Brownwood pitcher throws 3rd straight no-hitter

[Adidas410s]

Brownwood junior right-hander Shelby Miller threw his third consecutive no-hitter on Tuesday, tossing a five-inning perfect game in a 10-0 win over Waco University.

Miller, who threw no-hitters against San Angelo Lakeview and Copperas Cove last month, faced the minimum 15 hitters in the mercy rule win over Waco. He struck out 14 of them.

On the year, Miller is 5-2, with a 1.14 ERA through 37 innings of work. He's allowed just eight hits and has struck out 78 batters against 15 walks. He has pegged the radar gun at 94 mph.

[ronwx5x]

Is he the QB for the football team?

[Adidas410s]

Casey Paschall is the QB.

[Snyder_TigerFan]

Who did the losses come against?

[espn1]

.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Casey Paschall is the QB.

Then I guess the proper question would have been, "Is he Casey Paschall?" j/k

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Then I guess the proper question would have been, "Is he Casey Paschall?" j/k
I chose to tell you who the QB was instead and let you make your own determination.

Now go buy another t-shrit! :p :p :p

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
I chose to tell you who the QB was instead and let you make your own determination.

Now go buy another t-shrit! :p :p :p

Wrong. I have already stated that I do not actually own a t-shirt from any school. However, I did graduate from Tech. Now that I think about it, I don't have TT-shirt either.

[Daddy D 11]

I've seen him throw twice this year, he is a good pitcher but doesnt touch 94. He throws hard, but not that hard lol

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I've seen him throw twice this year, he is a good pitcher but doesnt touch 94. He throws hard, but not that hard lol

Prove it

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Prove it

Kep, are you no longer trying to be nice?

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Prove it

Doesn't the burden of proof lie with the prosecutor? :thinking: :devil:

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Kep, are you no longer trying to be nice?

Does my sig still say I'm trying to be nice?

[Daddy D 11]

ive seen 94 multiple times, i gaurantee you he doesnt. He might, might touch 90.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Does my sig still say I'm trying to be nice?

That's not what I asked, only the reason I asked. I'm going to continue to like you until you make me quit.:D

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
ive seen 94 multiple times, i gaurantee you he doesnt. He might, might touch 90.

So you really have no idea?

[Daddy D 11]

haha i have a much better idea than you do. Considering you've never seen the kid pitch. I beat him last year in Brownwood and threw harder than he did, a Red Sox scout proved that to me after the game. A this year i throw 2-3 MPH harder, and he throws about the same amount harder. Then saw him in Marble Falls and Brownwood again this year. So unless he gained 5 MPH in about 2 weeks...i doubt he throws 94.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
haha i have a much better idea than you do. Considering you've never seen the kid pitch. I beat him last year in Brownwood and threw harder than he did, a Red Sox scout proved that to me after the game. A this year i throw 2-3 MPH harder, and he throws about the same amount harder. Then saw him in Marble Falls and Brownwood again this year. So unless he gained 5 MPH in about 2 weeks...i doubt he throws 94.

So, Daddy D, how hard can you throw? And can you control your heater?

[Daddy D 11]

i have topped out a 88, ill throw 86 consistantly, some night 87. and control is what ive always had, luckily ive grown into this fastball thing the last few years:D

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
i have topped out a 88, ill throw 86 consistantly, some night 87. and control is what ive always had, luckily ive grown into this fastball thing the last few years:D

Any other pitches? How's your bat?

[Daddy D 11]

oh i cant swing to save my life, i havent hit in the last 2 years. lol and i have a 12 to 6 curve and a circle change. the change is my best pitch IMO. I keep trying to learn how to throw a slider but i cant figure it out, hopefully ill learn how to in college.

[Panther One]

He probably throws consistently in the mid to upper 80's, but let if fly once or twice to get into the low 90's. If this kid was pumping it up there 94 consistently, I'd like to know the two teams that beat him...

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Panther One
He probably throws consistently in the mid to upper 80's, but let if fly once or twice to get into the low 90's. If this kid was pumping it up there 94 consistently, I'd like to know the two teams that beat him...

hey panther one, you going to be in the area tonight?

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Wrong. I have already stated that I do not actually own a t-shirt from any school. However, I did graduate from Tech. Now that I think about it, I don't have TT-shirt either.

haha I didn't read too much in that thread...just saw the "I'm a t-shirt fan" and thought I'd take a fun little jab at ya! :p

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
He probably throws consistently in the mid to upper 80's, but let if fly once or twice to get into the low 90's. If this kid was pumping it up there 94 consistently, I'd like to know the two teams that beat him...

Agreed.

Velocity is always overstated. I have not seen the kid pitch, but this is usually overzealous fans and/or parents stating such & it spreads like wildfire. Never believe it unless you have a scout tell you or you see the gun yourself. He probably sits mid to upper 80s right now.

My nephew threw 88-91 mph in hs, would touch 92 occasionally. He was nationally recruited & signed with Texas. Shoulder surgery & the need for a fresh start has taken him now to Oregon's program under George Horton from Cal State Fullerton fame (2004 NC beat Texas, CSF is a great program with many titles). Rumors in hs had him throwing crazy #s, like low to mid 90s consistently. He may get there with maturity, better coaching & if healthy, but he's not there yet.

Few things to remember:
Avg. MLB fastball = 90-91 mph (includes whole staff of 11-12 guys x 30 teams)
Avg. major college fastball = 86-87 mph righty / 82-83 mph lefty (again whole staff)

**The guys that can touch mid to upper 90s & stay there are SPECIAL. Josh Beckett threw that hard in hs at Spring as have others like Kyle Drabek at The Woodlands, but they are few & far between. Both were 1st round picks. LG's Homer Bailey fits here too, & he is highly regarded in the Reds system (AAA for now). Velocity only gets you so far at that level.

