Big XII's Top 30 Players

[3afan]

(from CFN (http://cfn.scout.com/2/709862.html) )

1. QB Sam Bradford, Fr. Oklahoma
2. QB Chase Daniel, Jr. Missouri
3. LB Curtis Lofton, Jr. Oklahoma
4. WR Michael Crabtree, RFr. TTech
5. WR Jordy Nelson, Sr. Kansas St
6. WR/KR Jeremy Maclin, Fr. Miss.
7. QB Todd Reesing, Soph. Kansas
8. RB Jamaal Charles, Jr. Texas
9. QB Graham Harrell, Jr. TTech
10. LB Jordon Dizon, Sr. Colorado
11. CB Aqib Talib, Jr. Kansas
12. OT Anthony Collins, Jr. Kansas
13. DT Lorenzo Williams, Sr. Miss.
14. OG George Robinson, Jr. Okla.
15. DE Auston English, Soph. Okla.
16. TE Martin Rucker, Sr.Missouri
17. CB Reggie Smith, Jr. Oklahoma
18. LB Joe Mortensen, Jr. Kansas
19. C Adam Spieker, Sr. Missouri
20. DE George Hypolite, Jr. Colorado
21. LB Sean Weatherspoon, So. MU
22. QB Zac Robinson, Soph. OSU
23. CB Terrence Wheatley, Sr. CU
24. FS William Moore, Jr. Missouri
25. OT Tony Hills, Sr. Texas
26. RB Dantrell Savagae, Sr. OSU
27. RB James Johnson, St. KSU
28. RB Marlon Lucky, Jr. Nebraska
29. DT Frank Okam, Sr. Texas
30. SS D.J. Wolfe, Sr. Oklahoma

[neck_06]

martellus bennet and mike goodson should be on that list......that my only problem with it.


and i think #1 and #2 should be switched.

[3afan]

Originally posted by neck_06
...and i think #1 and #2 should be switched.

FYI: Bradford led the nation in passing eff and led his team to the Big XII title ...

[neck_06]

Originally posted by 3afan
FYI: Bradford led the nation in passing eff and led his team to the Big XII title ...

true, i'm just a chase daniel fan.

[big daddy russ]

Where are those Kansas WR's? They made Reesing.

[3afan]

Originally posted by neck_06
true, i'm just a chase daniel fan.

me too

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by neck_06
martellus bennet and mike goodson should be on that list......that my only problem with it.


and i think #1 and #2 should be switched.

Goodson was #15 in the conference in rushing yds and 18th in yards per carry...if D'Marco Murray isn't on the list (and he should be)...Goodson doesn't deserve to be either.

Bennett was #21 in receiving yds...behind 4 TT receivers and 2 or 3 other TE's.

IMO...Marcus Henry (WR Kansas) should be way up this list. He was Reesing's go to guy this year.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by 3afan
me too

the reason both were low with stats...is the sometimes questionable play calling and coaching they got....those two are football players.

[neck_06]

Originally posted by NastySlot
the reason both were low with stats...is the sometimes questionable play calling and coaching they got....those two are football players.

true statement....i think they'll both have breakout seasons next year under mike sherman

[swstangs001]

WAAAAT???? wheres colt mccoy??

[g$$]

Originally posted by neck_06
true statement....i think they'll both have breakout seasons next year under mike sherman

Agreed. Hope Bennett stays. Sherman's offense will showcase their skills (remember Bubba Franks in GB??)

Chris Harrington, A&M DE, should be listed IMO. Solid player & will play on Sundays. Cody Wallace too (co-OL of Year in Big 12).

[WylieBulldog92]

Originally posted by 3afan
(from CFN (http://cfn.scout.com/2/709862.html) )

1. QB Sam Bradford, Fr. Oklahoma
2. QB Chase Daniel, Jr. Missouri
3. LB Curtis Lofton, Jr. Oklahoma
4. WR Michael Crabtree, RFr. TTech
5. WR Jordy Nelson, Sr. Kansas St
6. WR/KR Jeremy Maclin, Fr. Miss.
7. QB Todd Reesing, Soph. Kansas
8. RB Jamaal Charles, Jr. Texas
9. QB Graham Harrell, Jr. TTech
10. LB Jordon Dizon, Sr. Colorado
11. CB Aqib Talib, Jr. Kansas
12. OT Anthony Collins, Jr. Kansas
13. DT Lorenzo Williams, Sr. Miss.
14. OG George Robinson, Jr. Okla.
15. DE Auston English, Soph. Okla.
16. TE Martin Rucker, Sr.Missouri
17. CB Reggie Smith, Jr. Oklahoma
18. LB Joe Mortensen, Jr. Kansas
19. C Adam Spieker, Sr. Missouri
20. DE George Hypolite, Jr. Colorado
21. LB Sean Weatherspoon, So. MU
22. QB Zac Robinson, Soph. OSU
23. CB Terrence Wheatley, Sr. CU
24. FS William Moore, Jr. Missouri
25. OT Tony Hills, Sr. Texas
26. RB Dantrell Savagae, Sr. OSU
27. RB James Johnson, St. KSU
28. RB Marlon Lucky, Jr. Nebraska
29. DT Frank Okam, Sr. Texas
30. SS D.J. Wolfe, Sr. Oklahoma
Did they even try?

