Baseball Question: Smart Play or Bush League

[eagles_victory]

Not naming any names but two teams were playing for a 3a region 3 playoff spot. The game was tied at 7 with a runner on first. Batter hits the ball to short and they throw the guy out at second and there is a close play at first in which the runner is called safe. The pitching teams comes out to argue the call and a huge argument goes on for a few minutes.

Before the argument the guy at second ran to third and stays on third. Everyone forgets he was out at second and noone says anything next play guy hits a single and the runner scores from third to walk off and win the game. When the opposing team notices what happens the umpires have already left and no protest can be put through. Is that a smart play by the runner or bush league?

[crzyjournalist03]

neither...it's stupid coaching.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
neither...it's stupid coaching. yea very true

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
neither...it's stupid coaching.

wow and terrible stats person.

i would have been all over that! :nerd: :D

someone with a "cooler" head needed to inform the coach/umpires that the baserunner was out and should be in the dug out.

just wow...

[crzyjournalist03]

How long does it take to notice the mistake? If the umpires are already packed up and gone, it's been several minutes unless the home ump is driving home with his chest protector on (which I doubt).

And shouldn't the play have been annotated in the official scorebook? There should be a way to protest a game after its conclusion in circumstances like this.

[coach]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
How long does it take to notice the mistake? If the umpires are already packed up and gone, it's been several minutes unless the home ump is driving home with his chest protector on (which I doubt).

And shouldn't the play have been annotated in the official scorebook? There should be a way to protest a game after its conclusion in circumstances like this.

i dont think anyone recorded the out bc it was a bang bang play and a very wild game they had rallied down 7-1 in the bottom of the seventh...and yes this ump changes in his car before he leaves in the parking lot..i know this bc he is one of my dad's client and my dad wanted me to meet him after the game and he was behind his car in the parking lot completely naked with a fat cigar in his mouth and walked up to me and told me i had a good hit and everything like nothing was wrong

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by coach
i dont think anyone recorded the out bc it was a bang bang play and a very wild game they had rallied down 7-1 in the bottom of the seventh...and yes this ump changes in his car before he leaves in the parking lot..i know this bc he is one of my dad's client and my dad wanted me to meet him after the game and he was behind his car in the parking lot completely naked with a fat cigar in his mouth and walked up to me and told me i had a good hit and everything like nothing was wrong but the opposing coach came out to argue, correct? that's what caused the "confusion" with the baserunner forgetting he was called out at 2nd?? I don't think so!

Unless after all the "hoopla" of the argument b/w coach & ump the batter got his hit and the "winning" run scored. there would still be plenty of time for a stats keeper to notice that the person at 3rd should NOT be there, IMO!

[coach]

Originally posted by pirate4state
but the opposing coach came out to argue, correct? that's what caused the "confusion" with the baserunner forgetting he was called out at 2nd?? I don't think so!

Unless after all the "hoopla" of the argument b/w coach & ump the batter got his hit and the "winning" run scored. there would still be plenty of time for a stats keeper to notice that the person at 3rd should NOT be there, IMO!

no there was a close play at first that the coachargued bc the coach didnt think about the runner at second

[CenTexSports]

Are you sure there were not runners at first and second? The home plate umpire should have been on top of the runner going to third during the argument. It all sounds kind of fishy.

I say if what you say is true, file a written protest with the UIL.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Are you sure there were not runners at first and second? The home plate umpire should have been on top of the runner going to third during the argument. It all sounds kind of fishy.

my thought exactly.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by coach
no there was a close play at first that the coachargued bc the coach didnt think about the runner at second I understand that, but the reason it was a close play is because they tried to turn two. Meaning they got ONE out at second!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Not naming any names but two teams were playing for a 3a region 3 playoff spot. The game was tied at 7 with a runner on first. Batter hits the ball to short and they throw the guy out at second and there is a close play at first in which the runner is called safe. The pitching teams comes out to argue the call and a huge argument goes on for a few minutes.

Before the argument the guy at second ran to third and stays on third. Everyone forgets he was out at second and noone says anything next play guy hits a single and the runner scores from third to walk off and win the game. When the opposing team notices what happens the umpires have already left and no protest can be put through. Is that a smart play by the runner or bush league?


I guess I am not understandig how so many people "forgot" he was out, ESPECIALLY bttm of last inning between two teams winner goes to play-offs

Something not adding up IMO

[UPanIN]

Fans would have been all over that and told the coach before the game was over. Hard to believe. For a playoff spot??? I don't think so.

[buff4life]

its both, its stupid and busch league because he was out and out of respect for the game should have gone to the dugout...and was equally stupid that neither the coach, players, or fans noticed the guy going to third...and wow to not notice that as soon as the game is called and sprint over the umpires is unbelievable no matter how crazy or intense the game was

[NastySlot]

how heck does the kid playing third and the shortstop not notice the kid at third.......esp. shortstop that was in on the play at second base to get him out....and how many assistant coaches were in the dugout and did not to notice....and the were there any fans there........there is always some loud mouth who thinks he can do a better job then both the coaches and umpires...he missed out on his chance.....it is hard to believe that so many people could miss that...........I wouldn't call it bush....I call it cheating.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by pirate4state


i would have been all over that! :nerd: :D


I would of missed it, I am always getting stuff wrong

[Emerson1]

How did the fans not notice? I would of been on the field

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by NastySlot
there is always some loud mouth who thinks he can do a better job then both the coaches and umpires...he missed out on his chance.....

lol, that made me laugh real hard for some reason...

[g$$]

Somebody should have caught that - umpires, coaches, defensive players, press box, scorekeepers, or even fans. Inexcusable...

May be grounds for appeal based on rules/playoff implications & what transpired. Did coaches appeal immediately?

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by NastySlot
how heck does the kid playing third and the shortstop not notice the kid at third.......esp. shortstop that was in on the play at second base to get him out....and how many assistant coaches were in the dugout and did not to notice....and the were there any fans there........there is always some loud mouth who thinks he can do a better job then both the coaches and umpires...he missed out on his chance.....it is hard to believe that so many people could miss that...........I wouldn't call it bush....I call it cheating.


blue must have called him safe at second also. maybe that is what the fuss was all about. no way coaches and umps could leave that kid on third...

[Panther One]

It's not cheating...it's a smart play by the runner on second. Good coaches always tell their players never to leave the field until the umpire looks at you and tells you that you are out. When sliding into second, the runner often has no clue whether he was safe or out. I've seen situations where the runner is called safe, but the runner assumes he was out and starts trotting off the field, only to be tagged out.

As a base runner, if you don't know what the ump signaled, continue with the play. If you were out, the umpires will let you know that you were out. In this case, the umpires either thought he was safe initially, or screwed up big time. The blame should be placed on the umps and the opposing team for not catching the mistake, if it was indeed a mistake.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Panther One
It's not cheating...it's a smart play by the runner on second. Good coaches always tell their players never to leave the field until the umpire looks at you and tells you that you are out. When sliding into second, the runner often has no clue whether he was safe or out. I've seen situations where the runner is called safe, but the runner assumes he was out and starts trotting off the field, only to be tagged out.

As a base runner, if you don't know what the ump signaled, continue with the play. If you were out, the umpires will let you know that you were out. In this case, the umpires either thought he was safe initially, or screwed up big time. The blame should be placed on the umps and the opposing team for not catching the mistake, if it was indeed a mistake.

maybe i missed something... i thought that the runner at second was ruled out and the coach was questioning the play at one....so if the runner at two was out and he and the coach knew it and they not only stayed in play but moved up one i think it is cheating...i have seen runners cut third base on plays to score...that is heads up....esp. on squeeze plays....no one is usually watching a runner at two ...usually the runner at three coming in on the squeeze.

[Panther One]

Originally posted by NastySlot
maybe i missed something... i thought that the runner at second was ruled out and the coach was questioning the play at one....so if the runner at two was out and he and the coach knew it and they not only stayed in play but moved up one i think it is cheating...i have seen runners cut third base on plays to score...that is heads up....esp. on squeeze plays....no one is usually watching a runner at two ...usually the runner at three coming in on the squeeze.
Since none of us actually saw the play, I think we all have our own interpretation of what happened.

[coach]

ok this is what happened........

the bases were loaded and they hit a ground ball to 2nd, they tried to turn two but they threw the ball away and instead of going to the dugout the player went to third and there was so much going on since the team was rallying from 6 down in the last inning and two runs had scored nobody noticed that the kid went to second..the next batter they knocked him in...the kid said afterwords the umpire told the coaches that the play at 2nd was really safe bc the player came off the bag to catch the ball..but the winning teams coach said he was sure the ump called an out but for what ever reason the fans, scorekeeper, and opposing team was so worried that they tied up the score on a for sure game ending double play that they didnt realize the player went to third....

[coach]

i have another story to tell the downlow tomorrow about this game that is freakin hilarious

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by coach
ok this is what happened........

the bases were loaded and they hit a ground ball to 2nd, they tried to turn two but they threw the ball away and instead of going to the dugout the player went to third and there was so much going on since the team was rallying from 6 down in the last inning and two runs had scored nobody noticed that the kid went to second..the next batter they knocked him in...the kid said afterwords the umpire told the coaches that the play at 2nd was really safe bc the player came off the bag to catch the ball..but the winning teams coach said he was sure the ump called an out but for what ever reason the fans, scorekeeper, and opposing team was so worried that they tied up the score on a for sure game ending double play that they didnt realize the player went to third....

:confused: :confused: WHAT????

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by coach
ok this is what happened........

the bases were loaded and they hit a ground ball to 2nd, they tried to turn two but they threw the ball away and instead of going to the dugout the player went to third and there was so much going on since the team was rallying from 6 down in the last inning and two runs had scored nobody noticed that the kid went to second..the next batter they knocked him in...the kid said afterwords the umpire told the coaches that the play at 2nd was really safe bc the player came off the bag to catch the ball..but the winning teams coach said he was sure the ump called an out but for what ever reason the fans, scorekeeper, and opposing team was so worried that they tied up the score on a for sure game ending double play that they didnt realize the player went to third....

You need to work on you story telling skills. Sheesh!

[jimmyceatworld]

This whole thread is cracking me up because I was the only one there :)

Coach got some facts wrong but oh well, no one's perfect. Especially the third baseman who didn't notice the out runner went to third :D

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
This whole thread is cracking me up because I was the only one there :)

Coach got some facts wrong but oh well, no one's perfect. Especially the third baseman who didn't notice the out runner went to third :D


please explain it then

[jimmyceatworld]

Down 7-4 in the bottom of the 7th, the home team scores a run and later has the bases loaded. Batter puts it in play 2nd basemen and tosses it to second base to get an out. Then there's an error I believe which allows 2 of the runners to score. Guy who's out at 2nd goes to third. NO ONE notices. Pitcher tries to pick off the guy at first who just got on and the pitcher throws the ball away so the player at 3rd trots in for the win.

Dang, that was harder to explain than I thought

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by coach
ok this is what happened........

the bases were loaded and they hit a ground ball to 2nd, they tried to turn two but they threw the ball away and instead of going to the dugout the player went to third and there was so much going on since the team was rallying from 6 down in the last inning and two runs had scored nobody noticed that the kid went to second..the next batter they knocked him in...the kid said afterwords the umpire told the coaches that the play at 2nd was really safe bc the player came off the bag to catch the ball..but the winning teams coach said he was sure the ump called an out but for what ever reason the fans, scorekeeper, and opposing team was so worried that they tied up the score on a for sure game ending double play that they didnt realize the player went to third....

that doesnt make sense.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
Down 7-4 in the bottom of the 7th, the home team scores a run and later has the bases loaded. Batter puts it in play 2nd basemen and tosses it to second base to get an out. Then there's an error I believe which allows 2 of the runners to score. Guy who's out at 2nd goes to third. NO ONE notices. Pitcher tries to pick off the guy at first who just got on and the pitcher throws the ball away so the player at 3rd trots in for the win.

Dang, that was harder to explain than I thought

this does make sense.

[Txbroadcaster]

while the story telling is better...The results still make no sense

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
Down 7-4 in the bottom of the 7th, the home team scores a run and later has the bases loaded. Batter puts it in play 2nd basemen and tosses it to second base to get an out. Then there's an error I believe which allows 2 of the runners to score. Guy who's out at 2nd goes to third. NO ONE notices. Pitcher tries to pick off the guy at first who just got on and the pitcher throws the ball away so the player at 3rd trots in for the win.

Dang, that was harder to explain than I thought

This still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
while the story telling is better...The results still make no sense

what he is saying is that after the force out at second, the SS probably threw it away from the first baseman and the runner that started the play at second comes around to score (obviously the runnner from third scores easily as well) then the player who hit the ball is safe at first, maybe even second because of the error.

atleast thats what i gathered from coaches explanation.

[jimmyceatworld]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
while the story telling is better...The results still make no sense

Why does it make no sense?

[pirate4state]

Bases loaded

runner at 3rd scores 7-6
runner at 2nd advances to 3rd and scores on throwing error 7-7
runner at 1st thrown out at 2nd
batter reaches on error

Is that right?

