Plane Crashes Into Toledo Bend

[kepdawg]

Not good! :(

LINK (http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=974&NewsID=896114&CategoryID=18335&on=1)

[Chief Woodman]

OK, plane at 10,00 feet and nosedives into lake. I will really be intrested to see what determination the NTSB makes on this one. On the surface of the story is sounds like either suicide or a MAJOR design flaw. Maintence records will really be big on this one. Plane should have been able to glide about 25-30 miles with no power. Control surfaces jammed should have caused uncontrrolable yaw, loops or rolls which does not match current reports. It is a "fly by wire" plane so we will have to wait. I sure like my old fashioned cable and pulley controls on my sweet little Cherokee!

[JasperDog94]

I can't even imagine fishing on the lake and seeing something like that happen.:eek: :( :(

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
OK, plane at 10,00 feet and nosedives into lake. I will really be intrested to see what determination the NTSB makes on this one. On the surface of the story is sounds like either suicide or a MAJOR design flaw. Maintence records will really be big on this one. Plane should have been able to glide about 25-30 miles with no power. Control surfaces jammed should have caused uncontrrolable yaw, loops or rolls which does not match current reports. It is a "fly by wire" plane so we will have to wait. I sure like my old fashioned cable and pulley controls on my sweet little Cherokee!

Same thought with my Cardinal. This may not be an accurate description of what happened. If they had a catastrophic wing failure would some one on the ground think it was "nose down"? If the controls failed full down, the resulting speed would probably tear off the wings anyway.

I knew there was a good reason to take my old, slow, 35 year old plane over that new, glass cockpitted, turboprop!

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Same thought with my Cardinal. This may not be an accurate description of what happened. If they had a catastrophic wing failure would some one on the ground think it was "nose down"? If the controls failed full down, the resulting speed would probably tear off the wings anyway.

I knew there was a good reason to take my old, slow, 35 year old plane over that new, glass cockpitted, turboprop!

Most interestingly it was a Cirrus SR-22. This is the first plane that I know that has a built in safety parachute. Odd that it crashed this way with this feature.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by gatordaze
Most interestingly it was a Cirrus SR-22. This is the first plane that I know that has a built in safety parachute. Odd that it crashed this way with this feature.

You still have to be able to activate it. If the plane was uncontrollable it a may have happened so violently that the people were incapacitated.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
You still have to be able to activate it. If the plane was uncontrollable it a may have happened so violently that the people were incapacitated.

It would have to be a "Paine Stewart" type moment to keep me from pulling a handle 12" above my head!

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
You still have to be able to activate it. If the plane was uncontrollable it a may have happened so violently that the people were incapacitated.

I am not educated enough to be sure, but isn't the chute an option and not a standard feature? On another note I agree that the discription offered may be far far away from the truth. But anything that would cause airframe failure in a plane that new would almost certainly have to be design flaw or some major faulty maintenance. Of course there is the possiblity of a bird strike with a goose or something near in size. After seeing some pics of a bird strike on my airports home page I know that is some horrific dammage. I fly out of T67, and have a house inside of the airplane hangar.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
I am not educated enough to be sure, but isn't the chute an option and not a standard feature? On another note I agree that the discription offered may be far far away from the truth. But anything that would cause airframe failure in a plane that new would almost certainly have to be design flaw or some major faulty maintenance. Of course there is the possiblity of a bird strike with a goose or something near in size. After seeing some pics of a bird strike on my airports home page I know that is some horrific dammage. I fly out of T67, and have a house inside of the airplane hangar.

Wow, a house inside a hanger!. I thought my T Hanger was OK, but that's a big hanger. I have 3 partners with my Cardinal, and we are just mostly weekend flyers. One partner does fly it on some shorter business trips. I've only had a license for a couple of months, started VERY late in life. Fly from CXO. FAA is in the process of building a tower but still uncontrolled for now.

I thought the chute system was previously an option, but now part of the basic equipment.

[michaelp23]

All right Chief Woodman and ronwx5x. That's enough speculation. Escecially if you don't know what you are talking about. Chief, it's not a fly by wire. It's got cables and pulleys just like your Cherokee does. Yes, its got a sidestick control instead of the traditional control wheel, but the control stick is connectoed to controls cables very similar to yours.

And ronwx5x, it's not a turboprop. It's a six cylinder 310 horsepower piston driven airplane. Yes parachutes are standard on all Cirrus SR22's. The problem is that they have a maximum deployment speed that is surprisingly slow. So by the time you relaize you're out of control, it may be too late to deploy the chute.

The cause of most Cirrus crashes have been that inexperienced weekend pilots buy too much airplane and get themselves into a situation they can't control. These are Technologically Advanced Aircraft (TAA) that require proper training to operate safely. I'm not saying that pilot error caused this crash. We have no way of knowing. And that's my point. Let's not speculate. It doesn't do the aviation industry any favors.

And before you ask me, I am a professional corporate pilot with 5,000+ hours who flys a Citation Sovereign for a living and a Cirrus SR22 for fun.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by michaelp23
All right Chief Woodman and ronwx5x. That's enough speculation. Escecially if you don't know what you are talking about. Chief, it's not a fly by wire. It's got cables and pulleys just like your Cherokee does. Yes, its got a sidestick control instead of the traditional control wheel, but the control stick is connectoed to controls cables very similar to yours.

And ronwx5x, it's not a turboprop. It's a six culinder 310 horsepower piston driven airplane. Yes parachutes are standard on all Cirrus SR22's. The problem is that they have a maximum deployment speed that is surprisingly slow. So by the time you relaize you're out of control, it may be too late to deploy the chute.

The cause of most Cirrus crashes have been that inexperienced weekend pilots buy too much airplane and get themselves into a situation they can't control. These are Technologically Advanced Aircraft (TAA) that require proper training to operate safely. I'm not saying that pilot error caused this crash. We have no way of knowing. And that's my point. Let's not speculate. It doesn't do the aviation industry any favors.

And before you ask me, I am a professional corporate pilot with 5,000+ hours who flys a Citation Sovereign for a living and a Cirrus SR22 for fun.

Probably all very true, but no need to be rude. This is not an NTSB board and we don't claim to be experts, we'll leave that to you. And if we want to speculate, we will. Make errors, sure. But we still enjoy ourselves.

[michaelp23]

Just trying to get a rise out of somebody. It's been a slow day today. Sorry for the rudeness. G;)

CXO is a busy little airport. We go in there pretty often and it can get plenty stressfull with the mix of jets, trainers, and the construction going on; all at an uncontrolled field. Glad to hear they are about to add a control tower. That will certainly help. Please don't take my last post personal. I just like for aviation to be reported on as accurately as possible.

It drives me crazy when a news reporter thinks an "airplane stall" means that the engine quit!! :D

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by michaelp23
Just trying to get a rise out of somebody. It's been a slow day today. Sorry for the rudeness. G;)

CXO is a busy little airport. We go in there pretty often and it can get plenty stressfull with the mix of jets, trainers, and the construction going on; all at an uncontrolled field. Glad to hear they are about to add a control tower. That will certainly help. Please don't take my last post personal. I just like for aviation to be reported on as accurately as possible.

It drives me crazy when a news reporter thinks an "airplane stall" means that the engine quit!! :D

A 737 had to land at IAH with a blown tire a few months back. One of our sterling news anchors was describing it as "the wheel fell off". Yes, CXO is very busy with the "Indian Air Force". I did my private there, then bought into a '75 Cardinal with a friend and two others. Great shape flying-wise, a way to go cosmetically, but we are working on it. Maybe our other runway, 14/32, will get open this year. Rumor has it for Nov. but I wouldn't put much money on that.

The tower looks like it is getting close. The base is done and the upper section is lying on the ground under construction. It will be interesting to see how well they handle the strange accents!

[michaelp23]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
It will be interesting to see how well they handle the strange accents! [/B]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's had trouble understanding them. I had to ask a guy one day if he was really speaking english or just pretending to. He came back with a pretty vigorous reply, but I couldn't understand much of that either!:doh:

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by michaelp23

It drives me crazy when a news reporter thinks an "airplane stall" means that the engine quit!! :D

Isn't that what happened when Maverick and Goose flew threw
Ice man and Slider's jet wash? :confused:

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
I am not educated enough to be sure, but isn't the chute an option and not a standard feature? On another note I agree that the discription offered may be far far away from the truth. But anything that would cause airframe failure in a plane that new would almost certainly have to be design flaw or some major faulty maintenance. Of course there is the possiblity of a bird strike with a goose or something near in size. After seeing some pics of a bird strike on my airports home page I know that is some horrific dammage. I fly out of T67, and have a house inside of the airplane hangar.

My step sister lived in hanger/house around Justin several years ago. Since there wasn't anything in the hanger portion of it...my kids thought that was the most awesome place ever.

The "house" portion was one huge room and this one had a little bedroom built off of it! I thought it was cool!!!

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Isn't that what happened when Maverick and Goose flew threw
Ice man and Slider's jet wash? :confused:

were they inverted?

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by SWMustang
were they inverted?

Maintaining foriegn relations.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by gatordaze
Maintaining foriegn relations.

Believe me, this is not a joke and I know it to be so since I used the same school to get my private license. 90% of all the students (around 70 or so) come from India or Pakistan, a few from the mid-east and a couple from South Korea. My instructor was glad to have me just so he had at least one student who spoke English as a first language.

The students do all speak English, just with varying success. Most know the words, the pronunciation is the difficult part for them. I'm just glad I didn't have to do the lessons in Hindi or Urdu. The students are here on a special visa and can only remain six months. The school has to report their attendance and ensure they return home at the end of training or whenever they fail to complete the course, which is somewhat often. The total cost to them is over $40,000 including housing, transportation, and lodging. Most of the ones I spoke with just wanted to finish and go home. They go home and have a job just about every time.

[kepdawg]

Update (http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=974&NewsID=897254&CategoryID=18335&on=1)

Not much new info...

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
The students do all speak English, just with varying success. Most know the words, the pronunciation is the difficult part for them. That reminded me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY&NR=1).

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
My step sister lived in hanger/house around Justin several years ago. Since there wasn't anything in the hanger portion of it...my kids thought that was the most awesome place ever.

The "house" portion was one huge room and this one had a little bedroom built off of it! I thought it was cool!!!

My house portion is 1500 sq ft and is modeled on the "outside" to look like Old San Juan. It looks like 3 different buildings. One day maybe I can get a picture on here for you to see.

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by michaelp23
All right Chief Woodman and ronwx5x. That's enough speculation. Escecially if you don't know what you are talking about. Chief, it's not a fly by wire. It's got cables and pulleys just like your Cherokee does. Yes, its got a sidestick control instead of the traditional control wheel, but the control stick is connectoed to controls cables very similar to yours.

And ronwx5x, it's not a turboprop. It's a six cylinder 310 horsepower piston driven airplane. Yes parachutes are standard on all Cirrus SR22's. The problem is that they have a maximum deployment speed that is surprisingly slow. So by the time you relaize you're out of control, it may be too late to deploy the chute.

The cause of most Cirrus crashes have been that inexperienced weekend pilots buy too much airplane and get themselves into a situation they can't control. These are Technologically Advanced Aircraft (TAA) that require proper training to operate safely. I'm not saying that pilot error caused this crash. We have no way of knowing. And that's my point. Let's not speculate. It doesn't do the aviation industry any favors.

And before you ask me, I am a professional corporate pilot with 5,000+ hours who flys a Citation Sovereign for a living and a Cirrus SR22 for fun.

Sorry if my thoughts disturbed you. Funny thing is some SR22's are turbocharged, at least according to the makers website. Maybe the is some distinction between tuboprop and turbocharged properller aircraft but I would be suprised.

[michaelp23]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
Sorry if my thoughts disturbed you. Funny thing is some SR22's are turbocharged, at least according to the makers website. Maybe the is some distinction between tuboprop and turbocharged properller aircraft but I would be suprised.

Yes sir, there is quite a difference between a turboharged piston engine like those on the Cirrus and a turboprop. A turbocharged piston engine is only different from a normally aspirated piston engine like the one on your airplane in that the incoming air is compressed before entering the carburetor (or intake manifold for fuel injected engines). It burns 100 octane Avgas. This gives the engine more dense air (more air molicules per a given volume) thus allowing it to maintain sea level horsepower to a higher altitude, normally somehwere around 10,0000 feet. Whereas your normally aspirated engine begins to lose horsepower as soon as you start climbing.

A turboprop engine is completely different. It is basically a jet engine with a reduction gearbox that allows it to drive a propeller. It burns jet fuel. The mechanics of a turboprop engine itself are pretty much exactly the same as a jet engine. The air is compressed by centrifugal and axial compressor turbines before being ignited inside the ignition chamber. The resulting force then spins the power turbines which then spin the main shaft which spins the propellor and the compressor turbines. It is, therefore a completely self sustaining process that does not require any outside ignition scource (such as spark plugs in piston engines). You will find turboprop engines on airplanes such as King Air's and all prop driven commuter airliners (such as the Saab 340's that American Eagle flys).

So, yes there is a big difference between a turbocharged piston engine and a turboprop engine. They are as different as a jet engine is from a rocket engine on the space shuttle. My point is, when it comes to aviation, too many times people who think they know what they are talking about make inaccurate statements. These inaccuracies only serve to further confuse the general public who ultimately take a dim view of an industry that they don't understand. That's why people have irrational fears of flying, or even of living close to airports for fear that planes will inevitably come crashing into their living room. We pilots should be part of the positive education in this regard. We certainly should not conribute to the problem.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.