[ensig]

Originally posted by neck_06
martellus bennet and mike goodson should be on that list......that my only problem with it.


and i think #1 and #2 should be switched.


ill give you goodson.... but what has bennet done? especially in comparison to the two mizzou te's and okie lite te?

[kepdawg]

I thought Malcolm Kelly was supposed to be good? Or was that just announcer hype?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by ensig
ill give you goodson.... but what has bennet done? especially in comparison to the two mizzou te's and okie lite te?
Definitely doesn't have the numbers, but Bennett has far more talent than any other TE in the Big XII. Jermichael Finley is second, and it's a bigger gap than most realize.

I think what they were all talking about was in terms of pure talent and ability to dominate a game while this list may have leaned more towards production. Coffman, Rucker, and Pettigrew played in pass-happy offenses that emphasized the outlet to the tight end(s... in the case of Mizzou) while Bennett played in the triple option.

[lepfan]

Originally posted by neck_06
martellus bennet and mike goodson should be on that list......that my only problem with it.


and i think #1 and #2 should be switched. Booger Daniel and his fit throwing does not impress me.

[ensig]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Definitely doesn't have the numbers, but Bennett has far more talent than any other TE in the Big XII. Jermichael Finley is second, and it's a bigger gap than most realize.

I think what they were all talking about was in terms of pure talent and ability to dominate a game while this list may have leaned more towards production. Coffman, Rucker, and Pettigrew played in pass-happy offenses that emphasized the outlet to the tight end(s... in the case of Mizzou) while Bennett played in the triple option.

you can have all the talent in the world but if you do not perform then it means nothing and you are not a "top player", a lot of it has to do with his coaching as is the same reason for mcgee and other aggies not being on the list, but stats are an easy way to gage performance.... imo bennet has under-performed since he has been in college station has not "dominated" a singe game therefore he has no claim as being one of the top players

[mistanice]

Originally posted by ensig
you can have all the talent in the world but if you do not perform then it means nothing and you are not a "top player", a lot of it has to do with his coaching as is the same reason for mcgee and other aggies not being on the list, but stats are an easy way to gage performance.... imo bennet has under-performed since he has been in college station has not "dominated" a singe game therefore he has no claim as being one of the top players

Here are stats

McGee 192/333 for 2,147
Bennett 45 rec. 541 4td

McCoy 255/393 for 3,129
Finley 43 rec. 563 2td

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by ensig
you can have all the talent in the world but if you do not perform then it means nothing and you are not a "top player", a lot of it has to do with his coaching as is the same reason for mcgee and other aggies not being on the list, but stats are an easy way to gage performance.... imo bennet has under-performed since he has been in college station has not "dominated" a singe game therefore he has no claim as being one of the top players
I've been to quite a few Aggie games and I feel exactly opposite. Just because he hasn't put up gaudy numbers doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't performed, and the fact that he's been underutilized has nothing to do with the way he dominates within games. He rarely has a dropped pass, is great at getting open and creating space, even when matched up against faster players, is a great red zone target with his strength, size, and athleticism, and is even a pretty huge factor in the run game.

If you saw him this last game, he completely dominated the Texas LB's and defensive linemen, and they were paying attention to Bennett. He was still dominant. Maybe not in a 10 catch, 200 yard, 3 TD way, but you don't have to put up those numbers to dominate within a game. Especially as a tight end.

His routes were primarily within seven yards of the LOS, not down the field, and he made good on his opportunities, catching five passes and giving McGee a solid outlet.

Sometimes in high school, coaches can't decide where to put the best athlete in the school. If they put him at receiver but don't have a QB capable of getting the ball down the field, all that talent is wasted. Likewise, they put that player at receiver, but only pass the ball five times a game, then all that talent is wasted because he'll barely touch the ball. So just to get the ball in that player's hands every play, they'll put him at QB.

College athletes don't have that option. If you're a great receiver playing on a running team, you're just outta luck. That's where Bennett stands right now, and that's unfortunate. Maybe Mike Sherman's offense will take better advantage of Bennett's skill set.

