Overrated 4A schools when they dropped...

[kepdawg]

A look back at the last 10 years and schools that were ranked upon dropping from 4A. Granted, some schools had been 3A prior. I can only imagine how crazy things would have been had 3ADL been around back in 1998! I do not intend to imply that all of the teams mentioned were actually overrated.

2006 DCTF Top 25

17 Medina Valley 6-6 starters from 5-5 4A team

2004 DCTF Top 25

1 West Orange Stark 7-8 starters from 8-2 4A team


2002 DCTF Top 25

2 Jasper 6-4 starters from 12-2 4A team
10 Carthage 7-8 starters from 1-9 4A team
14 Borger 3-5 starters from 6-3 4A team
19 Snyder 3-5 starters from 6-4 4A team
20 Pecos 7-4 starters from 7-4 4A team


2000 DCTF Top 25

1 Everman 5-8 starters from 8-4 4A team
20 Sweetwater 2-3 starters from 6-4 4A team
23 Kaufman 8-7 starters from 4-6 4A team

1998 DCTF Top 25

2 Sweeny 4-7 starters from 9-4 4A team
3 Cleveland 8-7 starters from 8-3 4A team
7 Alvarado 8-8 starters from 5-5 4A tean
9 Graham 4-6 starters from 8-5 4A team
12 Gilmer 6-4 starters from 7-3 4A team
16 Waco Connally 9-7 starters from 5-6 4A team
20 Taylor 4-5 starters from 5-5 4A team
23 Mabank 6-6 starters from 6-4 4A team

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I do not intend to imply that all of the teams mentioned were actually overrated. Good save...:mad: :mad: :mad: :D

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Good save...:mad: :mad: :mad: :D

The 3A people, no matter how long they have been 3A or how established their program is, are very sensitive and don't take too well to the suggestion that a school could drop down or even move up and be successful. With realignment coming up we can look forward to another round of fun as some big name 4A schools potentially drop down. Some of the schools listed were indeed overrated while some were not. Some people's expectations of certain schools were simply too high. Of course there will always be people that prasie a school other than their own and leave that school to deal with the ramifications of that praise. The 2002 realignment was the first for 3ADL so Jasper was in the cross hairs. I for one do not believe Jasper was overrated. Back to back semifinals appearances followed by a state runner up seems pretty good to me. It all provides for more excitement and fun on 3ADL!

[Jack_Daniels]

Most of the teams you mentioned were at best average 4A teams. This would make them good 3A teams, not world beaters. Its not like HP dropped. I do think if Brownwood drops they will make more of an impact than most of the teams mentioned above. Thsy have a tradition and a history of doing well. As did some of the teams mentioned. But rest assured whatever happens in 3A with the next realignment 1. There will be districts of 6-8 and 2. Get ready to travel 3. and people are gonna gripe a lot about that.

[Matthew328]

Average 4A teams tend to be good 3A teams...good 4A teams are very good or great 3A teams....Everman and Jasper are good examples and I think Brownwood will be another example

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Average 4A teams tend to be good 3A teams...good 4A teams are very good or great 3A teams....Everman and Jasper are good examples and I think Brownwood will be another example Everman more than Jasper.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Everman more than Jasper.

Well, of course since Everman won back to back championships!

[Matthew328]

What Jasper did their first few years in 3A was nothing to sneeze at

[WOS87]

First of all.... almost half of the 18 teams you have listed as "dropping down from 4A" should not be included on there because most of them were long time 3A schools who briefly moved up to 4A for anywhere from 2-8 seasons, and then dropped back down to 3A. That's not enough time for them to be considered "established" 4A programs.....

Gilmer - was only 4A from '96-'97
Connally - was only 4A from '96-'97
Mabank - was only 4A from '94-'97
Graham - was only 4A from '96-'97
Sweeny - was only 4A from '96-'97
Alvarado - was only 4A from '96-'97
Kaufman - was only 4A from '94-'99
Medina Valley - was only 4A from '98-'05

All 8 of those schools spent a lot more time in 3A than 4A prior to the years listed as dropping....



Originally posted by Matthew328
Average 4A teams tend to be good 3A teams...good 4A teams are very good or great 3A teams....Everman and Jasper are good examples and I think Brownwood will be another example

Secondly, if anything, the opposite has been true. Both Everman and Jasper were competitive programs but neither Everman, nor Jasper had tremendous success in 4A on the statewide level. Jasper never advanced past the quarterfinals in 4A in the 40+ years they played in the classification.

