Back to the 5A vs. 3A subject...

[big daddy russ]

I firmly believe this year's Liberty Hill squad could compete with a few elite 5A's.

I went on record as saying that there are certain 3A's who could do it, but they're few and far between. Looking at the way LH ran through these playoffs, there's no question in my mind that they could hang with the big boys, including a school like Abilene, and even beat a few of the 5A playoff teams.

Sure, the big boys of 5A may start to pull away in the fourth, but it wouldn't be a blowout like I thought it might.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I firmly believe this year's Liberty Hill squad could compete with a few elite 5A's.

I went on record as saying that there are certain 3A's who could do it, but they're few and far between. Looking at the way LH ran through these playoffs, there's no question in my mind that they could hang with the big boys, including a school like Abilene, and even beat a few of the 5A playoff teams.

Sure, the big boys of 5A may start to pull away in the fourth, but it wouldn't be a blowout like I thought it might.

How about Celina? They have been destroying teams all season long too.

[Txbroadcaster]

Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close

I agree, after watching Katy on Saturday, their 2nd team would be hard to beat by any 3A team.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close
I can't get on board with the "not even close" argument because I don't buy into the "5A's are light years better than the elite 3A's simply because of the numbers" argument. I've always thought that there were a few 3A's that could keep pace with most 5A's because of the ability of their starters (or in this case, the system).

Even though I've never seen an actual game between a 3A and a 5A, I've seen scrimmages in which a 3A soundly beat a decent (playoff-bound) 5A. Oh, and one of those 3A teams didn't make the playoffs.

Now I know that's a weak argument because Corpus 2A through 4A ball is typically fairly strong while 5A isn't, but it's a good starting point. I also know a scrimmage is different from an entire game, but I have no doubt that there are tons of 3A's whose starters can line up against a 5A and beat them man-for-man up and down the field. I've seen it done more than once. Where they run into problems is when a few of those players are going both ways and start to tire or when their relief isn't up to snuff and they suffer because of depth.

I saw Everman, Sinton, and Forney, and a host of other thought that those three teams could've competed against most big schools and not get blown out of the water. The speed of those games honestly wasn't a whole lot different than a 5A game.

Oh, and to define "competitive," I'm not saying they would win. As I said in my first post, I think they could hold on to a pretty close ball game (and by close, yes, I'm talking single digits) for most of three quarters. And no, I never saw LH play this year, but when a team is that dominant over the course of a season, I just automatically assume they could hang with the big boys. Usually, I wouldn't go out on that far of a limb without seeing a team, but I feel pretty confident that I picked a short limb.

[sahen]

they'd probably beat some bad 5a teams, but all of the decent ones would beat any 3a school....other than a fluke game or something like that 3a schools dont have the same depth and talent pool as 5a schools....any playoff/better 5a team would destroy a 3a team....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by sahen
they'd probably beat some bad 5a teams, but all of the decent ones would beat any 3a school....other than a fluke game or something like that 3a schools dont have the same depth and talent pool as 5a schools....any playoff/better 5a team would destroy a 3a team....
I completely disagree with this. I've always thought that elite 3A's are without question on par with playoff-caliber 5A's. Elite 4A's are on par with the second tier of 5A's. It's when you get to the top rung where everything's different.

[sahen]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I completely disagree with this. I've always thought that elite 3A's are without question on par with playoff-caliber 5A's. It's when you get to the top rung where everything's different.

yes, i know you completely disagree w/ it...u have stated that numerous times...if you are right then we shouldnt have dvisions, if the better 3as can play w/ the better 5as then we should jsut let them all play against each other....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by sahen
yes, i know you completely disagree w/ it...u have stated that numerous times...if you are right then we shouldnt have dvisions, if the better 3as can play w/ the better 5as then we should jsut let them all play against each other....
Yeah, I've stated it three times now. And I've heard of some elite 3A schools (see Cuero) who've tried to schedule out of district games against 5A's only to be shot down. I've never heard of a 5A who'll play a 3A.

[WylieBulldog92]

Roosevelt played a 5A team and lost I think.

[sahen]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Yeah, I've stated it three times now. And I've heard of some elite 3A schools (see Cuero) who've tried to schedule out of district games against 5A's only to be shot down. I've never heard of a 5A who'll play a 3A.

y would you? you dont gain anything if you are a 5a school by doing that...if you win, you did it against lesser comepetition and it doesnt get you ready for district, if you have your fluke loss against them then your the team that lost to a 3a school and it can be deterimental to your season....just play a good 4a and that is a little more respectable....

the whole football world doesnt revolve around making 3a schools seem better or validating them...as i said before, there are a handful of elite 3as that could beat the bad 5a teams, but the playoff bound ones would beat those elite 3a schools...if they cant then the difference between 3a adn 5a isnt numbers/talent then its coaching/execution and there is no need to have differences in divisions....