All velocity measures is arm strength. It does not measure if a guy can pitch effectively. 3 top qualities for a pitcher are & always will be this order:

1. Command/late movement = putting it where you want it, when you want it there consistently; late movement keeps you off the barrel of the bat.
2. Change speeds
3. Velocity = nice to have & always desired, but you can win with avg. velocity if you have quality secondary pitches (must be enough of a difference between fastball & off-speed stuff, thus why Woody Williams got released; everything looked the same to hitter at this late stage of career).

**Hard & straight gets hit hard & far. I would much rather face a hard thrower with little else than a junk baller anyday. You sit dead-red, eliminate all other pitches, & take a hack. Crafty guys gave me more trouble. Most pitchers work off the fastball 1st, while most lefties pitch backwards (off-speed & breaking stuff sets up mediocre fastball & it appears harder than it is). This is true unless you just have a devastating out-pitch, like Trevor Hoffman's change-up or Tug McGraw's screwball or Larry Andersen's slider, etc. Hoffman used to throw 87-89, but now that he has lost velocity as he gets older the change is not nearly as effective. Hitters can pick it up more easily now, but he is still tough. Same with Greg Maddux - he is still good but only when his command is really on that game. Little margin for error now with decreased velocity (used to be upper 80s to low 90s). Roger Clemens developed a split-finger pitch as he got older & that saved his career (also great command).

I played thru juco baseball & previously worked for the Astros in Scouting/Player Development. Most of the #s you hear are bogus. Some of the guns in MLB parks are juiced too for gamesmanship purposes. Take them all with a grain of salt unless you see it for yourself.

[Looking4number8]

Brownwood plays Waco Midway in Waco on monday. I would bet on Shelby pitching that game (although I am not sure) Midway is awesome in baseball so that should be a pretty good test for him.

Bring your guns and clock him. I have heard from several good friends with sons on team that scouts have been clocking him in the 90's. Though you are right, I have not seen him myself because my daughter pitches for our sofball team and we are always playing on the same nights.

Waco should be close for some of you... come see what you think

[g$$]

Originally posted by lookingfornumbe
Brownwood plays Waco Midway in Waco on monday. I would bet on Shelby pitching that game (although I am not sure) Midway is awesome in baseball so that should be a pretty good test for him.

Bring your guns and clock him. I have heard from several good friends with sons on team that scouts have been clocking him in the 90's. Though you are right, I have not seen him myself because my daughter pitches for our sofball team and we are always playing on the same nights.

Waco should be close for some of you... come see what you think

Wish I could but I live in Houston. I am not saying the kid is not talented, because obviously he is. But I also know that velocity gets exagerrated from experience. It's not his fault that bogus info. gets out.

I will ask around about him...what's his story as far as college recruiting & professional scouting? Does he play select ball for an upper tier team (Premier Baseball)? Best of luck to him.

[bwdlionfan]

I don't know about baseball but he was 3rd team punter on the Texas Sports Writers all state team and 2nd team punter on the AP all state team, so he might be getting some looks there??

Anybody from Brownwood know?

[BwdLion_80]

Shelby did play select ball last fall in the Austin area. Which team, I don't know. I don't know if he has been contacted by anyone in particular for sure or not. Just about every game he has thrown in this season has been out of town. With the pitching rotation that they have right now, he will only start in the out of town games.

I also have heard that he was clocked throwing as high as 94 in the Cove win. I have umpired for a long time and have seen several pitcher that throw in the low 90's and high 80's and I can tell you this, I cannot tell you the difference between a pitch that is 89 and 94. The difference between 89 and 94 is so small you are only talking about a difference of less than 1/10000 of a second or so. No one can tell the difference with just their eyes, I don't care who you are. While I have not called behind the plate with him this year, I can tell you this, he can throw very hard. Throwing 3 no hitters in a row, with one being a perfect game, is an amazing feat no matter what level you are talking about. Is he throwing 90+? The only ones that can tell you for sure are the men that are sitting in the stands with the radar guns.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Brownwood junior right-hander Shelby Miller threw his third consecutive no-hitter on Tuesday, tossing a five-inning perfect game in a 10-0 win over Waco University.

Miller, who threw no-hitters against San Angelo Lakeview and Copperas Cove last month, faced the minimum 15 hitters in the mercy rule win over Waco. He struck out 14 of them.

On the year, Miller is 5-2, with a 1.14 ERA through 37 innings of work. He's allowed just eight hits and has struck out 78 batters against 15 walks. He has pegged the radar gun at 94 mph.


Congrats to miller. sounds like he has a bright future...

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by BwdLion_80
The difference between 89 and 94 is so small you are only talking about a difference of less than 1/10000 of a second or so. No one can tell the difference with just their eyes, I don't care who you are. I am willing to dispute this. I think you just haven't seen enough of those guys in the low 90's to make the connection. That 5 mph difference is huge for a hitter. It changes his entire approach. 89mph will make you think "I gotta be quick" whereas 94 mph will make you think "I gotta start sooner." That is an adjustment made simply off of visuals. Of course there are also the handfull of pitchers out there that throw 87 that hide the ball effectively enough to look like 94-95 to a hitter as well. Those are the pitchers that the ball doesn't look all that fast out of his hand but it appears to speed up on the way to the plate, or explode on the hitter. There are also the big strong pitchers that throw low 90's but the ball appears a little slower than that to the hitter. A radar gun is good for nailing down what the guy actually throws but what is more important in my view is how deceptive is it on top of the radar gun. Besides, a pro scout that sees pitching everyday can tell within 1-2 mph what a cat is throwing before he ever pulls his gun out.

[g$$]

Originally posted by BwdLion_80
Shelby did play select ball last fall in the Austin area. Which team, I don't know. I don't know if he has been contacted by anyone in particular for sure or not. Just about every game he has thrown in this season has been out of town. With the pitching rotation that they have right now, he will only start in the out of town games.