[coach]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I've been to quite a few Aggie games and I feel exactly opposite. Just because he hasn't put up gaudy numbers doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't performed, and the fact that he's been underutilized has nothing to do with the way he dominates within games. He rarely has a dropped pass, is great at getting open and creating space, even when matched up against faster players, is a great red zone target with his strength, size, and athleticism, and is even a pretty huge factor in the run game.

If you saw him this last game, he completely dominated the Texas LB's and defensive linemen, and they were paying attention to Bennett. He was still dominant. Maybe not in a 10 catch, 200 yard, 3 TD way, but you don't have to put up those numbers to dominate within a game. Especially as a tight end.

His routes were primarily within seven yards of the LOS, not down the field, and he made good on his opportunities, catching five passes and giving McGee a solid outlet.

Sometimes in high school, coaches can't decide where to put the best athlete in the school. If they put him at receiver but don't have a QB capable of getting the ball down the field, all that talent is wasted. Likewise, they put that player at receiver, but only pass the ball five times a game, then all that talent is wasted because he'll barely touch the ball. So just to get the ball in that player's hands every play, they'll put him at QB.

College athletes don't have that option. If you're a great receiver playing on a running team, you're just outta luck. That's where Bennett stands right now, and that's unfortunate. Maybe Mike Sherman's offense will take better advantage of Bennett's skill set.


i think he had one of the biggest games a te can have against baylor last year and what about mike goodson he made texas' defense look silly this year

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by coach
i think he had one of the biggest games a te can have against baylor talk about doing it vs the big boys :clap:

[coach]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
talk about doing it vs the big boys :clap:

i was actually mocking him lol

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by coach
i was actually mocking him lol
Mocking me? For pointing out that Bennett has been dominant without bringing up the Baylor game?

[ensig]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Mocking me? For pointing out that Bennett has been dominant without bringing up the Baylor game?

im not denying that bennet has talent but...

An avg of 3.75 catches/game.... not "dominant"

45 rec yds/game... not "dominant"

0.33 tds/game... not "dominant"

o and against texas he only had 5 rec for 48 yds and 0 tds... not "dominant"

His best game overall was against subpar la-monroe 6-98-0.... great game but look at the level of opponent

his best game against competition was against ku 8-91-0 good game but not "dominant" as he didnt reach the endzone and lost

Basically as stated previously, bennet has talent but is a far stretch from "dominate" and has performed at a top teir level, hence he doesnt deserve to be called a top player in the Big XII

[ensig]

sorry for the typo.... i meant has NOT performed at a top teir level

[NastySlot]

i going to assume that all those that base a players worth on stats....really believe the heisman goes to the best player in college football........and that all the recruiting services know what they are talking about.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by ensig
im not denying that bennet has talent but...

An avg of 3.75 catches/game.... not "dominant"

45 rec yds/game... not "dominant"

0.33 tds/game... not "dominant"

o and against texas he only had 5 rec for 48 yds and 0 tds... not "dominant"

His best game overall was against subpar la-monroe 6-98-0.... great game but look at the level of opponent

his best game against competition was against ku 8-91-0 good game but not "dominant" as he didnt reach the endzone and lost

Basically as stated previously, bennet has talent but is a far stretch from "dominate" and has performed at a top teir level, hence he doesnt deserve to be called a top player in the Big XII
You're basing everything on stats. Did you even read anything I said?


Originally posted by big daddy russ
Just because he hasn't put up gaudy numbers doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't performed, and the fact that he's been underutilized has nothing to do with the way he dominates within games....
If you saw him this last game, he completely dominated the Texas LB's and defensive linemen, and they were paying attention to Bennett. He was still dominant. Maybe not in a 10 catch, 200 yard, 3 TD way, but you don't have to put up those numbers to dominate within a game. Especially as a tight end.

His routes were primarily within seven yards of the LOS, not down the field, and he made good on his opportunities, catching five passes and giving McGee a solid outlet.

Vince Young rarely throws for more than 200 yards, but he's been known to dominate a game or two.

Originally posted by big daddy russ
He rarely has a dropped pass, is great at getting open and creating space, even when matched up against faster players, is a great red zone target with his strength, size, and athleticism, and is even a pretty huge factor in the run game.

Basically, you're arguing dominance based on his numbers. I'm arguing dominance based on the fact that nobody can contain him. It's not his fault if he gets the ball in traffic three yards from the LOS.

[BIGJOHNWAYNE]

Originally posted by swstangs001
WAAAAT???? wheres colt mccoy??

Colt McCoy is garbage, in a few years they will get a QB worth having (GJ Kinne), just my prediction, Colt McCOY doesnt even deserve to be in the top 100 in the big 12.

