Reasonable Doubt

[BILLYFRED0000]

Reasonable Doubt

On Monday, the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine announced that more than 3,000 scientists have signed a petition rejecting the theory that humans are causing catastrophic global warming. The list of signers features scientists from all disciplines, including physics, climate research, mathematics and engineering. It has more than nine thousand scientists with PhDs.

The institute says the large number of signers contradicts the claim that there is a scientific consensus about human responsibility for climate change. And, it points out the petition has more than 15 times as many scientists as the number involved in the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.


I went over to the site and found that the number of scientists that have signed it said 30,000.

[Macarthur]

you got a link?

[Macarthur]

Okay, I found a link to some of the signatures.

Let me say, I still think there is something to man made global warming. I do think there should be healthy skepticism.

However, I scratch my head on this list a bit. There were several MDs and it also says there are many meterologists.

Dude, MDs should not be considered experts in this areana. And many meterologists are not qualified to speak expertly on climate science.

[rockdale80]

Too bad it is just a bunch of skewed numbers.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/oregon-institute-of-science-and-malarkey/

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Macarthur

Dude, MDs should not be considered experts in this areana. And many meterologists are not qualified to speak expertly on climate science. MD's???? What does a foot Doctor know about Climate change??? meterologist???? weather guys??? I doubt they are an expert in anything except what weather is going to do next week.:rolleyes: Heck I have a some History credentials. Wonder If I can Sign a pettition? I see evidence of Global Warming. :clap: :2thumbsup

[Phil C]

What do we need to do as individuals to help out with the problem? They say we are to blame but don't offer constructive criticism like Simon does for the American Idol contestents.

[BILLYFRED0000]

There are no experts in this mish mash of psuedo science. The key log is the co2 concentrations and there is no proof that CO2 concentrations precede a warmup. Rather that they happen together more or less but not which causes which. Then factor in the fact that CO2 is less than one half of a percent of the atmosphere. Then the fact that we only put about 8 percent of the CO2 into the atmosphere because of man's activities. And last but not least, every green thing on this planet breathes CO2 and produces oxygen as a by product. Whatever happened to common sense?

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Reasonable Doubt

On Monday, the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine announced that more than 3,000 scientists have signed a petition rejecting the theory that humans are causing catastrophic global warming. The list of signers features scientists from all disciplines, including physics, climate research, mathematics and engineering. It has more than nine thousand scientists with PhDs.

The institute says the large number of signers contradicts the claim that there is a scientific consensus about human responsibility for climate change. And, it points out the petition has more than 15 times as many scientists as the number involved in the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.


I went over to the site and found that the number of scientists that have signed it said 30,000.

Doing what I do for a living, I pay close attention to exact wording. If you take the word catastrophic out of that first sentence, I wonder if it would have made a difference in who signed the petition and who didn't.:thinking: :thinking:

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by nobogey72
Doing what I do for a living, I pay close attention to exact wording. If you take the word catastrophic out of that first sentence, I wonder if it would have made a difference in who signed the petition and who didn't.:thinking: :thinking:
True and that is the point. Because what you hear is the same drivel that they said back in the sixties and fifties that basically the population was going to be 10 billion by now and we would be starving to death because of the lack of food. Al Gore and the others are preaching that Man Made Climate change is catastrophic and that is the joke. It is warming up. Who can predict whether it is catastrophic or not? Does man have a part in it? Possibly but is man the driving factor? No.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
True and that is the point. Because what you hear is the same drivel that they said back in the sixties and fifties that basically the population was going to be 10 billion by now and we would be starving to death because of the lack of food. Al Gore and the others are preaching that Man Made Climate change is catastrophic and that is the joke. It is warming up. Who can predict whether it is catastrophic or not? Does man have a part in it? Possibly but is man the driving factor? No.

The problem is that there are many of us here in the middle that believe there is a real issue that may not end up "catastrophic" by their sense, but could impact the world greatly. Then what you have to the two sides that bitch to excess and nothing meaningful is done.