[Emerson1]

They might be able to hang with a team that runs the ball, but LH could not put a defense on the field to contain Highland Park.

[shamu85]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close

Well, I don't know if they could beat Katy (actually I am sure they couldn't), but some of the 5A playoff teams, I definitely think so. I know the comparison of common opponents doesn't always predict the winner, it does give some idea of whether they are close in capabilities

Hewitt Midway 21
Round Rock 17

Giddings 28
Hewitt Midway 14

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by WylieBulldog92
Roosevelt played a 5A team and lost I think.

Roosevelt a very good 3A lost to a bad 5A....Liberty Hill could beat some bad 5A's and maybe even middle of the road 5A's but any 5A team that is decent would roll....too much depth, speed and size...

[trojan37]

Go ahead Celina, put SLC on the schedule. That should be a barn burner! HAHAHA!

[Panther One]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close
The last time this was brought up, you said that Gilmer was the only 3A school that, in your opinion, could hang with a 5A school. We just flat out dominated the Buckeyes on both sides of the ball, yet you think we couldn't get close to a good 5A school. Do you care to explain that line of reasoning? We held a team that you predicted would score 56, a team loaded with DI talent, to one offensive touchdown. If Gilmer is good enough to hang, why does LH get a "BIG NO?"

[Panther One]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Roosevelt a very good 3A lost to a bad 5A...
I don't think Roosevelt is a good example because of their style of play. They had some good athletes, and one very good athlete in particular, but they were also a very undiscplined football team whose offensive success centered around that one very good athlete. They also didn't have a great defense.


Originally posted by Matthew328
...Liberty Hill could beat some bad 5A's and maybe even middle of the road 5A's but any 5A team that is decent would roll...
I've seen several decent 5A teams play that would not "roll" Liberty Hill. If Gilmer had dominated us last night, there would probably be people saying that they could hang with decent 5A schools, as some felt that way before the game. But after we dominate Gilmer, we would still get "rolled" by decent 5A teams?


Originally posted by Matthew328
...too much depth, speed and size...
Depth wouldn't matter much. We two-platoon and also rotate our DT's during each series. We wouldn't get worn down like a team that has guys going both ways. I think last night showed that size really doesn't matter either. A Round Rock coach at the game said that Gilmer was the biggest team he had seen all year. Speed is one thing that could be a factor, but they better have legit speed and know how to use it. Most people should realize by now that the bigger, faster team doesn't always win...which is why we're once again holding the state championship trophy.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I still believe a BIG NO, not even close Agreed...I think they could maybe HANG for a Q or two..but then later in the game depth would take over and LH would get it handed to them by the likes of a Katy or a SLC or a Madison, etc.

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by Panther One
I don't think Roosevelt is a good example because of their style of play. They had some good athletes, and one very good athlete in particular, but they were also a very undiscplined football team whose offensive success centered around that one very good athlete. They also didn't have a great defense.


I've seen several decent 5A teams play that would not "roll" Liberty Hill. If Gilmer had dominated us last night, there would probably be people saying that they could hang with decent 5A schools, as some felt that way before the game. But after we dominate Gilmer, we would still get "rolled" by decent 5A teams?


Depth wouldn't matter much. We two-platoon and also rotate our DT's during each series. We wouldn't get worn down like a team that has guys going both ways. I think last night showed that size really doesn't matter either. A Round Rock coach at the game said that Gilmer was the biggest team he had seen all year. Speed is one thing that could be a factor, but they better have legit speed and know how to use it. Most people should realize by now that the bigger, faster team doesn't always win...which is why we're once again holding the state championship trophy.

I'll get tired head debating this subject but thanks for your opinion.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I firmly believe this year's Liberty Hill squad could compete with a few elite 5A's.

I went on record as saying that there are certain 3A's who could do it, but they're few and far between. Looking at the way LH ran through these playoffs, there's no question in my mind that they could hang with the big boys, including a school like Abilene, and even beat a few of the 5A playoff teams.

Sure, the big boys of 5A may start to pull away in the fourth, but it wouldn't be a blowout like I thought it might.