I also have heard that he was clocked throwing as high as 94 in the Cove win. I have umpired for a long time and have seen several pitcher that throw in the low 90's and high 80's and I can tell you this, I cannot tell you the difference between a pitch that is 89 and 94. The difference between 89 and 94 is so small you are only talking about a difference of less than 1/10000 of a second or so. No one can tell the difference with just their eyes, I don't care who you are. While I have not called behind the plate with him this year, I can tell you this, he can throw very hard. Throwing 3 no hitters in a row, with one being a perfect game, is an amazing feat no matter what level you are talking about. Is he throwing 90+? The only ones that can tell you for sure are the men that are sitting in the stands with the radar guns.

With all due respect, trained eyes can tell the difference b/t 89 & 94 mph if you do it everyday. I know I can - I played thru juco ball, worked in pro ball, & have umpired top kids too. The difference of 1-2 mph is minimal, but 4-5 mph is distinguishable. Any scout or long-time player can too. The difference b/t 89 & 94 is 2-3 feet on your fastball. To the avg. fan, no they can't tell; but to guys who do it for a living, yes.

No doubt the kid is talented & I wish him well. If he played in the Austin area, it was probably for the Slam or Wings or ABC. All of those are top teams who travel & play other top teams (Houston Heat, Kyle Chapman, ST Sliders, Dallas BAT, Dallas Mustangs, other states' teams, etc.).

And again, velocity is only one component. Certainly nice to have & allows you more margin for error, but not the be all/end all. "Cunny thumbers" can get you out too!

[g$$]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I am willing to dispute this. I think you just haven't seen enough of those guys in the low 90's to make the connection. That 5 mph difference is huge for a hitter. It changes his entire approach. 89mph will make you think "I gotta be quick" whereas 94 mph will make you think "I gotta start sooner." That is an adjustment made simply off of visuals. Of course there are also the handfull of pitchers out there that throw 87 that hide the ball effectively enough to look like 94-95 to a hitter as well. Those are the pitchers that the ball doesn't look all that fast out of his hand but it appears to speed up on the way to the plate, or explode on the hitter. There are also the big strong pitchers that throw low 90's but the ball appears a little slower than that to the hitter. A radar gun is good for nailing down what the guy actually throws but what is more important in my view is how deceptive is it on top of the radar gun. Besides, a pro scout that sees pitching everyday can tell within 1-2 mph what a cat is throwing before he ever pulls his gun out.

Agreed, did not see your post before I posted. The reason scouts gun almost every pitch is to see where a guy "sits" & what he can touch occasionally over course of outing. They know within 1-2 mph what he is throwing anyway. It's all relative & it's their job. They watch mechanics, movement, breaking ball, body frame, temperament on mound, etc. & make a projection on the kid's future & upside. It's like any line of work - they know their jobs inside & out.

Your assessment is dead-on buddy! Deception is the key - hitting is timing & pitching is disrupting that timing. Some guys who throw upper 80s may be tougher to hit (heavy ball, deceptive, etc.) than a guy throwing 92ish straight as a string & is raked all over the yard. Any good hitter loves a hard & straight fastball.

I am asking around on the kid. Houston Area high schools have some hard throwers I have seen (Seaton, Eovaldi, etc.). Our state turns them out & always will. Wish him the best, but always take those #s with a grain of salt. Always!

[bwdlionfan]

I'm going to throw some mathematics in here. For all you who say that you can tell the difference in 94 and 89 with the naked eye, please take a look at this. 94 miles per hour is roughly 137.87 feet per second. 89 miles per hour is roughly 130.5 feet per second. I'm not sure of the distance from the pitchers mound to home plate, but looking online I found it is 60 feet 6 inches, I'm not sure what league that was for, so I just went with 60 feet for ease. Using this math and assuming a constant velocity of the ball (disallowing the calculation of acceleration), a 94 mph ball would take .4352 seconds to reach homeplate where a 89 mph ball would take .4597 seconds. That's a mere difference of .0245 seconds. Now, I'm not saying that some of you can't tell that small of a difference with your eyes, but wouldn't that be the same as if I told you that some kid was clocked running a 40 at either 4.45 or 4.475 and you had to tell me which time was correct by simply watching... could you do it?

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
I'm going to throw some mathematics in here. For all you who say that you can tell the difference in 94 and 89 with the naked eye, please take a look at this. 94 miles per hour is roughly 137.87 feet per second. 89 miles per hour is roughly 130.5 feet per second. I'm not sure of the distance from the pitchers mound to home plate, but looking online I found it is 60 feet 6 inches, I'm not sure what league that was for, so I just went with 60 feet for ease. Using this math and assuming a constant velocity of the ball (disallowing the calculation of acceleration), a 94 mph ball would take .4352 seconds to reach homeplate where a 89 mph ball would take .4597 seconds. That's a mere difference of .0245 seconds. Now, I'm not saying that some of you can't tell that small of a difference with your eyes, but wouldn't that be the same as if I told you that some kid was clocked running a 40 at either 4.45 or 4.475 and you had to tell me which time was correct by simply watching... could you do it? I could not tell you the difference between forty times, but I can tell the difference between 89 and 94. By the way, your numbers will be skewed due to the fact that a pitcher only starts at 60 foot 6 inches from the tip at the back of home plate. He will release the ball at closer to 53 feet from home plate. Therefore the numbers change to roughly .37 seconds for 94 and .41 for 89mph. Really, those 5 little mph make a rather large difference. It is really pretty easy to differentiate between the two.

[lakers]

Geez u guys r analyzing everything. As a hitter you see it and react. you know as soon as it is released weather you r gonna be swingin or not. Trust me I just graduated and saw a lot of strong pitching. As a hitter 5 mph doesnt make that big of a difference, either way you have to be quick to react...

[eagles_victory]

There is a huge difference just watch a major league game. You dont see a guy blowing the ball by people throwing 93 mph. But if a guy comes out throwing 98 he can blow it right by guys.

[Panther One]

As a former college catcher, let me emphasize that 5 mph on your fastball makes a HUGE difference, especially between an 89 and a 94 mph fastball, and there is definitely a discernable difference that can be seen. It's easiest to tell if you're trying to catch it or hit it, but also not too difficult to see from the dugout or bleachers. If you're not accustomed to seeing those speeds regularly, then it probably would be hard to tell a difference, as both would seem pretty fast to you. In college, you see a lot of upper 80's, so it's pretty easy to notice 94 when you run across it.

Also, the above example using 40-times is flawed. The issue at hand is determining a difference in velocity...not time. As calculated, there is a difference of 7.34 ft/s between an 89 and 94 mph pitch. In the given 40-times (4.45, 4.475), there is a difference in velocity of 0.15 ft/s. No human can see that with the naked eye at regular speed. If you instead use the difference in velocity of the pitches (7.34 ft/s) and apply it to 40-times, you would be comparing a 4.45 with a 6.11, and I'm pretty sure most people will notice that difference in speed.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
As a former college catcher, let me emphasize that 5 mph on your fastball makes a HUGE difference, especially between an 89 and a 94 mph fastball, and there is definitely a discernable difference that can be seen. It's easiest to tell if you're trying to catch it or hit it, but also not too difficult to see from the dugout or bleachers. If you're not accustomed to seeing those speeds regularly, then it probably would be hard to tell a difference, as both would seem pretty fast to you. In college, you see a lot of upper 80's, so it's pretty easy to notice 94 when you run across it.

Also, the above example using 40-times is flawed. The issue at hand is determining a difference in velocity...not time. As calculated, there is a difference of 7.34 ft/s between an 89 and 94 mph pitch. In the given 40-times (4.45, 4.475), there is a difference in velocity of 0.15 ft/s. No human can see that with the naked eye at regular speed. If you instead use the difference in velocity of the pitches (7.34 ft/s) and apply it to 40-times, you would be comparing a 4.45 with a 6.11, and I'm pretty sure most people will notice that difference in speed.

Thank you Panther One, & very much agreed. Anyone who has played the game at a high level or knows his stuff will corroborate this explanation. The difference b/t 89 & 94 is HUGE for a hitter and/or catcher. And the guy above stating that "no one" would be able to tell the difference didn't even know that the mound is 60'6" from home plate?? Had to look it up?? Little League is 46' sir, then you move to the big field! There are leagues that split the difference after LL to ease the adjustment. But seriously, the umpiring test did not have this on it? Wow.

As for the calculations, that speaks to my point: the difference b/t 89 & 94 mph is about 2-3 ft. on your fastball. That is significant when considering reaction time, recognizing the pitch & location, deciding to swing or not, etc.

I don't want to argue, but I am confident in my knowledge on this subject. Believe what you want. Once you get over 90 mph everything changes - & you know it as a catcher or umpire or face it as a hitter. Going from 80 to 85 is no big deal; jump from 88 to 93 (just examples) & you darn sure know it. Jump from low 90s to upper 90s & that guy is special & should make lots of $$. It's that simple.

"As a hitter 5 mph doesn't make that big of a difference, either way you have to be quick to react..." --Lakers

Depends on what the starting velocity is. Ask any college or pro player (now or former) the difference in upper 80s & low to mid 90s & he will tell you it is a big jump. Upper 80s guys are a dime a dozen, you see them daily. 90 is the threshold where it all starts to change. Former big league catcher Alan Ashby likes to talk about catching low 90s guys & no big deal if you're used to it. Now, when Nolan Ryan or JR Richard was on the mound throwing upper 90s heat, you better strap it on. Different class right there. The ball looks like it explodes at it gets to home plate at that speed. Same thing for me (albeit on a different level) when I batted against or caught my nephew as he got older (& I was 15 years removed from college baseball); once he started getting into low 90s it's time to get serious again. Play time was over & he was younger & practicing everyday! Fun but he got the best of me more times than not. You start cheating to get to the fastball & then he breaks off a filthy curveball. Game of reps & timing.

But again, velocity is only one component to pitching. Velocity allows you to get away with more mistakes, but does not guarantee success (see Kyle Farnsworth). You better have good command & offspeed stuff as you advance up the chain because ALL good hitters can hit a luke warm fastball. Great hitters can catch up to the big-time heat too. You better have more in your bag (look at Roy Oswalt lately relying on 90-94 mph fastballs only because he hasn't found his curveball: getting ripped for 21 hits in 2 games; look at Brad Lidge & his struggles when he could not throw a slider for a strike, & he throws a mid to upper 90s fastball). In hs & somewhat in college you can get away with it, but not in the pros. Those guys are simply too good if allowed to sit dead-red fastball & zone in with no fear of other pitches.

[bwdlionfan]

Originally posted by g$$
Thank you Panther One, & very much agreed. Anyone who has played the game at a high level or knows his stuff will corroborate this explanation. The difference b/t 89 & 94 is HUGE for a hitter and/or catcher. And the guy above stating that "no one" would be able to tell the difference didn't even know that the mound is 60'6" from home plate?? Had to look it up?? Little League is 46' sir, then you move to the big field! There are leagues that split the difference after LL to ease the adjustment. But seriously, the umpiring test did not have this on it? Wow.

As for the calculations, that speaks to my point: the difference b/t 89 & 94 mph is about 2-3 ft. on your fastball. That is significant when considering reaction time, recognizing the pitch & location, deciding to swing or not, etc.

