly sure about, is that CPS broke the law. And ... as it looks like, the FLDS did not.

Now, might there be a child abuser among the many members of the FLDS church, yep. Just ... as it turns out ... there was one at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano.

One of the most amazing brainwashings that has occured in this country, is the big dose of TOTC (That's "Think of the Children") that we swallow. Which is where you use children as an excuse to do anything. Especially, to infringe upon First Amendment rights.

From my viewpoint, we (those of us outside of the FLDS compound) live in a world or environment that is far more dangerous to our children than those kids with-in the FLDS compound.

Now ... if you want to talk about polygamy, our society has digressed or decayed into a completely immoral society that informally practices polygamy on a grander scale than any LDS faction ever could. My opinion.

Bring on all the righteous indignation! :p

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by kepdawg
:1popcorn:

I think I'm gonna need more popcorn!

:1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn:

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
I'll stand up here with BillyFRED0000. Follow the law.

As much as I disagree with the FLDS on just about everything, the thing that I am fairly sure about, is that CPS broke the law. And ... as it looks like, the FLDS did not.

Now, might there be a child abuser among the many members of the FLDS church, yep. Just ... as it turns out ... there was one at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano.

One of the most amazing brainwashings that has occured in this country, is the big dose of TOTC (That's "Think of the Children") that we swallow. Which is where you use children as an excuse to do anything. Especially, to infringe upon First Amendment rights.

From my viewpoint, we (those of us outside of the FLDS compound) live in a world or environment that is far more dangerous to our children than those kids with-in the FLDS compound.

Now ... if you want to talk about polygamy, our society has digressed or decayed into a completely immoral society that informally practices polygamy on a grander scale than any LDS faction ever could. My opinion.

Bring on all the righteous indignation! :p

I agree with you about the decay of our society. And, if part of that decay involves breaking the law, (child abuse, more than 1 wife, etc.) then there are laws against it, and if caught, those perpetrators are brought to justice. One thing that is a fact, not an opinion, is that CPS DID NOT break the law in removing those children. The appellate court may have ruled that the mass removal of all the underage children in the compound was too broad a stroke, but they did not BREAK THE LAW as you so ignorantly put it. If so, why did the judge in San Angelo agree to the removal? Did she break the law? What you don't understand (ignorance) is that CPS makes no decisions on their own about such things. A judge somewhere approves or disapproves every removal that they make. OK Bobcat, the last thing I want to ask you, is this: When there were up to 30 underage PREGNANT girls on that compound, and you had a 15 yr old daughter visiting out there for a couple of years, would you feel OK about that? Did you notice that out of the 430 children that were removed only 46 of that number were male? Why? Because the boys are shipped off to Utah or Arizona to work or are just put out on the streets (the lost boys). The El Dorado compound is nothing short of a baby factory. The younger boys are gotten rid of because they represent competition for the older men. Have you not listened to the numerous interviews of the women that have escaped from there and their accounts of what goes on? When a girl has her first menstrual cycle, she is immediately assigned a spiritual husband and is then a possession of that husband. Women or children that have miscarriages are shipped out to one of the other compounds because they are seen as "defective inventory". No righteous indignation here, but if all this is OK for you to go on, then you need to run for state office and get some laws changed that allow 50 yr old men to have sex with 13 yr old girls. You obviously do not understand or are not familiar with the Texas Family Code and what is considered lawful and unlawful. I don't mean to come across like a G$$ know it all, but unfortunately on this subject I know more than I wish I did. Trust me, I know more about this case than I am able to say, and it is way more sick than you can even imagine. What has been released to the media doesn't scratch the surface. There, I got that off my chest. I'm ready to start talking about football.

[Old Tiger]

If they let these people get away with this then everyone else will see this as a "loop hole" in the system and use the same defense in similar situations.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny


Now, might there be a child abuser among the many members of the FLDS church, yep. Just ... as it turns out ... there was one at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano.