Everman never made it past the 3rd round during their first stint in 4A. 2007 was the very first time Everman advanced past the 3rd round in 4A.

The current 3A teams that have been extremely successful in 4A would be West Orange-Stark, Sweetwater, Tyler Chapel Hill, and Wilmer-Hutchins (closed in 2005), all having won a 4A State Title (or two) within 15 years of dropping down, and Carthage played in a 4A State Finals in the 90's. These teams haven't had near the success that either Everman or Jasper had when they dropped to 3A.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by WOS87
First of all.... almost half of the 18 teams you have listed as "dropping down from 4A" should not be included on there because most of them were long time 3A schools who briefly moved up to 4A for anywhere from 2-8 seasons, and then dropped back down to 3A. That's not enough time for them to be considered "established" 4A programs.....

Gilmer - was only 4A from '96-'97
Connally - was only 4A from '96-'97
Mabank - was only 4A from '94-'97
Graham - was only 4A from '96-'97
Sweeny - was only 4A from '96-'97
Alvarado - was only 4A from '96-'97
Kaufman - was only 4A from '94-'99
Medina Valley - was only 4A from '98-'05

All 8 of those schools spent a lot more time in 3A than 4A prior to the years listed as dropping....




Secondly, if anything, the opposite has been true. Both Everman and Jasper were competitive programs but neither Everman, nor Jasper had tremendous success in 4A on the statewide level. Jasper never advanced past the quarterfinals in 4A in the 40+ years they played in the classification.

Everman never made it past the 3rd round during their first stint in 4A. 2007 was the very first time Everman advanced past the 3rd round in 4A.

The current 3A teams that have been extremely successful in 4A would be West Orange-Stark, Sweetwater, Tyler Chapel Hill, and Wilmer-Hutchins (closed in 2005), all having won a 4A State Title (or two) within 15 years of dropping down, and Carthage played in a 4A State Finals in the 90's. These teams haven't had near the success that either Everman or Jasper had when they dropped to 3A.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned some had been 3A before.

I think you missed the point of my post though. The original post was just to stir some activity. The subsequent post was simply a commentary on past rankings of teams dropping down and the reactions on the 3ADL.

The best example would be Carthage coming in ranked at 10 coming off a 1-9 4A season.

Most people here wouldn't like that too well!

[ASUFrisbeeStud]

Does anyone have the records of the teams like WOS, Sweetwater, Snyder, and such since they dropped down?

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by ASUFrisbeeStud
Does anyone have the records of the teams like WOS, Sweetwater, Snyder, and such since they dropped down?

You can go to the homepage and look at the team histories. That's what I would have to do to come up with an answer for you.

[WOS87]

I need to update this to include the 2007 season results but this is the top programs over blocks of time going back 20 years, counting ONLY the record while playing in the 3A classification.

WO-S would now be 41-7-0 in 3A with only 5 of those losses coming at the hands of another 3A school (1 state champ, 1 state finalist, 2 quarterfinalists, and 1 region semifinalist).

If anything, what this shows is that schools moving UP from 2A (Southlake Carroll and Celina) have been a lot more successful in 3A than any school dropping DOWN from 4A.

The next set of rankings is by request and includes games played ONLY while in Class 3A, thus programs that have played in 3A all 20 seasons over the past 20 years will rank highly. To be fair, I've also included highest winning percentages of ONLY games played while in 3A which is highly skewed towards teams that spent just a few seasons in 3A (Southlake Carroll got that unreal win-loss total and winning percentage in just 8 seasons!)

http://members.aol.com/cboehme/thsf/real3a2006.gif

[DeeStroyer71]

I think Brownwood will make 3A very interesting next season if they drop. I'm just wondering which district they will end up in.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by DeeStroyer71
I think Brownwood will make 3A very interesting next season if they drop. I'm just wondering which district they will end up in.

8-3A

Celina
Brownwood
Argyle
Decatur
Stephenville
Graham
Lake Worth
Pilot Point

:p

[BwdLion_80]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
8-3A

Celina
Brownwood
Argyle
Decatur
Stephenville
Graham
Lake Worth
Pilot Point

:p

WOW!!!!! Talk about travel! Dr. B with the UIL said that there would be a lot of complaints about the travel issues, but this would be way out there!:D

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
8-3A

Celina
Brownwood
Argyle
Decatur
Stephenville
Graham
Lake Worth
Pilot Point

:p

Well at least no one could accuse Celina of playing a weak schedule anymore! WOW!!!!:eek: