Justice NOT served at A&M

[Adidas410s]

There is an article on www.houstonpress.com entitled,"Rotten to the Corps: A Question of Justice at Texas A&M." Because of some of the language in the beginning of the article, I won't directly link it here. You can find the article in the "Featured Stories" box on the homepage.

It's the story of two corps members who got in a fight with another student. That student ended up with severe damage to his face and eye socket, along with permanent damage to his vision. However, the University dismissed all punishment against the two Corps members and is refusing to discuss the matter. Additionally, the city and county initially charged the corps members with a misdemeanor assault...and then shortly before trial dismissed the case "in the interest of justice."

Long and short...this has coverup written all over it. It's a long read but very thorough and very well written.

[Maroon87]

Was there a saber involved?:thinking:

In all honesty, you have to be careful about forming opinions based on what's in the Houston Press. They aren't exactly the model of unbiased reporting.

[Aesculus gilmus]

This is why it is so important to have a winning football program.

The cadets are obviously very frustrated with the Fightin' Texas Aggies' inability to get it together. So they're fightin' off the field.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, or maybe it's just sour grapes by the guy who got beaten up who is trying to bend the truth?

[CHS_CG]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, or maybe it's just sour grapes by the guy who got beaten up who is trying to bend the truth?

no point gary.. just let them talk. Its A&M and according to 85% of people, aggies are always up to something.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, or maybe it's just sour grapes by the guy who got beaten up who is trying to bend the truth?

Did you read all the comments on that article?? Sounds like lots of people saw him right after it happened and he was in bad shape according to them!!

You are there...is this story something that is talked about around campus???

The article didn't surprise me in the least, I am as jaded as I ever was and the lack of justice is just par for the course, IMO!!

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by CHS_CG
no point gary.. just let them talk. Its A&M and according to 85% of people, aggies are always up to something.

It wouldn't make any difference if it was Texas or Tech or Midland College, Talena!!

IF the article is correct, then it is pure bullcrap, no matter where it happened.

No need for any Aggie to be defensive over this one, unless you were one of the punks that did it!!

[Phil C]

Victims of society. :(

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

If the article was correct then those who committed the crimes would be persecuted. This isn't the mob we're talking about...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Did you read all the comments on that article?? Sounds like lots of people saw him right after it happened and he was in bad shape according to them!!
I didn't read any of the comments, but the picture of his face showed what kind of shape he was in.


Originally posted by Phil C
Victims of society. :(
SHOW SOME COMPASSION! :mad:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If the article was correct then those who committed the crimes would be persecuted. This isn't the mob we're talking about...
They SHOULD have been PROsecuted.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
They SHOULD have been PROsecuted.

Whoops, I knew that. :doh:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Whoops, I knew that. :doh:
:D I figured you did, but since you mentioned the mob...... ;)

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If the article was correct then those who committed the crimes would be persecuted. This isn't the mob we're talking about...

You have way more faith in the justice system than I do apparently!!!:p

[Old Tiger]

last week at a club in CS some idiots were being idiots at the club and an idiot biker cop ran in and mased in an enclosed place and pretty much cleared the club out. I got a little bit in my nose and throat. Idiots

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
last week at a club in CS some idiots were being idiots at the club and an idiot biker cop ran in and mased in an enclosed place and pretty much cleared the club out. I got a little bit in my nose and throat. Idiots

Mased or Maced??

According to Wiki, those have 2 completely different meanings!!

[Panther One]

So is it justice not served at A&M or justice not served in College Station and Brazos county? If the city and county dropped the charges, then what right does the university have to impose any form of discipline? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Mased or Maced??

According to Wiki, those have 2 completely different meanings!! whichever one is in peoples faces.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Panther One
So is it justice not served at A&M or justice not served in College Station and Brazos county? If the city and county dropped the charges, then what right does the university have to impose any form of discipline? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
If there were violations of the school's code of conduct (and initially there were) then there are appropriate penalties (ie - dismissal from corps, suspension/expulsion from school). That would not bring on a lawsuit at all.