This is not a case of a rogue child abuser - this is a systematic approach that involved everyone at that compound - from the men committing the offense to the women who condoned it.


Originally posted by BobcatBenny
One of the most amazing brainwashings that has occured in this country, is the big dose of TOTC (That's "Think of the Children") that we swallow. Which is where you use children as an excuse to do anything. Especially, to infringe upon First Amendment rights.



I don't totally disagree, but this is one case where TOTC is merited.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
I'll stand up here with BillyFRED0000. Follow the law.

As much as I disagree with the FLDS on just about everything, the thing that I am fairly sure about, is that CPS broke the law. And ... as it looks like, the FLDS did not.
:p

So all those pregnant underage girls (and those who already HAVE children) all got that way LEGALLY???

That place is nothing but pedophile heaven!!:mad: :mad:

Blaming CPS is like blaming Bush for EVERYTHING.....I don't claim to be that informed but I have the common sense to know that one person/organization doesn't make a decision like this ON THEIR OWN!!!

[Phil C]

Shame on Texas!


;)

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by nobogey72
I agree with you about the decay of our society. And, if part of that decay involves breaking the law, (child abuse, more than 1 wife, etc.) then there are laws against it, and if caught, those perpetrators are brought to justice. One thing that is a fact, not an opinion, is that CPS DID NOT break the law in removing those children. The appellate court may have ruled that the mass removal of all the underage children in the compound was too broad a stroke, but they did not BREAK THE LAW as you so ignorantly put it. If so, why did the judge in San Angelo agree to the removal? Did she break the law? What you don't understand (ignorance) is that CPS makes no decisions on their own about such things. A judge somewhere approves or disapproves every removal that they make. OK Bobcat, the last thing I want to ask you, is this: When there were up to 30 underage PREGNANT girls on that compound, and you had a 15 yr old daughter visiting out there for a couple of years, would you feel OK about that? Did you notice that out of the 430 children that were removed only 46 of that number were male? Why? Because the boys are shipped off to Utah or Arizona to work or are just put out on the streets (the lost boys). The El Dorado compound is nothing short of a baby factory. The younger boys are gotten rid of because they represent competition for the older men. Have you not listened to the numerous interviews of the women that have escaped from there and their accounts of what goes on? When a girl has her first menstrual cycle, she is immediately assigned a spiritual husband and is then a possession of that husband. Women or children that have miscarriages are shipped out to one of the other compounds because they are seen as "defective inventory". No righteous indignation here, but if all this is OK for you to go on, then you need to run for state office and get some laws changed that allow 50 yr old men to have sex with 13 yr old girls. You obviously do not understand or are not familiar with the Texas Family Code and what is considered lawful and unlawful. I don't mean to come across like a G$$ know it all, but unfortunately on this subject I know more than I wish I did. Trust me, I know more about this case than I am able to say, and it is way more sick than you can even imagine. What has been released to the media doesn't scratch the surface. There, I got that off my chest. I'm ready to start talking about football.

Great post my friend!

And to those of you that dont know. I can attest that nobogey is in a position to know all the facts about this case, but can only say as much as he has said here.

Dont swallow what some in the unltra liberal media are telling you about all this. If you knew all the true facts, or even as little as I know to be factual. It would make you sick to your stomachs. And if it were you or I that was behaving in the manor of these men on that compound, we would be locked away with a butt buddy for a very long time. And rightfully so!

[Ranger Mom]

Didn't this decision yesterday come down in AUSTIN?????


Well, there ya go!!:crazy:

[BobcatBenny]

nobogey, I am glad that you care. We must care.

kepdawg, get out your popcorn.

Did you read that I do not agree with anything that the FLDS does? But as distasteful as I might personally find their practices, our government and its officials are required to operate with-in the law.

You do not have to be convinced that the judge and the CPS agents broke the law. I am. And . . . there are a lot of people that agree with me, especially the Texas Court of Appeals.

