Why do schools waste so much time on these types of things?

[Macarthur]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080108210454.j43titla&show_article=1

[Buccaneer]

I love the headlines on that site!

Los Angeles Man Dangles Baby From Balcony After Mother Breaks His Meth Pipe (Was it the man's or the baby's pipe)
01-09-2008 10:40 am

• Alabama Man Tosses His Four Children to Their Deaths From Island Bridge
01-09-2008 9:43 am

• Dog Shoots and Kills Owner(Mistook him for Michael Vick)
01-09-2008 8:49 am

• Four Kids Home Alone Call 911 When They Realize Burglars Are Coming in Back Window
01-09-2008 8:19 am

• ‘No Sex Offenders, No Illegals’: Did Bold Sign Lead to Car Fire Caught on Tape?
01-09-2008 7:44 am

[NastySlot]

maybe because it was a violation of rules?

[JasperDog94]

I don't see what the problem is.

[Macarthur]

The rule is stupid. What boys with long hair have been around for what, 30 years! It's a total waste of time and resources.

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by Macarthur
The rule is stupid. What boys with long hair have been around for what, 30 years! It's a total waste of time and resources.

the only time its a waste of time is when students dont comply to it...im sure they all had to sign a form in their handbook

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Big Papa
the only time its a waste of time is when students dont comply to it...im sure they all had to sign a form in their handbook

So you think the principals & administrators time is well spent checking guys hair to make sure it's not a 1/4" below his collar?

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Macarthur
The rule is stupid. What boys with long hair have been around for what, 30 years! It's a total waste of time and resources.


I agree and disagree with you........you must not teach. Students and parents think that these rules are made by the principal and teachers.....they are usually made policy by the school board who often listens to the community. I teach and I tell students that often these rules are put in place to keep from disrupting the learning process......because not all kids are mature enough to respect the rights of others these rules are needed.........example...and this will happen......a guy walks in with long hair and maybe even an earring.....some guy in back will usually make a comment like look at that sissy or something like that.......so what happens next long hair guy is harrassed or he fights back......now adminstrators are forced to deal with bullying or violence..............i know it is the right of that person to have long hair etc.......and if he doesn't cause problems in my class then great....but i have to deal with the smart A...that made comment and discipline him.......the overall thing it's not just having long hair will keep that student or others from learning...it will just cause problems.......believe me most teacher and myself do not like having do discipline students.....look for grooming violations and dress code violations....most of us would like to teach.

[NastySlot]

there is a bigger picture here.............there was a few years back an incident that happen in Amarillo between to groups of kids Jocks and Punks.....I beleive it was at Tascosa..........think about this...the punks were allowed to dress and wear their hair the way they wanted(which i agree they should have)....but because they dressed and looked a different way...another group harrassed them there was conflict at that school between those two groups...fights, verbal exchanges.......well these conflicts didn't end at the end of the school day or friday....a fight carried over to the weekend....where in a parking lot off campus a fight broke out...well a student drove his car into the fight and killed a kid.......now where did conflict start?.......I know it was the rights of the so called Punks to dress and look the way they did but with kids your dealing with people that don't always respect the rights of others........I think what if there had be a dress code there wouldn't have been a conflict or a fight and a kid wouldn't have been killed.........that's not how it should be....it should be everyone has right to be who they what to be and are with out harrassment.

Rule and Policy are made to prevent disruption of the learning process.

[Macarthur]

I think that's flawed logic. I understand your point, but I highly doubt a dress code policy on hair would have stopped that type of situation.

And I understand that it's not entirely the administrators "fault". There's no question that school boards across the country are filled with overzealous jackasses.

And I understand your comment about the difficulty on the teachers, but the answer is not to restrict one group's rights just so we don't have to deal with "difficulties". I refuse to believe that the kid's hair I saw on the news was a disruption to the learning process.


I think you can see how this is a dangerous precedent.

[FutureAD]

Sinton has a pretty strict dress code also...you have to be clean shaven or you get sent to the office...but its the same with the hair...if you dont follow the student handbook you get sent to the office...when i was in school i thought most of it to be stupid but it never really applied to me so o well...:rolleyes:

[NastySlot]

like i said i agree it shouldn't disrupt and his long hair wouldn't keep me from teaching.......but i tell kids all the time the rules aren't made for one group to follow but for all.