Cheating on schoolwork can get you expelled from school...that doesn't mean the city/county has to prosecute the matter for the school to be in accordance with the law.

[jason]

..."He also served on the Ross Volunteers Firing Squad, a high honor in the Corps of Cadets.

"When I was there, that was a big deal," John says. ..."

that was written about the guys dad....


i guess i dont get the corp, they just seem to play army and make up high ranking positions, and apparently beat up other non-corp members and get a way with it....


i read the whole article - just one more reason texas a&m and bryan/college station is blah....


i bet if one of those sheep out there got assaulted, there would have been somebody goin to jail....

[Panther One]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
If there were violations of the school's code of conduct (and initially there were) then there are appropriate penalties (ie - dismissal from corps, suspension/expulsion from school). That would not bring on a lawsuit at all.

Cheating on schoolwork can get you expelled from school...that doesn't mean the city/county has to prosecute the matter for the school to be in accordance with the law.

From the article:

"In 2003, 77 cadets who were members of the Parsons Mounted Cavalry were accused of hazing and expelled from A&M. That decision was later overturned when six of the cadets sued the university, arguing that the school's disciplinary hearings violated their legal rights.

The county attorney refused to file any criminal charges against the cadets, and a district judge ordered the university to reverse its punishment, reinstate the students and pay about $350,000 in legal fees."

Also:

"Since the fight occurred at an off-campus apartment, the university didn't have an obligation to do anything."

This case never made it to trial and guilt was never placed. If the university were to punish the two corps members, there would have been a lawsuit. Because it didn't go to court, it's a he-said-he said case. Both sides fought and both accused the other of throwing the first punch. If any disciplinary actions were used against the corps members for fighting, similar actions would have to be used against the other kid, as well. The university is not entitled to place blame and punish accordingly. Had the courts ruled against the corps members, punishment probably would have been handed out, but as in the 2003 case, there were no charges, so the university had its hands tied. For the sake of public perception, they could have enforced the penalties, been sued, and had them overturned instead of dismissing it all, but without a court ruling, it's just a fight and you either punish them all, or none of them.

Cheating is entirely different, but nice try.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Panther One
From the article:

"In 2003, 77 cadets who were members of the Parsons Mounted Cavalry were accused of hazing and expelled from A&M. That decision was later overturned when six of the cadets sued the university, arguing that the school's disciplinary hearings violated their legal rights.

The county attorney refused to file any criminal charges against the cadets, and a district judge ordered the university to reverse its punishment, reinstate the students and pay about $350,000 in legal fees."

Also:

"Since the fight occurred at an off-campus apartment, the university didn't have an obligation to do anything."

This case never made it to trial and guilt was never placed. If the university were to punish the two corps members, there would have been a lawsuit. Because it didn't go to court, it's a he-said-he said case. Both sides fought and both accused the other of throwing the first punch. If any disciplinary actions were used against the corps members for fighting, similar actions would have to be used against the other kid, as well. The university is not entitled to place blame and punish accordingly. Had the courts ruled against the corps members, punishment probably would have been handed out, but as in the 2003 case, there were no charges, so the university had its hands tied. For the sake of public perception, they could have enforced the penalties, been sued, and had them overturned instead of dismissing it all, but without a court ruling, it's just a fight and you either punish them all, or none of them.

Cheating is entirely different, but nice try.
Just one more person to cover up for dear old A&M. Protect the "tradition"...regardless of how wrong/right it may be.

[raider red 2000]

who started the fight?

i didnt read the article.

did he get into it...and get more than he wnated...if so...then it was his bad....leave the ags alone...they are pathetic enough as it is :)

[Panther One]

Originally posted by jason
..."He also served on the Ross Volunteers Firing Squad, a high honor in the Corps of Cadets.