[ensig]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You're basing everything on stats. Did you even read anything I said?



Vince Young rarely throws for more than 200 yards, but he's been known to dominate a game or two.


Basically, you're arguing dominance based on his numbers. I'm arguing dominance based on the fact that nobody can contain him. It's not his fault if he gets the ball in traffic three yards from the LOS.

no im basing dominance on be able to single-handedly take over and determine the outcome of a game.... some that VY did very well and very often... bennet has yet to do that and most likely never will.... back to the #s, 3 catches for 45yds a game is pretty well "contained"

i only use numbers to prove a point. while i know that stats can be misleading, the numbers against bennet arent. he is an extraordinary athlete and i would consider him one of the top ATHLETES in the Big XII, yet with the system he voluntarily placed himself in, he can not be considered one of the top PLAYERS in the conference. maybe its the use of the word dominance and many different perceptions of it.

this being said, i am not saying that he will not go on to have a great nfl career. i am just saying that he hasnt produced and therefore can not be considered in top echelon of Big XII players at this point in time, which is the reason why you wont see him on all big XII teams.

[ensig]

Originally posted by NastySlot
i going to assume that all those that base a players worth on stats....really believe the heisman goes to the best player in college football........and that all the recruiting services know what they are talking about.

personally, i think the heisman should go to the player that is greatest mvp and helps thier team achieve greatness in relation to thier personal consitently exceptional performance , which is why if i had my vote it would go to mcfadden.

if i were to base it solely on the numbers then it would be b/w kevin smith of ucf and tebow and his numerous 1yd qb sneak tds

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by ensig
no im basing dominance on be able to single-handedly take over and determine the outcome of a game.... some that VY did very well and very often... bennet has yet to do that and most likely never will.... back to the #s, 3 catches for 45yds a game is pretty well "contained"

i only use numbers to prove a point. while i know that stats can be misleading, the numbers against bennet arent. he is an extraordinary athlete and i would consider him one of the top ATHLETES in the Big XII, yet with the system he voluntarily placed himself in, he can not be considered one of the top PLAYERS in the conference. maybe its the use of the word dominance and many different perceptions of it.

this being said, i am not saying that he will not go on to have a great nfl career. i am just saying that he hasnt produced and therefore can not be considered in top echelon of Big XII players at this point in time, which is the reason why you wont see him on all big XII teams.
What?

So if he is only thrown the ball three times during the game, is he still "contained," or does he just play for a team that runs the ball 90% of the time, even on third downs?

My definition of dominance is not having a single defensive player who can contain you. I'm pretty sure that's everyone's definition of dominance. I know of a bunch of guards and tackles who are dominant but never touch the ball throughout the course of a season.

A tight end is never the focal point of an offense. Never. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Kellen Winslow Sr, Mike Ditka, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Dave Casper, Ozzie Newsome, Keith Jackson... none of them have ever been the focal point of an offense. But every single one could take over a game, and that's exactly what you get with Martellus Bennett.

You arguing that Martellus isn't dominant because of his numbers is like arguing that Jeff Blake was more dominant than Troy Aikman. Numbers don't have anything to do with this argument. Aikman never passed for 3500 yards and only threw 20 or more TD's once. Guys like Bobby Hebert, Stan Humphries, and Jim Harbaugh had better years than Aikman throughout his heyday, but none were as dominant.

[jimmyceatworld]

Originally posted by BIGJOHNWAYNE
Colt McCoy is garbage, in a few years they will get a QB worth having (GJ Kinne), just my prediction, Colt McCOY doesnt even deserve to be in the top 100 in the big 12.

gj was a good high school qb, but how often do you see someone jump from 3a to a top program like ut? he has 3 qbs ahead of him right now so i do not foresee him playing anytime soon.

[g$$]

Originally posted by jimmyceatworld
gj was a good high school qb, but how often do you see someone jump from 3a to a top program like ut? he has 3 qbs ahead of him right now so i do not foresee him playing anytime soon.

Weak argument. Numerous players have made the jump from lower classes to the big-time. Talent is talent, period. GJ may or may not, but to simply base it on classification is ludicrous. Lots of 4A & 5A players have flopped too. It goes both ways.

Eric Dickerson - Sealy (then 2A)
Shaq O'Neal - SA Cole (then 3A) = & I played against him in HS, no joke then either!
Colt McCoy - Tuscola Jim Ned (2A)
Adrian Peterson - Palestine (3A & 4A)
Auston English = DE at OU All-Big 12 - Canadian (2A)

I could go & on about lower class players. I'm from 3A Sweeny & we have produced 10 NFL guys over the years. Talent is talent buddy!