Texas Court of Appeals, 3rd District, said a trial judge erred when she ordered that 468 children be removed from the FLDS ranch in Eldorado.

The panel said that Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) failed to show a “danger to the physical health or safety of the children” or an “urgent need for protection of the children.” Under the Texas Family Code, both are required before a child can be taken from the home.

And I find an abusive government far more distasteful than any small group of people that are able to live between our laws.

CPS did the right thing when they started to investigate a call they received. They are required to by law.

And ... the CPS encountered the FLDS, who were not willing to incriminate themselves. Big Surprise!

But ... this practice CPS deploys with snatching peoples kids and unlawfully interogating a minor has got to stop! Investigate!!!

And you want to know what the CPS and other Texas law enforcement officials would have discovered if they had investigated first? ...They would have found that a lady in Colorado made a false report. Now ... there is a law that was broken. Enforce it!

Instead ... we have a CPS agent purjuring themself in front of a judge that decided to ignore the fact that it was obvious fabrication and granted an emergency removal order based upon TATC (Think about the Children) emotion instead of law.

Then ... if we as a nation find that baby factories are distasteful, then we can start believing it. There are easier baby factories to target than the FLDS. Open your eyes and look around.

Funny thing is ... I believe it was not that long ago that women of the Catholic faith were baby factories. Am I the only one that remembers that?

Indignate at will! :eek:

[Ranger Mom]

As a child who WAS molested from the age of 7 to 14......I consider this way more than a "baby factory!"

It is a sick, twisted, perverted way of life......and I feel for every single girl who has had to deal with that and been led to believe that it is "normal and Godly!":mad: :mad:

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
As a child who WAS molested from the age of 7 to 14......I consider this way more than a "baby factory!"

It is a sick, twisted, perverted way of life......and I feel for every single girl who has had to deal with that and been led to believe that it is "normal and Godly!":mad: :mad:

Also RM there was a time when Utah allowed men more than one wife before they became a state. Utah wanted to join the union and but the US wouldn't allow them on that point. Utah willingly agreed to abide by USA laws among which included only one wife per husband. This was by agreement but some of them are rebelling against this law. I also sometimes think that they are using religion to justify preverted behavior.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
As a child who WAS molested from the age of 7 to 14......I consider this way more than a "baby factory!"

It is a sick, twisted, perverted way of life......and I feel for every single girl who has had to deal with that and been led to believe that it is "normal and Godly!":mad: :mad: wow RM, sorry to hear that! I worked with abused children. nothing sadder than to see a child missing a father who sexually, physically and emotionally abused them. sick. lots of mothers who pimp out their children as well. there is a whole world people just don't see, ugly.

[SWMustang]

Is there concrete evidence girls younger than 17 had kids? I'm reading conflicting information.

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
As a child who WAS molested from the age of 7 to 14......I consider this way more than a "baby factory!"

It is a sick, twisted, perverted way of life......and I feel for every single girl who has had to deal with that and been led to believe that it is "normal and Godly!":mad: :mad:
Well ... I certainly agree that it is a sick, twisted and preverted way of life, but unfortunately it is not been found to be illegal. There are a lot of sick, twisted and perverted people that live within the bounds of the law.

If any FLDS man or woman is abusing the girls then it will take solid legal investigative practices to provide the evidence so that they can be prosecuted.

Now ... what happened to you was illegal and you know it. I hope law enforcement made a case and convicted whomever it was that molested you as a child. I am certainly sorry that the system failed you for seven years.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Phil C
Also RM there was a time when Utah allowed men more than one wife before they became a state. Utah wanted to join the union and but the US wouldn't allow them on that point. Utah willingly agreed to abide by USA laws among which included only one wife per husband. This was by agreement but some of them are rebelling against this law. I also sometimes think that they are using religion to justify preverted behavior.