I don't want to argue, but I am confident in my knowledge on this subject. Believe what you want. Once you get over 90 mph everything changes - & you know it as a catcher or umpire or face it as a hitter. Going from 80 to 85 is no big deal; jump from 88 to 93 (just examples) & you darn sure know it. Jump from low 90s to upper 90s & that guy is special & should make lots of $$. It's that simple.

"As a hitter 5 mph doesn't make that big of a difference, either way you have to be quick to react..." --Lakers

Depends on what the starting velocity is. Ask any college or pro player (now or former) the difference in upper 80s & low to mid 90s & he will tell you it is a big jump. Upper 80s guys are a dime a dozen, you see them daily. 90 is the threshold where it all starts to change. Former big league catcher Alan Ashby likes to talk about catching low 90s guys & no big deal if you're used to it. Now, when Nolan Ryan or JR Richard was on the mound throwing upper 90s heat, you better strap it on. Different class right there. The ball looks like it explodes at it gets to home plate at that speed. Same thing for me (albeit on a different level) when I batted against or caught my nephew as he got older (& I was 15 years removed from college baseball); once he started getting into low 90s it's time to get serious again. Play time was over & he was younger & practicing everyday! Fun but he got the best of me more times than not. You start cheating to get to the fastball & then he breaks off a filthy curveball. Game of reps & timing.

But again, velocity is only one component to pitching. Velocity allows you to get away with more mistakes, but does not guarantee success (see Kyle Farnsworth). You better have good command & offspeed stuff as you advance up the chain because ALL good hitters can hit a luke warm fastball. Great hitters can catch up to the big-time heat too. You better have more in your bag (look at Roy Oswalt lately relying on 90-94 mph fastballs only because he hasn't found his curveball: getting ripped for 21 hits in 2 games; look at Brad Lidge & his struggles when he could not throw a slider for a strike, & he throws a mid to upper 90s fastball). In hs & somewhat in college you can get away with it, but not in the pros. Those guys are simply too good if allowed to sit dead-red fastball & zone in with no fear of other pitches.

g$$ read my post and see where I said I'm an ump, then copy and paste it to me. I apologize for stating that I had to look up the distance before I did that calculation, I'm not a huge baseball fan otherwise I'd be on a baseball forum and not a football forum. Bwd80 is the ump and he never posted he didn't know how far the pitcher's mound is from home plate, I'm 99.9% sure he knows this. So check to see who you're reading from before you post that. I never said you can't tell the difference, I posted some mathematics and asked if you can tell. Thanks to all those other than g$$ who made intelligent posts.

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
g$$ read my post and see where I said I'm an ump, then copy and paste it to me. I apologize for stating that I had to look up the distance before I did that calculation, I'm not a huge baseball fan otherwise I'd be on a baseball forum and not a football forum. Bwd80 is the ump and he never posted he didn't know how far the pitcher's mound is from home plate, I'm 99.9% sure he knows this. So check to see who you're reading from before you post that. I never said you can't tell the difference, I posted some mathematics and asked if you can tell. Thanks to all those other than g$$ who made intelligent posts.

bwdlionfan--

Don't let G$$ get to you. If you will notice, this thread is about a kid from Brownwood. But, as it goes along, all of a sudden it becomes a thread for G$$ to EDUCATE us all on the fine points of pitching. He also will continue to give you his resume and if you don't agree with him he will become frustrated and crank his dialogue up a notch. Just let it go and enjoy watching Shelby and reallize that G$$ knows more than anyone because he did play some "JUCO" ball. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[skyking]

Hey, this is about a great kid, that is doing a great job. We're looking forward to #4, but if it doesn't happen that is O.K. too. 89? 94? Players have a very, very hard time hitting off him, and they always have, even when he was much younger!
Go, Shelby! Congratulations!

Go Brownwood!!!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by nobogey72
bwdlionfan--

Don't let G$$ get to you. If you will notice, this thread is about a kid from Brownwood. But, as it goes along, all of a sudden it becomes a thread for G$$ to EDUCATE us all on the fine points of pitching. He also will continue to give you his resume and if you don't agree with him he will become frustrated and crank his dialogue up a notch. Just let it go and enjoy watching Shelby and reallize that G$$ knows more than anyone because he did play some "JUCO" ball. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I don't know about now, but g$$ was a scout, so he might know a thing or eleven. ;)





Regardless of how fast he pitches, 3 no-hitters in a row is pretty sweet! :clap:

[BwdLion_80]

Originally posted by g$$
And the guy above stating that "no one" would be able to tell the difference didn't even know that the mound is 60'6" from home plate?? Had to look it up?? Little League is 46' sir, then you move to the big field! There are leagues that split the difference after LL to ease the adjustment. But seriously, the umpiring test did not have this on it? Wow.



Oh my, how confused some people can get!! I promise you I know just how far the pitching rubber is from home plate. As far as if it is on the umpiring test or not, I don't think it is! As a matter of fact, when I get to a field, and I have been to a lot of different fields across Texas, I have never gone out and measured anything! That is the groundskeeper, coach or someone else's responsibility, not the umps. The game, most likely, will be played with the field the way it is. As an ump, I have seen a lot of pitching in the upper 80's and low 90's, and from my point of view, there is not much difference. I see the release of the ball and see where it crosses the plate. I don't think that I have ever said that it did not make a difference to a batter, I just stated that I did not think that the human eye could tell the difference of that 5 mph. I still believe in what I said!

Before you go off an a someone, you should at least make sure that you are going off on the right person for the right thing.

[Mustangpride09]

Best player ive ever played against or even seen.

[BEAST]

Nice article in Sundays edition of the Abilene Reporter News. Says he is consistantly throwning around 94mph in the early innings and in the upper 80s to 90mph in the late innings. However, I am sure the radar gun is wrong. All these guys must be correct.


BEAST

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by BEAST
Nice article in Sundays edition of the Abilene Reporter News. Says he is consistantly throwning around 94mph in the early innings and in the upper 80s to 90mph in the late innings. However, I am sure the radar gun is wrong. All these guys must be correct.


BEAST
You should read the ARN more! How much you wanna bet that they took the info from the article I posted and treated it as fact?? If it's in the paper (and esp the ARN) then it MUST be true.

[g$$]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
g$$ read my post and see where I said I'm an ump, then copy and paste it to me. I apologize for stating that I had to look up the distance before I did that calculation, I'm not a huge baseball fan otherwise I'd be on a baseball forum and not a football forum. Bwd80 is the ump...

Sorry, I confused my "bwd" posters. Point is the same - you should know that distance if you are disputing baseball absolutes. I stand by everything I said. Believe whatever you want, but anyone who knows the game will dispute what you said all day long. There is a huge difference between 89 & 94 mph. Not even close.

[g$$]

Originally posted by nobogey72
bwdlionfan--

Don't let G$$ get to you. If you will notice, this thread is about a kid from Brownwood. But, as it goes along, all of a sudden it becomes a thread for G$$ to EDUCATE us all on the fine points of pitching. He also will continue to give you his resume and if you don't agree with him he will become frustrated and crank his dialogue up a notch. Just let it go and enjoy watching Shelby and reallize that G$$ knows more than anyone because he did play some "JUCO" ball. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Keep carrying that vendetta around Bogey, you stay classy. Par for your course. I certainly don't know it all but I am confident I know a few things, & this is one of them. I don't claim to tell you how to be a banker, so you have no right to tell me about an area I have way more experience than you. OK?

I wished the kid (Miller) well in about 3 different posts. Obviously he is talented & doing some great things. I have asked around about him to scouting friends & they like him. But they say the velocities being offered are bogus (as they are for other kids too).

There is still a huge difference between the velocities stated to ANYONE who knows ANYTHING.

[g$$]

Originally posted by BEAST
Nice article in Sundays edition of the Abilene Reporter News. Says he is consistantly throwning around 94mph in the early innings and in the upper 80s to 90mph in the late innings. However, I am sure the radar gun is wrong. All these guys must be correct.


BEAST

I hope he is - like I said I have not seen him but hope to at some point. Obviously he is a talented kid.

The point being debated here earlier was the difference b/t 89 & 94 to a batter, catcher, umpire, etc. And there is a huge difference. You can take Miller out of the equation if you wish.

As for umpires, no I don't expect you to measure the distance, but I sure hope you know it! And it appears you do. I apologized for my mistake on the "bwd" poster. No need to get personal. I asked a simple question.

I'm done w/ this subject. We have all said our piece. Believe what you want.

[BreckTxLonghorn]

3 posts in a row?

Padder..:D

[Lion]

Just to set some things straight... I know for a fact what he has been throwing. The last game he pitched against Waco Midway, he was consistantly around 88-91 and he topped out at 93. This is from 3 guns and reliable sources that were at the game. He allowed 3 hits and had 13 k's. As far as 94, I have not seen him thrown that speed but that is not saying he has not. He has been to a few college camps and has consistantly thrown 89-90. For the year he has thrown 44 innings with 11 hits and 91k's and giving up 22 walks. Not to mention he is batting over .400 with 8 hr and about 30 rbi's.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Lion
Just to set some things straight... I know for a fact what he has been throwing. The last game he pitched against Waco Midway, he was consistantly around 88-91 and he topped out at 93. This is from 3 guns and reliable sources that were at the game. He allowed 3 hits and had 13 k's. As far as 94, I have not seen him thrown that speed but that is not saying he has not. He has been to a few college camps and has consistantly thrown 89-90. For the year he has thrown 44 innings with 11 hits and 91k's and giving up 22 walks. Not to mention he is batting over .400 with 8 hr and about 30 rbi's.

thats a fairly good season lol:clap:

If he does throw this hard than Brownwood should be proud to have one of the top 5 pitchers in the state, and a for sure first round draft pickl. Heck, he is consistantly throwing harder than the start for the Astros.....AND the Cardinals last night:eek:

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
thats a fairly good season lol:clap:

If he does throw this hard than Brownwood should be proud to have one of the top 5 pitchers in the state, and a for sure first round draft pickl. Heck, he is consistantly throwing harder than the start for the Astros.....AND the Cardinals last night:eek:

UH OH !!! I think I know what's coming next.:doh:

[LionKing]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
thats a fairly good season lol:clap:

If he does throw this hard than Brownwood should be proud to have one of the top 5 pitchers in the state, and a for sure first round draft pickl. Heck, he is consistantly throwing harder than the start for the Astros.....AND the Cardinals last night:eek: That's why he's had those no-hitters.

[NastySlot]

so what was the score with midway...win or lost?

[Lion]

Brownwood won 7 -3.

[lakers]

Originally posted by Lion
Brownwood won 7 -3.
Miller hurled a complete-game three-hitter with 13 strikeouts and seven walks, while adding a pair of hits — including a two-run home run in the top of the fourth inning — and three RBIs.

I am sure you already know though ;)

[mustang04]

the kid sounds legit and i wish him well....and to all the arguing about whether you can tell a difference or not....you can....that whole "40 yard dash" analogy is horrible because you have a decently large mass, compared to a baseball, that has features that move (arms and legs) and can cause illusions...there are some guys that pump their legs and arms so fast it looks like their flying but then you line then up with another guy who might appear to be "moving" slower and he gets dusted....i've seen this alot....its easier to tell how fast a baseball is moving rather than a person running when you're trained...but also there is the illusion that occurs whenever high speeds are met...i'm sure we could all tell the difference between an object moving at 1mph opposed to 6mph.....but trying to differentiate 201mph from 206mph is a whole different story...theres alot of physics, and effects on the eyes that come into play

[hookandladder]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
thats a fairly good season lol:clap:

If he does throw this hard than Brownwood should be proud to have one of the top 5 pitchers in the state, and a for sure first round draft pickl. Heck, he is consistantly throwing harder than the start for the Astros.....AND the Cardinals last night:eek:

You stated earlier that he was not throwing nowhere near 94mph, now you think he is. Looks like someone took it up a notch since the last time you seen him, maybe some crow needs to be eaten. Just poking fun. I will say if you stand between home plate and the mound when someone is pitching you can definitely tell the difference between 89 and 94. After watching Homer Bailey for 4 years, I have a pretty good idea of the difference between 89 and 94. Homer was know on special occassions to hit 98, he could definitely bring it.

[g$$]

Originally posted by hookandladder
You stated earlier that he was not throwing nowhere near 94mph, now you think he is. Looks like someone took it up a notch since the last time you seen him, maybe some crow needs to be eaten. Just poking fun. I will say if you stand between home plate and the mound when someone is pitching you can definitely tell the difference between 89 and 94. After watching Homer Bailey for 4 years, I have a pretty good idea of the difference between 89 and 94. Homer was know on special occassions to hit 98, he could definitely bring it.

:clap: :clap:

& that's why Bailey was the 7th pick overall...

Miller kid is definitely talented & I wish him all the best. BTW, throwing high 80s-low 90s does NOT guarantee you 1st round status (more like top 25 rounds with other factors too). It does mean you will be scouted. Go back in my posts & see what I said he threw occasionally & where he sits regularly on gun.

The Astros & Cards pitchers Tuesday were both throwing 2-seam fastballs & cutters, & I was there. They very seldom threw a 4-seamer. Movement beats velocity almost every time. 2-seamers (sinker, more run & sink) generally are 3-4 mph slower than 4-seamers (straight & riding).

Avg. MLB fastball = 90-91 mph (whole staff x 30 teams)
Avg. major college fastball = 86-87 rhp / 82-83 lhp (whole staff)

...velocity is only one component to pitching, but nice to have!

[Bull19]

Originally posted by hookandladder
You stated earlier that he was not throwing nowhere near 94mph, now you think he is. Looks like someone took it up a notch since the last time you seen him, maybe some crow needs to be eaten. Just poking fun. I will say if you stand between home plate and the mound when someone is pitching you can definitely tell the difference between 89 and 94. After watching Homer Bailey for 4 years, I have a pretty good idea of the difference between 89 and 94. Homer was know on special occassions to hit 98, he could definitely bring it.

he was mid to low 90's. maybe 98 on a juiced up gun. he'll even tell you that.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Bull19
he was mid to low 90's. maybe 98 on a juiced up gun. he'll even tell you that.

I saw Homer Bailey pitch for the very good Houston Heat teams. He would sit 92-94 & bump 96-97 mph occasionally. I have heard the 98 talk too, but did not see it. Definitely special. He is back in AAA working on secondary pitches & command, gotten bigger w/ maturity too. He will be back up & stay pretty soon. Has a + curveball too.

Kyle Drabek would pitch in the low to mid 90s too & touch 96. He had elbow surgery last year & is back in High A ball w/ Philly. Power knuckle curve is out pitch. Only a matter of time for him too if healthy.

[nobogey72]

I knew it was coming.:rolleyes:

[g$$]

Originally posted by nobogey72
I knew it was coming.:rolleyes:

Me too...where is your wannabe comedian "let's try a one-liner I crave attention" talk? Works soooo well for you, maybe you should quit your day job & go on tour...call it the Abilene (Hot) Air or Bogey's BS, huh?

"Now my wife thinks I'm an idiot.............." --nobogey72

Hmmm...

I have said no less than 6 times on this thread how talented the Miller kid is & wished him the best. Is it against the law to talk baseball in general too in your warped world?

How about you heed the advice offered in the PM?

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by g$$
Me too...where is your wannabe comedian "let's try a one-liner I crave attention" talk? Works soooo well for you, maybe you should quit your day job & go on tour...call it the Abilene (Hot) Air or Bogey's BS, huh?

"Now my wife thinks I'm an idiot.............." --nobogey72

Hmmm...

I have said no less than 6 times on this thread how talented the Miller kid is & wished him the best. Is it against the law to talk baseball in general too in your warped world?

How about you heed the advice offered in the PM?

I was talking about your post a couple of days ago that you finished with "Anyway I'm done with this post. We've said our piece. Believe what you want."

I knew you'd be back, that's all.

[g$$]

Originally posted by nobogey72
I was talking about your post a couple of days ago that you finished with "Anyway I'm done with this post. We've said our piece. Believe what you want."

I knew you'd be back, that's all.

Could have sworn the subject was baseball & other pitchers mentioned too...tar & feather me now. Stalking is a weird thing Bogey.

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by g$$
Could have sworn the subject was baseball & other pitchers mentioned too...tar & feather me now. Stalking is a weird thing Bogey.

A little thin skinned don't you think? Wow.

[g$$]

Originally posted by nobogey72
A little thin skinned don't you think? Wow.

No, not at all when dealing w/ people I respect & enjoy conversation with back & forth. Heed advice from PM please...best for all.

[g$$]

For the record, Bogey & I are just fine. We don't need anymore of this back & forth. 2 grown men can talk things out!

Once & for all, best of luck to Shelby Miller. He is obviously talented & I look forward to following his career.

[nobogey72]

Who (other than B'Wood posters) can name at least 2 pro baseball players that came from Brownwood in the last 30 years?




















1) Jerry Don Gleaton - Rangers & others
2) Walt "No Neck" Williams- Phillies & others

[hookandladder]

Originally posted by Bull19
he was mid to low 90's. maybe 98 on a juiced up gun. he'll even tell you that. \

Homer's senior year in the playoffs we played Lorena in a1 game playoff, in the 7th inning Homer's last pitch was a high fastball that hit the radar gun at 98mph. I was sitting next to my old college coach who happens to be a Major League Scout (Ray Corbett) now and who also ending up signing Homer, clocked that pitch at 98mph. I am pretty sure his gun was acurate at that time.

[nobogey72]

A funny story. A guy that lives here in Abilene named Bill Gilbreath who played at ACU back in late 60's then played for the Angels and Tigers (left handed pitcher) tells this story as the truth. He was with the Angels when Nolan Ryan was a rookie, and they were playing a spring training game on some field that didn't have lights. It was getting close to dusk and Nolan was pitching and with his velocity it was getting pretty hard to see. The catcher went to the mound and told Nolan to just act like he was throwing but don't actually throw the ball. The catcher said he'd pop his mitt as if he caught it and see what would happen. So Nolan went through his normal routine, but without the ball in his hand, the catcher popped his mitt at the right time, and the umpire called strike one. He said the batter jumped out of the box and said "Come on blue, that was a foot outside!":D

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by hookandladder
You stated earlier that he was not throwing nowhere near 94mph, now you think he is. Looks like someone took it up a notch since the last time you seen him, maybe some crow needs to be eaten. Just poking fun. I will say if you stand between home plate and the mound when someone is pitching you can definitely tell the difference between 89 and 94. After watching Homer Bailey for 4 years, I have a pretty good idea of the difference between 89 and 94. Homer was know on special occassions to hit 98, he could definitely bring it.

that post had a wee bit of sarcasm in it :)

[LH810]

Originally posted by hookandladder
You stated earlier that he was not throwing nowhere near 94mph, now you think he is. Looks like someone took it up a notch since the last time you seen him, maybe some crow needs to be eaten. Just poking fun. I will say if you stand between home plate and the mound when someone is pitching you can definitely tell the difference between 89 and 94. After watching Homer Bailey for 4 years, I have a pretty good idea of the difference between 89 and 94. Homer was know on special occassions to hit 98, he could definitely bring it.

Who on this has seen him pitch. I watched him pitch in Marble Falls and Brownwood. I would say 94 is very exaggerated :thinking:

[Bull19]

Originally posted by LH810
Who on this has seen him pitch. I watched him pitch in Marble Falls and Brownwood. I would say 94 is very exaggerated :thinking:

i've seen homer throw plenty of games, and like i said ask him. he will tell you in high school he was mid-to low 90's.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Bull19
i've seen homer throw plenty of games, and like i said ask him. he will tell you in high school he was mid-to low 90's.

i think he was probably referring to Shelby Miller from Bwood, not Homer.

I got to watch Homer throw in the state tourny his senior year..he was legit.

[LH810]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
i think he was probably referring to Shelby Miller from Bwood, not Homer.

I got to watch Homer throw in the state tourny his senior year..he was legit.

Ya sorry for the mix up i thought yall were talking about that kid from b-wood

[BwdLions]

Originally posted by nobogey72
Who (other than B'Wood posters) can name at least 2 pro baseball players that came from Brownwood in the last 30 years?



1) Jerry Don Gleaton - Rangers & others
2) Walt "No Neck" Williams- Phillies & others

Hey, don't forget about Jimmy Morris (The Rookie). He graduated from Brownwood and was a WR, back-up QB and PK on our 1981 state championship football team.

[LionKing]

Yea, Dennis Quad did a pretty good job of playing Jimmy in the ''Rookie'' movie. I know the movie was about being an over 30 rookie in MLB, but would have liked to seen more of his younger day accomplishments in high school in the movie as well.

[State_In_08]

That's ridiculous. As a pitcher, I understand how hard this actually is to do. Then again, if I threw 94 I might throw a no-no or two also. ;)

[DDBooger]

hope we get to play this guy, does Brownwood have a good shot at getting to the state tourney? Reg IV rep is likely gonna be Moody, Calallen, NBCanyon or Lake Travis, maybe Hays.

[BwdLions]

I hope the Lions get to the state tourney, but who knows.

Brownwood didn't start a baseball program until the mid to late 80s. They've never been very far in the baseball playoffs before, but I'd love to see them get there.

[g$$]

Originally posted by nobogey72
A funny story. A guy that lives here in Abilene named Bill Gilbreath who played at ACU back in late 60's then played for the Angels and Tigers (left handed pitcher) tells this story as the truth. He was with the Angels when Nolan Ryan was a rookie, and they were playing a spring training game on some field that didn't have lights. It was getting close to dusk and Nolan was pitching and with his velocity it was getting pretty hard to see. The catcher went to the mound and told Nolan to just act like he was throwing but don't actually throw the ball. The catcher said he'd pop his mitt as if he caught it and see what would happen. So Nolan went through his normal routine, but without the ball in his hand, the catcher popped his mitt at the right time, and the umpire called strike one. He said the batter jumped out of the box and said "Come on blue, that was a foot outside!":D

Bill told me that same story in 1990 in Abilene. Good guy & great story. Nolan Ryan had a one of a kind arm...

[g$$]

Originally posted by hookandladder
\

Homer's senior year in the playoffs we played Lorena in a1 game playoff, in the 7th inning Homer's last pitch was a high fastball that hit the radar gun at 98mph. I was sitting next to my old college coach who happens to be a Major League Scout (Ray Corbett) now and who also ending up signing Homer, clocked that pitch at 98mph. I am pretty sure his gun was acurate at that time.

Sherman Corbett's relative right? Sherm is doing a good job at UTSA.

[Phil C]

I remember that Riflearm in Sinton (3A) and Tanner (I don't remember first game) of Gregory-Portland (4A) played a regular season game and both pitched no hitters in a great game won 1 - 0 by G-P. I think G-P got their run by a batter that walked with no outs and stole second with no out. Then I think two long sacrifies flies advanced her to third and to home. It was a great game with outstanding pitchers on both teams indeed.