[FutureAD]

usually the biggest deal at sinton would be holes in the pants and then there was the non shaving with the guys...if you were an athlete and didnt shave and a teacher told a coach on you most likely you were running after practice that afternoon...so its pretty fair at sinton in my eyes

[Macarthur]

When I was in school we had these silly rules too.

However, we always gave our baseball coach hell because he was an incredibly hairy dude. His hair would look long even after a hair cut. And he would have a 5 o'clock shadow by noon. So he really couldn't give us too hard of a time.

I guess to me, it boils down to the older I get, the less conformist I am. Seems kinda backwards, but what can I say.

[themsu97]

why do schools waste their time on anything...

why even have rules...
tell your boss that you are going to wear what you want from now on to work...

rules build a foundation in which kids learn how to act as adults... some districts have stricter rules but so be it... they know the rules and they choose not to follow so they are choosing the consequences that go with it...
don't like the rules, move to a different school district

[Macarthur]

I figured I would get several responses like this.

The problem is with rules that really make no sense or serve a real purpose. You know, there used to be rules about stoning unruly teens and death penalty for adultry. However, I think we would all agree that those rules really are not reasonable. No one is saying there should be no rules. I just find rules regarding conformity kinda silly because they only fit what someone thinks should be a norm.

I have much more liberty over what type of job I work than a kid does with which school he must attend, so I don't like tha agument either. It's like that "this is America, if you don't like it, then get the hell out..." mentality.:rolleyes:

[themsu97]

And I also knew that you obviously do not work in education or understand laws that go on in a school...

Students do not have the same rights within a school as they do outside...

Backpacks and lockers can be searched just because... law of the land...

students have to get used to laws that are set, just because...

has nothing to do with this is America... but it is still America, and though we allow freedoms it is never fully free... you do not have the right to free speech, there are limitations... you do not have the right to bear arms... have to meet certain qualifications...

imo, your logic is flawed

[Macarthur]

Don't tell me I don't understand. Do not make that assumption.

I think the school has real issues to be concerned with these days; the length of a kid's hair, an earring or a hole in the knee of his jeans should not be one of them. Waste of time and resources.

[themsu97]

in your opinion... so move to said town, get on the board and make the changes...

make the changes...

there are a lot of tedious and trivial things that a school and its personel must contend with....

rules are rules... you can make a choice not to follow them, but be prepared the pay the consequence... the student was given a choice and he CHOSE not to so he chooses the consequences

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by themsu97
in your opinion... so move to said town, get on the board and make the changes...

make the changes...

there are a lot of tedious and trivial things that a school and its personel must contend with....

rules are rules... you can make a choice not to follow them, but be prepared the pay the consequence... the student was given a choice and he CHOSE not to so he chooses the consequences

I agree 100%!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by themsu97
in your opinion... so move to said town, get on the board and make the changes...

make the changes...

there are a lot of tedious and trivial things that a school and its personel must contend with....

rules are rules... you can make a choice not to follow them, but be prepared the pay the consequence... the student was given a choice and he CHOSE not to so he chooses the consequences Well said.:)

[Txbroadcaster]

If it is a rule, it should be followed

BUT it seems to me Mac is simply saying the rule itself is stupid..and I agree

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
If it is a rule, it should be followed

BUT it seems to me Mac is simply saying the rule itself is stupid..and I agree

It IS a stupid rule, to an extent.....

but....you give them an inch and they take a mile.

You don't have a hair length rule and everything is okay...then all the sudden someone comes to school with their long hair in a spiked out mohawk.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/61/71/23257161.jpg

Now to me, that WOULD be a distraction, especially if I was to be stabbed by it.

Then....you have to go back and make "revisions with exceptions".....which is a further waste of time and resources.

IMO...it's just easier to have a short haircut rule and be done with it!!:D :D

[LH Panther Mom]

The one thing I found ludicrous is the fact that the one kid had not cut his hair since 9th grade. NOW all of the sudden it's an issue? His hair wasn't too long his sophomore or junior years? Give me a break! A kid doesn't grow hair for over 3 years and it NOT be rule-breaking length a long time ago.


BTW- IMO, if the school has a dress code, it should be followed. But, it also should be enforced in a timely manner instead of being held over a kids' head for "walking" purposes 3 years later.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
It IS a stupid rule, to an extent.....

but....you give them an inch and they take a mile.

