Astros/Orioles in serious trade talks for Miguel Tejada...

[g$$]

National & local reports link the Astros & Orioles (again) in serious trade talks for SS Miguel Tejada. Tejada is on the downside of a fine career but still an upgrade if the deal is right.

> Tejada has a no trade clause, still due 2 yrs. & 26 million
> Astros would trade Chris Burke, Adam Everett, & a minor league prospect; Luke Scott maybe too
> Tejada has lost some range at SS & is likely to be named in upcoming Mitchell Report due out soon (steroids, performance enhancing drugs, etc.); possible suspension??
> Tejada's #s have slipped some in recent years
> Astros still need starting pitching badly behind Oswalt, Backe, etc.

IMO, do the deal if the Astros can make it happen without giving up Hunter Pence or Troy Patton (Berkman, Lee, & Oswalt have no trade clauses so off-limits anyway). If it does not strap us for the future, then I am for all for it. NOT a done deal yet but serious talks ongoing.

Probable Line-Up:
Bourn CF
Matsui 2B
Pence RF
Berkman 1B
Lee LF
Tejada SS
Wigginton 3B
Towles C
Pitcher

**Astros manager Cecil Cooper is on record as saying he wants to try Pence in 3-hole to get more speed at top of order & in front of Berkman, Lee, etc. That could change but I like it. That is a much better everyday line-up than where we were a few months ago.

Still need PITCHING! You cannot win without strong pitching, period. Astros picked up a young LHP today from Dodgers in Rule V Draft named Wesley Walker. Also looks like Mark Loretta will be back too. What do you guys think if this Tejada deal happens?...

[Maroon87]

It'd be nice but I'd rather have more pitching at this point. If the Stros can do this deal and still add some arms later in the winter then I'm all for it.

One thing you can say about Wade to this point is that he'll never be mistaken for Purpura.

[navscanmaster]

Originally posted by g$$
National & local reports link the Astros & Orioles (again) in serious trade talks for SS Miguel Tejada. Tejada is on the downside of a fine career but still an upgrade if the deal is right.

> Tejada has a no trade clause, still due 2 yrs. & 26 million
> Astros would trade Chris Burke, Adam Everett, & a minor league prospect; Luke Scott maybe too
> Tejada has lost some range at SS & is likely to be named in upcoming Mitchell Report due out soon (steroids, performance enhancing drugs, etc.); possible suspension??
> Tejada's #s have slipped some in recent years
> Astros still need starting pitching badly behind Oswalt, Backe, etc.

IMO, do the deal if the Astros can make it happen without giving up Hunter Pence or Troy Patton (Berkman, Lee, & Oswalt have no trade clauses so off-limits anyway). If it does not strap us for the future, then I am for all for it. NOT a done deal yet but serious talks ongoing.

Probable Line-Up:
Bourn CF
Matsui 2B
Pence RF
Berkman 1B
Lee LF
Tejada SS
Wigginton 3B
Towles C
Pitcher

**Astros manager Cecil Cooper is on record as saying he wants to try Pence in 3-hole to get more speed at top of order & in front of Berkman, Lee, etc. That could change but I like it. That is a much better everyday line-up than where we were a few months ago.

Still need PITCHING! You cannot win without strong pitching, period. Astros picked up a young LHP today from Dodgers in Rule V Draft named Wesley Walker. Also looks like Mark Loretta will be back too. What do you guys think if this Tejada deal happens?...

Do it without giving up Luke Scott and that sounds like a good deal, but I would like to know more about the possible case against him.

[Sweetwater Red]

Detroit offered him the same contract Baltimore did when he
was a free agent. I bet he's kicking himself in the ass right now.:doh: :thinking:

[g$$]

Originally posted by navscanmaster
Do it without giving up Luke Scott and that sounds like a good deal, but I would like to know more about the possible case against him.

Luke Scott will be traded somewhere this winter regardless. He is the odd man out now & other 4th OFs are now on team.

Maroon: see where Purp got a new job? VP for Minor League Baseball. So glad he is long gone from Astros! Can't stand the guy from personal experience & watching from afar too. Timid Tim the Puppet!

[big daddy russ]

I honestly don't like the trade and think Baltimore's getting the better end of the deal. Miggy was a good offensive SS and above average defensive SS in his prime, but check out his numbers the past few years:

2002 OAK AL MVP
.308/.354/.508 34 HR/151 RBI
2003 OAK AL
.278/.336/.472 27/106
2004 BAL AL
.311/.360/.504 34/150
2005 BAL AL
.304/.349/.515 26/98
2006 BAL AL
.330/.379/.498 24/100
2007 BAL AL
.296/.357/.442 18/81 (in 133 games)

His power's definitely declining. Just look at his slugging and home run totals. He's only 31, but his power should have increased the past few years.

I'll stop well short of accusing him of taking steroids, but for whatever reason, he's regressed. It's not the team, the ballpark, or anything else, and he'd see his numbers decline even further hitting in the six-hole.

If we could somehow keep Everett and throw Miggy at third (he has a great arm), I'd be all for it. As much as I like Wigginton (a potential 30-HR hitter at the front of the lineup), Tejada's definitely an upgrade and he still has a decent first step. Wouldn't be bad at third.

I like what Wade's done so far, but IMO the trade, as it stands, won't help the Stros out a whole lot. I know the market for arms is thinner now than ever, but because of that Houston needs to worry about their defense. Tejada would definitely be a downgrade from Everett, and who knows if he'll enjoy a renaissance or continue to regress.

[Old Tiger]

Astros management sucks anyway. Go figure they'll make a bad trade.



g$$ how could you possibly know/think who will be on the Mitchell report? That stuff is so confidential.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Astros management sucks anyway. Go figure they'll make a bad trade.



g$$ how could you possibly know/think who will be on the Mitchell report? That stuff is so confidential.

Nice jab at the Astros since you have admitted your lack of knowledge about baseball. 6/10 years in playoffs, 1 WS ring a bell?

As for the Mitchell Report, I don't know but he is rumored to be on it. Raffy Palmeiro did not help Tejada's case. Reading b/t the lines if you will. I hope he is not on it.

