Does Size really matter (UIL)

[charlesrixey]

I couldn't help but put that as my title
:p

If you look at the state champions in 3A in recent years, does a greater than 2:1 ratio really spell the end of small schools?

Tatum, Celina, Gilmer, Liberty Hill and many others have won state titles in recent years

Forney, Gainesville, Wylie, Everman (best example) and others obviously did quite well themselves, but when it comes to championships, i think it all evens out

Where i see the greatest discrepancy is with everyone else. Being bigger may not equal an automatic title, but it does help a little bit in your district. However, in the long run, i can't see how 3A football is impacted in a very negative way by a slightly larger (2.25:1 or 2.5:1) ratio

if it means we have 32 full districts with at least six teams, it makes all 3A football better in the end.

I had the luxury of being a 2A fan for many years, during which the ratio was low (as it has been for a long time) and we had an average of 212 teams (really just an approximation)
I wish all classes were as evenly balanced as 2A in that respect. Sure, teams moving down from 3A had an advantage (which you could easily see in the playoffs) but more teams and more balanced numbers per region will never be a bad thing

i think 225 teams in 5A and 210-220 in the other classes until 1A would work just fine.

travel matters more for districts than the size of the opponent (whether it is a 2:1 ratio or 2.5:1 or 1:2)


larger classes makes for easier scheduling and a better level of competition.

The worst idea in this case would be to make four playoff teams from a district. The only class that would work is 5A, and even then i don't like it.

MAKE THE RATIO BIGGER THAN 2:1 AND GIVE US 32 FULL DISTRICTS!


i'm done ranting-so much to say so little
if any of that made sense to you, then you probably agree with it!:p
;)

[boudreaux]

Yes size helps, but talent is the deciding factor. Sure people do win with talent and some dont, but no one wins without talent. By winning I mean on the above stated state level. Not just one or 2 years of going 1 round. Alto, Katy, Tatum, Everman, Gilmer, LE, ect have talent. Dont kid yourself by thinking otherwise. Sure they have good coaching too, but talent is the deciding factor in a lot of cases. Yes the more you have to pick from you might get more talent. But thats not always the case when there is just no talent, no matter how many kids you have.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Gilmer is not small for 3A. It's almost right in the middle. Neither was Liberty Hill during this past season if it's true they have 700+ enrollment now.

[Phil C]

The schools that have 800 or 900+ students certainly has an advantage than schools that are in the 400 -600 range.

[old warrior]

you can't use teams like Celina as an example in this arguement
Celina is a freak of nature, they would beat most 5A teams
take a look at all the other small (under 500) 3A teams and see how many are consistantly a powerhouse and how many are not.

Don't base your whole arguement around a few schools.

If you have more kids, you have more to choose from. You have a better chance of being able to have 22 starters. Making them fresher in the later part of the game and also in most cases more specialized in their position.
Size is a big advantage in 3a down to 1A more than 4A and 5A.
think of it this, 500 to 1000 is a much bigger difference in fielding a football team than 2000 to 2500, get my drift?

[c-town_balla]

well....
Cameron
Liberty Hill
Rice used to be 3a
Marlin former 3a
Kirbyville
Celina
Tatum former 3a
China Spring
Crockett
Diboll
Giddings
La Grange


these are all around 500....they really have and had trouble competing....

[SpeedOption]

Not when there are 800-900 kids in school with no talent or discipline. And you have 400-500 kids who have both. Sure its an advantage but the biggest one is talent to do something with.

Examples of not good
Austin Johnston 972
FW Diamond Hill-Jarvis 903
Gainesville 828 (recently)
Borger 837
Quinlan Ford 828
Athens 947 (has made playoffs but historically not good)
Taylor 881
Cleveland 809 (which hasnt set the world on fire)
Castroville Medina Valley 908.5

Good with lower numbers
Perryton 564
Breckenridge 460 (hot and cold)
Celina 429
Dallas Madison 548 (some good)
Glen Rose 511.5
Atlanta 568
China Spring 564 (fairly good)
Cameron Yoe 452
Crockett 475 (has had some good years)
Kirbyville 453.5 (has been ok)
Giddings 584.5

[Old Tiger]

It doesn't matter as much as one would think.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Go Blue
It doesn't matter as much as one would think.