From a pragmatic standpoint, I certainly hope the non-MGW crowd is right. BEcause if they are wrong, it will be a huge price to pay.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Macarthur
The problem is that there are many of us here in the middle that believe there is a real issue that may not end up "catastrophic" by their sense, but could impact the world greatly. Then what you have to the two sides that bitch to excess and nothing meaningful is done.

From a pragmatic standpoint, I certainly hope the non-MGW crowd is right. BEcause if they are wrong, it will be a huge price to pay.

MY point of view is that this is the chicken little crowd. The sky is not falling and they could not prove it in advance if it was. Right now the next 15 years are predicted to cool off. Then what? No one knows and that is the point.

[bandera7]

It is evident that both extreme sides like to scream and yell about their side, hoping that whoever is louder is somehow therefore more correct (not pointing to any specific members, but to people in general as I have experienced). I personally believe that man is not the driving factor at all, and I do not think that we should change our current way of doing things at too high a cost of business. However, if changes could be made that would enable us to have cleaner air and it wouldnt hurt output, then I believe businesses should make them. Whether we as a government can force the businesses to make them is a whole different issue.

[Emerson1]

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

[Macarthur]

[i]Originally posted by bandera7 It is evident that both extreme sides like to scream and yell about their side, hoping that whoever is louder is somehow therefore more correct (not pointing to any specific members, but to people in general as I have experienced).

Agreed.



I personally believe that man is not the driving factor at all, and I do not think that we should change our current way of doing things at too high a cost of business.

I disagree with the first part and agree with the second. I do not believe the two have to be mutually exclusive.



However, if changes could be made that would enable us to have cleaner air and it wouldnt hurt output, then I believe businesses should make them. Whether we as a government can force the businesses to make them is a whole different issue.

I don't like government control at all. However, I think business has a long history of not doing the "right thing" until it is mandated.

[bandera7]

Mac, Im not trying to cause controversy or anything, I am just a little bit confused at the moment...so you are saying that you believe that man is the driving factor but that we should not do much to change it?

[sahen]

Originally posted by Macarthur

Dude, MDs should not be considered experts in this areana. And many meterologists are not qualified to speak expertly on climate science.

MDs all have undergrad degrees and most of them have an undergrad degree in a science related field...thus most MDs are all chemist, biochemist, biologist, etc. as well as doctors...this doesnt even take into consideration the many MD/PhD people who are both Doctors and Researchers...i would think MDs have just as much right to sign this petition as any other scientist...i have a degree in Biochemistry and work as a Chemist, i'd put my signature on it as well...

and the qualifications to speak "expertly" on any scientific field is pretty sketchy...science is constantly changing, however scientist who work w/ science on a daily basis and have a degree in a scientific field typically are going to have a better understanding of what is going on in reguards to the climate than your average joe...just like a chemical engineer would understand how to build a building better than a scientist...2 different but not totally unrelated fields, and there is more than likely a good bit of overlap that they have covered at some point in their career or studies....

[STANG RED]

Recorded history on planet earth is very short compared to the actual age of the planet. Yet even in this small window of recorded history, there are many examples of subtle to rather drastic climate changes that last for various lengths of time. Why are people all of sudden getting all upset over climate changes now? I can tell you why. Some powers that be are trying to make a buck out of it, and if they can get enough ignorant sheep to follow and believe their unfounded fears, they will get it done. And when the climate starts swaying back the other way, they will be in the perfect position to take credit for it. And all their sheep will be singing their praises. What a load of crap!

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Recorded history on planet earth is very short compared to the actual age of the planet. Yet even in this small window of recorded history, there are many examples of subtle to rather drastic climate changes that last for various lengths of time. Why are people all of sudden getting all upset over climate changes now? I can tell you why. Some powers that be are trying to make a buck out of it, and if they can get enough ignorant sheep to follow and believe their unfounded fears, they will get it done. And when the climate starts swaying back the other way, they will be in the perfect position to take credit for it. And all their sheep will be singing their praises. What a load of crap!
Some people just can't see the big picture. They are the same ones who thing it's absolutely crazy to think there is a planet out their with intelligent life.