Russ: great points. Tejada is definitely on the decline as we both stated. Still see it as an upgrade overall. Tejada is better suited to play 3B now but Wigginton is signed & cheap for 2 more years (plus Blum is signed now & Loretta shortly probably). But bottom line is Astros still need lots of pitching help or it won't matter.

[buff4ever]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I honestly don't like the trade and think Baltimore's getting the better end of the deal. Miggy was a good offensive SS and above average defensive SS in his prime, but check out his numbers the past few years:

2002 OAK AL MVP
.308/.354/.508 34 HR/151 RBI
2003 OAK AL
.278/.336/.472 27/106
2004 BAL AL
.311/.360/.504 34/150
2005 BAL AL
.304/.349/.515 26/98
2006 BAL AL
.330/.379/.498 24/100
2007 BAL AL
.296/.357/.442 18/81 (in 133 games)

His power's definitely declining. Just look at his slugging and home run totals. He's only 31, but his power should have increased the past few years.

I'll stop well short of accusing him of taking steroids, but for whatever reason, he's regressed. It's not the team, the ballpark, or anything else, and he'd see his numbers decline even further hitting in the six-hole.

If we could somehow keep Everett and throw Miggy at third (he has a great arm), I'd be all for it. As much as I like Wigginton (a potential 30-HR hitter at the front of the lineup), Tejada's definitely an upgrade and he still has a decent first step. Wouldn't be bad at third.

I like what Wade's done so far, but IMO the trade, as it stands, won't help the Stros out a whole lot. I know the market for arms is thinner now than ever, but because of that Houston needs to worry about their defense. Tejada would definitely be a downgrade from Everett, and who knows if he'll enjoy a renaissance or continue to regress.

I am just talking here, but I don't think they are necessarily going after Tejada for power; much more power than everett though. They are going after him for a solid base hit prospect in the bottom of the line up and still a good short stop. Can you imagine if everett had these batting average numers over the last two years what could have happened. Just throwing this out there?

[Buccaneer]

This deal is dead.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
This deal is dead.

Not dead but fading fast.

Again: it won't matter if the Astros do not acquire more pitching. FA market is thin. Trades possible. You win big with pitching, defense, & timely hitting. Need more pitching behind Roy O. ASAP!

[htowntransplant]

i hope to god this trade doesnt happen. i wouldnt touch tejada with a 10 foot pole....with all the beef-roid allegations swirling. the lineup we have as is right now should be sufficient as long as we have some starting pitching. the bully looks pretty good already less a closer.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by g$$
National & local reports link the Astros & Orioles (again) in serious trade talks for SS Miguel Tejada. Tejada is on the downside of a fine career but still an upgrade if the deal is right.

> Tejada has a no trade clause, still due 2 yrs. & 26 million
> Astros would trade Chris Burke, Adam Everett, & a minor league prospect; Luke Scott maybe too
> Tejada has lost some range at SS & is likely to be named in upcoming Mitchell Report due out soon (steroids, performance enhancing drugs, etc.); possible suspension??
> Tejada's #s have slipped some in recent years
> Astros still need starting pitching badly behind Oswalt, Backe, etc.

IMO, do the deal if the Astros can make it happen without giving up Hunter Pence or Troy Patton (Berkman, Lee, & Oswalt have no trade clauses so off-limits anyway). If it does not strap us for the future, then I am for all for it. NOT a done deal yet but serious talks ongoing.

Probable Line-Up:
Bourn CF
Matsui 2B
Pence RF
Berkman 1B
Lee LF
Tejada SS
Wigginton 3B
Towles C
Pitcher

**Astros manager Cecil Cooper is on record as saying he wants to try Pence in 3-hole to get more speed at top of order & in front of Berkman, Lee, etc. That could change but I like it. That is a much better everyday line-up than where we were a few months ago.

Still need PITCHING! You cannot win without strong pitching, period. Astros picked up a young LHP today from Dodgers in Rule V Draft named Wesley Walker. Also looks like Mark Loretta will be back too. What do you guys think if this Tejada deal happens?...

I still like Tejada as a player, but the Stros need to be trying to land Johan Santana from the Twins. I'd offer up Berkman and Cody Ransom and see if that couldn't be a starting point for negotiations.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
I still like Tejada as a player, but the Stros need to be trying to land Johan Santana from the Twins. I'd offer up Berkman and Cody Ransom and see if that couldn't be a starting point for negotiations.

Is that a joke?

Berkman has a no trade clause & one of our best 2 players hands down, perennial All Star. Ransom is a journeyman who will be lucky to be on team. Would take a tremendous package to even get in game for Santana (former Astros minor leaguer btw). No way it happens - we don't have the prospects.

Gutted minor leagues thanks to Purp puts us on outside looking in here. Berkman, Oswalt, & Lee have no trade clauses, plus Pence is staying too. Don't have enough to offer like the Tigers did with the Marlins.

I would talk to Baltimore about LHP Erik Bedard though.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by g$$
Is that a joke?

Berkman has a no trade clause & one of our best 2 players hands down, perennial All Star. Ransom is a journeyman who will be lucky to be on team. Would take a tremendous package to even get in game for Santana (former Astros minor leaguer btw). No way it happens - we don't have the prospects.

Gutted minor leagues thanks to Purp puts us on outside looking in here. Berkman, Oswalt, & Lee have no trade clauses, plus Pence is staying too. Don't have enough to offer like the Tigers did with the Marlins.

I would talk to Baltimore about LHP Erik Bedard though.

You have to give to receive. I could see Lance waiving his No Trade Clause to go to Minnesota. Yeah, we'd be giving up an All-Star caliber player but we'd be getting one in an area where we need it the most. I'd try, but that's just me. I'm not saying MIN would go for it..but I'd at least give it a shot.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
You have to give to receive. I could see Lance waiving his No Trade Clause to go to Minnesota. Yeah, we'd be giving up an All-Star caliber player but we'd be getting one in an area where we need it the most. I'd try, but that's just me. I'm not saying MIN would go for it..but I'd at least give it a shot.

Nobody waives anything to go to Minnesota. Berkman sure would not - he is a native Texan & loves Houston. Nor would he be asked to do that here. That would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

It would take a 4-5 player package, primarily top minor league prospects. We simply don't have enough right now. Poor drafts/trades under Purp have set us way back. Rated bottom 1/3 for minor leagues right now. Early 2000s we were top 5.