You don't have a hair length rule and everything is okay...then all the sudden someone comes to school with their long hair in a spiked out mohawk.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/61/71/23257161.jpg

Now to me, that WOULD be a distraction, especially if I was to be stabbed by it.

Then....you have to go back and make "revisions with exceptions".....which is a further waste of time and resources.

IMO...it's just easier to have a short haircut rule and be done with it!!:D :D


Then make women have the same hair length as the guys inside the rules

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Then make women have the same hair length as the guys inside the rules

I can see where some idiot would actually try to make a case with that argument.

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
The one thing I found ludicrous is the fact that the one kid had not cut his hair since 9th grade. NOW all of the sudden it's an issue? His hair wasn't too long his sophomore or junior years? Give me a break! A kid doesn't grow hair for over 3 years and it NOT be rule-breaking length a long time ago.


BTW- IMO, if the school has a dress code, it should be followed. But, it also should be enforced in a timely manner instead of being held over a kids' head for "walking" purposes 3 years later.


Actually, it says they can wear their hair pinned up. That's how
I read it anyway.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Actually, it says they can wear their hair pinned up. That's how
I read it anyway.
Gotcha! I had read something yesterday about it, but in reading this article, I think it's a different one. Same kids/school, but not the same article. (I should've read the whole thing. :doh: )

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Gotcha! I had read something yesterday about it, but in reading this article, I think it's a different one. Same kids/school, but not the same article. (I should've read the whole thing. :doh: )

LOL!! You did better than me. I was just going by what I read in this thread.....I didn't even read the story in the link!!!:D

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I figured I would get several responses like this.

The problem is with rules that really make no sense or serve a real purpose. You know, there used to be rules about stoning unruly teens and death penalty for adultry. However, I think we would all agree that those rules really are not reasonable. No one is saying there should be no rules. I just find rules regarding conformity kinda silly because they only fit what someone thinks should be a norm.

I have much more liberty over what type of job I work than a kid does with which school he must attend, so I don't like tha agument either. It's like that "this is America, if you don't like it, then get the hell out..." mentality.:rolleyes:


actually those probably weren't rules but punishments for breaking rules............so along time ago this teen would have been seen as unruly and stoned to death...thank God he was only going to be sent to alternative school now
...........he better withdraw before he is issued the alternative school or he'll be serving at his new school....since he was in it (alternative school) when he withdrew.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I can see where some idiot would actually try to make a case with that argument.


how is it an idiot making the case? Why is it deemed ok for women to have one length and men another?

[NastySlot]

maybe because their women?

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
how is it an idiot making the case? Why is it deemed ok for women to have one length and men another?

Because the school board said so....haven't you been reading??:doh:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
how is it an idiot making the case? Why is it deemed ok for women to have one length and men another? That goes back to the old argument of "why can't guys wear skirts". Because they shouldn't, that's why.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
That goes back to the old argument of "why can't guys wear skirts". Because they shouldn't, that's why.

Didn't we have post about that not too long ago??

Some guy (and i use that term loosely) wanted to wear a skirt to school???

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
[B]It IS a stupid rule, to an extent.....

but....you give them an inch and they take a mile.

You don't have a hair length rule and everything is okay...then all the sudden someone comes to school with their long hair in a spiked out mohawk.



I think this is a copout which leads to mindless zero tolerance type of mindset.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
how is it an idiot making the case? Why is it deemed ok for women to have one length and men another?

Agree 100%

Why can women wear long or short hair, but men have to wear short? Don't laugh; I'm being serious.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I think this is a copout which leads to mindless zero tolerance type of mindset.

I am just glad my kids were in a school where the dress code was enforced....no ifs, ands or buts about it.

The guys couldn't have their hair longer than their collar or touching the top of their ears.

If they were told they needed to get a haircut....it was normally done in the next couple of days without any bellyaching.

I had 4 boys in that school....they knew the rules and knew they didn't have a choice, so it was a non-issue!!

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Agree 100%

Why can women wear long or short hair, but men have to wear short? Don't laugh; I'm being serious.

Who is saying men HAVE to wear it short??

Are you talking about in school or in life?

[SNYDER325TIGERS]

This is all straight up CRAP!!!

Kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, people should be their selves and not go by the states retarded rules.

It don't bother me when guys have long hair, I mean it's thair choice.

The state should worry about drugs and crap like that instead of freakin hair and clothes.

You may diagree but put yourself in a students place.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SNYDER325TIGERS
This is all straight up CRAP!!!

Kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, people should be their selves and not go by the states retarded rules.

It don't bother me when guys have long hair, I mean it's thair choice.

The state should worry about drugs and crap like that instead of freakin hair and clothes.

You may diagree but put yourself in a students place.

Greenwood has that rule about the hair in the handbook....10 miles down the road, the Midland students can have their hair however they want it, can wear whatever kind of skanky clothes they wanna wear!!!

[SNYDER325TIGERS]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Greenwood has that rule about the hair in the handbook....10 miles down the road, the Midland students can have their hair however they want it, can wear whatever kind of skanky clothes they wanna wear!!!



hmm...i'd be enrolled at Midland if I lived there.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Macarthur
So you think the principals & administrators time is well spent checking guys hair to make sure it's not a 1/4" below his collar?


they sould not have to worry about checking for this problem if parents at home would take care of it for them. the parent or parents are the problem.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Who is saying men HAVE to wear it short??

Are you talking about in school or in life?

either

[NastySlot]

it's like someone mentioned on this earlier....it's the parents that are to blame..........why...because it is their responsiblity to discipline their own children and make sure they follow the rules no matter what.....rules are rules and they must be followed.....all us at sometime have disliked a rule or even not followed the rule which is alright...but if you get caught breaking the rule accept the punishment and/or consequences.

we can't just do what we want cause we don't like the rules...it's not the type of society we live in......we however are lucky enough to live in society and country where we can try to change rules through proper procedures.

[Pmoney]

ok im against these STRICT rules...have rules thats good but saying you should have to cut your hair...or for example in Snyder they get mad for holes in jeans i can understand the principle of the rule but they try sending people home for having a hole in their jeans BELOW the knee...they could wear shorts and itd be ok but having jeans w/ holes is distracting even if its at the shin?!...its stupid

[themsu97]

some are strict for reasons... complaints and such... go to a school board meeting and see all the piddally crap that some of the parents complain about... hang out with the sup for a day and hear all the stupid complaints people have...

again, I do not like driving 65 sometimes so I speed, I know that if a cop sees me and pulls me over I get a ticket because I am breaking the law... I also know that if I have had one or two beers that could be a DUI... it is a choice I make... if you knowingly break a rule you know the consequences don't whine when they are enforced

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by NastySlot
it's like someone mentioned on this earlier....it's the parents that are to blame..........why...because it is their responsiblity to discipline their own children and make sure they follow the rules no matter what.....rules are rules and they must be followed.....all us at sometime have disliked a rule or even not followed the rule which is alright...but if you get caught breaking the rule accept the punishment and/or consequences.

we can't just do what we want cause we don't like the rules...it's not the type of society we live in......we however are lucky enough to live in society and country where we can try to change rules through proper procedures.

Certainly, but anything can be taken too far.

What if you lived in communist Russia years ago? What if you lived in a Muslim country? Do you follow the rules "no matter what"?

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by themsu97
some are strict for reasons... complaints and such... go to a school board meeting and see all the piddally crap that some of the parents complain about... hang out with the sup for a day and hear all the stupid complaints people have...


No question that parents bear a part in this and can be a major pain.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Certainly, but anything can be taken too far.

What if you lived in communist Russia years ago? What if you lived in a Muslim country? Do you follow the rules "no matter what"? If you don't then you lose a finger or worse...:eek: :)

[NastySlot]

these problems arise cause we have freedom in the United States....and people feel that anytime schools or government make rules and laws we don't like our freedoms are being violated........rules and laws are usually made for all the people to follow not just a select few.............this reminds me of an arguement that I had with a guy that was upset that after a playoff game the site which was used did not allow fans to go onto the field after game..........hey it was a rule made probably for the protection of the players, coaches and officials........things get heated sometimes afterward and the last thing needed was bunch of loud mouth fans on the field.....well he replied with he wasn't a troublemaker.......and I told him I know... and the rule wasn't put in place to keep just him off the field.....we are all aware of the situation that occured after a playoff game this year with a player attacking a coach.......just think how out of control the situation could have been with fans on the field.......this just an example.........rules are usually made with a bigger picture in view....................like someone said give inch...and they will take a mile......especially teenagers.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by NastySlot
these problems arise cause we have freedom in the United States....and people feel that anytime schools or government make rules and laws we don't like our freedoms are being violated........rules and laws are usually made for all the people to follow not just a select few.............this reminds me of an arguement that I had with a guy that was upset that after a playoff game the site which was used did not allow fans to go onto the field after game..........hey it was a rule made probably for the protection of the players, coaches and officials........things get heated sometimes afterward and the last thing needed was bunch of loud mouth fans on the field.....well he replied with he wasn't a troublemaker.......and I told him I know... and the rule wasn't put in place to keep just him off the field.....we are all aware of the situation that occured after a playoff game this year with a player attacking a coach.......just think how out of control the situation could have been with fans on the field.......this just an example.........rules are usually made with a bigger picture in view....................like someone said give inch...and they will take a mile......especially teenagers.

Well, I'm a huge advocate of personal freedoms. There's no question that we need some rules to maintain society, but seriously. You are using example after example of situations in which these rules are reasonable.

I'm talking about rules that are archaic and serve no real purpose. And the mindlessness of zero-tolerance that follows this type of mindset.

Who cares if the freaking kid wears his hair long?! It is a waste of time.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Well, I'm a huge advocate of personal freedoms. There's no question that we need some rules to maintain society, but seriously. You are using example after example of situations in which these rules are reasonable.

I'm talking about rules that are archaic and serve no real purpose. And the mindlessness of zero-tolerance that follows this type of mindset.

Who cares if the freaking kid wears his hair long?! It is a waste of time.


ok i see a little ... i have no problem with long hair as long as students do what their supposed to do......and i know about zero-tolerance seen it bite the butts of people that put in practice.........rules are rules...

[Ranger Mom]

I finally read the article, Greenwood's dress code sounds almost exactly like that one!!!!

I don't know if the school would go so far as to suspend a student....ISS maybe!!

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Well, I'm a huge advocate of personal freedoms. There's no question that we need some rules to maintain society, but seriously. You are using example after example of situations in which these rules are reasonable.

I'm talking about rules that are archaic and serve no real purpose. And the mindlessness of zero-tolerance that follows this type of mindset.

Who cares if the freaking kid wears his hair long?! It is a waste of time.


I guess the community in which this school is in cares...or they wouldn't have the rule.............I keep trying to get you to understand there are bigger pictures than the one we see with just long hair......like i mentioned earlier I teach and understand why you have certain rules...usually to prevent other problems from arising......we have a dress and grooming code here just like all schools do.......but i can tell you this it is lot more laxed then the one I had when I was growing up (should be different time) and also compared to the last two districts I was at.........but even so we still have kids that try to push the limits..............I don't want you think that I think your way of thinking is wrong and that I'm trying to change your views....far from it...........just want you see that by having certain rules within schools they will prevent other problems......School districts all over must watch out for the good of all their students and with the breakdown in values that some students come to school with..... schools at times are the last bastions of discipline....and in reality shouldn't be.
I understand where your coming from your just part of today's society......which I see as a very casual one............one in which people no longer wear ties to church and funerals or even job interviews......one where companies even have casual dress days or let employees wear jeans..............one where it's all right to wear a cap at the dinner table......and have your boxers showing......guys wearing not one earring but two.....just the times.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by NastySlot
I guess the community in which this school is in cares...or they wouldn't have the rule.............I keep trying to get you to understand there are bigger pictures than the one we see with just long hair......like i mentioned earlier I teach and understand why you have certain rules...usually to prevent other problems from arising......we have a dress and grooming code here just like all schools do.......but i can tell you this it is lot more laxed then the one I had when I was growing up (should be different time) and also compared to the last two districts I was at.........but even so we still have kids that try to push the limits..............I don't want you think that I think your way of thinking is wrong and that I'm trying to change your views....far from it...........just want you see that by having certain rules within schools they will prevent other problems......School districts all over must watch out for the good of all their students and with the breakdown in values that some students come to school with..... schools at times are the last bastions of discipline....and in reality shouldn't be.
I understand where your coming from your just part of today's society......which I see as a very casual one............one in which people no longer wear ties to church and funerals or even job interviews......one where companies even have casual dress days or let employees wear jeans..............one where it's all right to wear a cap at the dinner table......and have your boxers showing......guys wearing not one earring but two.....just the times.

Again, I'm know rules have a place, but I think it's so 1950's thinking that keeping all the boys hair short will prevent a lot of other chicanery.

I don't envy the position teachers are in...oh, and I am wearing a tie at work right now! ;)