Watching the big boys play last night further reinforced for me how ugly it would be for the top 3A teams against the top 5A teams. There isn't a team in Class 3A that could play within 50 of either Trinity or Plano. Way too much depth and way too much size. I saw a TIGHT END last night for Trinity that was 6'7" 290lbs and a defensive lineman that went 6'6" 340 that could move like a guy around 275lbs. I can't even imagine what it'd be like if any of them had to line up against Katy.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Panther One
The last time this was brought up, you said that Gilmer was the only 3A school that, in your opinion, could hang with a 5A school. We just flat out dominated the Buckeyes on both sides of the ball, yet you think we couldn't get close to a good 5A school. Do you care to explain that line of reasoning? We held a team that you predicted would score 56, a team loaded with DI talent, to one offensive touchdown. If Gilmer is good enough to hang, why does LH get a "BIG NO?"

When I said hang I meant instead of getting beat 56-0 Gilmer would get beat by a great 5A team 56-21

So i wll give u..LH could get beat 56-21 bu a top 3 5A team

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by JR2004
Watching the big boys play last night further reinforced for me how ugly it would be for the top 3A teams against the top 5A teams. There isn't a team in Class 3A that could play within 50 of either Trinity or Plano. Way too much depth and way too much size. I saw a TIGHT END last night for Trinity that was 6'7" 290lbs and a defensive lineman that went 6'6" 340 that could move like a guy around 275lbs. I can't even imagine what it'd be like if any of them had to line up against Katy.

I think the DL is like 6'8 360..LOL

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Matthew328
I think the DL is like 6'8 360..LOL

He sure is. I didn't think anyone here would've believed me if I had said he was that big...lol.

[Hupernikomen]

I have seen Northshore, SLC and Katy teams that would beat any 3A team around 40+. 3A is what it is don't try to compare apple to oranges. There is a reason Jasper doesn't put Lufkin on the schedule anymore. There are certainly many 5A teams that the best 3A teams could whoop up on, but the best 5A teams are far superior to 3A.

[Rabbit'93]

Elite 3A schools cannot compete or even "hang" with elite 5A schools.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
Elite 3A schools cannot compete or even "hang" with elite 5A schools.

agreed

[TexanFan4Life]

Katy could beat Liberty Hill at Noon, then turn around and beat Celina at 4. No contest in either.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Katy could beat Liberty Hill at Noon, then turn around and beat Celina at 4. No contest in either.

:clap: :clap:

[pirate4state]

I'll get to watch all these teams this weekend. I'll report back Sunday! :nerd: :D HAHAHAHA

[SNYDER325TIGERS]

You have to be realistic on this.

Yes, Liberty Hill is BA...but they couldn't beat Southlake, Katy, Abilene, Trinity, Permian, Plano, Converse Judson, and probally a few more.

I'm not disrespecting LH though, by any means.

[j_dog]

Originally posted by Hupernikomen
I have seen Northshore, SLC and Katy teams that would beat any 3A team around 40+. 3A is what it is don't try to compare apple to oranges. There is a reason Jasper doesn't put Lufkin on the schedule anymore. There are certainly many 5A teams that the best 3A teams could whoop up on, but the best 5A teams are far superior to 3A.
I imagine Lufkin was embarrased enough losing pretty regularly to a small 4a squad. Re-cast that same little squad as 3a and the embarrassment would grow. I would guess that Jasper would play Lufkin now a lot quicker than Lufkin would play Jasper. I remember that for a few years Lufkin dropped Jasper because it is not pretty losing to a lower division school.

Of course, Lufkin would stomp Jasper now... I think, but then that is what they used to say and Jasper kept on winning its share of the games even when Lufkin was already making the 5a playoffs. There is just no need for Lufkin to take the chance of losing to a 3a school in spite of the fact that Jasper's enrollment is not all that different than when they used to play each other.

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I'll get to watch all these teams this weekend. I'll report back Sunday! :nerd: :D HAHAHAHA

P4S you haven't seen a 5A game yet to compare but remember the difference when you watched Everman-WF Rider and earlier in the day when you saw Gilmer-Abilene Wylie....

Double that and you got an elite 5A game

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Matthew328
P4S you haven't seen a 5A game yet to compare but remember the difference when you watched Everman-WF Rider and earlier in the day when you saw Gilmer-Abilene Wylie....

Double that and you got an elite 5A game

Sweet. Yeah, going from Gilmer/Wylie to Everman-Rider was just mind blowing. :eek: :eek:

[Jack_Daniels]

LH could beat most 4A's and a lot of 5A's. They are just too good.