[TexanFan4Life]

I agree with you on the poor farm system. I was just throwing in my 2 cents on the topic. I don't follow the Astros TOO closely, because they're an organization that cares more about making money than winning championships. Every single Houston pro sports franchise is the Wal-Mart shopper of their respective league. They try to put together teams with barely above average less-expensive players and I'm tired of it.

Off my soapbox now....

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
I agree with you on the poor farm system. I was just throwing in my 2 cents on the topic. I don't follow the Astros TOO closely, because they're an organization that cares more about making money than winning championships. Every single Houston pro sports franchise is the Wal-Mart shopper of their respective league. They try to put together teams with barely above average less-expensive players and I'm tired of it.

Off my soapbox now....

I don't think that's fair to say about the rockets and Texans - primarily because of salary caps in their leagues.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
I agree with you on the poor farm system. I was just throwing in my 2 cents on the topic. I don't follow the Astros TOO closely, because they're an organization that cares more about making money than winning championships. Every single Houston pro sports franchise is the Wal-Mart shopper of their respective league. They try to put together teams with barely above average less-expensive players and I'm tired of it.

Off my soapbox now....

I get what you are saying but that is not accurate on the Astros...2 years ago we had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB behind Yankees & Boston. Consistently top 1/3 in payroll last 6-8 years. NFL & NBA have salary caps. Astros went to playoffs 6/10 years & 1 WS.

Now, if you say "better decisions" or "better drafts" etc., then I am with you. I'm tired of it too.

To answer your question the other day on Texans:
1. Casserly & Capers regime
2. Poor drafts overall / no depth
3. Lead league in turnovers this year (31)
4. Stupid penalties & lack of discipline
5. 17 guys so far on IR for year

etc. Must get better next year or Kubiak is gone too. I do like Rick Smith (2nd year GM) & Kubiak though. Proof is in the pudding.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by g$$
I get what you are saying but that is not accurate on the Astros...2 years ago we had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB behind Yankees & Boston. Consistent top 1/3 in payroll last 10 years. NFL & NBA have salary caps. Astros went to playoffs 6/10 years & 1 WS.

Now, if you say "better decisions" or "better drafts" etc., then I am with you. I'm tired of it too.

Astros payroll 2 years ago was a little inflated with Clemens money, but you're right - they're usually in the top ten

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I don't think that's fair to say about the rockets and Texans - primarily because of salary caps in their leagues.

Charley Casserly strapped the Texans financially, and Rick Smith is doing a nice job of cleaning that up right now. We're set to have between $25 and $30M in cap room this offseason, so we need to try and sign Turner or Samuel. If we pass on those guys, my feelings will be validated.

The Rockets made a good move under Carroll Dawson (one of the few) and traded for McGrady a few years back. Now it's time to trade him. We aren't getting anywhere with him, and expectations are too high to keep achieving mediocrity.

You're right...take the Rockets out of that mix, because Scola is proving to be a stud for them. I'd still like to see a little more opening of the wallets though.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by g$$
I get what you are saying but that is not accurate on the Astros...2 years ago we had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB behind Yankees & Boston. Consistently top 1/3 in payroll last 6-8 years. NFL & NBA have salary caps. Astros went to playoffs 6/10 years & 1 WS.

Now, if you say "better decisions" or "better drafts" etc., then I am with you. I'm tired of it too.

To answer your question the other day on Texans:
1. Casserly & Capers regime
2. Poor drafts overall / no depth
3. Lead league in turnovers this year (31)
4. Stupid penalties & lack of discipline
5. 17 guys so far on IR for year

etc. Must get better next year or Kubiak is gone too. I do like Rick Smith (2nd year GM) & Kubiak though. Proof is in the pudding.

Perhaps better decision making would have been a better way to put it. I just posted on this. We must have posting at the same time. lol

[g$$]

Originally posted by SWMustang
Astros payroll 2 years ago was a little inflated with Clemens money, but you're right - they're usually in the top ten

Correct - Bagwell $$ too - but McLane has spent the $$ when warranted. Beltran wanted to leave, etc. Top 10 is plenty to win if you make smart decisions. We have not lately.

[g$$]

Originally posted by g$$
Still need PITCHING! You cannot win without strong pitching, period. Astros picked up a young LHP today from Dodgers in Rule V Draft named Wesley Walker. Also looks like Mark Loretta will be back too. What do you guys think if this Tejada deal happens?...

Correction:

Wesley Wright (not Walker)
23 year old LHP from Dodgers organization

Read good things about him, needs to refine fastball command but power arm & very good breaking ball. We need him! Projects as back end of bullpen guy. Must stay on 25 man MLB roster all year or be offered back to Dodgers. Rule V guy, so hope he does well.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by g$$
Correction:

Wesley Wright (not Walker)
23 year old LHP from Dodgers organization

Read good things about him, needs to refine fastball command but power arm & very good breaking ball. We need him! Projects as back end of bullpen guy. Must stay on 25 man MLB roster all year or be offered back to Dodgers. Rule V guy, so hope he does well.

Michael Braun and Josh Anderson are basically the same player. Young, talented prospects with bright careers.

In hindsight, we could have kept Anderson and traded Lidge for another package of talented youngsters and be in the same position we're in now.

We basically traded for Braun, when we could have kept Anderson and been in the same boat.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Michael Braun and Josh Anderson are basically the same player. Young, talented prospects with bright careers.

In hindsight, we could have kept Anderson and traded Lidge for another package of talented youngsters and be in the same position we're in now.

We basically traded for Braun, when we could have kept Anderson and been in the same boat.

Anderson has never been a can't miss prospect. Not same as Bourn - Bourn has more upside. Anderson had a good month when called up & I hope he does well. Lidge had to go.

Anderson is now with Atlanta in exchange for reliever Oscar Villareal.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by g$$
Anderson has never been a can't miss prospect. Not same as Bourn - Bourn has more upside. Anderson had a good month when called up & I hope he does well. Lidge had to go.

Anderson is now with Atlanta in exchange for reliever Oscar Villareal.

Anderson hit .357 in his time with the Astros last season. Braun provides basically the same player, in my opinion. What puts this trade over the top for me is the minor league 3B Costanzo. He's the guy to keep an eye out for.

Villareal has been nothing more than an average pitcher in his career. Nothing special for the Astros here. Anderson was worth more than that.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Anderson hit .357 in his time with the Astros last season. Braun provides basically the same player, in my opinion. What puts this trade over the top for me is the minor league 3B Costanzo. He's the guy to keep an eye out for.

Villareal has been nothing more than an average pitcher in his career. Nothing special for the Astros here. Anderson was worth more than that.

Dude, that was 1 month! Look up his career #s all the way thru the minors. Few walks, low OB% for slap hitter, good defensively, decent player.

I have watched Bourn since HS at Nimitz & at UH. He is a better player with more tools. Villareal for Anderson was a fair trade. He will be a 6th/7th inning guy & long relief. Bullpen body with a rubber arm.

Costanzo is a power hitter with holes in his swing (lots of Ks) & poor 3B. I hope he gets better, but not counting on it. Most scouts see him as a 1B in the near future.

You overvalue Anderson based on 1 month in MLB during mop-up time. Never judge a player by Spring Training or September call-ups. BODY OF WORK. For the record, I hope Anderson does well. Good Christian guy looking for a chance to play.

[kepdawg]

ESPN reports the trade has been done.

Tejada for Luke Scott, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Dennis Sarfate, and Michael Costanzo.

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by kepdawg
ESPN reports the trade has been done.

Tejada for Luke Scott, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Dennis Sarfate, and Michael Costanzo.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151849

[Panther One]

It will be interesting to see if Tejada plays short or third for the Astros.

[District303aPastPlayer]

from Htowntransplant (astro's homer): Bad Deal.

[sahen]

wow...we just sacrificed all our future pitching...hopefully tejada learns how throw a fastball about mid90s too....

we are turning into the texas rangers very quickly, a bunch of hitting and no pitching....and we can see how well that works out every year for the guys up in arlington....

[g$$]

Don't like it for these reasons: 5 players for 1 player is too much, & Astros still need PITCHING.

Also absolutely hate giving up Troy Patton. Once again, we need pitching, esp. starting pitching.

Miguel Tejada from Orioles

for

Troy Patton (LHP from Tomball HS)
Matt Albers (RHP from Sugar Land Clements HS)
Luke Scott (OF)
Mike Costanzo (3B acquired from Philly in Lidge deal)
Dennis Sarfate (RHP acquired from Brewers last year)

I think more deals are to come because you cannot go to Spring Training with this rotation:

Roy Oswalt
??
Brandon Backe
Wandy Rodriguez
Nieve/Gutierrez/Woody W.

Also, Ed Wade just announced that Miguel Tejada will play SS & hit 3rd in line-up. That is a change from what Cecil Cooper said last week. I don't like Hunter Pence sliding to 6th in order.

1. Bourn CF
2. Matsui 2B
3. Tejada SS
4. Berkman 1B
5. Lee LF
6. Pence RF
7. Wigginton 3B
8. Towles C
9. Pitcher

--solid line-up but who is pitching after Roy O.??

**I would hit Pence 2nd in front of Tejada & Berkman & slide Matsui to 6th personally. I guess that will all shake out later anyway. But when you hit top 4 in line-up that means about 100 more ABs on season & Pence does not need to be getting less ABs. Pence can run too.

**Also announced in press conference that Adam Everett will be a non-tendered FA tomorrow, meaning he is gone too. So basically a 6:1 deal. Too much for an aging SS with 2 yrs. & $26 million left on contract. Tejada is still a good player but not what he once was to do this deal (5:1 + Everett).

**Mitchell Report to be released tomorrow naming 60-80 names from MLB's past & present regarding steroids & performance enhancing drugs. I sure hope Tejada is not on it as he has been rumored to be for quite some time (suspension??).

For that big of a deal, I would have thrown a bunch of people at Baltimore for stud LHP Erik Bedard (they are trying to move him before he leaves for big $$ soon). You just did a 5:1 deal anyway.

[Panther One]

Tejada: Proven player. Until last year's wrist injury, was a guy you could count on being in the lineup on a daily basis and producing. The one negative against him is the fear that his name may surface in the Mitchell Report.

Scott: Below average defensive outfielder...should really be in left field, but that wasn't going to happen with the Astros. Prone to nagging injuries that keep him out of the lineup. I'm a big fan of Luke, but he didn't have a spot on this team for next year, so I'm glad to see him land somewhere else.

Castanzo: Third base prospect acquired from the Phillies. Poor defensive player. Has power, but strikes out a lot. If he can fix the hole in his swing, could be a good major league player. If he can't, he'll never stick in the majors. The Lidge deal was for Bourn, so I don't mind parting ways with Castanzo.

Albers: Decent pitcher. The Astros always looked at him as being a starter, but he hasn't shown much in his time on the mound. At best, I think he's a backend of the rotation guy, but the Astros have plenty of pitchers that fit that description right now.

Sarfate: Became a relief pitcher last year in Triple A. Saw a little time with the Astros last year (7 appearances). Still a prospect. I don't know if the Orioles will keep him in the pen or move him back into a starters role, but with the Astros, he was going to be fighting for a bullpen job, so he was expendable.

Patton: His inclusion in this trade is what is going to make the majority of Astros think it's a bad deal. I don't think he could have been the number 2 or 3 starter that the Astros need next year, but he definitely would have been in the mix and could have possibly assumed that role in the future. There may have been some concern on the Astros part when they had to shut him down at the end of last season becasue of arm soreness, but they didn't make much out of it then. He and Pence were supposedly the untouchables, but I guess the Astros wanted Tejada that bad.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by g$$
**Mitchell Report to be released tomorrow naming 60-80 names from MLB's past & present regarding steroids & performance enhancing drugs. I sure hope Tejada is not on it as he has been rumored to be for quite some time (suspension??).

Makes one wonder why they deal went through the day BEFORE the Mitchell Report comes out! :thinking:

[Panther One]

You can also throw Felipe Paulino and Chris Sampson into the mix of guys battling for a rotation spot.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
Tejada: Proven player. Until last year's wrist injury, was a guy you could count on being in the lineup on a daily basis and producing. The one negative against him is the fear that his name may surface in the Mitchell Report.

Scott: Below average defensive outfielder...should really be in left field, but that wasn't going to happen with the Astros. Prone to nagging injuries that keep him out of the lineup. I'm a big fan of Luke, but he didn't have a spot on this team for next year, so I'm glad to see him land somewhere else.

Castanzo: Third base prospect acquired from the Phillies. Poor defensive player. Has power, but strikes out a lot. If he can fix the hole in his swing, could be a good major league player. If he can't, he'll never stick in the majors. The Lidge deal was for Bourn, so I don't mind parting ways with Castanzo.

Albers: Decent pitcher. The Astros always looked at him as being a starter, but he hasn't shown much in his time on the mound. At best, I think he's a backend of the rotation guy, but the Astros have plenty of pitchers that fit that description right now.

Sarfate: Became a relief pitcher last year in Triple A. Saw a little time with the Astros last year (7 appearances). Still a prospect. I don't know if the Orioles will keep him in the pen or move him back into a starters role, but with the Astros, he was going to be fighting for a bullpen job, so he was expendable.

Patton: His inclusion in this trade is what is going to make the majority of Astros think it's a bad deal. I don't think he could have been the number 2 or 3 starter that the Astros need next year, but he definitely would have been in the mix and could have possibly assumed that role in the future. There may have been some concern on the Astros part when they had to shut him down at the end of last season becasue of arm soreness, but they didn't make much out of it then. He and Pence were supposedly the untouchables, but I guess the Astros wanted Tejada that bad.


Good analysis - nice to have a baseball guy here with me (& Russ, Maroon, & few others)!!

Everett is gone, anounced by Ed Wade in press conference (& Loretta will be back for insurance & depth). Everett will be a non-tendered FA tomorrow. So Tejada will play SS & Wigginton 3B. Patton had some shoulder soreness but nothing major - just rigors of long season. He checked out fine & velocity had come back. I have watched Patton since HS at Tomball & with the Houston Heat where my nephew played. Patton has a chance to be a stud. We paid him slot money as a 9th rounder (thought to be unsignable & going to UT). Now we give him up in a 5:1 deal. I don't like that part of the deal, but our line-up is greatly improved.

Scott, Sarfate, Costanzo, Albers were expendable. Costanzo has plus power but Ks too much & may soon move to 1B anyway. Scott had no role on this team, Albers has a good arm but question marks, & Sarfate is iffy for MLB roster anyway (Sarfate can dial it up in upper 90s with plus fastball).

MUST GET STARTING PITCHING or it will not matter.

Expect Jon Lieber to be signed soon.

[big daddy russ]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.


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[Maroon87]

I'll reserve judgement on the deal for now...all this player movement has my head spinning. These are not the "stand pat" Astros I'm used to.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
You can also throw Felipe Paulino and Chris Sampson into the mix of guys battling for a rotation spot.

Correct.

Paulino has the best arm in the system & may be a future closer. He seems better suited for a bullpen role right now. He needs secondary pitches to go with plus fastball.

Sampson is a battler. Short on MLB stuff but knows how to pitch (Texas Tech guy too from Channelview). I think he either sticks again as 5th starter or long relief guy. Had some injury concerns last year too (elbow).

Line-up & bullpen are better right now than last year. Starting pitching is huge question mark.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Maroon87
I'll reserve judgement on the deal for now...all this player movement has my head spinning. These are not the "stand pat" Astros I'm used to.

Ed Wade is sure not Timid Tim Purpura is he?

I think we have now acquired 14 players since he took over as GM.

I just wish some of those were starting pitchers to help Roy O.!

Here's what I think: the Astros realize their shortcomings in the starting rotation. So, to offset that, they have greatly improved the line-up & strengthened the bullpen (depth).

However, it is hard to bash your way to the playoffs & in doing that, wearing out the bullpen due to subpar starting pitching. I am old school - pitching, defense, & timely hitting wins games in the long run.

[big daddy russ]

By the way, I read an article this morning on ESPN that talked about Kaz Matsui's splits away from Coors. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for great defense and I didn't mind the signing, but he had a .308 OBP away from Coors. Pence's batting average is higher than that.

[Panther One]

Originally posted by g$$
Ed Wade is sure not Timid Tim Purpura is he?

I think we have now acquired 14 players since he took over as GM.

I just wish some of those were starting pitchers to help Roy O.!

Here's what I think: the Astros realize their shortcomings in the starting rotation. So, to offset that, they have greatly improved the line-up & strengthened the bullpen (depth).

However, it is hard to bash your way to the playoffs & in doing that, wearing out the bullpen due to subpar starting pitching. I am old school - pitching, defense, & timely hitting wins games in the long run.
We knew going into this offseason that the pool of free agent pitchers was not going to help our pitching problems. Drayton has never been one to sit back and have a rebuilding year. He wants to do evertying possible to put a winner on the field each year. The best way to do that this year was to improve the offense, which has been done. I'm sure they'll bring in one or two more arms this year, but that number two guy they're after won't be coming until next year at the earliest.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by g$$
Here's what I think: the Astros realize their shortcomings in the starting rotation. So, to offset that, they have greatly improved the line-up & strengthened the bullpen (depth).

However, it is hard to bash your way to the playoffs & in doing that, wearing out the bullpen due to subpar starting pitching. I am old school - pitching, defense, & timely hitting wins games in the long run.
Welcome to the Jon Daniels school of GM-ing...

Btw...here's what the Rangers have to show for it since he started...

No Trophies...
http://www.dick-blick.com/items/508/11/50811-OA1ww-s.jpg

Empty Ballpark
http://www.imaybeknittingaranchhouse.com/archives/ameriquest-inside.jpg

Chan Ho Park (glad he's gone)
http://azdiamondhacks.mlblogs.com/diamondhacks/images/chanhopark.jpg

Chris Young (WTH were you thinking John???)
http://www.princetonbasketball.com/images/chrisyoung.jpg

Carlos Lee for Kevin Mench (why did we trade away a clubhouse leader for a temporary player???)
http://lacarreraespacial.mlblogs.com/la_carrera_espacial/images/capt2c52e08979f5475d84122649cfc97d64astr.jpg for http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/images/2007/04/26/lNOEJuPG.jpg

Ron Washington (there's a REASON that we have him...none of the "better jobs" (see Oakland) wanted to hire him...despite the rumors)
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jon_heyman/06/13/scoop.wednesday/t1_ronwashington.jpg

Now...for the big finish....drumroll PLLLLLLLLEASEEEEEEEE...

YOSHA!!!!!!!!!

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2006-05-10-otsuka.jpg

He made some "good moves" this summer in acquiring a lot of talent...but I don't know if he'll live to see the end of it...

http://www.billyarredondo.com/FireJDDotCom/FireJD.jpg

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
By the way, I read an article this morning on ESPN that talked about Kaz Matsui's splits away from Coors. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for great defense and I didn't mind the signing, but he had a .308 OBP away from Coors. Pence's batting average is higher than that.

You are exactly right. Kaz hit 81 pts. lower on road too.

Yet, as of now, they are set on hitting him 2nd & Pence 6th. I would flip that & get Pence to the top & more ABs in front of Tejada/Berkman/Lee.

If I had a say:

1. Bourn
2. Pence (not typical 2 hole hitter but needed)
3. Tejada
4. Berkman (switch hitter sandwiched)
5. Lee
6. Wigginton
7. Matsui
8. Towles
9. Pitcher

But Astros say as of now:
1. Bourn
2. Matsui
3. Tejada
4. Berkman
5. Lee
6. Pence
7. Wigginton
8. Towles
9. Pitcher

Solid line-up, lack starting pitching though.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Welcome to the Jon Daniels school of GM-ing...

Btw...here's what the Rangers have to show for it since he started...

No Trophies...
http://www.dick-blick.com/items/508/11/50811-OA1ww-s.jpg

Empty Ballpark
http://www.imaybeknittingaranchhouse.com/archives/ameriquest-inside.jpg

Chan Ho Park (glad he's gone)
http://azdiamondhacks.mlblogs.com/diamondhacks/images/chanhopark.jpg

Chris Young (WTH were you thinking John???)
http://www.princetonbasketball.com/images/chrisyoung.jpg

Carlos Lee for Kevin Mench (why did we trade away a clubhouse leader for a temporary player???)
http://lacarreraespacial.mlblogs.com/la_carrera_espacial/images/capt2c52e08979f5475d84122649cfc97d64astr.jpg for http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/images/2007/04/26/lNOEJuPG.jpg

Ron Washington (there's a REASON that we have him...none of the "better jobs" (see Oakland) wanted to hire him...despite the rumors)
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jon_heyman/06/13/scoop.wednesday/t1_ronwashington.jpg

Now...for the big finish....drumroll PLLLLLLLLEASEEEEEEEE...

YOSHA!!!!!!!!!

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2006-05-10-otsuka.jpg

He made some "good moves" this summer in acquiring a lot of talent...but I don't know if he'll live to see the end of it...

http://www.billyarredondo.com/FireJDDotCom/FireJD.jpg

Great post w/ pics!

Exactly why I say I am old school & always will be: strong pitching, great defense, & timely hitting wins in the long run.

Remember the 2005 Astros? Went to WS right? Offense was poor (scored more runs last year in 73 win season) but pitching carried them.

PITCHING wins! This team will be fun to watch, but it may resemble slow pitch softball quite often. Bullpen will be worn down by August I'm afraid plugging the starting pitching holes.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
We knew going into this offseason that the pool of free agent pitchers was not going to help our pitching problems. Drayton has never been one to sit back and have a rebuilding year. He wants to do evertying possible to put a winner on the field each year. The best way to do that this year was to improve the offense, which has been done. I'm sure they'll bring in one or two more arms this year, but that number two guy they're after won't be coming until next year at the earliest.

You are right - pitching market is thin. And Drayton does not understand rebuilding. He understands butts in seats & $$$. He finally now gets it that you have to spend $$ on the minor leagues & player development after Purp's fiasco. Astros have to draft/develop kids not just go out & pay FAs. Never survive long-term that way in Houston.

How good would Johan Santana (former Astros minor leaguer) look on this team? Or what if Carlos Hernandez does not get hurt? Or same for Wade Miller & injuries?

Oh the what if game...

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by g$$
PITCHING wins! This team will be fun to watch, but it may resemble slow pitch softball quite often. Bullpen will be worn down by August I'm afraid plugging the starting pitching holes.
Exactly. The past few years the Rangers come out with the thought of "the offense is good...the bullpen is good...the starting pitching needs work but if we can just get (unexpected AND unlikely) production from the starters then maybe we can win 85-90 games and sneak into the playoffs. However...by mid-June it's obvious that we have 2 or 3 starting pitchers...and are running 4-5 other guys (Loe, Benoit, Wright, Rheinecker, etc) back and forth from the pen to "spot start" along with bringing up AAA guys and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle (Tejeda, Volquez, Wood, Murray) for a few weeks while waiting on Millwood, Padilla, and/or McCarthy to come back off the DL. Then by the time we reach August (even the years we've been near the division lead)...the heat is wearing down (put a damn roof on the stadium instead of building more clubs and renovating suites Hicks!!! :mad:) and the staff is exhausted...and we fade away.

As Wylie coach Hugh Sandifer says, "The heat is a crippling thing."

[Panther One]

Originally posted by g$$
Oh the what if game...
Cubs fans know all about that...Wood and Prior.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by g$$
You are exactly right. Kaz hit 81 pts. lower on road too.

Yet, as of now, they are set on hitting him 2nd & Pence 6th. I would flip that & get Pence to the top & more ABs in front of Tejada/Berkman/Lee.

If I had a say:

1. Bourn
2. Pence (not typical 2 hole hitter but needed)
3. Tejada
4. Berkman (switch hitter sandwiched)
5. Lee
6. Wigginton
7. Matsui
8. Towles
9. Pitcher
Hell, with Berkman's OBP, I don't know why they want him at cleanup. I'd throw him at number three in a heartbeat, get some runners on base, and put Tejada or Lee behind him. His OBP is typically .400+ (among the best in the majors) with an OPS dang near 1.000.

We didn't need Tejada. Period. And we really didn't need to gut our minor league system further to pick him up.

I was all for the Wade hire until roughly one hour ago. This lineup will get us where Colorado's 2001 (Todd Helton, Juan Pierre, Todd Hollandsworth, Larry Walker, etc.) lineup got them. Number two in runs scored, dead last in their division. At least the 'Stros still play in the same division as Pittsburgh.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Exactly. The past few years the Rangers come out with the thought of "the offense is good...the bullpen is good...the starting pitching needs work but if we can just get (unexpected AND unlikely) production from the starters then maybe we can win 85-90 games and sneak into the playoffs. However...by mid-June it's obvious that we have 2 or 3 starting pitchers...and are running 4-5 other guys (Loe, Benoit, Wright, Rheinecker, etc) back and forth from the pen to "spot start" along with bringing up AAA guys and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle (Tejeda, Volquez, Wood, Murray) for a few weeks while waiting on Millwood, Padilla, and/or McCarthy to come back off the DL. Then by the time we reach August (even the years we've been near the division lead)...the heat is wearing down (put a damn roof on the stadium instead of building more clubs and renovating suites Hicks!!! :mad:) and the staff is exhausted...and we fade away.

As Wylie coach Hugh Sandifer says, "The heat is a crippling thing."

Good stuff. I agree 100%.

The Ballpark in Arlington (new name...) is beautiful, but I have never understood why no retractable roof. It saves you in the dead of summer (players & fans). Hicks has the $$, issue a bond, something. That place needs a roof!

[Panther One]

Ha. Just read the updated ESPN article. I forgot that Tejada won the Home Run derby at Minute Maid in 2004. I think he's going to like the Crawford boxes.

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Hell, with Berkman's OBP, I don't know why they want him at cleanup. I'd throw him at number three in a heartbeat, get some runners on base, and put Tejada or Lee behind him. His OBP is typically .400+ (among the best in the majors) with an OPS dang near 1.000.

We didn't need Tejada. Period. And we really didn't need to gut our minor league system further to pick him up.

I was all for the Wade hire until roughly one hour ago. This lineup will get us where Colorado's 2001 (Todd Helton, Juan Pierre, Todd Hollandsworth, Larry Walker, etc.) lineup got them. Number two in runs scored, dead last in their division. At least the 'Stros still play in the same division as Pittsburgh.

Good points, but what they are trying to do is sandwich the switch hitting Berkman between the 2 righties (Tejada & Lee). That is for match-up reasons late in games vs. relievers & making teams use more players.

Actually, in Berkman's best years he has been around .1100 OPS (.400+ & .600+). Last year was a down year for Lance & he still ended up w/ 30+ HRs & 100+ RBIs & around .270+ BA.

Division may be the only saving grace. We still lack pitching, & STL/MIL/CUBS all have deeper rotations.

[Panther One]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I was all for the Wade hire until roughly one hour ago.
I think Drayton was the driving force behind this trade. The Astros were trying to get Tejada long before Wade came on board.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
Ha. Just read the updated ESPN article. I forgot that Tejada won the Home Run derby at Minute Maid in 2004. I think he's going to like the Crawford boxes.

Sure did over Berkman. Tejada still has pull power left as he is on the decline from great years. Crawford Boxes are very reachable at 315 ft. by most though!

Hey, Tejada can still play, but we gave up way too much IMO esp. young pitchers like Patton & Albers. Astros are trying to contend now & everything else be damned. Overall, I don't like it long-term but I will be there cheering & having a good time.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
I think Drayton was the driving force behind this trade. The Astros were trying to get Tejada long before Wade came on board.

Agreed - been trying since 2005.

Drayton fell in love w/ Miggy at HR Derby held in Houston for All Star Game in 2004. Before that day I promise you he had never heard of him. Drayton's baseball knowledge is very limited. I know that 1st hand when I worked there. Nice man & great businessman, but baseball illiterate.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by g$$
Good points, but what they are trying to do is sandwich the switch hitting Berkman between the 2 righties (Tejada & Lee). That is for match-up reasons late in games vs. relievers & making teams use more players.

Division may be the only saving grace. We still lack pitching, & STL/MIL/CUBS all have deeper rotations. But isn't Matsui a switch hitter and Pence a righty? I'm pretty sure Carlos Lee and Tejada are both righties, too. That's what I don't understand about all this, it doesn't make sense from any aspect.

I hate this trade, period. We gave up a potential number two starter and a good bat for a declining SS who's anything but a great defender... when we didn't even need a SS! Terrible trade. We'll really start to feel it in 2009.

[SWMustang]

I hate this trade too. Giving up Patton was too much.

[big daddy russ]

One more thing I didn't think about earlier, this makes the deal for Matsui utterly worthless. We're set to have good defense in maybe 2/5 of the infield. The left side is like a sieve. Why spend that much on a player who's more known for good defense than his bat only to let the solid defensive infield you had in place leave? Completely counterproductive.

This is what we have to look forward to in 2009:

-No defense
-No pitching
-No depth
-No future (minor league system)
-Some aging bats
-Watching a local boy blossom on the East Coast
-and a team ERA somewhere in the low-teens

Trade makes absolutely zero sense from an organizational standpoint. It doesn't help them win now and doesn't help them win in the future. But it does bring in another bat, so I guess that makes up for how far back it's setting the team, right?

[SWMustang]

There are a lot of fans that go to minute maid that would rather see the Astros lose 10-8 (due to all the scoring) than see a 3-1 pitcher's duel. I think they're going to be thrilled next year. I swear I've sat next to a ton of dumb basball fans (more apporpriately "paople hanging out at an MLB stadium). One time I overheard a dumb a$$ ask why Roger Clemens was paid so much money after he struck out looking.

[Panther One]

Last year the Rockies were second in the NL in runs scored, but only 8th in ERA (four spots above the Astros). They made it to the World Series. The Phillies were 13th in ERA, but first in runs scored and made it to the playoffs, where they lost to the Rockies. It's not that far-fetched to believe that the Astros have a shot at making it to the playoffs. Will they win the World Series? Probably not. The NL Central isn't exactly a tough division, so their odds look pretty good right now to at least compete for the playoffs.

It's obvious that with a crappy free agent market for pitchers, that the Astros have spent the offseason improving their offense to try to improve the club for next year. Next offseason, they'll probably go out and sign a free agent pitcher or two. I think after this offseason, you'll see the Astros start rebuilding the farm system and hold on to their prospects. Any holes at the big league level will be filled through free agency. It's going to cost Drayton money, but he seems to be willing to go that route.

[themsu97]

I would have traded Patton... but not for Tejada... I would be willing to bet that the Marlins would have taken that for Willis who I would have rather had...

The key with Albers and Patton is that they have potential, but Tejada and Willis are proven...
the Astros want to win now and they need offense, period...
they can get some average pitchers and be okay... Jennings may still be an option and Freddy Garcia is available... the bullpen has been solidified.. I would love to see Nieve as closer...
butts in the seats will help and you never know what will happen... you could get something for Burke...
I am excited

[Panther One]

If we were going to get someone from Florida, I would have taken Cabrera. You just don't know what you're going to get from Willis. He was horrible last year. Wandy put up better numbers. The last thing the Astros need is another Jennings.

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
But isn't Matsui a switch hitter and Pence a righty? I'm pretty sure Carlos Lee and Tejada are both righties, too. That's what I don't understand about all this, it doesn't make sense from any aspect.

I hate this trade, period. We gave up a potential number two starter and a good bat for a declining SS who's anything but a great defender... when we didn't even need a SS! Terrible trade. We'll really start to feel it in 2009.

Bourn hits lefty & Matsui is a switch hitter. Pence is a righty too, Berkman switch, Lee & Tejada righty. That is their reasoning - spacing out switch hitters so a team can't bring in a say situational lefty to face multiple batters from one side late in game. Pretty RH line-up anyway to me with 2 switch hitters.

I like this one too:

1. Bourn = LH hitter (edit from before, my error)
2. Pence = RH
3. Berkman = SW (still overall best hitter as #3 hole should be)
4. Lee = RH
5. Tejada = RH
6. Wigginton = RH
7. Matsui = SW
8. Towles = RH
9. Pitcher

**allows Pence to hit in front of proven vets & see more pitches to hit & use his speed & OB%

**hitting Pence 6th will cost him ABs on year (like 70-80 ABs)

**pretty simple, best hitters should bat more often

But bottom line is we need more pitching or it won't matter in long run...Oswalt & pray for rain! Line-up/bench is better & bullpen deeper, but starting pitching ranks near bottom of MLB as currently composed.

[g$$]

Originally posted by SWMustang
There are a lot of fans that go to minute maid that would rather see the Astros lose 10-8 (due to all the scoring) than see a 3-1 pitcher's duel. I think they're going to be thrilled next year. I swear I've sat next to a ton of dumb basball fans (more apporpriately "paople hanging out at an MLB stadium). One time I overheard a dumb a$$ ask why Roger Clemens was paid so much money after he struck out looking.

Wow. Those truly are non-baseball fans. Solid pitching, good defense, & timely hitting will always be the way to win big.

I worry about our starting pitching...


**One more thing to consider: Tejada can demand a trade after this year since he is a veteran traded in the middle of a long-term deal. He can demand a trade before 2009 season. That makes this deal is even more iffy.

[Panther One]

Bourn actually bats from the left side.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
Last year the Rockies were second in the NL in runs scored, but only 8th in ERA (four spots above the Astros). They made it to the World Series. The Phillies were 13th in ERA, but first in runs scored and made it to the playoffs, where they lost to the Rockies. It's not that far-fetched to believe that the Astros have a shot at making it to the playoffs. Will they win the World Series? Probably not. The NL Central isn't exactly a tough division, so their odds look pretty good right now to at least compete for the playoffs.

It's obvious that with a crappy free agent market for pitchers, that the Astros have spent the offseason improving their offense to try to improve the club for next year. Next offseason, they'll probably go out and sign a free agent pitcher or two. I think after this offseason, you'll see the Astros start rebuilding the farm system and hold on to their prospects. Any holes at the big league level will be filled through free agency. It's going to cost Drayton money, but he seems to be willing to go that route.

Good points, but still more the exception than the rule. Strong pitching usually wins in the end. And none of those teams won the WS either. Boston had it all in their arsenal.

Jon Lieber, Carlos Silva, Freddy Garcia, & others are possibilities this year via FA. None are true #2 starters. Wade & scouting staff will rebuild the farm system no doubt. He has a proven track record there.

[g$$]

Originally posted by themsu97
I would have traded Patton... but not for Tejada... I would be willing to bet that the Marlins would have taken that for Willis who I would have rather had...

The key with Albers and Patton is that they have potential, but Tejada and Willis are proven...
the Astros want to win now and they need offense, period...
they can get some average pitchers and be okay... Jennings may still be an option and Freddy Garcia is available... the bullpen has been solidified.. I would love to see Nieve as closer...
butts in the seats will help and you never know what will happen... you could get something for Burke...
I am excited

Patton would not have gotten you Willis at face value. Would have taken much more. Patton is a good prospect but not can't miss elite like Chamberlain, Hughes, Clay Buchholz, etc. Paulino is a better prospect based on stuff.

Detroit gave up 6 players for Willis & the big prize Cabrera. Miller & Maybin were the key guys, plus 4 other highly touted prospects. Astros right now just don't have enough for that kind of deal in the minors. Blame Purp for that.

I like Nieve too but he is coming off major elbow surgery. Loved his stuff before the injury. One to watch for sure. Closers are hard to find - Joe Nathan (MINN, Houston native) is a name to watch this season around trade deadline.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Panther One
Bourn actually bats from the left side.

Bats left, throws right. I knew that & screwed up in my post. I have watched Bourn since HS at Nimitz & at UH. Good call Panther.

[g$$]

Originally posted by g$$
**One more thing to consider: Tejada can demand a trade after this year since he is a veteran traded in the middle of a long-term deal. He can demand a trade before 2009 season. That makes this deal is even more iffy.

This is huge & not widely known yet. It sure throws a blanket over the deal if he does indeed demand a trade before 2009 season. Any thoughts?

Astros have traded 7 pitchers since last year, including some of best arms in system.

Lidge
Wheeler
Hirsh
Albers
Patton
T. Buccholz
Sarfate

lost Clemens & Pettitte too via FA (maybe Jennings too/injured)

Tough when you really need pitching help...

[duckpluck]

I like the deal. but Astros do need another SP.