socialized healthcare

[Old Tiger]

we have socialized education
we have socialized protection from fires
we have socialized mail service
we have socialized protection from criminals
so why dont we have socialized healthcare?

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Go Blue
we have socialized education
we have socialized protection from fires
we have socialized mail service
we have socialized protection from criminals
so why dont we have socialized healthcare?

Because the amount of education and the expense involved in becoming a doctor isn't really on the same plane as the other professions listed. To further inflate costs are malpractice claims - and malpractice insurance. You may get your wish with socialized healthcare - but I'll bet the quality of that care goes down substantially. Is there a model of a working socialized medicine program in the world? That's not rhetorical - I'd like to understand how they do it and see where the shortcomings may be - if any. I know people bring up Canada and how horrible there healthcare is.

[gatordaze]

I don't want my doctor complaining about being underpaid and overworked like the socializeed professions listed do. That combination kills people.

[KingRob]

Germany has social medical care. Not everything is free. You do have to pay small amounts here and there, but everyone does have medical care. I was in a German Hospital with a broken ankle, and I might've found a few minor things to complain about, but for the most part they were very professional and the ankle is as good as new. Due to ongoing wars, the Military hospital sends all of the civilians (like me) to German Hospitals. Since I'm private (which means I do not fall into the German system) I was supposed to have my own room, but the hospital was full, so I had to share a room. You can be German and have private insurance. A lot of the wealthy might choose to do this, because it will cost you some Euros. Of course there are pros and cons to social healthcare, but the feedback I get from my German friends is that it's worth it to know if you are sick, or injured, you can get cared for. No matter what.

[Gsquared]

Ask a Canadian, they love it. Government has put a socialistic or Commie spin on the thought for years so everyone tends to think badly about it. Like GoBlue says, fire, police, mail, thats all socialized.

[CenTexSports]

I don't know how you define socialized but Volunteer Fire Departments, police departments and school districts that are locally controlled are not socialized.

When the government tells you which doctor to go to and how many doctors a hospital can have and how much they will get paid, the quality of our doctors and our care will suffer.

What you have to remember is that in a perfect world everyone having everything they need and no one wanting would be a great Marxist society. But this has been proven over and over to be impractical because it is run by imperfect humans. Our current system works well (not perfectly) and unless you are willing to go whole hog (to socialism) please try to keep the faith and keep the people in office that will maintain a Judeo/Christian society with a market driven economy.


Mods: Delete this if you will but some question demand answers!

PS: I know many Canadians and they love the cost structure but they hate the long (months and months) wait and the low quality of doctors. The good ones move to the US.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Gsquared
Ask a Canadian, they love it. Government has put a socialistic or Commie spin on the thought for years so everyone tends to think badly about it. Like GoBlue says, fire, police, mail, thats all socialized.

Ask a healthy Canadian and you are correct, they do love it. But ask one that has major medical problems and you'll get a whole other story. My wife used to work for an OBGYN that moved from Canada to Abilene about 20 years ago. He can tell you horror stories about Canada's healthcare system. As long as you have minor kind of typical health issues it's a great system, but people with major medical problems and cant afford to come to the US for treatment, will often die while waiting on tests and treatments.
I'm not saying that a modified version of it wont work, but they'll need to take a long hard look at how best to correct the downside of socialized healthcare before just implementing sweeping changes. But keep in mind, the better they fix it, the more its going to cost, so just get ready folks, their fixing to get a whole lot deeper in your pockets than any of us are going to like.

[CenTexSports]

BTW, GOBlue, did you get into nursing school?

[themsu97]

not for it...
I am under the impression that it will get worse...
education has become so watered down it is unreal... lawsuits will go out of control and people will not want to be doctors and the good ones will get out and go do something else...
healthcare will get worse...

[mustang68]

Doesn't Denmark have a socialized system, to go along with their appx. 70% tax rate.