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by Jack_Daniels
LH could beat most 4A's and a lot of 5A's. They are just too good. :rolleyes:

[SNYDER325TIGERS]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
:rolleyes:

I agree


I mean yes they are a great football team and are very well coached, but you have to be realistic. Im sure some 4A teams could beat them, and a lot of 5A teams could.

When your in 4A and 5A there are so many more kids and it's around bigger towns and such, so you have more good atheletes and good coaches are attracted to bigger schools if they can get on with them.
I'm not trying to take anything away from Liberty Hill cause they are a great all around team. Two state titles is an amazing accomplishment, I hope they get a 3-peat.

[ToroChingon]

I have seen 1A kids nearly as big as that Trinity guy(Davis from Wortham, Weitenheimer from Windthorst). That guy is a freak of nature, a one of a kind. If you pay attention to him he takes every other play off. 3A kids dont play that way. Size wouldn't be as big an issue as you think. I have coached from 1A to 5A in playoff programs at every level, and there are some 3A teams that can play with any of them. 3A teams produce Football Players who can turn a 3:15 Mile Relay, too. The faster 5A Mile Relays usually don't have 4 Football Players on them, so the speed factor isn't that big of a difference either. For that matter, I have seen 1A teams who could play with many of them, and not give up much of a size advantage to boot. All that 'depth' you guys speak of, most of them NEVER step on the field. The 5A teams might be able to field 2 good teams from 1 squad, but they don't use half the kids. The main difference would be the quality of the players watching the game from the sideline. I always felt sorry for all those poor kids standing 4 deep on our sideline who are good enough to play, but only 11 step out there at a time. 5A causes cancer. It is horrible for 50% of its players.

Of course, I am a coach of 17 years. What do I know? You guys play Fantasy Football! You are the 'experts.' Just ask each other. LOL!

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
:rolleyes:

Wait a minute. Liberty Hill COULD beat some pretty tough 4A squads. Giddings beat a pretty tough Hewitt Midway team in non-district play this season 21-14. 5A isn't a question, though.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Wait a minute. Liberty Hill COULD beat some pretty tough 4A squads. Giddings beat a pretty tough Hewitt Midway team in non-district play this season 21-14. 5A isn't a question, though.
What do you mean by tough? LH would lose by 60 to Highland Park, and would be held to under 100 yards rushings

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by Emerson1
What do you mean by tough? LH would lose by 60 to Highland Park, and would be held to under 100 yards rushings

Let me clarify...by tough I mean 'decently average'. lol

Brenham would be in for a good game, for example.

[alaskacat]

Originally posted by trojan37
Go ahead Celina, put SLC on the schedule. That should be a barn burner! HAHAHA!


Hmmm interesting, they already beat them more than once...and not so long ago beat them 7 on 7:)

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Let me clarify...by tough I mean 'decently average'. lol

Brenham would be in for a good game, for example.
LH might be able to take Forney :)

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by j_dog
I imagine Lufkin was embarrased enough losing pretty regularly to a small 4a squad. Re-cast that same little squad as 3a and the embarrassment would grow. I would guess that Jasper would play Lufkin now a lot quicker than Lufkin would play Jasper. I remember that for a few years Lufkin dropped Jasper because it is not pretty losing to a lower division school.

Of course, Lufkin would stomp Jasper now... I think, but then that is what they used to say and Jasper kept on winning its share of the games even when Lufkin was already making the 5a playoffs. There is just no need for Lufkin to take the chance of losing to a 3a school in spite of the fact that Jasper's enrollment is not all that different than when they used to play each other.

Been a couple 3A years when Jasper could have hung around with them I think. The last couple I certainly wouldn't consider. I thought we actually scrimmaged them the 1st year we dropped to 3A but I may be wrong.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Emerson1
LH might be able to take Forney :)
Pssssshhh......you're kidding, right? The second best team in 3A? Never..... :p

[Bobcat_Mom]

Originally posted by sahen
they'd probably beat some bad 5a teams, but all of the decent ones would beat any 3a school....other than a fluke game or something like that 3a schools dont have the same depth and talent pool as 5a schools....any playoff/better 5a team would destroy a 3a team....

Awfly confident over such a huge range of situations, options, schools, talents, disciplines, etc.

I saw a 3a team this year hugely beat a top 4a (top meaning closest to 5a as you can get before being bumped up)...now I'm not saying the opposite as you are but I don't know how you could confidently and wisely state such a comment.