"When I was there, that was a big deal," John says. ..."

that was written about the guys dad....


i guess i dont get the corp, they just seem to play army and make up high ranking positions, and apparently beat up other non-corp members and get a way with it....


i read the whole article - just one more reason texas a&m and bryan/college station is blah....


i bet if one of those sheep out there got assaulted, there would have been somebody goin to jail....
So you believe everything you read as pure fact? You don't have to "get" the corps to understand that thousands of soldiers that have fought and died for your freedom were in the Corps at Texas A&M. You probably wouldn't "get" what goes on at our nation's military academies either, would you? You sound like the Jackass head coach at Tech who pokes fun at the corps every year as not being real soldiers. Our nation's military, however, thinks highly enough of them to commission them as officers, so that's real enough for me.

Your last statement clears up your line of reasoning, though. You obviously don't care for Texas A&M or the Bryan/College Station communities, so all of your opinions towards them will be judged accordingly.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by Panther One
You sound like the Jackass head coach at Tech who pokes fun at the corps every year as not being real soldiers. Our nation's military, however, thinks highly enough of them to commission them as officers, so that's real enough for me.



leach pokes fun bacause the ags poke fun..that is the nature of the beast....fran didnt poke fun...because he was to busy sending out emails for money ;)

btw- i think being commissioned is called rotc- lots of colleges have it....ags are not that special.

[Maroon87]

How long til this one gets locked? I have the over/under at 45 minutes.:nerd:

[Panther One]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Just one more person to cover up for dear old A&M. Protect the "tradition"...regardless of how wrong/right it may be.
Again, nice try, but nowhere did I say that what the two corps members did was right. I was only pointing out why the school had no legal ground to issue punishment and if there's a fight to be had, it's against the city of Bryan and Brazos County for dropping the charges. This isn't a case of the school protecting Corps members like the article tries to make you believe. They even point out cases in the past where the university punished corps members, only to have their decisions overturned by the courts.

Everybody in their right mind, including school officials knows where the blame should probably go in this case (assuming the facts in the article to be true), but until the legal system proves guilt, the university can't do anything.

[Panther One]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
leach pokes fun bacause the ags poke fun..that is the nature of the beast....fran didnt poke fun...because he was to busy sending out emails for money ;)

btw- i think being commissioned is called rotc- lots of colleges have it....ags are not that special.
No, Fran cracked jokes about OU...and then got his ass handed to him...but Fran is gone...FINALLY!

Actually, A&M is only one of six senior military colleges in the United States, so it's a little different than your general ROTC program...it's more like the service academies, as they must maintain the same standards. And no, I wasn't in the Corps, but I have had friends who were.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Panther One
Again, nice try, but nowhere did I say that what the two corps members did was right. I was only pointing out why the school had no legal ground to issue punishment and if there's a fight to be had, it's against the city of Bryan and Brazos County for dropping the charges. This isn't a case of the school protecting Corps members like the article tries to make you believe. They even point out cases in the past where the university punished corps members, only to have their decisions overturned by the courts.

Everybody in their right mind, including school officials knows where the blame should probably go in this case (assuming the facts in the article to be true), but until the legal system proves guilt, the university can't do anything.
Pretty much...you think it's ok for the school to have "selective memory" about prior incidents in this case. Also, the school doesn't HAVE to wait for the legal system to rule before they can do anything. And yes...they CAN do something and it NOT be overturned in the courts. The article was pointing out that local courts have overturned the school's decisions previously with regards to the corps because of a bias in favor of the corps.

Seperate from this issue is that the corps has becoming an ever increasing laughing stock at A&M. Participation continues to decline, post-graduate military participation continues to decline, and perception of the corps from students continues to worsen. The actions of corps members towards non-corps members is a large part of this change in perception as well. However, many alums that knew a different corps fail to see the current state of affairs as a problem and would rather sweep it under the proverbial rug than have one of the school's most well-known traditions create a black eye on the university.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Panther One
No, Fran cracked jokes about OU...and then got his ass handed to him...but Fran is gone...FINALLY!

Actually, A&M is only one of six senior military colleges in the United States, so it's a little different than your general ROTC program...it's more like the service academies, as they must maintain the same standards. And no, I wasn't in the Corps, but I have had friends who were.
Wait...did you really just compare the corps at A&M to the service academies??? That might be the most ridiculous thing I've read since G2 tried to claim that he's gone 24 days without any run-ins with the Dallas PD! ;) On a serious note though, the rigors of the service academy put the A&M corps to shame. Yes the corps implements SOME of the same daily physical activities...but that's where the similarities end. Having had one of my closest friends spend 4 years in literal hell at West Point (his description)...I can assure you that the A&M corps has very little in common with it. Then again..I'm sure you know perfectly well what goes on at a service academy. :rolleyes:

[HippoBaseball05]

I wonder what Byron '0.0' Hanspard has to say about the subject?

Better yet, how about what 'Mr Class' himself Gerald Meyers has to say. I mean hew sure took care of the goalpost incident fairly, right?


Get over the obsession with A&M. IF it weren't for tceh, Duracell would have gone bankrupt years ago.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by HippoBaseball05
I wonder what Byron '0.0' Hanspard has to say about the subject?

Better yet, how about what 'Mr Class' himself Gerald Meyers has to say. I mean hew sure took care of the goalpost incident fairly, right?


Get over the obsession with A&M. IF it weren't for tceh, Duracell would have gone bankrupt years ago.
Thanks for contributing nothing to the discussion.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
who started the fight?

i didnt read the article.

did he get into it...and get more than he wnated...if so...then it was his bad....leave the ags alone...they are pathetic enough as it is :)


quotes like this show your true side, which is not pretty or funny at all.

[HippoBaseball05]

Has any 'Old Army' ever seen police in full riot gear at any football game @ Kyle Field?

[Adidas410s]

How many other times has A&M just made things go away when they didn't want bad news to get out? :clap:

[HippoBaseball05]

T-shirt fan: one who wears apparel of a school that they, nor anyone in their family has ever attended. In different parts of the country they wear the gear of the currently "in" school. These folks will claim love for said team, but will change their mind when they start losing. Do not try and argue with this creature, as you will be left aggravated and will be dumber for trying.

http://www.educ.ttu.edu/images/techfans.jpg

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
How many other times has A&M just made things go away when they didn't want bad news to get out? :clap:

i dont want to cause fights or choose sides, but isnt that what anyone does now a days? Everyone, from universities, to the President of this country to lil ole us..we all try to not let bad news get out.

Let em cover up whatever they want, they still did whatever they are covering up...or not covering up. Who cares, thats TAMU's choice.

lets be glad it wasnt in Lubbock:D

[Panther One]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
How many other times has A&M just made things go away when they didn't want bad news to get out? :clap:
You speak as if this is a common occurrence, so please list all of the times to which you are referring. And if you say you can't because the news never got out, then how many times have other universities in this country done the same without news getting out?

The biggest mistake some are making is reading the article, taking it as fact, and siding with the article. It was a well written pursuasive essay attacking the school, the city of Bryan, and Brazos County. It was not an unbiased presentation of facts. It's one man's conspiracy theory told by a reporter with an agenda. I'm not defending anything that was done by the students, the school, the city, or the county. I'm trying to list reasons why said actions may have occured. If this dad is that intent on making things right and proving how currupt the A&M community is, I have to believe that our legal system has ways to do this on the state and federal level. That seems more productive than writing letters and sending pictures to A&M faculty and trying to purchase billboards in Bryan to defame those involved with the case.

[bandera7]

Honestly, if he is drunk, is he going to respond to the insults that way? And has anybody ever heard the conversation before a fight go quite like that? Sounds to me like somebody is really making that guy sound like such a good person...

[RMAC]

Originally posted by Panther One
So you believe everything you read as pure fact? You don't have to "get" the corps to understand that thousands of soldiers that have fought and died for your freedom were in the Corps at Texas A&M. You probably wouldn't "get" what goes on at our nation's military academies either, would you? You sound like the Jackass head coach at Tech who pokes fun at the corps every year as not being real soldiers. Our nation's military, however, thinks highly enough of them to commission them as officers, so that's real enough for me.