[Txbroadcaster]

Socialized healthcare is great for emergency situations..Where it struggles is planned procedures like knee surgery and such

Talk to Canadiens and the stories of waiting months and months for operations dont end. A ton of them cross over to America for those type of procedures because they can get them right away

[charlesrixey]

Socialized healthcare is horrible and horribly expensive in the long run

Who do you want in charge of your future? you?

if so, then it is not for you

if you are poor, then it is a great idea, except the utopian ideal of every one getting great treatments is exactly that--utopian

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
Socialized healthcare is horrible and horribly expensive in the long run

Who do you want in charge of your future? you?

if so, then it is not for you

if you are poor, then it is a great idea, except the utopian ideal of every one getting great treatments is exactly that--utopian We are the richest country on earth. we also have some of the lowest life expectancy and one of the highest infant mortality rates compared to those other nations. we also have more folks living below the poverty level. Its rediculous that we cant get health coverage for our people. But we will soon.;)

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
We are the richest country on earth. we also have some of the lowest life expectancy and one of the highest infant mortality rates compared to those other nations. we also have more folks living below the poverty level. Its rediculous that we cant get health coverage for our people. But we will soon.;)

And just think how fun it's going to be paying 50% or more income tax. I can hardly wait.:(

Hell, while we are at it why dont we implement socialized transportation as well? Give everyone a new car and gas money.
Then we can have socialized housing also. Everyone gets a new house and all bills are paid.
Do worry about paying for any of it. There's plenty of hard working fools out there that will just keep paying more and more taxes, so your lazy butt can just set at home and live the good life. And if you get a little sniffle, just run to the doc. After all it's free. Well except for those foolish idiots that still believe in working and paying taxes.:(

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
We are the richest country on earth. we also have some of the lowest life expectancy and one of the highest infant mortality rates compared to those other nations. we also have more folks living below the poverty level. Its rediculous that we cant get health coverage for our people. But we will soon.;)

This is the perfect point to make.

All of the talk about us having the best healthcare system in the world is misguided, IMO. I agree that having the earning potential for doctors is important for quality, but there are many things in our system that are out of control, such as pharmaceuticals.

But back to the point, for us to have the best healthcare system in the world, we are by most measures one of the most unhealthy nations of all developed nations. That's why I think our discussion is misguided. We need to focus on healthy lifesytles.

Also, I've read that a person will spend more than 60% of the total amount of healthcare money they ever spend in their life within the last 6 months of their life. What that means is that we are spending tons of money to extend folks life a matter of months, and in many cases there is very little quality of life in those last several months.

Before anyone accuses me, I'm not advocating euthenasia or something like that. I'm just saying that we really need to focus on where we spend our money and if we are spending it wisely. I know it sounds cold, but it's reality.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by STANG RED
And just think how fun it's going to be paying 50% or more income tax. I can hardly wait.:(

Hell, while we are at it why dont we implement socialized transportation as well? Give everyone a new car and gas money.
Then we can have socialized housing also. Everyone gets a new house and all bills are paid.
Do worry about paying for any of it. There's plenty of hard working fools out there that will just keep paying more and more taxes, so your lazy butt can just set at home and live the good life. And if you get a little sniffle, just run to the doc. After all it's free. Well except for those foolish idiots that still believe in working and paying taxes.:(

mischaracterizing the other side of the issue doesn't really benefit the debate...:rolleyes:

[mustang68]

Can you say MEDICARE?

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by STANG RED
And just think how fun it's going to be paying 50% or more income tax. I can hardly wait.:(

Hell, while we are at it why dont we implement socialized transportation as well? Give everyone a new car and gas money.
Then we can have socialized housing also. Everyone gets a new house and all bills are paid.
Do worry about paying for any of it. There's plenty of hard working fools out there that will just keep paying more and more taxes, so your lazy butt can just set at home and live the good life. And if you get a little sniffle, just run to the doc. After all it's free. Well except for those foolish idiots that still believe in working and paying taxes.:(
The sky is falling! The Sky is falling!!:rolleyes:

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Macarthur
mischaracterizing the other side of the issue doesn't really benefit the debate...:rolleyes:

OK fine mr. smarty pants. You tell me where and when they will draw the line? The more dependent they make the society on government, the more and more society will become dependent on the government. Evidence of it are all around us, just take look around. Where will it end?
This is not supposed to be, and was never intended to be a socialistic society, and the more and more it heads in that direction the worse it gets. Why? Because it simply does not work PERIOD. Never has and never will!!! If you take away peoples incentive to work, guess what? Their not going to work. Look at all the freeloaders in our society that we have enabled not to work. That's the problem that needs fixing, not the healthcare system!

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
The sky is falling! The Sky is falling!!:rolleyes:

Wow how original you are. What did you do? Go back and copy and paste one of my responses to your silly rantings about how we are destroying the earth? Of course you did.
Get back with me when you have something original to say. Or at least go steal something from someone else.:rolleyes:

[Txbroadcaster]

Here is what I think should be done

socialize Emergency care, Make it where everyone can recieve emergency care when needed. Does not have to be 100% free, but the costs today is IMO absurd, some of the prices a person pays for bandages and such when in the ER.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Here is what I think should be done

socialize Emergency care, Make it where everyone can recieve emergency care when needed. Does not have to be 100% free, but the costs today is IMO absurd, some of the prices a person pays for bandages and such when in the ER. What about clinical care?

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Here is what I think should be done

socialize Emergency care, Make it where everyone can recieve emergency care when needed. Does not have to be 100% free, but the costs today is IMO absurd, some of the prices a person pays for bandages and such when in the ER.

How is your proposal different than how it is right now. The people that can pay for emergency care do pay. Those that can't or won't, get treatment anyway. What's the difference?

[Phantom Stang]

We have all heard politicians and talk radio pundits talk about how bad our postal service is. as someone who sends and receives stamped letters on an almost daily basis, I know that rhetoric to be a crock of crap.

Therefore, when these same yahoos tell me of of the inefficiencies of health care in European countries, I have to consider the source.

By the way, every dime I make, is based on my personal production. That's the way it's been by my choice, for most of my adult life.

[sahen]

our gov't is pretty incompetent and cant agree on anything as is...i dont think i want them making life/death decisions about me, no thanks i'll leave that to myself, i may make the wrong decision but atleast it will be my decision....

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by nobogey72
How is your proposal different than how it is right now. The people that can pay for emergency care do pay. Those that can't or won't, get treatment anyway. What's the difference? Difference is you have a huge debt to the hospital. 25$ band aids and $70 wraps.

[BobcatBenny]

I'm OK with socialized medicine as long as nurses salaries are capped at $15000 annually and if the nurses strike, the president fires them all!

Heck we can just train nurses with the TSA employees. There really isn't much difference. Both just need to know how to wear rubber gloves. :p :eek: :p :eek:

[Black_Magic]

The world will come to an end!!! You will pay half of your money in taxes so people will have health care!!! the Communist will take over the country!!!! :rolleyes: The thing that stops is is Greed folks. Greed. its all about the $$$. They dont want to Cap costs. they want to all drive BMWs because they work in the medical industry or pharmisudical industry.....

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Difference is you have a huge debt to the hospital. 25$ band aids and $70 wraps.

I hate to be the one to try to defend hospitals, because I certainly have had issues with them in the past. But I will say this; The majority of patients many hospitals treat in their ERs are people who cant pay, so they try to make ends meet with the what they can get from who they CAN get it from. Not saying it's right, but thats why the do it.
My mother works in admissions at the ER in Sweetwater, and is constantley telling me about the freeloaders that come in out there with every little scrap, scratch, or sniffle, and they cant turn them away. The get to see a doctor and get medicines for free every time. But in most cases it is for conditions that arent even serious enough for them to be out there in the first place. Hey I have a great idea, lets make that process even easier for them in the future than it is right now. Yeah, that ought to really fix things right up. What a genius plan that is.:mad:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by nobogey72
How is your proposal different than how it is right now. The people that can pay for emergency care do pay. Those that can't or won't, get treatment anyway. What's the difference? Under your analogy your right. BUT!! If you go to the ER and they find out you have cancer your screwed. They dont administer Kemo or Radiation treatment in the ER. Gota go to a Cancer doctor to get well from that. IF you dont have Insurance your gona die for sure.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I hate to be the one to try to defend hospitals, because I certainly have had issues with them in the past. But I will say this; The majority of patients many hospitals treat in their ERs are people who cant pay, so they try to make ends meet with the what they can get from who they CAN get it from. Not saying it's right, but thats why the do it.
My mother works in admissions at the ER in Sweetwater, and is constantley telling me about the freeloaders that come in out there with every little scrap, scratch, or sniffle, and they cant turn them away. The get to see a doctor and get medicines for free every time. But in most cases it is for conditions that arent even serious enough for them to be out there in the first place. Hey I have a great idea, lets make that process even easier for them in the future than it is right now. Yeah, that ought to really fix things right up. What a genius plan that is.:mad: I know where your mother is coming from. I've seen my fair ammount of druggies come in.

[BobcatBenny]

Let's all just face the fact that the Canadian health care system only works because of the U.S. capitalistic health care system is right next door.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
Let's all just face the fact that the Canadian health care system only works because of the U.S. capitalistic health care system is right next door.

That, and their entire defense budget is about $1.29.:D

[Aesculus gilmus]

Originally posted by Gsquared
Ask a Canadian, they love it. Government has put a socialistic or Commie spin on the thought for years so everyone tends to think badly about it. Like GoBlue says, fire, police, mail, thats all socialized.

I don't think it is "government" that is putting the spin out. It's the insurance companies who benefit from the current arrangement who are doing that.

The U.S. government is of, by and for the major corporations. It's been that way for at least the last 25 years. And that will never change short of an actual revolution, which AIN'T gonna happen.

The two main things the US government has to do is to make sure there is never a military draft and also that everyone makes a smooth transition to all-digital TV next year. Gotta keep the masses tranquilized.

I propose "socialized HDTV" for every American.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
We are the richest country on earth. we also have some of the lowest life expectancy and one of the highest infant mortality rates compared to those other nations. we also have more folks living below the poverty level. Its rediculous that we cant get health coverage for our people. But we will soon.;)

we also can't afford what we have now, much less an even bigger government program

Our life expectancy is lower than japan or sweden or a couple of others because of lifestyle, not because of medical care

We have high levels of obesity and its related problems, and we have large numbers of illegal immigrants which skew poverty levels

I've seen real poverty in africa and the middle east; with the opportunities that are available to americans, the responsibility is on the people to make their living, not the governemnt

infant mortality? first of all, we have among the best in the world, and second; socialized medicine would most certainly not have a big impact on infant mortality

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
we also can't afford what we have now, much less an even bigger government program

Cause the idiot president we have has us fighting in a war we'll never win and just waisting money on it and losing our fellow americans lives in it.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Cause the idiot president we have has us fighting in a war we'll never win and just waisting money on it and losing our fellow americans lives in it. BOOM!! Look out now Your gona piss folks off now. Not me but you will some. You better stop telling things like they are. Those Hundeds of BILLIONS of dollars are well spent killing musims. dont you know... and by killing those muslims we are becoming the most loved country in the world. SO that money is well spent

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
BOOM!! Look out now Your gona piss folks off now. Not me but you will some. You better stop telling things like they are. Those Hundeds of BILLIONS of dollars are well spent killing musims. dont you know... and by killing those muslims we are becoming the most loved country in the world. SO that money is well spent
Let's just bring out the pad lock now.

Pay now or pay later.

If we don't pay now, we get socialized muslim religion later.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
Let's just bring out the pad lock now.

Pay now or pay later.

If we don't pay now, we get socialized muslim religion later.

Benny, I was waiting for the "BOMB" from you as soon as I saw the two posts above. I'm surprised at how reserved your post is. Why so nice?

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Cause the idiot president we have has us fighting in a war we'll never win and just waisting money on it and losing our fellow americans lives in it.

the war isn't the only reason we can't afford it

try two problems we already can't afford

medicare and social security

the war will end, those problems will still be there

i fought in the war; war is expensive

but it pales in comparison to the trillions of loss our government is about to face