Yes, and that perverted behavior is as unlawful as it is perverted. Something benny and his misinformed and ill placed indignation fails to recognize.
Generally I too side away from the government and it's way too intrusive dealings in our honest, hard working, law abiding, American citizens lives. But this is not the case in this instance. Plain and simple, that compound was the home of a cult that abused women and children. It is not only immoral and reprehensable behavior, it is also plainly unlawful. How anybody cant see that, and would take a stance in opposition of what CPS and the court did to put a stop to it, is beyond my understanding.

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Yes, and that perverted behavior is as unlawful as it is perverted. Something benny and his misinformed and ill placed indignation fails to recognize.
Generally I too side away from the government and it's way too intrusive dealings in our honest, hard working, law abiding, American citizens lives. But this is not the case in this instance. Plain and simple, that compound was the home of a cult that abused women and children. It is not only immoral and reprehensable behavior, it is also plainly unlawful. How anybody cant see that, and would take a stance in opposition of what CPS and the court did to put a stop to it, is beyond my understanding.
I have absolutely no problem with CPS or any law enforcement agency stopping the FLDS church from abusing their children.

I am not misinformed on this at all. Unfortunately I know all too well.

When have you had a CPS agent show up at your children's school and kidnap them without any legal cause whatsoever?

I know exactly how CPS tramples on the law. Do you?

What CPS did to the FLDS was illegal. I personally know it. CPS does it all the time. Why? ... because there was nothing I could do about it.

But ... I knew that one day CPS would do it to someone with the public's attention or means to stop it.

I personally hope that some CPS and law enforcement personell are held accountable for their violation of the law. Just like I hope child abusers are prosecuted.

I had to wait seven years, but apparently there is justice.

So, look in the mirror if you want to see uninformed.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
Well ... I certainly agree that it is a sick, twisted and preverted way of life, but unfortunately it is not been found to be illegal. There are a lot of sick, twisted and perverted people that live within the bounds of the law.

If any FLDS man or woman is abusing the girls then it will take solid legal investigative practices to provide the evidence so that they can be prosecuted.

Now ... what happened to you was illegal and you know it. I hope law enforcement made a case and convicted whomever it was that molested you as a child. I am certainly sorry that the system failed you for seven years.

The system didn't fail me...I never reported it...never told anyone til I was 14.

My parents begged me to prosecute, but I just wanted to forget the whole thing and they didn't want me to have to talk about it in court....in hindsight, that may have not been a good decision.

This man (cough) was a family member and a preacher to boot.....even though it wasn't reported to authorities it still got out and then people came out of the woodwork, I wasn't the only one.

He lost his family, his job, his respect and he is lucky he didn't lose his life....my dad drove up on him on a lonely stretch of highway a few months later changing a flat tire.......dad stopped and they had words and then my dad beat the crap out of him with his own tire tool and left him with a threat that is hanging over the scumbags head to this day!!

I am fine though....I don't know how to say this gracefully.....the molestation never got to THAT point, and for the most part we lived in separate states, so I got REAL good at hide and seek!

But is just pisses me off that anyone can defend this in any shape, form or fashion.

Someone asked if it has been proved that underage girls were having kids.......one of the pregnant girls admitted to being 17 and already has ONE child......do the math!!!

The only way that is legal in the state of Texas is if the father is no more than 3 years older!!!

I don't have any inside info....but I honestly don't think CPS knew what they were going to find when the initially got there.....and I don't trust those FLDS people AT ALL! Those "moms" are some of the biggest liars I have seen....and if CPS had left everyone there to go back and decide how to go about this.....there is no doubt in my mind that LOTS of these children would have magically disappeared.

[pancho villa]

They are all freaks at that place. And so is anyone who agrees with them!

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by pancho villa
They are all freaks at that place. And so is anyone who agrees with them!

:iagree:

[CenTexSports]

The appeals judge did not say that CPS broke the law. What was said was that the CPS and original judge classiified the compound as a single family unit and they should not have. This question was brought up at the first hearings and the original judge sided on the children's behalf choosing to go with a better safe than sorry decision.

It was a gamble at best but was based on the interpretation of the law not breaking the law.

I think that CPS has many issues but look at the types of cases that they deal with. I am in favor of erring on the side of the children in EVERY case even when it puts the parents and other family members in a precarious situation.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
The appeals judge did not say that CPS broke the law. What was said was that the CPS and original judge classiified the compound as a single family unit and they shuld not have.


But.....but.....that's not what BBC said!!!!!:eek: :eek:


Originally posted by BobcatBenny

As much as I disagree with the FLDS on just about everything, the thing that I am fairly sure about, is that CPS broke the law. And ... as it looks like, the FLDS did not.

[STANG RED]

Benny, I have no doubt CPS has made many mistakes in the past. Hell I know of far too many myself. But I also realize that CPS is made up of falable human beings that make mistakes sometimes, and I even recognize that they are a reflection of society that has their fair share of incompetence that goes on. But this is not to say, that every thing they do is wrong and that they are constantly making mistakes. I believe they get it right most of the time, but as is normal with most things in our society, those arent the ones you usually hear about.
Did CPS and/or law inforcment make any mistakes in this instance in El Doredo? Possibly. But even so, does that negate the child abuse and women abuse that they have uncovered? I think not!
Dont let your own bias against CPS because of bad instance you had with them cloud your judgement. And I'd bet the people you delt with arent even the same people involved with what is going on out here. They may work for the same intity, but different people make different decisions based on entirely different circumstances of the time. The case you are relating to, has absolutely nothing to do with this one.

And I'll promise you. In this instance, I am way more informed than you will probably ever be. But I make no claim to be the least bit informed about the case you had to deal with, so I'll just have to take your word for it.


Originally posted by BobcatBenny
I have absolutely no problem with CPS or any law enforcement agency stopping the FLDS church from abusing their children.

I am not misinformed on this at all. Unfortunately I know all too well.

When have you had a CPS agent show up at your children's school and kidnap them without any legal cause whatsoever?

I know exactly how CPS tramples on the law. Do you?

What CPS did to the FLDS was illegal. I personally know it. CPS does it all the time. Why? ... because there was nothing I could do about it.

But ... I knew that one day CPS would do it to someone with the public's attention or means to stop it.


I personally hope that some CPS and law enforcement personell are held accountable for their violation of the law. Just like I hope child abusers are prosecuted.

I had to wait seven years, but apparently there is justice.

So, look in the mirror if you want to see uninformed.

[Ranger Mom]

CPS never took my kids, but they did pull one out of class and ask him some questions. I didn't know anything about it until I got home from work and found a card to call some lady on my door....that was when my son (who was in 3rd grade) told me they had talked to him.

Evidently someone had reported that my house was a wreck, that there was cat feces all over my floor and that my kids were being neglected.....I was FURIOUS!!!!

I immediately called and asked the lady to come out to my house, she said she would come the next day....I said "NO", you pulled my kid out of class, I want you to come RIGHT NOW before I have a chance to clean or anything, so you can see exactly how my house is.

She was there in 15 minutes....yeah, my house was messy. I was a single mother working a full time job....there was dirty laundry piled up, clean laundry laying on my bed...undone dishes. There WAS cat feces...but it was in the catbox!!!

By law, she wouldn't tell me who called, but I had to give her "references"....my best friend across the street was one of those reference. She called a couple of days later and I was there....."T" had me get on another phone and listen in.....imagine mine and "T's" shock when the lady said the name of the person who reported it was my best friend "T"...but of course it wasn't her, it was someone that used her name.

This "someone" wasn't too bright, because she left someone else's name but her own phone number....so we were able to find out who reported me...and it turned out to be a girl who felt like I "Stole" her friend from her....so juvenile.

Anyway.....I have had my dealings with CPS...and even after all that, it still took them a year before they closed the case. More often than not, I get upset with CPS for placing kids BACK in home that was found to be abusive.

They are like us mods....damned if they do and damned if they don't!!

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom

Someone asked if it has been proved that underage girls were having kids.......one of the pregnant girls admitted to being 17 and already has ONE child......do the math!!!



I thought it was originally reported that out of 60 teen girls 30 had kids, were pregnant or both. Is that still accurate? If so isn't that proof of child endangerment? I'm just curious if the state has backed down from that claim.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I thought it was originally reported that out of 60 teen girls 30 had kids, were pregnant or both. Is that still accurate? If so isn't that proof of child endangerment? I'm just curious if the state has backed down from that claim.

Some they held as minors have been proved to be "of age"....one was 27!!

But there ARE some underage ones.....I know lots of people don't like Nancy Grace...but she was FURIOUS about this last night!!!!

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I thought it was originally reported that out of 60 teen girls 30 had kids, were pregnant or both. Is that still accurate? If so isn't that proof of child endangerment? I'm just curious if the state has backed down from that claim.

And where are the DNA results. All it would take is proof that one
50 year old fathered one child with one minor. IMO that would
justify anything and everything the CPS did in this case.

[CenTexSports]

Once again, that is not the question that was ruled on by the appeals judge.

The appeals judge said that CPS only had the right to take children from one family at a time if it was determined that abuse or endangerment was involved not all of the families.

CPS, by law, can only investigate families that are turned in by the public or law enforcement. It looks like with this ruling, if it is not overturned, that if they can not identify who made the original call and what family she was in, they may have to get out of this compound altogether.

This should remain interesting.

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Benny, I have no doubt CPS has made many mistakes in the past. Hell I know of far too many myself. But I also realize that CPS is made up of falable human beings that make mistakes sometimes, and I even recognize that they are a reflection of society that has their fair share of incompetence that goes on. But this is not to say, that every thing they do is wrong and that they are constantly making mistakes. I believe they get it right most of the time, but as is normal with most things in our society, those arent the ones you usually hear about.
Did CPS and/or law inforcment make any mistakes in this instance in El Doredo? Possibly. But even so, does that negate the child abuse and women abuse that they have uncovered? I think not!
Dont let your own bias against CPS because of bad instance you had with them cloud your judgement. And I'd bet the people you delt with arent even the same people involved with what is going on out here. They may work for the same intity, but different people make different decisions based on entirely different circumstances of the time. The case you are relating to, has absolutely nothing to do with this one.

And I'll promise you. In this instance, I am way more informed than you will probably ever be. But I make no claim to be the least bit informed about the case you had to deal with, so I'll just have to take your word for it.
Let me educate you further.

Well, here is how I know they broke the law and do it regularly.

The Texas CPS used the same tactic on my family one Friday afternoon in 2001. A young under trained CPS could not find the children she was sent to locate based on an anonymous call. But because she was required to file a report by that afternoon, she took what ever children that reasonably matched the vague description she had. Why? ... So that she did not have to work the weekend.

She didn't think it would be a big deal.

She unlawfully kidnapped my children and interogated them looking for anything she could find.

She asked and introduced my children to sexual abuse. She asked about physical abuse. She asked if I owned any guns. She asked if they ate regularly. Etc. Etc.

She went fishing. (Which of course I only found out about during the trial)

My wife was distraught and undone. We got our kids back after a good proverbial screwing by the Plano CPS kid's jail. And if you think that is not that big of a deal, I suggest going through an interogation about sexual abuse that never occurred. It is scary. I was pissed. And after my wife's interogation ended, she was pissed.

I went to my lawyer and the court system.

I spent $40,000 sueing the Texas DFPS, and the case drug on for over 2 years.

They never argued that their actions were not illegal. They basically conceded that point. Why? ... Because breaking the law was their standard operating procedure.

So you might wonder how the Texas DFPS office can get away with it?

As it turns out, they can get away with it because State employees, especially law enforcement officals have what is called, "IMMUNITY!"