Just my take on it....

[Bobcat_Mom]

Originally posted by Jack_Daniels
LH could beat most 4A's and a lot of 5A's. They are just too good.


o brother, another year of this type of talk...

[Rabbit'93]

Bobcat mom...which teams are you referring?

Also Torochingon I've seen plenty of bad coaching (especially in Forney) so I'd slow down on the chest pounding. Just because you might occupy space on the sideline or in the booth doesn't make you an expert either.


Not trying to come down on you just the comments.

[Bobcat_Mom]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
Bobcat mom...which teams are you referring?

Also Torochingon I've seen plenty of bad coaching (especially in Forney) so I'd slow down on the chest pounding. Just because you might occupy space on the sideline or in the booth doesn't make you an expert either.


Not trying to come down on you just the comments.

Whose pounding on their chests? Gosh!

[Griss002]

You guys blow a lot of smoke and thinking you can stay on the field is well.....crazy! I had the pleasure of playing 2 5A schools my senior year at Breckenridge. We played Arlington Martin the first game and won 14-7. Tough game but they were a new school and we were ready for them. Two weeks later we took on WF High and they KICKED OUR B---S 44-7! We thought we had something for them and the second half they put in the first team and we never saw them again. So everyone can talk and I am sure some could stick around for a half but in the end, size, depth and shear numbers will take the game and whatever else they want at the time. If you don't believe me, check the 1983 stats for the Buckaroos and you see I am not blowing any smoke.

[lakers]

there is no way any elite team in 3a could compete with a good 5a team....

not gonna happen...

[sahen]

Originally posted by Bobcat_Mom
Awfly confident over such a huge range of situations, options, schools, talents, disciplines, etc.

I saw a 3a team this year hugely beat a top 4a (top meaning closest to 5a as you can get before being bumped up)...now I'm not saying the opposite as you are but I don't know how you could confidently and wisely state such a comment.

Just my take on it....

i guess u are right..i shouldnt just say any 5a playoff team would beat all 3a teams...i remember when only the good teams in a district made playoffs and i still think that way...i guess i should say any team that in 5a that makes the final 16 in both D1 and D2 should beat all 3a teams soundly, reguardless of situation, however you still could have that fluke game here and there...its highschool football, not pro...stuff happens....

[ToroChingon]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
Bobcat mom...which teams are you referring?

Also Torochingon I've seen plenty of bad coaching (especially in Forney) so I'd slow down on the chest pounding. Just because you might occupy space on the sideline or in the booth doesn't make you an expert either.


Not trying to come down on you just the comments.




I don't coach in Forney. I live here, and played here, and lost by 3 to the State Champs here while you were still in diapers.

[ToroChingon]

Originally posted by lakers
there is no way any elite team in 3a could compete with a good 5a team....

not gonna happen...

You've been watching too many Panhandle teams!

[ToroChingon]

Originally posted by Griss002
You guys blow a lot of smoke and thinking you can stay on the field is well.....crazy! I had the pleasure of playing 2 5A schools my senior year at Breckenridge. We played Arlington Martin the first game and won 14-7. Tough game but they were a new school and we were ready for them. Two weeks later we took on WF High and they KICKED OUR B---S 44-7! We thought we had something for them and the second half they put in the first team and we never saw them again. So everyone can talk and I am sure some could stick around for a half but in the end, size, depth and shear numbers will take the game and whatever else they want at the time. If you don't believe me, check the 1983 stats for the Buckaroos and you see I am not blowing any smoke.


Breck? Nobody suggested Breck could beat a 5A team.:evilgrin:

[gato 76]

Liberty Hill would not make the playoffs in 23AAAA or 24AAAA,they might could compete in region 4, but to see them line up against North Shore or LaMarque that would be funny to watch.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by gato 76
Liberty Hill would not make the playoffs in 23AAAA or 24AAAA,they might could compete in region 4, but to see them line up against North Shore or LaMarque that would be funny to watch.
Why not? WO-S lined up against Bay City and more than held their own each of the last few years. And as good as the Mustangs are, LH is obviously better.

[gato 76]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Why not? WO-S lined up against Bay City and more than held their own each of the last few years. And as good as the Mustangs are, LH is obviously better.

BDR, do you really believe that LH could line up against NS.LM, OR even SLC and not get blown out, come on man get real.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Emerson1
What do you mean by tough? LH would lose by 60 to Highland Park, and would be held to under 100 yards rushings

I hate to say this because I don't care for HP at all and root for every single one of their opponents, but they'd beat Liberty Hill and every single other elite 3A team by 50-60 points.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by gato 76
BDR, do you really believe that LH could line up against NS.LM, OR even SLC and not get blown out, come on man get real.
Just connecting the dots. ;)

[eagles_victory]

Any 5a team with a big stong defensive line ( Skyline, Trinity just to name a few) would handle LH easily. All they would do is blow up every play like Gilmer was able to do a few times. Plus LH doesnt have the speed across the board to matchup with these great 5a teams.

[3afan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I firmly believe this year's Liberty Hill squad could compete with a few elite 5A's.

I went on record as saying that there are certain 3A's who could do it, but they're few and far between. Looking at the way LH ran through these playoffs, there's no question in my mind that they could hang with the big boys, including a school like Abilene, and even beat a few of the 5A playoff teams.

Sure, the big boys of 5A may start to pull away in the fourth, but it wouldn't be a blowout like I thought it might.

all depends on the definitions of "compete" & "elite"

[emileq]

OK, my first post here. I am from Liberty Hill so I am biased, but here are some arguments. First, we beat a Burnet team 34 - 17 that lost by a field goal to 4A top 10 ranked Brownwood. (Brownwood later fell out of the top rankings). Second, in talking to a Burnet coach in late November he mentioned that he thought Liberty Hill would beat Lake Travis, (who beat Burnet by a similar score to what we beat them. He didn't believe LT could stop our run at all, and he thought we could get two or three stops on their pass offense. Lake Travis was picked by many including the local sportswriters to beat perennial 5A power Westlake. That didn't happen but the game was tight.

Finally, I watched Leander play Westfwood, both huge 5A schools, and was struck by two things. First, both teams played many of their first team players both ways. ( LH doesn't play anyone both ways). Second, other than a couple of Leander receivers/DBs, neither team had impressive speed. I truly believe LH would have beaten either of those teams by two touchdowns.

So, could LH beat a top 5A? Probably not, and certainly not consistently. Could we make it a game, and win periodically against good 5As? I think so.

[navscanmaster]

I think you could count the number of 4A teams Liberty Hill COULDN'T hang with on one hand and still be able to pick your nose with the finger left. 5A is a different story, but I still believe that this year's Liberty Hill squad is capable of beating over half of the 5A teams in this state. That is because half of the 5A teams make the playoffs anyhow. Some shouldn't make the playoffs, but just because they are in a weak 5A district, they are there. That said, yes, Liberty Hill could beat a 5A playoff team, and more than one of them.
If you look at a typical 5A roster, you won't always see a huge size advantage over a 3A squad. Besides, size doesn't always matter, and the Gilmer game proved that. Katy's roster doesn't exactly look like you would think it would size-wise, but the talent and discipline/coaching are overwhelmingly better than anybody else in the state.

No, LH couldn't hang with a truly elite 5A team at all. Maybe the first quarter. I know I have said otherwise in the past, but after taking time to think it over, I realize that it is not possible.

Bottom line is, it is fun to debate, but we will never see Liberty Hill, or any other 3A team, line up against the likes of SLC, Abilene, Permian, Judson, Madison, Katy, Leander, Pflugerville yada yada. Just won't happen. So therefore, we can speculate all day, but vindication for either argument is highly unlikely.

[ToroChingon]

Like I said, I live it daily, and I know what I am talking about. 5A fans think WAAAAAY too highly of themselves and their teams. Those kids know how to play 1 position, and if forced to do something else, they would not be very good at it. The same goes for most 5A coaches. One side, one position, not much else. Ego is a terrible thing, and it seems that egos get more and more inflated as you add an "A" to the size of the school.

Now, you guys who are the self-professed experts are entitled to your opinions. Of course, your plumbing, truck-driving, sales, and civil service jobs give you all the knowledge required to decide who would win what games, right?

[nobogey72]

Which ever side of this issue you are argueing, you will never convince the other side over to your way of thinking. But, I can tell you one thing for sure. I have seen several 3A and even 2A teams that have cheerleaders that could compete with any 5A cheerleaders. One 3A school I saw (through binoculars) had 4 or maybe even 5 cheerleaders that are just a couple of years away from Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, or even Victoria Secret models. So There!!!!! Go ahead, somebody argue with me. I can prove this. :cool: :cool: :cool: :inlove: :inlove:

[sahen]

Originally posted by ToroChingon
Like I said, I live it daily, and I know what I am talking about. 5A fans think WAAAAAY too highly of themselves and their teams. Those kids know how to play 1 position, and if forced to do something else, they would not be very good at it. The same goes for most 5A coaches. One side, one position, not much else. Ego is a terrible thing, and it seems that egos get more and more inflated as you add an "A" to the size of the school.

Now, you guys who are the self-professed experts are entitled to your opinions. Of course, your plumbing, truck-driving, sales, and civil service jobs give you all the knowledge required to decide who would win what games, right?

speaking of ego....:rolleyes:

[ToroChingon]

Yes? Your point is?

[3afan]

Originally posted by ToroChingon
... 5A fans think WAAAAAY too highly of themselves and their teams. ....

some, certainly not all ... and same goes for some 4A & 3A

[Old Tiger]

They all suck! Alto would dominate any team, any class, anywhere!

[RMAC]

Originally posted by ToroChingon
Like I said, I live it daily, and I know what I am talking about. 5A fans think WAAAAAY too highly of themselves and their teams. Those kids know how to play 1 position, and if forced to do something else, they would not be very good at it. The same goes for most 5A coaches. One side, one position, not much else. Ego is a terrible thing, and it seems that egos get more and more inflated as you add an "A" to the size of the school.

Now, you guys who are the self-professed experts are entitled to your opinions. Of course, your plumbing, truck-driving, sales, and civil service jobs give you all the knowledge required to decide who would win what games, right?

And nobody else knows anything about the game because they're not you right? How conceited can you really be? How about the pot calling the kettle black? What makes you any different from the self-professed experts? You might think you're smarter or that you know more, but anyone with half a brain would know that we'll never figure out who knows the most football on here, so why even bother? As far as the arguement goes, I don't think there's any 3A teams that could win in 5A. Now before you guys jump on me, read it again. Playing in 5A and winning in 5A are 2 entirely different things. You can put any team up there that you want, but the only way they make the playoffs is to get put in a west TX district where the ball is nowhere near as strong as further east and south. Sure, they'd win some games, but they wouldn't be as good as they are in 3A, not even Liberty Hill, or Celina, or anybody, ever and that's just how I feel about it.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by ToroChingon
Now, you guys who are the self-professed experts are entitled to your opinions. Of course, your plumbing, truck-driving, sales, and civil service jobs give you all the knowledge required to decide who would win what games, right?

Please oh please almighty UIL put us back in our old district in February...It was fun beating up on your school the last time around after how their prior coach acted when it came to us. Looks like it'd be even more fun this time around.

[Balcones fault]

Its a silly argument that will never be proven. LH is very good, but Celina could very possibly beat them. We won't ever know, will we?

That being said, I have seen a lot of Cedar Park Vista Ridge this year, who at 3-7 was barely beaten by Lake Travis. VR is very large 4A in enrollment perhaps even 5A in reallignment. I am sure that LH would beat them head to head and so would Celina. The small school players buy in, they have total community support, and they attract really good players that are large in heart, if small or slow for 5A. Having known kids from both size schools its my opinion that the smaller school kids are more dedicated to their programs. A 5A school with an established program and winning tradition would likely defeat the premier 3A program due to better average talent across the board. Even the best of 3A teams will have relative weaknesses that the 5A teams will exploit. IMO, FWIW. :)

[ToroChingon]

Originally posted by JR2004
Please oh please almighty UIL put us back in our old district in February...It was fun beating up on your school the last time around after how their prior coach acted when it came to us. Looks like it'd be even more fun this time around.


I don't know who this guy wants to play, but c'mon UIL, give him his wish! Sounds like he needs out of the tough district he's in so bad he's going to cry! Help the man out before he loses it.

[ToroChingon]

Originally posted by RMAC
And nobody else knows anything about the game because they're not you right? How conceited can you really be? How about the pot calling the kettle black? What makes you any different from the self-professed experts? You might think you're smarter or that you know more, but anyone with half a brain would know that we'll never figure out who knows the most football on here, so why even bother? As far as the arguement goes, I don't think there's any 3A teams that could win in 5A. Now before you guys jump on me, read it again. Playing in 5A and winning in 5A are 2 entirely different things. You can put any team up there that you want, but the only way they make the playoffs is to get put in a west TX district where the ball is nowhere near as strong as further east and south. Sure, they'd win some games, but they wouldn't be as good as they are in 3A, not even Liberty Hill, or Celina, or anybody, ever and that's just how I feel about it.

