Congress passes bill to sue OPEC!!! [Archive]

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Why don't we stop selling futures on the stock market for petroleum products? That alone adds at least thirty to forty cents per gallon.

And therein lies the rub. For every seller, there must be a buyer. Know who that is? Oil companies, hedging crude prices for their refineries. This is where they make a very large part of their profits, buying oil at todays or short term prices in a market that is continuing to go up in price. I promise you if prices weren't rising because of shortages and demand there wouldn't be a market for oil futures.

I still believe one of our our biggest problem is refineries. Yes, the falling dollar, increased demand by China and India and other developing nations is a BIG part. But if we could fill our own need for refineries we could certainly help. But, NIMBY!

And I really don't believe 30 or 40 cents would make much difference with gasoline at $4.00 per gallon.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

05-20-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x

And I really don't believe 30 or 40 cents would make much difference with gasoline at $4.00 per gallon.

Umm, what?

Old Tiger

05-20-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x

And I really don't believe 30 or 40 cents would make much difference with gasoline at $4.00 per gallon. So you're saying you'd rather pay that $4 than may say $3.70 or $3.60? I'm glad someone has the money to afford it.

sinfan75

05-20-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
And therein lies the rub. For every seller, there must be a buyer. Know who that is? Oil companies, hedging crude prices for their refineries. This is where they make a very large part of their profits, buying oil at todays or short term prices in a market that is continuing to go up in price. I promise you if prices weren't rising because of shortages and demand there wouldn't be a market for oil futures.

I still believe one of our our biggest problem is refineries. Yes, the falling dollar, increased demand by China and India and other developing nations is a BIG part. But if we could fill our own need for refineries we could certainly help. But, NIMBY!

And I really don't believe 30 or 40 cents would make much difference with gasoline at $4.00 per gallon. Well knock out new refineries to save us. it'd take 20 years to build enough refineries to meet our needs thanks to regulations. And that ain't even the problem. China is a big reason prices are going up for their manufacturing needs. But I think you blame OPEC not the oil companies. They the ones forcing the prices up.

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Well knock out new refineries to save us. it'd take 20 years to build enough refineries to meet our needs thanks to regulations. And that ain't even the problem. China is a big reason prices are going up for their manufacturing needs. But I think you blame OPEC not the oil companies. They the ones forcing the prices up.

I really don't beleieve it would take 20 years, but I'm not an engineer. More like several. But if we start now, we will have them on line at some point. If we don't, we won't.

It is estimated that by 2050 China will have as many cars as we have in the USA today. They use coal more than any other fuel. That coal comes from us, we are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Yes the growth in both China and India affects the demand, but the real culprit is the weak dollar and our inablility to provide fuel sufficient to meet demand.

If the shoe were on the other foot, we would probably charge whatever the market would pay, no different than foreign producers. And the truth is, we get more oil from Central and South America than we do the Mideast.

My point here is we have put ourselves in this predicament and only we can solve it. Drill more, refine more, use less. Don't depend on foreign production.

And yes, 30 or 40 cents is 10% at $4.00 per gallon. It was 20% at $2.00 per gallon and at that price it might have made some difference. But that's not my point. Trading futures is not the problem, supply and demand is.

sahen

05-20-2008, 07:38 PM

well couple things...only the House passed this, not the Senate...so tech. Congress did not pass this resolution, just the house....and this resolution works on the premise that all other countries will abide by our anti-trust laws..i dont think thats gonna work, prolly just tick them off and force prices higher.....

on a side note, if anyone ever wonders y we have anti-trust laws just look at what is happening with oil right now...its a great example of what can happen when people work together to price gouge...

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by sahen
well couple things...only the House passed this, not the Senate...so tech. Congress did not pass this resolution, just the house....and this resolution works on the premise that all other countries will abide by our anti-trust laws..i dont think thats gonna work, prolly just tick them off and force prices higher.....

on a side note, if anyone ever wonders y we have anti-trust laws just look at what is happening with oil right now...its a great example of what can happen when people work together to price gouge...
:iagree:

Now, how do we get out of this mess? Suing and being unable to collect doen't make much sense. We are probably making them (foreign producers) mad just by passing a dumb resolution like this. I think they call this "jingoism".

sinfan75

05-20-2008, 08:08 PM

Drilling for oil in the U.S. would be great except our biggest reserves are in protected places. Until the US. opens up drilling in these areas forget it. And yeah we alot of oil from south and central america but they're also part of OPEC. To build one new refinery you're lookin at probably around 1 billion$ for about a 150,000 barrel refinery. 2 to 3 years of legal crap to even get the ground work started and 3 to 5 years to build a plant this size so yeah about 20 years to build about say 20 new refineries. and i'll bet my estimate isREAL low

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Drilling for oil in the U.S. would be great except our biggest reserves are in protected places. Until the US. opens up drilling in these areas forget it. And yeah we alot of oil from south and central america but they're also part of OPEC. To build one new refinery you're lookin at probably around 1 billion$ for about a 150,000 barrel refinery. 2 to 3 years of legal crap to even get the ground work started and 3 to 5 years to build a plant this size so yeah about 20 years to build about say 20 new refineries. and i'll bet my estimate isREAL low

While I hate the thought of drilling in those restricted areas, do we really have a choice? Well, yes, we can just continue paying the ones who do produce. At $130 per barrell though, we can afford to put some pretty good safeguards in place to keep the pristine places as close to perfect as possible.

Until there is more oil or we use less of it, we can complain all we want about "other countries" and it will do no good.

And you may be right about 20 years if you factor in all the red tape. Maybe a "red tape" moratorium?

slpybear the bullfan

05-20-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
I still believe one of our our biggest problem is refineries. Yes, the falling dollar, increased demand by China and India and other developing nations is a BIG part. But if we could fill our own need for refineries we could certainly help. But, NIMBY!

There is a man who gets it.

sinfan75

05-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
While I hate the thought of drilling in those restricted areas, do we really have a choice? Well, yes, we can just continue paying the ones who do produce. At $130 per barrell though, we can afford to put some pretty good safeguards in place to keep the pristine places as close to perfect as possible.

Until there is more oil or we use less of it, we can complain all we want about "other countries" and it will do no good.

And you may be right about 20 years if you factor in all the red tape. Maybe a "red tape" moratorium? Truth be told and it never is. Companies that drill for oil do as much as possible to protect the environment. HUGE reserves in Colorado and still in Alaska. Government needs to let em get in there and drill it. Probably wouldn't help at the gas pump but at least it would be American drilled.

sinton66

05-20-2008, 09:07 PM

Sure wish this would happen.....
Got this in an email, thought it was a good read.

WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?

"My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short . The United Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains every one not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. THEN EVERY YEAR THERE AFTER IT'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home . On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France or maybe China .

I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chance, mezamies.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York

A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

Mexico is also on List 2 its president and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska- which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn tootin.'

Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America .. Thank you and good night."

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Truth be told and it never is. Companies that drill for oil do as much as possible to protect the environment. HUGE reserves in Colorado and still in Alaska. Government needs to let em get in there and drill it. Probably wouldn't help at the gas pump but at least it would be American drilled.

Let's not give big oil too much credit. They are sensitive to the environment due to the law and public opinion.

Yes, we are hurting our own cause by not drilling for and using the oil we have, but that too will run out. We need to figure out another way to power ourselves.

And no, I'm not a liberal. If we did not have to depend on imported oil the exporters sure wouldn't set our prices!

slpybear the bullfan

05-20-2008, 09:20 PM

Big Oil cares more about the envrionment than you think.

Dad is currently working for a "Big Oil" company up in the rockies. You would not believe the money spent to minimize impact on the envrionment. Like drill 20+ wells from the same location using directional drilling... shutting down fields for months so antelope can occupy land... etc.

It can be done the other way... but Big Oil has finally figured out it is best to work with the people than against em.

IMHO, the problem isn't big oil near as much as little oil.... the smaller companies that are a notch below Big oil. They spend lots and lots of $$$$ to get that oil and gas out of the ground. And could care less about anything else.

All MHO.

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by slpybear the bullfan
Big Oil cares more about the envrionment than you think.

Dad is currently working for a "Big Oil" company up in the rockies. You would not believe the money spent to minimize impact on the envrionment. Like drill 20+ wells from the same location using directional drilling... shutting down fields for months so antelope can occupy land... etc.

It can be done the other way... but Big Oil has finally figured out it is best to work with the people than against em.

IMHO, the problem isn't big oil near as much as little oil.... the smaller companies that are a notch below Big oil. They spend lots and lots of $$$$ to get that oil and gas out of the ground. And could care less about anything else.

All MHO.

I agree wholeheartedly that big oil cares for the environment, for the reasons given in my previous post. I don't know that we even have a huge environmental problem anymore as I'm not around too many drilling sites.

What we need to do is get the oil, refine it and sell it. That is one thing that will bring down the price, that and use less. Nothing brings down the price like adequate supply. Of course, like any self fulfilling prophesy, if it's too cheap, we have no incentive to conserve.

lostaussie

05-20-2008, 09:33 PM

If it is a class action...............then count me in:D

lakers

05-20-2008, 09:37 PM

ANWR is not the answer...

How about more alternatives, besides ethanol which failed tremendously...

ronwx5x

05-20-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by lakers
ANWR is not the answer...

How about more alternatives, besides ethanol which failed tremendously...

How about both ANWR and alternative fuels? Neither is enough by itself. Even if ethanol were a viable alternative, all we've done is cause unintended consequences such as driving up food prices on top of fuel prices. And we all know ethanol has not solved the problem. It costs more in energy to produce than we derive from it.

We need more oil near term, a long term solution with some other source, and CONSERVATION.

JasperDog94

05-20-2008, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by lakers
ANWR is not the answer...

How about more alternatives, besides ethanol which failed tremendously... It may not be the answer, but it's a start. If there were other viable alternative, don't you think we'd be using them right now? And what's wrong with drilling in ANWAR? The Alaskan pipeline proved that we can do it and actually improve the natural habitat.

JasperDog94

05-20-2008, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
How about both ANWR and alternative fuels? Neither is enough by itself. Even if ethanol were a viable alternative, all we've done is cause unintended consequences such as driving up food prices on top of fuel prices. And we all know ethanol has not solved the problem. It costs more in energy to produce than we derive from it.

We need more oil near term, a long term solution with some other source, and CONSERVATION. :iagree: :clap: :clap: :clap:

lakers

05-20-2008, 09:50 PM

The effects of drilling there would be temporary.

Maybe research for long term alternatives... :thinking:

I did see a newscast of a man who created a machine that could burn salt water. It is really cool.

STANG RED

05-20-2008, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Well knock out new refineries to save us. it'd take 20 years to build enough refineries to meet our needs thanks to regulations. And that ain't even the problem. China is a big reason prices are going up for their manufacturing needs. But I think you blame OPEC not the oil companies. They the ones forcing the prices up.

A moderate sized refinery can be built and in full production in less than 2 years. I worked on a complete refinery upgrade some 20 years ago that took only 9 months, and we practically replaced everything in it. Basically built a new refinery. At that time we had nearly 400 refineries in the US. Today we have less than 200, but have about 4 times the demand. You do the math. We need more refineries as fast as they can be built. A hundred or more could be built and in full operation within a couple years. But the government is going to have to step up and allow exploration where it is known that millions of barrells of oil exists right here in the US, or those refineries will have nothing to refine.
But instead they are creating rediculous bills the gives us the right to sue OPEC. What a bunch of morons! I'm sure all OPEC members are shacking in their boots literally. After all, one tends to shake some when laughing uncontrollably.

STANG RED

05-20-2008, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by lakers
ANWR is not the answer...

How about more alternatives, besides ethanol which failed tremendously...

The footprint of the production in ANWR would be less than 2000 acres out of a site that is nearly 1.5 million acres. And about the only eyes that will ever see it is wildlife and those that work there. President Carter actually set aside some 1.2 million acres of ANWR for oil exploration. Let's use it!

sinton66

05-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Yall understand that the US does NOT recognize the so-called "World Court". Wouldn't that be WHERE they'd have to sue???? Is this just a shallow excuse to get the citizens to push for acceptance of the World Court? I hope that NEVER happens.

Adidas410s

05-21-2008, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Go Blue
You seem like one of those fox news type of people who believe everything the government tells ya

The rolled eyes equals a heavy dose of sarcasm...

JasperDog94

05-21-2008, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by lakers
The effects of drilling there would be temporary.

Maybe research for long term alternatives... :thinking: The conservative estimate of oil in ANWAR is a 30 year supply equal to what we get from OPEC. That's not very temporary. And do you really think that alternatives are not being researched right now?

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
The Saudis would probably just throw us the finger and sell the stuff to China for a bargain price and still make billions while our country goes down the crapper. Stupid move by the house.

Want cheaper gas? Use less. Here Is an Idea. Spell it out for the Oil companies and the Saudis. First with the Domestic Oil Companies... We could Nationalize All Oil Holdings and Cut the Price of Oil to american Consumers. They do it in other contries and they pay sometimes less than half what we do. In order for you to make a profit Oil has to be in the $30 per barrel range. They can either deal fairly with the american consumers or the Congress and President could Just Nationalize the whole shooting match and Drasticaly Reduce Prices to what is consistent with making a profit but not gouging the american people. Big Oil Billionare proffits would go the way of the Dinosars. Or they could deal with the American consumers fairly and not Stick it to us anymore... As for Opec.. Go that way to Sue the crap out of them. Lean on them Big time. The Do nothing stratagy of the Bush white house has been stupid... BUT We need to take drastic measures NOW. not wait until its $6 a gallon

JasperDog94

05-21-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
The Do nothing stratagy of the Bush white house has been stupid... While I agree with this statement, nationalizing the oil industry is not the answer. Remove restrictions on where we can drill and let that dictate price. One of the safest places to drill is offshore. Almost a zero chance for a spill (none in the past 30 years that I can remember) and there's tons of oil out there.

When Katrina and Rita tore through the Gulf of Mexico, over 1000 oil wells were damaged or destroyed. Yet not 1 drop of oil was spilled.

ronwx5x

05-21-2008, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Here Is an Idea. Spell it out for the Oil companies and the Saudis. First with the Domestic Oil Companies... We could Nationalize All Oil Holdings and Cut the Price of Oil to american Consumers. They do it in other contries and they pay sometimes less than half what we do. In order for you to make a profit Oil has to be in the $30 per barrel range. They can either deal fairly with the american consumers or the Congress and President could Just Nationalize the whole shooting match and Drasticaly Reduce Prices to what is consistent with making a profit but not gouging the american people. Big Oil Billionare proffits would go the way of the Dinosars. Or they could deal with the American consumers fairly and not Stick it to us anymore... As for Opec.. Go that way to Sue the crap out of them. Lean on them Big time. The Do nothing stratagy of the Bush white house has been stupid... BUT We need to take drastic measures NOW. not wait until its $6 a gallon

Yeah, Venezuela and Cuba tried this. How did that work out?

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Yeah, Venezuela and Cuba tried this. How did that work out?

"Taxi driver Jaime Tinoco works the streets of Caracas in a 1976 Chevy Nova that guzzles 19 gallons (72 liters) of gas a day. But he doesn't worry about fuel efficiency -- filling his tank costs just $2.30.

While US consumers struggle with soaring energy prices, Venezuela's gas is now the world's cheapest at 12 cents a gallon and Washington's regional foe, President Hugo Chavez, vows to maintain subsidies that keep fuel dirt-cheap."

WOW!! looks Like the Venezuelans are loving the nationalized Oil Industry. Something to atleast consider and something for the Oil Fat cats to think about what they could lose..

:thinking:

LH Panther Mom

05-21-2008, 10:10 AM

ronwx5x

05-21-2008, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
"Taxi driver Jaime Tinoco works the streets of Caracas in a 1976 Chevy Nova that guzzles 19 gallons (72 liters) of gas a day. But he doesn't worry about fuel efficiency -- filling his tank costs just $2.30.

While US consumers struggle with soaring energy prices, Venezuela's gas is now the world's cheapest at 12 cents a gallon and Washington's regional foe, President Hugo Chavez, vows to maintain subsidies that keep fuel dirt-cheap."

WOW!! looks Like the Venezuelans are loving the nationalized Oil Industry. Something to atleast consider and something for the Oil Fat cats to think about what they could lose..

:thinking:

I'm sorry if you think this proves that nationalizing oil is good for anyone other than those that waste it. Get real. Citing a man who wastes 19 gallons a day sure makes me want to nationalize big oil.

We need solutions for our enormous appetite, not unrealistic suggestions that one, won't happen, and two would solve nothing. Do you really think nationalizing would solve the shortage? It would just give more funds for our bloated politicians to waste. They certainly don't have a record of helping the underpriveleged with the trillions they get now!

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
I'm sorry if you think this proves that nationalizing oil is good for anyone other than those that waste it. Get real. Citing a man who wastes 19 gallons a day sure makes me want to nationalize big oil.

We need solutions for our enormous appetite, not unrealistic suggestions that one, won't happen, and two would solve nothing. Do you really think nationalizing would solve the shortage? It would just give more funds for our bloated politicians to waste. They certainly don't have a record of helping the underpriveleged with the trillions they get now! Keep thinking this way.. Oil Fat Cats Love this frame of thought and they thank you all the way to the bank.:thumbsup:

Reds fan

05-21-2008, 10:31 AM

STANG RED

05-21-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
"Taxi driver Jaime Tinoco works the streets of Caracas in a 1976 Chevy Nova that guzzles 19 gallons (72 liters) of gas a day. But he doesn't worry about fuel efficiency -- filling his tank costs just $2.30.

While US consumers struggle with soaring energy prices, Venezuela's gas is now the world's cheapest at 12 cents a gallon and Washington's regional foe, President Hugo Chavez, vows to maintain subsidies that keep fuel dirt-cheap."

WOW!! looks Like the Venezuelans are loving the nationalized Oil Industry. Something to atleast consider and something for the Oil Fat cats to think about what they could lose..

:thinking:

Now why dont you tell the whole story BM.:mad: In Caracas this guy might make about $20 to $25 a day on a good day. So he is spending roughly 10% of his income on gasoline. I dont spend any where near 10% of my daily income on gasoline, and I seriously doubt you do either. But if you think things are so great in Venezula under their dictators rule, by all means be my guest to relocate there.
In fact there are lots of socialist and/or communist countries that I'm sure would fit you to a tee. Why are you even still here if we have it so bad? Why do people leave those countries in droves to try to get here if they have it so good?:thinking:

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by STANG RED
Now why dont you tell the whole story BM.:mad: In Caracas this guy might make about $20 to $25 a day on a good day. So he is spending roughly 10% of his income on gasoline. I dont spend any where near 10% of my daily income on gasoline, and I seriously doubt you do either. But if you think things are so great in Venezula under their dictators rule, by all means be my guest to relocate there.
In fact there are lots of socialist and/or communist countries that I'm sure would fit you to a tee. Why are you even still here if we have it so bad? Why do people leave those countries in droves to try to get here if they have it so good?:thinking:

Good points!!!!:clap: :clap:

I'm going to love to see what spin is put on this one!!:devil:

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Reds fan
I'm sure Jaime is enjoying the results of socialism in Venezuela, inflation rates of 22% overall and 33% for food and projected to increase more in 2008. All this on a new minimum wage of.......$371 US per month...... Solutions to this situation are not ALL or NONE....Id Bet Money that If there was serious talk of major overhall of the US oil Industry there would be positive change taking place. But on second Thought... Lets Just keep doing what whe have been doing for the last 8 years!! Lets amend the constitution to allow GWB to serve another term!! Heck things are going so well for us now here and around the world. Why Change a thing?:clap:

ronwx5x

05-21-2008, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Keep thinking this way.. Oil Fat Cats Love this frame of thought and they thank you all the way to the bank.:thumbsup:

This is the best retort you can come up with? We need people who think through problems, not just throw c**p at the wall to what sticks.

Do you believe he is better off doing whatever he does to use 19 gal. of gas per day than he would be if he had a decent job in a country with freedom, laws, and fair wages? Big oil is not perfect, we all know. But socialism is an even worse choice.

Sort of like democracy and capitalism. A terrible system, but far better than whatever the second option is!

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Good points!!!!:clap: :clap:

I'm going to love to see what spin is put on this one!!:devil: Your Right!! we should Just keep doing what we have been ... things are Great right now for us here and all over the world.. :2thumbsup

LH Panther Mom

05-21-2008, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Maybe you should consider a move. I'm sure you could get a work visa fairly easily. :)

Originally posted by STANG RED
But if you think things are so great in Venezula under their dictators rule, by all means be my guest to relocate there.
In fact there are lots of socialist and/or communist countries that I'm sure would fit you to a tee. Why are you even still here if we have it so bad? Why do people leave those countries in droves to try to get here if they have it so good?:thinking:
I suggested the same solution. :devil:

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by ronwx5x
This is the best retort you can come up with? We need people who think through problems, not just throw c**p at the wall to what sticks.

Do you believe he is better off doing whatever he does to use 19 gal. of gas per day than he would be if he had a decent job in a country with freedom, laws, and fair wages? Big oil is not perfect, we all know. But socialism is an even worse choice.

Sort of like democracy and capitalism. A terrible system, but far better than whatever the second option is! Gosh! your right!! Like I said before, the country just need to continue to be guided in the same direction. Lets just keep letting the Oil companies stick it to us and let them live it up while the rest of us pay more for everything that is transported from point a to b.. Lets not change anything. Lets Just find More oil. You know there is ALWAYS more oil. its so simple.:clap:

ronwx5x

05-21-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Gosh! your right!! Like I said before, the country just need to continue to be guided in the same direction. Lets just keep leeting the Oil companies stick it to us and let them live it up while the rest of us pay more for everything that is transported from point a to b.. Lets not change anything. Lets Just find More oil. You know there is ALWAYS more oil. its so simple.:clap:

And who in this discussion has propsed the status quo as our best option?

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Your Right!! we should Just keep doing what we have been ... things are Great right now for us here and all over the world.. :2thumbsup

Actually...I am making more money than I ever have right now....so yeah, I'm doing great!!!:D

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I suggested the same solution. :devil: Nah!! I think I just may Vote the Idiots out of Office that have turned a blind Eye to the Big dogs Gouging the American People. Instead of leaving I think I and the Rest of the 72% of americans who think the country has been run poorly will just go vote in November to clean house.:D Id bet money the guys who talk about doing some of the same things we have been doing the last few years will have to find another profesion...;)

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Actually...I am making more money than I ever have right now....so yeah, I'm doing great!!!:D Good for you! so you go do what you can to keep it the same. I will go in november to get rid of these briliant people who pu us in this situation and we shall see.... but I think we all really know what is about to happen now dont we.;) those 72% ers will out vote those 28%rs ..;)

STANG RED

05-21-2008, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Your Right!! we should Just keep doing what we have been ... things are Great right now for us here and all over the world.. :2thumbsup

No, we need to change lots of things from what has been going on. But we need to do it within our democratic system. Socialism is not, has not been, and never will be the right answer. And if your silly enough to think your precious democrates have all the right answers, your an even bigger fool than they are. It's the dems that have voted to lock up all the prime production areas, and have passed all the restrictions that have not allowed for exploration and refineries to be built. And now look at the mess we are in. We are the only oil producing country in the world that is not producing in our most prime areas. Your friend the dictator of Venezuela is certainly producing in his countries most prime areas. But your beloved dems say hell no you might displace a feild mouse or a guppy if we let you drill there. So again I say, look at the mess that has gotten us into now. Yes we need some drastic changes. But certainly not in the socialist path you would have us take!:mad:

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Good for you! so you go do what you can to keep it the same. I will go in november to get rid of these briliant people who pu us in this situation and we shall see.... but I think we all really know what is about to happen now dont we.;) those 72% ers will out vote those 28%rs ..;)

All I gotta do is show up to work everyday...that is what they pay me for...it doesn't matter WHO is in office!!

I have worked here for 17 years, so I have worked the same job through both parties being in the White House.....neither one has affected my job one way or the other.

Reds fan

05-21-2008, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Nah!! I think I just may Vote the Idiots out of Office that have turned a blind Eye to the Big dogs Gouging the American People. Instead of leaving I think I and the Rest of the 72% of americans who think the country has been run poorly will just go vote in November to clean house.:D Id bet money the guys who talk about doing some of the same things we have been doing the last few years will have to find another profesion...;)

Now there's a great idea! Vote out the same "idiots" that were voted in to office to clean house in 2006 and give us "change"! :D

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 11:05 AM

**WARNING****

This is getting close to being too political for this board!!!

ronwx5x

05-21-2008, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
**WARNING****

This is getting close to being too political for this board!!!

Let's go back to the oil discussion!!!:hijacktd: :1popcorn: :2thumbsup

Black_Magic

05-21-2008, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by STANG RED
No, we need to change lots of things from what has been going on. But we need to do it within our democratic system. Socialism is not, has not been, and never will be the right answer. And if your silly enough to think your precious democrates have all the right answers, your an even bigger fool than they are. It's the dems that have voted to lock up all the prime production areas, and have passed all the restrictions that have not allowed for exploration and refineries to be built. And now look at the mess we are in. We are the only oil producing country in the world that is not producing in our most prime areas. Your friend the dictator of Venezuela is certainly producing in his countries most prime areas. But your beloved dems say hell no you might displace a feild mouse or a guppy if we let you drill there. So again I say, look at the mess that has gotten us into now. Yes we need some drastic changes. But certainly not in the socialist path you would have us take!:mad: Your right. Make those fat cats even fatter!! we shall see what happens. but we all know what is comming.:clap: :clap: :clap: Then when things get better in 3 or so years I can here it now. Its not because of the New President and majority in congress... Its because of what Our Great President Hoover...:clap:

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Your right. Make those fat cats even fatter!! we shall see what happens. but well all know what is comming.:clap: :clap: :clap: Then when things get better in 3 or so years I can here it now. Its not because of the New President and majority in congress... Its because of what Our Great President Hoover.. Ahh I mean Bush did 3 years ago.:clap:

I tried!!:rolleyes:

pirate4state

05-21-2008, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
**WARNING****

This is getting close to being too political for this board!!!
Only one person keeps making this political. I'll let you do the honors! :)

Ranger Mom

05-21-2008, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by pirate4state
Only one person keeps making this political. I'll let you do the honors! :)

I was doing it as you were posting!!:p

pirate4state

05-21-2008, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I was doing it as you were posting!!:p :thumbsup:

STANG RED

05-21-2008, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Your right. Make those fat cats even fatter!! we shall see what happens. but we all know what is comming.:clap: :clap: :clap: Then when things get better in 3 or so years I can here it now. Its not because of the New President and majority in congress... Its because of what Our Great President Hoover...:clap:

President Hoover???:confused:

WOW, you didnt even come close to addressing my post. Just more of your rediculous uninformed reterict. But then that is not surprising to anyone here I'm sure. Have fun in your delusions comrade.:(

JasperDog94

05-21-2008, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
those 72% ers will out vote those 28%rs ..;) So since congress has an approval rating of around 20% does that make you a 20%er?:taunt: :taunt:

JasperDog94

05-21-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Solutions to this situation are not ALL or NONE....Id Bet Money that If there was serious talk of major overhall of the US oil Industry there would be positive change taking place. But on second Thought... Lets Just keep doing what whe have been doing for the last 8 years!! Lets amend the constitution to allow GWB to serve another term!! Heck things are going so well for us now here and around the world. Why Change a thing?:clap:
Hey, here's a solution that you completely ignored...

Originally posted by JasperDog94
While I agree with this statement, nationalizing the oil industry is not the answer. Remove restrictions on where we can drill and let that dictate price. One of the safest places to drill is offshore. Almost a zero chance for a spill (none in the past 30 years that I can remember) and there's tons of oil out there.

When Katrina and Rita tore through the Gulf of Mexico, over 1000 oil wells were damaged or destroyed. Yet not 1 drop of oil was spilled.