That's just something that schools with small enrollments say!!! :D ;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
That's just something that schools with small enrollments say!!! :D ;) Yup...that's why one of the smaller schools(LH) have won back to back state championships :p

[HEMOTOXIC]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Yup...that's why one of the smaller schools(LH) have won back to back state championships :p


GO Blue, I remember that you posted this very same topic a while back and many people bashed you for it. I have to agree with you. What really matters is how the system or program is being ran at the school. Whether the school is 5A or 1A, no program will ever succeed in a program that doesn't have discipline, athletes, tradition, consistancy, etc..... Playing in 4A for so many year, Navasota was always the smallest school except for when Montgomery first moved up. We managed to compete although we were out numbered and we didn't have the facilities that the larger Conroe schools, Brenham, Willis, New Caney, Huntsville, etc had.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Note: This is a compiled list from all of those who competed in the 3a state championships.

LH was smaller than Gilmer, Pleasanton, Navasota, Carthage, and Robinson. *No school LH played in the playoffs had a smaller enrollment.

Celina was smaller than China Spring, Snyder, Pittsburg, West, Emory Rains and Glen Rose. *No school Celina played in the playoffs had a smaller enrollment

Gilmer was smaller than Roosevelt, Abilene Wylie, Mabank, and Liberty-Eylau. *Only one school Gilmer played in the playoffs was smaller than Gilmer and that was the division 1 state champions LH.

China Spring was smaller than Cuero, La Vega, and Kirbyville. *Only three schools China Spring faced had smaller enrollements in Rockdale, Westood, and the division II state champions Celina.


IMO enrollment does not matter as much as one would think and I think the need for two divisions because of enrollment is a pointless process.

[trojan37]

A lot of your smaller schools, or at least the kids at these schools, have discipline instilled in them from junior high. That's what these programs thrive on. Football is life for some of the smaller communities and that's why they turn out powerhouse programs year after year.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by old warrior

Size is a big advantage in 3a down to 1A more than 4A and 5A.
think of it this, 500 to 1000 is a much bigger difference in fielding a football team than 2000 to 2500, get my drift?
The jump from 3a to 4a is by far the biggest and hardest.

The DI 2a champ would have a fairly decent chance of beating the DII 3a champ(unless it's celina). The 3a DI champ would have no chance against Lake Travis (dII 4a winner)

[Matthew328]

Size doesn't matter as much as people think..an example for me is Everman...yes they did great in 3A...but they haven't falled off much in 4A....

If you have talent you have the talent....with D1 and D2 the enrollment discrepency doesn't matter as much anymore anyway

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Size doesn't matter as much as people think..an example for me is Everman...yes they did great in 3A...but they haven't falled off much in 4A....

If you have talent you have the talent....with D1 and D2 the enrollment discrepency doesn't matter as much anymore anyway
Yep. Forney's 2000-2003 teams would roll over and Forney team from the past 4 years.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by HEMOTOXIC
GO Blue, I remember that you posted this very same topic a while back and many people bashed you for it. I have to agree with you. What really matters is how the system or program is being ran at the school. Whether the school is 5A or 1A, no program will ever succeed in a program that doesn't have discipline, athletes, tradition, consistancy, etc..... Playing in 4A for so many year, Navasota was always the smallest school except for when Montgomery first moved up. We managed to compete although we were out numbered and we didn't have the facilities that the larger Conroe schools, Brenham, Willis, New Caney, Huntsville, etc had.

Navasota always had low numbers but the Rattlers had great staffs......and they ran great offense(split back veer) for the talent they had.

[HEMOTOXIC]

Originally posted by NastySlot
Navasota always had low numbers but the Rattlers had great staffs......and they ran great offense(split back veer) for the talent they had.


You know it is funny you mentioned the veer. Navasota fans complained alot when Navasota only ran the ball. Now that Fedora passes and runs, people are still complaining about the offense.