"You can put any team up there that you want, but the only way they make the playoffs is to get put in a west TX district where the ball is nowhere near as strong as further east and south."


That statement right there shows how little you actually know about the sport.

"And nobody else knows anything about the game because they're not you right?"

I never said that. You did.


I am just a coach. What are you?

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by ToroChingon
I am just a coach. What are you?

So is this guy...

http://i.ivillage.com/E/325/Marshall/E_Football_366.jpg

[Adidas410s]

My take on this debate can be summed up like this...

3A teams that can compete/beat 5A teams are the exception...not the rule.

This debate is going two directions...

Group A says, "An elite 3A team can hang with/beat a 5A team." This argument isn't saying they would beat an SLC, Katy, or Trinity...it just says they would be a 5A team. I can agree with the thought that a Top 3A could beat a 5A team such as Granbury, El Paso Americas, or FW Paschal. I think the argument can go as far as "they could compete for a playoff spot" in a district where 4 out of 6 teams go to the playoffs...and the 4th place team is getting in at 3-7. On a great day...they could even win 1 or 2 playoff games.

Group B says, "An elite 3A team could never hang with an SLC, Katy, or Trinity." Again...I don't think many people (I won't say all because some people are just ignorant) would think that LH or Gilmer could stay within 50 or a 5A powerhouse team. However, those in Group B are ignoring the argument of Group A...and instead looking for teams that it's obvious that a top 3A couldn't beat.

Many people in Abilene thought that Wylie could hang with Abilene Cooper from 2000-2004 (2002 excluded). Wylie had more size, speed, and even more depth (both in talent and in the # of kids suiting up). Those were also the years where Cooper started dropping off to a middle of the road team in their district and stopped being in the hunt for the district title. Again...this is THE EXCEPTION and NOT THE RULE!!!!

Certain situations exist where a top 3A team could compete in 5A...but they are few and far between. Besides, it will likely never happen in our lifetime...so put away the pipe dreams.

[trojan37]

Why not have the first ever 3adownlow "Let's put this crap to rest" Bowl. Your nominations for the game lineup are recommened.

1. SLC vs. Celina
2. Dallas Roosevelt vs. Dallas Carter
3. Abilene High vs. Abilene Wylie
4. Liberty Hill vs. Austin Westlake
4. Longview vs. Gilmer
5. Cuero vs. Converse Judson

[navscanmaster]

Originally posted by trojan37
Why not have the first ever 3adownlow "Let's put this crap to rest" Bowl. Your nominations for the game lineup are recommened.

1. SLC vs. Celina
2. Dallas Roosevelt vs. Dallas Carter
3. Abilene High vs. Abilene Wylie
4. Liberty Hill vs. Austin Westlake
4. Longview vs. Gilmer
5. Cuero vs. Converse Judson

Wow, that is a surefire way to get 3A blown out of the water. Those are very good/elite 5A teams. No way. That only proves the argument that an elite 3A couldn't hang with an elite 5A. I think everybody on this board already believes that.

[sahen]

i guess if we are staying somewhat regional...

West-Orange Stark vs. North Shore

Kirbyville vs. Beaumont West Brook

Jasper vs. Humble

kinda hard to go around Houston...no one from 22-3a would survive against a 5a team much less beat them...i dont know much about districts 23 and 24

maybe:

Columbus vs. Katy (ouch)

Giddings vs. someone like Spring Westfield or Woodlands

i dunno, my expertise is the east side of houston...

[sahen]

Originally posted by navscanmaster
Wow, that is a surefire way to get 3A blown out of the water. Those are very good/elite 5A teams. No way. That only proves the argument that an elite 3A couldn't hang with an elite 5A. I think everybody on this board already believes that.

well then we can hve good 3a vs. crappy 5a?

West-Orange Stark vs. Baytown Sterling

Jasper vs. Atascocita

Kirbyville vs. Channelview


there, thats the best of 21-3a vs. the worst of 21-5a....

i still think the 5a schools will win those, maybe go 2-1, albeit they woudl be close games probably....

i know thats only 1 district out of each, but i dont know much about the other districts in the state, atleast not enough to put them up against their 5a counterpart...district 22-3a and 22-5a would be a clean sweep for 22-5a...22-3a's teams were having probs against 2a schools....

[pooch]

you're sick in the 3a head.

[sahen]

Originally posted by pooch
you're sick in the 3a head.
?

[3afan]

http://www.thedirks.org/thegirls/erica-yawn-20030521.jpg