So, a judge ultimately and lawfully upheld the State's immunity defense. And my case was dismissed based on immunity. Which meant I legally lost even though the CPS broke the law to begin with. There was nothing I could do, but I tried.

Finally, you might wonder how my lawyer could not pierce the State's immunity? Well ... as it turns out there is something called, "GOOD FAITH". With good faith basically being defined as something that others in a similar position might do.

The State just paraded agent, after agent, after agent that had also broken the law in the same way and reason. Which established good faith. They all believed it was acceptable to break the law, for the sake of the children.

But ultimately, life is rough. So, if Texas CPS grabs any of your children and won't give them back, you can know for certain, that they have IMMUNITY eventhough they broke the law.

My hope for justice is that the agent that testified before the judge when this FLDS boondoggle was started, is prosecuted for the purjury which they committed.

But, even outside of that I am fairly certain there will be some resignations and firings over the mishandling of this case. Let the TDFPS blood letting begin!!!

Now ... I know that CPS broke the law, because I have stacks of court documents that say so.

You all need to deprogram your brains from this "think about the children" excuse that any illegal tactic is acceptable in defense of children. Because ... it is not acceptable or right.

And believe it or not, the snatch and grab of your children is taught to the agents.

And Stang, I did not have to do anything illegal to receive justice. I certainly wanted to, and eventhough my twisted and perverted brains fantasized about taking justice into my own hands, I obeyed the law.

It is better to obey the law and let an injustice stand ... than to break the law yourself.

However, the Texas CPS does not say that.

[Ranger Mom]

I don't need to "deprogram" my brain from ANYTHING!:mad:

I am going to believe what I believe without input from you, or CPS, or FLDS!

My point is, and has always been, there are young girls basically being raped by nasty old men and that is WRONG!!!

I don't even think they are even "polygamist" in the sense of the word. From all I have read, they have one legal wife and several "spiritual" wives.....or in today's terms, they have a wife and several "baby mama's".....it may be immoral, but it isn't illegal.

Do I think this should have been handled differently, yeah, NOW I do......but I won't say that CPS is an evil group wanting to rip all innocent children from their families either. Like I said, I have more of a problem with them returning so many abused children BACK to their abusers.

Not all children are better off with their parents.

I don't have to follow 100% of what you say or what the "other" side says.....I am competent enough to make my OWN decision...thank you very much!!

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny


The Texas CPS used the same tactic on my family one Friday afternoon in 2001. A young under trained CPS could not find the children she was sent to locate based on an anonymous call. But because she was required to file a report by that afternoon, she took what ever children that reasonably matched the vague description she had. Why? ... So that she did not have to work the weekend.



"A young under trained CPS" agent. (Your words)

Well there ya go. Thanks for helping me affirm what I said in my post that you replied to.

And I can only assume you are accurate about the immunity that agent had also. In which case, if I were you, I would also question why my lawyer wasnt aware of this before pissing away $40K of my money.

I wouldnt dream of saying one thing in defense of that agent and what she did, or even the rest of your local CPS office for defending her. (Which at this time should be pointed out that it resides in the area where more registered sex offenders against children are located than anywhere else), so I have little doubt that they probobly are a litte trigger happy due to the environment. But it also points out that that was in a completely different region, and certainly completely different set of people.

How would you like to be held accountable for the actions of all of your co-workers? I know I certainly would not! I have no idea what some of them may be involved in, but I do know of some, and have known of many in the past, that were probably as irresponsible and imcompetent as the "young under trained CPS" agent that you had the misfortune of having to deal with. But thank God I have never been evaluated based on any of their performance.

[AP Panther Fan]

This entire thing makes me sick. In addition to the sexual abuse of girls the fact that the parents abandon the boys/young men makes me ill as well.

These kids are cast out and left to fend for themselves with probably only the clothes on their back. It is a truly sad situation all the way around and I hope they all burn in hell. period.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by AP Panther Fan
This entire thing makes me sick. In addition to the sexual abuse of girls the fact that the parents abandon the boys/young men makes me ill as well.