Then the runner that everyone ASSUMED was out (or was he in fact called out?) just whistles & skips his way to 3rd? And no one noticed???

So, now you've got runners on the corners (when you are only suppose to have 1 runner at first) with 2 outs and the pitcher is trying to pick off the runner at 1st (?) and throws it away and allows a baserunner that isn't suppose to be at 3rd score?

Terrible

[jimmyceatworld]

That's pretty much it

... don't exactly remember how many outs there were

[pirate4state]

That's a little different than how coach or ev explained it in the first post. LOL :crazy1:

I still can't believe the umps didn't make it CLEAR that the runner was either safe or that he had been thrown out!!! :speech:

[coach]

Originally posted by pirate4state
That's a little different than how coach or ev explained it in the first post. LOL :crazy1:

I still can't believe the umps didn't make it CLEAR that the runner was either safe or that he had been thrown out!!! :speech:

i didnt know exactly how the winning run scored but i knew that he went to third after being called out on an error ijust didnt know they tried to pick the guy off at 1st....

[coach]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
This whole thread is cracking me up because I was the only one there :)

Coach got some facts wrong but oh well, no one's perfect. Especially the third baseman who didn't notice the out runner went to third :D

sorry jimmy this is comming from trammel...i asked him to explain it to me perfectly and he said he really didnt know what happened...u know how dumb he is lol

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by coach
sorry jimmy this is comming from trammel...i asked him to explain it to me perfectly and he said he really didnt know what happened...u know how dumb he is lol And I heard it from Hero Harris so you know that his explanation was probably about as clear as mud.

[jimmyceatworld]

Hero and Camel aren't exactly the guys you want to talk sports with around the water cooler

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
Why does it make no sense?


no..i meant them allowing the out to stay on the base made no sense

[jimmyceatworld]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
no..i meant them allowing the out to stay on the base made no sense

Oh okay. Well like Coach said, it was highly emotional and there was a lot going on. I'm not saying they shouldn't have noticed, but it was just one of those flukes that you rarely ever see. The funny thing is that I don't know of anyone (pulling for either side) that said anything about it until the game was over.

[nobogey72]

Wait a minute!! Who's on first?:confused:

[jimmyceatworld]

Originally posted by nobogey72
Wait a minute!! Who's on first?:confused:

classic :clap:

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by nobogey72
Wait a minute!! Who's on first?:confused: heehee I was gonna post that earlier. ;)

[neck_06]

blame the coach and the players of the losing team for having their heads up their ___. they should've noticed this immediately

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Not naming any names but two teams were playing for a 3a region 3 playoff spot. The game was tied at 7 with a runner on first. Batter hits the ball to short and they throw the guy out at second and there is a close play at first in which the runner is called safe. The pitching teams comes out to argue the call and a huge argument goes on for a few minutes.

Before the argument the guy at second ran to third and stays on third. Everyone forgets he was out at second and noone says anything next play guy hits a single and the runner scores from third to walk off and win the game. When the opposing team notices what happens the umpires have already left and no protest can be put through. Is that a smart play by the runner or bush league? It's bush league by the coach in the third base coaching box. More than likely the kid only did what he was told. It is unethical and downright cheating to pull a despicable act such as this and the coach should be brought in front of the UIL and publicly reprimanded. We as coaches are to uphold what is right and good about HS athletics and there is nothing right or good about stealing a victory and a play-off spot from a group of 16,17, and 18 year old kids.

[g$$]

Originally posted by neck_06
blame the coach and the players of the losing team for having their heads up their ___. they should've noticed this immediately

Agreed. You call timeout & raise heck until somebody realizes what has happened & fixes it. Somebody has to notice this.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by pirate4state
That's a little different than how coach or ev explained it in the first post. LOL :crazy1:

You have to think outside the box to understand what he was saying....like me. :p

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
It's bush league by the coach in the third base coaching box. More than likely the kid only did what he was told. It is unethical and downright cheating to pull a despicable act such as this and the coach should be brought in front of the UIL and publicly reprimanded. We as coaches are to uphold what is right and good about HS athletics and there is nothing right or good about stealing a victory and a play-off spot from a group of 16,17, and 18 year old kids.

I have to disagree. What if the player and coach thought the runner was safe at 2nd? It is the umpires job to make sure the runner leaves the base after the call.

[eagles_victory]

I talked to the player and he said the reason he went to third is because he never saw the umpire call him out.