Your last statement clears up your line of reasoning, though. You obviously don't care for Texas A&M or the Bryan/College Station communities, so all of your opinions towards them will be judged accordingly.

So if ATM loses to a jackass, does that make ATM a jackass' ass? Just some food for thought. Here's an idea; where do you think the people in the legal system of Brazos county went to college? Oh, well I'll give you 2 guesses, but you're only going to need one. That's what I'm saying. More likely than not, all of the people that work for the state and counties legal department have ties to the ATM/C.S. area. You can call me stupid for thinking that and that's fine, it'll just serve as another cop-out to another point. I'm just taking the article was a story. But let's do a little bit of math here. If I'm a drunk guy wearing girl's sunglasses, and 2 Corp members walk into the apt. where I'm at, I'm not going to get up and pick a fight with them. There's 2 of them and 1 of me. 2>1. Add to that the fact that they're in military shape physically, and not only am I not going to pick a fight, I'd probably ask them if they'd like a beer out of my case. Again, I'm probably wrong because I don't think justice has been served in this case, but what do I know, I go to Tech and am not even worthy to breath the same air as Aggies.

[Panther One]

A coach's behavior and opinions have nothing to do with wins and losses and his ability to coach...

What you say about the legal system having ties to A&M is probably true for every college community. Does that mean that the legal systems in all college communities are corrupt? Is the legal system in Lubbock currupt because they have former students or people with ties to Tech working there?

And speaking of air, you're more than welcome to breath our air anytime. There aren't any feedlots around to foul it up.

[HippoBaseball05]

You can't hold the whole corps responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole military system? And if the whole military system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of T.A.M.C. in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth Texas A&M University........ Gentlemen!

[coachc45]

I'm not an aggie, I went to SFA. I just want to point out that the Houston Press is a very liberal entity with conspiracy theories abounding..... much like the Texas Free Press. Anything they print will be one sided to prove whatever their point is. Whether any of this occured in the manner written is in no way proven by this rag!

Just one question....... How many times have you heard someone who got their butt kicked ever take blame for it happening? It is never OUR fault. It is the society we live in.

[Phil C]

I'm not an Aggie either but some of you need to see the1943 movie We've Never Been Licked. It will show you a positive side of the Corp.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by RMAC
I go to Tech and am not even worthy to breath the same air as Aggies.

You got that right. :mad:

And if you come to College Station and try, I'd choke you.

Just kidding, I would probably shake your hand and offer you a large, icy beverage.

[RMAC]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You got that right. :mad:

And if you come to College Station and try, I'd choke you.

Just kidding, I would probably shake your hand and offer you a large, icy beverage.

Good man, G. Good man.

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by coachc45
I'm not an aggie, I went to SFA. I just want to point out that the Houston Press is a very liberal entity with conspiracy theories abounding..... much like the Texas Free Press. Anything they print will be one sided to prove whatever their point is. Whether any of this occured in the manner written is in no way proven by this rag!

Just one question....... How many times have you heard someone who got their butt kicked ever take blame for it happening? It is never OUR fault. It is the society we live in.

Bingo! I'm very much not an Aggie but I have to consider the source of the article. The Houston Press is a good place to read about drink specials at gentlemen's clubs and not much else. Oh...and it makes a great lining for a birdcage. The best part is it's free. :D

[OldBison75]

If anyone really thinks that things are covered up in Aggieland--go to KBTX.COM and read the headlines today. Two TAMU football players-both starters either all or part time- were indicted by the gran jury for aggravated robbery. NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT FOOTBALL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM. I am not an Aggie, Aggie fan, or even like them. Matter of fact, my two favorite teams are THE University of Texas and anybody playing A & M. However, I have lived in College Station and the area for years and have seen numerous time that Aggies have been arrested, charged and convicted of numerous crimes. Don't ever believe what the Houston Press says, they are just about as reliable as the trashy supermarket tabloids that have numerous UFO abductions as headlines.