These kids are cast out and left to fend for themselves with probably only the clothes on their back. It is a truly sad situation all the way around and I hope they all burn in hell. period.

YEAH!!!!! What she said!!!:clap: :clap:

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I think I'm gonna need more popcorn!

:1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn: :1popcorn:

me too - you get the popcorn - I'll bring the liquid refreshments ;)

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
. . . Do I think this should have been handled differently, yeah, NOW I do......but I won't say that CPS is an evil group wanting to rip all innocent children from their families either. Like I said, I have more of a problem with them returning so many abused children BACK to their abusers . . .
Well I will say with confidence that the CPS is an evil organization.

The people that work for CPS, as far as I know, are not bad individuals. As a matter of fact, I am behind our state funding an organization such as the CPS. It is needed, but the current incarnation needs to be put down. It has become a bone crushing beuracratic machine that uses the good intentions of its employees as grease.

If you want a child to be abused, put them into state run foster care.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/news/60623statement.html

[thumptbh]

My family and I have been foster family for almost 5 years now. Although I dont agree with everything they do and say some of the times, they do a great job and are extemely underpaid for what they do. They are on call 24 hrs a day and make less than $35,000 dollars a year here in the panhandle. Also just from reading the posts I've noticed some need to a little research about the FLDS and the LDS church. They are completely 2 different churches and the LDS church has put out several things condemning what they have seen and heard going on down here. I am LDS and just don't like to see its name dragged in the mud for something it has nothing to do with. Also on a side note, CPS has no say whether the child goes back to the ones that abused them. You can blame the judges that we have elected. They are the ones that decide, not CPS.

[CHS_CG]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
Well ... I certainly agree that it is a sick, twisted and preverted way of life, but unfortunately it is not been found to be illegal. There are a lot of sick, twisted and perverted people that live within the bounds of the law.




If a 14 year old is pregnant...reguardless if she said "she wanted to" its still illegal.. If you are under 18 you can not give consent in the state of Texas... Remember the story I posted in Feb about my friends when they were in high school????

Just because CPS isnt walking in on the older "men" doing the act, it doesnt make it any more legal...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by CHS_CG
If you are under 18 you can not give consent in the state of Texas...
That information is not entirely accurate.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
That information is not entirely accurate.

It's not accurate at all...the age of consent in the state of Texas is 17.

If a 14 year old girl gets pregnant and the dad is 17 or under and the parents don't press charges, the law will seldom touch it.

There is a 3 year window between 14 and 17. If a 20 y/o is having sex with a 16 y/o, it is illegal in the eyes of the law....so a 50 y/o pervert doing the deed with a 16 sure as hell is!!!!

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
It's not accurate at all...the age of consent in the age of Texas is 17.

If a 14 year old girl gets pregnant and the dad is 17 or under and the parents don't press charges, the law will seldom touch it.

Seldom touch it does not equal age of consent though!

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Seldom touch it does not equal age of consent though!

I clearly stated that 17 is the age of consent....but there is a 3 year "loop hole"....believe me, I lived it!!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
so a 50 y/o pervert doing the deed with a 16 sure as hell is!!!!
Most definitely!

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I clearly stated that 17 is the age of consent....but there is a 3 year "loop hole"....believe me, I lived it!!

I know. I've read it all before. I know there's no point in arguing it.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I know. I've read it all before. I know there's no point in arguing it.

Why would you argue it?? Facts are facts!

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Why would you argue it?? Facts are facts!

I wouldn't argue it.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I wouldn't argue it.

Okay......well I am going swimmng now!!

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Okay......well I am going swimmng now!!
http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/images/emots/popcorn.gif http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/images/emots/popcorn.gif http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/images/emots/popcorn.gif http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/images/emots/popcorn.gif http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/images/emots/popcorn.gif

:D :eek: :D :eek: