ESPN's list of Greatest Football Players Ever!

[Phil C]

They still have the top two left but below are the list of the other 23. I don't know what criteria they determine them.

3. Herschel Walker

4. Doak Walker

5. Sammy Baugh

6. Jim Thorpe

7. Tony Dorsett

8 Bo Jackson

9. Roger Stauback

10. Vince Young

11. Charles Woodson

12. Earl Campbell

13. Glenn Davis

14. Hugh Green

15. John Elway

16. Tom Harmon

17. Bronko Nagurski

18. Jim Brown

19. Dick Butkus

20. Charley Trippi

21. Archie Griffin

22. George Gipp

23. Johnny Rodgers

24. Reggie Bush

25. Ernie Nevers.


I don't know who the final two will be for sure but I bet one of them is Red Grange and I wouldn't be surprised if he is voted No. 1.

[themsu97]

I hate the "Now" selections... Archie Griffin was one of the best as was Thorpe, they should be top 5... Campbell over VY anyday...
but that is just me... at least they did not let Beano Cook decide anything... "Ron Powlus will win 2 Heisman's before he leaves Noter Dame"

[Bearkat]

This is a joke, right? Bo Jackson and Vince Young are in the top 10? I can name 3 running backs(Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Sweetness) that are way better than these two and there are only two spots left. This list is about as much of a joke as the Heisman.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Bearkat
This is a joke, right? Bo Jackson and Vince Young are in the top 10? I can name 3 running backs(Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Sweetness) that are way better than these two and there are only two spots left. This list is about as much of a joke as the Heisman. This a COLLEGE football all-time greatest list. All 3 of those guys were solid college players but better pro players. Sweetness might be the exception to that, but he played D-2 ball in college. I have to agree that Archie Griffith is getting shafted. How can you be the ONLY 2 time winner of the Heisman and not make the Top 10?

[Highschoolfan78]

this list is ridiculous

[crzyjournalist03]

where's Ricky Williams?????

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
where's Ricky Williams?????

Medicating himself.:thinking:

Oh, you meant on the list.:doh: :D

[themsu97]

Sanders was a virtual unknown... what's worse is that Ron Dayne could be one of the two since he holds like all rushing records and then there could be Dan Marino...

but Archie was severely shafted

[Bull19]

VY IN THE TOP 10????? DID HE EVEN WIN A HEISMAN?

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Bull19
VY IN THE TOP 10????? DID HE EVEN WIN A HEISMAN?

no, he just won two Rose Bowls against two top five teams and won a national championship.

[themsu97]

no, but ESPN was in love with VY... as they were with Leinart and Bush, which is why I am surprised Bush is that low...

[Highschoolfan78]

Originally posted by themsu97
Sanders was a virtual unknown... what's worse is that Ron Dayne could be one of the two since he holds like all rushing records and then there could be Dan Marino...

but Archie was severely shafted

haha ya Ron Dayne could definitely be one of them. That is scary considering his average pro career.

[Bull19]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
no, he just won two Rose Bowls against two top five teams and won a national championship.

"HE" ???? this list is of the top players, not team....big difference!!!

get of the vy bandwagon:rolleyes:

[big daddy russ]

The other one's going to be Tommie Frazier.

I love Red Grange. Have his autograph and a plaque with an 8x10 from his days at Illinois hanging in my bedroom. He's the man who saved the NFL, and the best player of his day and was immediately the best player in the NFL when he moved up, but he's not top two all-time. He's one of those players who is given more credit than he deserves because of his star power.

I'd put Thorpe ahead of Grange on the list of greatest ever, and I'd put Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker, Danny Wuerffel, and Tommie Frazier ahead of him as well. Still top ten without a doubt, but I don't know about top two.


Originally posted by Bearkat
This is a joke, right? Bo Jackson and Vince Young are in the top 10? I can name 3 running backs(Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Sweetness) that are way better than these two and there are only two spots left. This list is about as much of a joke as the Heisman.
Back up a second. You don't think Bo Jackson deserves to be in the top ten? Barry put up one amazing year. The rest of his years in Stillwater were spent backing up some guy named Thurman Thomas. Sweetness played what was the equivalent of I-AA ball back then (played for HBCU Jackson State) and only finished fourth in the Heisman voting his senior year. Jackson got the shaft on one Heisman and won another.


Here's a post from another forum in which I put together an all-time NCAA team. Barry's on it the first team, but so are Bo and Herschel. I don't see how in the world Bo Jackson shouldn't be on the team.


big daddy russ
Rookie


Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Huntsville, TX
Posts: 90

Before I give you mine, I'm going with 12 full-time position players on each side of the ball plus a utility player. Four LB's and four DL's on D, three RB's, two WR's, and a TE on offense.


QB: Tommie Frazier, Nebraska; Danny Wuerffel, Florida; Sammy Baugh, TCU
RB: Barry Sanders, Oklahoma; Gale Sayers, Kansas; Ernie Nevers, Stanford
RB: Herschel Walker, UGA; Ricky Williams, Texas; Tony Dorsett, Pitt
RB: Bo Jackson, Auburn; Archie Griffin, tOSU; Doak Walker, SMU
WR: Tim Brown, Notre Dame; Desmond Howard, Mich; Larry Fitzgerald, Pitt
WR: Keyshawn Johnson, USC; Larry Kelley, Yale; Johnny Rodgers, Nebraska
TE: Mike Ditka, Pitt; Kellen Winslow, Mizzou; Keith Jackson, OU
OL: Orlando Pace, tOSU; Jonathan Ogden, UCLA
OL: John Hicks, tOSU; George Connor, ND; Bryant McKinnie, Miami
OL: John Hannah, Bama; Bill Fralic, Pitt; Dean Steinkuhler, Nebraska
OL: Merlin Olsen, Utah State; Bruce Matthews, USC
C: Dave Rimington, Nebraska; Mel Hein, Washington State; Dwight Stephenson, Bama
K: Sebastian Janikowski, FSU

UTIL: Jim Thorpe, Carlisle; Reggie Bush, USC; Nile Kinnick, Iowa; Peter Warrick, FSU Rocket Ismail, Notre Dame

DE: Charles "Bubba" Smith, MSU; Ross Browner, ND; Billy Ray Smith, Arkansas; Bruce Smith, Virginia Tech; Corey Moore, Virginia Tech
DE: Leon Hart, ND; Hugh Green, Pitt; Alan Page, ND; Ted Hendricks, Miami
DT: Bronco Nagurski, Minnesota; Warren Sapp, Miami; William Perry, Clemson
DT: Steve Emtman, Washington; Joe Greene, North Texas State; Lee Roy Selmon, OU
LB: Tommy Nobis, Texas; AJ Hawk, tOSU; Andy Katzenmoyer, tOSU
LB: Cornelius Bennett, Alabama; Chuck Bednarik, Penn; Lee Roy Jordan, Bama
LB: Dick Butkus, Illinois; Mike Singletary, Baylor; Jerry Robinson, UCLA
LB: Brian Bosworth, OU; Lawrence Taylor, North Carolina; Derrick Brooks, FSU
DB: Charles Woodson, Michigan; George Webster, MSU Jamar Fletcher, Wisconsin
DB: Deion Sanders, FSU Kenny Easley, UCLA Champ Bailey, UGA
DB: Ronnie Lott, USC Roy Williams, OU Lawyer Milloy, Washington
DB: Jack Tatum, tOSU Thomas Everett, Baylor Ty Law, Michigan
P: Daniel Sepulveda, Baylor Tom Tupa, tOSU Reggie Roby, Iowa


Feel free to disagree with any of my picks. Hell, I might've forgotten someone.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Bull19
"HE" ???? this list is of the top players, not team....big difference!!!

get of the vy bandwagon:rolleyes:

If VY wasn't on either of those teams, neither of them are even playing in the Rose Bowl.

[themsu97]

I would have to add somewhere would be Spielman and Coryatt... the only problem then would be who to take off... probably Bosworth...

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by themsu97
I would have to add somewhere would be Spielman and Coryatt... the only problem then would be who to take off... probably Bosworth...
I forgot all about Spielman. Coryatt definitely deserves mention, but I don't know if there's anyone on that list I'd take Coryatt over.

But I'd take Brooks out and replace him with Spielman in a heartbeat. That makes three tOSU linebackers on the list.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
where's Ricky Williams?????

:eek:

[Phil C]

They dont have very many defensive players on their do they? In fact most of them seem to be QBs and RBs. :confused:

[crzyjournalist03]

I'll stand by my Ricky Williams question...he out-rushed every running back in collegiate history during his time and was a force to be reckoned with.

I'm guessing that his pro career and off-field incidents have tarnished the memories of him running around the field in burnt orange.

[themsu97]

and also, Ricky did it in less time... his first two years at Austin wasn't he a full back and then a back up to Preist Holmes?

[SUPERMANN5107]

Originally posted by Bull19
VY IN THE TOP 10????? DID HE EVEN WIN A HEISMAN?

Well we all saw how the two heisman winners performed in the NC game.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by themsu97
and also, Ricky did it in less time... his first two years at Austin wasn't he a full back and then a back up to Preist Holmes?
I could be wrong on this, but I could've sworn he took Preist's spot as a starter his sophomore year.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I could be wrong on this, but I could've sworn he took Preist's spot as a starter his sophomore year. Shon Mitchell started over Preist

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by themsu97
and also, Ricky did it in less time... his first two years at Austin wasn't he a full back and then a back up to Preist Holmes?


Originally posted by eagles_victory
Shon Mitchell started over Preist
Both of you were kind of right. Forgot all about this, but Preist tore his ACL and only played five games his senior year. Shon Mitchell started in his place and Williams was the fullback.

That took me down memory lane. I had completely forgot about all that. Who was their QB that year? The black kid with the cool hair? Can't remember his name.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Both of you were kind of right. Forgot all about this, but Preist tore his ACL and only played five games his senior year. Shon Mitchell started in his place and Williams was the fullback.

That took me down memory lane. I had completely forgot about all that. Who was their QB that year? The black kid with the cool hair? Can't remember his name. James Brown i think

[Old Tiger]

30-2 as a starter
two of the greatest bowl game performance
the greatest NC performance ever!

[themsu97]

there are several other qb's who performed well in a NC game... heck Vick almost beat Florida State by himself, but the FSU receiver/ kick returner played great in that game as well, cannot think of that guys name, busted for writing hot checks I think... imo, Vick was better in college than VY because VY had tons of more talent...
there have been tons of great games, each year the media says that one of the games is the greatest ever, ie Boise v Oklahoma,
again, not knocking VY, I just think we are so in love with him because he is from Texas we forget about other great performers...
Danny Wuerffel put on a heck of a show in a NC game v FSU... what about ROcket Ishmael in the NC game v Colorado...

again, VY may not have been the greatest player to ever play at UT... but there is some stiff competition there though...
Ken Dorsey was what, 35-1 as a starter at Miami? and they would have beat OSU had not McGahee blown out the knee...

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by themsu97
there are several other qb's who performed well in a NC game... heck Vick almost beat Florida State by himself, but the FSU receiver/ kick returner played great in that game as well, cannot think of that guys name, busted for writing hot checks I think... imo, Vick was better in college than VY because VY had tons of more talent...
there have been tons of great games, each year the media says that one of the games is the greatest ever, ie Boise v Oklahoma,
again, not knocking VY, I just think we are so in love with him because he is from Texas we forget about other great performers...
Danny Wuerffel put on a heck of a show in a NC game v FSU... what about ROcket Ishmael in the NC game v Colorado...

again, VY may not have been the greatest player to ever play at UT... but there is some stiff competition there though...
Ken Dorsey was what, 35-1 as a starter at Miami? and they would have beat OSU had not McGahee blown out the knee... Dorsey had way more talent than Vince could even dream of around him.


Vince had the greatest championship performance ever by a player.


Also Vick only played two years in college.

[themsu97]

is your name Rich Lord by chance, or John McClain... your love affair with VY is undeniable...

yeah, I know Vick only played two years, and his performance in the Sugar Bowl was every bit as good as VY's in the Rose...
VY had just as much talent as Dorsey did... UT has been loaded for years... they are putting just as many players in the NFL as Miami is (more now of course)

not denying VY was a great college player, but top 10 all time, no way

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by themsu97
is your name Rich Lord by chance, or John McClain... your love affair with VY is undeniable...

yeah, I know Vick only played two years, and his performance in the Sugar Bowl was every bit as good as VY's in the Rose...
VY had just as much talent as Dorsey did... UT has been loaded for years... they are putting just as many players in the NFL as Miami is (more now of course)

not denying VY was a great college player, but top 10 all time, no way

Vick - 322 total yards, 2 td's
Young - 467 total yards, 3 td's

Texas 41-38 over USC
Florida State 46-29 over VTech


Look at that 2001 Miami team and tell me how many first rounders that team had then talk. Something like 20 I believe.

[LHPfactory]

Where is Mike Singletary????, If there ever was a great linebacker he fits the bill.:thumbsup:

[Bull19]

Originally posted by themsu97
is your name Rich Lord by chance, or John McClain... your love affair with VY is undeniable...

yeah, I know Vick only played two years, and his performance in the Sugar Bowl was every bit as good as VY's in the Rose...
VY had just as much talent as Dorsey did... UT has been loaded for years... they are putting just as many players in the NFL as Miami is (more now of course)

not denying VY was a great college player, but top 10 all time, no way

ditto....thought i was the only one who recognized that vy isnt the greatest thing ever

[themsu97]

correct about Singletary or even Marcus Allen... and we all know why OJ was left off...


VY was in a different offense than what Vick ran... man Blue, have you ever really watched any other games and understood what goes into game planning?

Vick's performance at qb is what set up qb's like VY to come along... you must be Rich Lord or someone who works for 610 in Houston?
your arms tired from swinging?

20 1st round picks off of one team? crazy... how many players are in the NFL from VY's teams?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by themsu97
there are several other qb's who performed well in a NC game... heck Vick almost beat Florida State by himself, but the FSU receiver/ kick returner played great in that game as well, cannot think of that guys name, busted for writing hot checks I think... imo, Vick was better in college than VY because VY had tons of more talent...
there have been tons of great games, each year the media says that one of the games is the greatest ever, ie Boise v Oklahoma,
again, not knocking VY, I just think we are so in love with him because he is from Texas we forget about other great performers...
Danny Wuerffel put on a heck of a show in a NC game v FSU... what about ROcket Ishmael in the NC game v Colorado...

again, VY may not have been the greatest player to ever play at UT... but there is some stiff competition there though...
Ken Dorsey was what, 35-1 as a starter at Miami? and they would have beat OSU had not McGahee blown out the knee...
I've never seen a one-man show like that NC game against FSU. VaTech's nation-best defense was torn up by Weinke, Warrick, and company. Vick was the only VaTech player that wasn't completely shut down by the Seminoles, and if that game would've been five quarters who knows what might've happened?

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by themsu97
correct about Singletary or even Marcus Allen... and we all know why OJ was left off...


VY was in a different offense than what Vick ran... man Blue, have you ever really watched any other games and understood what goes into game planning?

Vick's performance at qb is what set up qb's like VY to come along... you must be Rich Lord or someone who works for 610 in Houston?
your arms tired from swinging?

20 1st round picks off of one team? crazy... how many players are in the NFL from VY's teams? 16 players were first round selections off that team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/rosters/2001/mmi/

Just look at the names on that roster also.



You are providing opinions and I am providing facts.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by themsu97


again, VY may not have been the greatest player to ever play at UT... but there is some stiff competition there though...
Ken Dorsey was what, 35-1 as a starter at Miami? and they would have beat OSU had not McGahee blown out the knee... Washington also beat him in a non conference game his soph year i think it was

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Vick - 322 total yards, 2 td's
Young - 467 total yards, 3 td's

Texas 41-38 over USC
Florida State 46-29 over VTech


Look at that 2001 Miami team and tell me how many first rounders that team had then talk. Something like 20 I believe.
Casey, I'm with MSU on the Vick/Vince debate. Not saying that Vince's performance was anything horrible, but Vick's team was COMPLETELY outmatched. That UT squad had tons of talent.

Vick was the only thing VT had going for them. Corey Moore couldn't do everything himself on defense, but Vick came pretty darned close.

On that note, I was dang impressed with both performances. What Vince did will never be duplicated while Vick almost single-handedly beat 22 guys.

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Casey, I'm with MSU on the Vick/Vince debate. Not saying that Vince's performance was anything horrible, but Vick's team was COMPLETELY outmatched. That UT squad had tons of talent.

Vick was the only thing VT had going for them. Corey Moore couldn't do everything himself on defense, but Vick came pretty darned close.

On that note, I was dang impressed with both performances. What Vince did will never be duplicated while Vick almost single-handedly beat 22 guys.

BUT vick didnt do it...he lost by 17...anyways i cant even begin to try to argue with anything because over half of these players i have only heard about and seen on highlight clips...i dont have anything wrong with a "now" pick becuase what makes the older players that much better

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Big Papa
BUT vick didnt do it...he lost by 17...anyways i cant even begin to try to argue with anything because over half of these players i have only heard about and seen on highlight clips...i dont have anything wrong with a "now" pick becuase what makes the older players that much better
Vick also didn't have any help.

[themsu97]

see, you haven't even seen any of these games where we have... plus a NC game did not even come into light until a few years ago... Tommie Frazier was a man child in the Orange Bowl against Florida... VY was not close to that...
I have seen more tape on that Rose Bowl than you can imagine... and not that VY is not a great player, but again... there is no way that VY was better than anyone who ever walked at 40 acres... that is like saying that Mack is the greatest coach UT has had... imo, Earl was the greatest Longhorn ever...

Vick had VaTech in that game until, (thanks Russ) Warrick's punt return for a td... Warricks performance in that game was unbelievable... I was hoping that the Bush/VY showdown would be close to that but it was not... the media loves the "now" athlete and most of the media voting probably has no clue about some of these performances...

Dorsey came off the bench in that Washington game

[Old Tiger]

Tommy Frazier was better than Vince
Vince was better than Vick

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by themsu97
see, you haven't even seen any of these games where we have... plus a NC game did not even come into light until a few years ago... Tommie Frazier was a man child in the Orange Bowl against Florida... VY was not close to that...
I have seen more tape on that Rose Bowl than you can imagine... and not that VY is not a great player, but again... there is no way that VY was better than anyone who ever walked at 40 acres... that is like saying that Mack is the greatest coach UT has had... imo, Earl was the greatest Longhorn ever...

Vick had VaTech in that game until, (thanks Russ) Warrick's punt return for a td... Warricks performance in that game was unbelievable... I was hoping that the Bush/VY showdown would be close to that but it was not... the media loves the "now" athlete and most of the media voting probably has no clue about some of these performances...

Dorsey came off the bench in that Washington game

ill ask again...whats so wrong with the "now" player...what makes older players that much better...and while people say vy had help usc was a heck of a good team too...vy took that game over, put UT on his back, and won that game..he did have help and very talented help...but i guess thats the difference between just keeping yoiur team in the game...and winning the game.....i would like to watch Fraziers performance in the orange bowl...becuase if vy wasnt close to that then frazier must have been near perfect

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by themsu97
see, you haven't even seen any of these games where we have... plus a NC game did not even come into light until a few years ago... Tommie Frazier was a man child in the Orange Bowl against Florida... VY was not close to that...


Tommie Frazier was absolutely PHENOMENAL in college. I always enjoyed watching him run the Nebraska offense...it was a sight to watch with Frazier, Phillips, Green, and Makovicka brothers (Jeff and Joel) dominate the helpless Florida Gators in the Fiesta Bowl.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If VY wasn't on either of those teams, neither of them are even playing in the Rose Bowl.

Yes and if Terry Bradshaw wasn't playing for Pittsburgh in the 70s the Steelers wouldn't have won all those Super Bowls.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Big Papa
ill ask again...whats so wrong with the "now" player...what makes older players that much better...and while people say vy had help usc was a heck of a good team too...vy took that game over, put UT on his back, and won that game..he did have help and very talented help...but i guess thats the difference between just keeping yoiur team in the game...and winning the game.....i would like to watch Fraziers performance in the orange bowl...becuase if vy wasnt close to that then frazier must have been near perfect
IMO, Frazier is the best college player of all-time.

The gap in talent between Texas and USC wasn't a whole lot. It was just enough to where it would've taken an outstanding performance by Vince to win the game. The gap in talent between FSU and VaTech was so great that it would've taken an amazing performance by every player on the field (not just Moore and Vick) to beat FSU. FSU had four first-team All-Americans on that team (three more who would make the team next year), ten overall, and 11 first-team All-ACC players. The best championship team I've personally seen outside Frazier's Cornhuskers.

Vick's performance was every bit as impressive as Vince's, it just doesn't have the press because they didn't win. But my mark of greatness is his ability to elevate his team, which he did.

Check out ESPN Classic from time to time. I've seen that Orange Bowl and I've seen the Vick/FSU showdown from time to time on there.

[Phil C]

Offensive linemen are very important. Without them QBs or RBs would not have success. Strange but I don't think they have any OLs listed.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Phil C
Offensive linemen are very important. Without them QBs or RBs would not have success. Strange but I don't think they have any OLs listed.

maybe Forrest Gregg should be on the list! :)

[RattlerDude]

At first I was shocked to see Vince Young at the top, but now I'm not. His national championship performance was the greatest I have ever seen. He single-handedly beat the USC Trojans, who until that point in time I thought was the best college football team ever.

[Txbroadcaster]

I find it funny how the arguments go like this

Vince Young is all that Texas had and the ONLY way MAck Brown could win the big game was Vince Young's one man takes over game


Or

Wait Vince Young cannot be one of the best players ever because of the TALENT around him and how amazing that whole team was

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I find it funny how the arguments go like this

Vince Young is all that Texas had and the ONLY way MAck Brown could win the big game was Vince Young's one man takes over game


Or

Wait Vince Young cannot be one of the best players ever because of the TALENT around him and how amazing that whole team was
Well, some people grossly underestimate the talent on UT's sidelines and some people grossly overestimate it. Like I've said in the past, even if you take the QB's out of the argument, UT still had the second-most-talented team in the nation in 2005. They weren't the best ever, but they were just good enough.

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
maybe Forrest Gregg should be on the list! :) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5809/roflsmiliemn4.gifhttp://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5809/roflsmiliemn4.gifhttp://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5809/roflsmiliemn4.gifhttp://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5809/roflsmiliemn4.gif

[Bull19]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Well, some people grossly underestimate the talent on UT's sidelines and some people grossly overestimate it. Like I've said in the past, even if you take the QB's out of the argument, UT still had the second-most-talented team in the nation in 2005. They weren't the best ever, but they were just good enough.


just look at last years texas team with colt mccoy. that team made him look like the next heisman winner... and look at that team this year.....i think its safe to say that having the team around him last year was what made him look good.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bull19
just look at last years texas team with colt mccoy. that team made him look like the next heisman winner... and look at that team this year.....i think its safe to say that having the team around him last year was what made him look good.

And the Nebraska Team around Tommy Fraizer did not help him? I mean heck it is considered by some the greatest College football team of all time

Simple fact to win a NC title, you HAVE to have a complete team, with either a group or one catalyst for the team

Young was the catalyst..The team helped get Texas to the game, but Young IMO took over the Title game like great players do

Jordan did not win until the core of the Bulls were good enough to PUT him in the spot to take over finals and dominate

That does not diminish what Jordan did, in fact it enhances it

[Bull19]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
And the Nebraska Team around Tommy Fraizer did not help him? I mean heck it is considered by some the greatest College football team of all time

Simple fact to win a NC title, you HAVE to have a complete team, with either a group or one catalyst for the team

Young was the catalyst..The team helped get Texas to the game, but Young IMO took over the Title game like great players do

Jordan did not win until the core of the Bulls were good enough to PUT him in the spot to take over finals and dominate

That does not diminish what Jordan did, in fact it enhances it

lets remember what this thread is about though. greatest players ever!!!! so if vy's team wins one national title he is considered to be a top 10 greatest college football player ever? no way!!! were is troy smith then, eric crouch, etc....all of them won the national title and won a heisman....vy didnt even win a heisman to be considered the greatest player that year, but we still wanna dub him one of the greatest ever???? c/mon this is a joke

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bull19
lets remember what this thread is about though. greatest players ever!!!! so if vy's team wins one national title he is considered to be a top 10 greatest college football player ever? no way!!! were is troy smith then, eric crouch, etc....all of them won the national title and won a heisman....vy didnt even win a heisman to be considered the greatest player that year, but we still wanna dub him one of the greatest ever???? c/mon this is a joke

Well first off, I am not a big person on list of greatest ever, to many factors brought in

I think Young gets alot of love because he beat a team considered by many one of if not the greatest of all time, so that of course enhances his reputation

Then throw in the TWO rose bowls in a row that he pretty much took over and won, that again adds to his legacy

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
IMO, Frazier is the best college player of all-time.

The gap in talent between Texas and USC wasn't a whole lot. It was just enough to where it would've taken an outstanding performance by Vince to win the game. The gap in talent between FSU and VaTech was so great that it would've taken an amazing performance by every player on the field (not just Moore and Vick) to beat FSU. FSU had four first-team All-Americans on that team (three more who would make the team next year), ten overall, and 11 first-team All-ACC players. The best championship team I've personally seen outside Frazier's Cornhuskers.

Vick's performance was every bit as impressive as Vince's, it just doesn't have the press because they didn't win. But my mark of greatness is his ability to elevate his team, which he did.

Check out ESPN Classic from time to time. I've seen that Orange Bowl and I've seen the Vick/FSU showdown from time to time on there.

i watched the vt/fsu game live..i remember that..i was a huge vick fan..

i agree with this post..but i dont think the two performances were equal becuase of the outcome...and vy elevated his team to win..


Originally posted by Bull19
lets remember what this thread is about though. greatest players ever!!!! so if vy's team wins one national title he is considered to be a top 10 greatest college football player ever? no way!!! were is troy smith then, eric crouch, etc....all of them won the national title and won a heisman....vy didnt even win a heisman to be considered the greatest player that year, but we still wanna dub him one of the greatest ever???? c/mon this is a joke

your hatred or jelousy or whatever it is for vy shows through on this thread...you know that while troy smith and eric crouch had heismans they werent as good as vy...and look waht troy smith did in his last championship game.....

[Bull19]

Originally posted by Big Papa
i watched the vt/fsu game live..i remember that..i was a huge vick fan..

i agree with this post..but i dont think the two performances were equal becuase of the outcome...and vy elevated his team to win..



your hatred or jelousy or whatever it is for vy shows through on this thread...you know that while troy smith and eric crouch had heismans they werent as good as vy...and look waht troy smith did in his last championship game.....


do you not remember how eric crouch ran over every single team he played???? dont tell me how he wasnt as good as vy. if vy deserves to be on that list, well then so does eric crouch

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by Bull19
do you not remember how eric crouch ran over every single team he played???? dont tell me how he wasnt as good as vy. if vy deserves to be on that list, well then so does eric crouch

no i dont think he was as good as vy...he was very good..but i dont think they were on the same level

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bull19
do you not remember how eric crouch ran over every single team he played???? dont tell me how he wasnt as good as vy. if vy deserves to be on that list, well then so does eric crouch

Crouch's best year 2001
1510 yards passing 7TDs...1,115 yds rushing 18 TDs

Young;s best year 2005
3,036 passing 26 TDs...1050yds rushing 12 TDs

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Crouch's best year 2001
1510 yards passing 7TDs...1,115 yds rushing 18 TDs

Young;s best year 2005
3,036 passing 26 TDs...1050yds rushing 12 TDs lmao! uh pretty cut and dry! lol don't forget the NC ;)

but of course it reverts to the talent VY had around him:rolleyes: uphill battle! lol

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Well first off, I am not a big person on list of greatest ever, to many factors brought in

I think Young gets alot of love because he beat a team considered by many one of if not the greatest of all time, so that of course enhances his reputation

Then throw in the TWO rose bowls in a row that he pretty much took over and won, that again adds to his legacy
That's a good way to look at it. His ability to lead his teams to tough wins gets him extra points. Whenever people think UT football, the faces of the Longhorn program are (IMO) Darrell Royal, Tommy Nobis, Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, and Vince Young. Mack may be there within a couple of years, too.

But flip that over to VaTech. Who's the face of the Hokies? Do you think of Don Strock, Bruce Smith, and Frank Beamer, or does Vick's face stand out above them all?

This, IMO, is Vick's legacy. He turned a mediocre program (that was about on the same level as A&M now, just with a better defense) into a powerhouse.

How do you choose between two guys like that?

[themsu97]

Russ, you hit the nail on the head... it has nothing to do with VY personally... one great game does not make him one of the best ever... VY went to a University full of great players and if you can argue that he is not the best to ever go to his university, then how is he in the top 10... I guess I am wondering how is he ahead of Earl Campbell who was clearly better... Vick put VaTech on the map along with Beamer...
Frazier was a stud, a man amongst boys... Crouch is not even close to the ones mentioned here...
but here is the thing... why is VY so far ahead of Leinart and Bush? Bush was definitely more dynamic and Leinart led his team to at least one NC, claims to another, and then to the championship for a 3rd? how is that not better than what VY did in his career?
VY is no doubt a great player, but I think we way overexaggerate how great he is because of where he is from, and when he played... heck Steve Breaston ate UT up in the 1st Rose Bowl... didn't he have like 200 return yards and like 100 yards receiving...
we forget the great games some of the other people have because we hear so much about VY...

any body else remember the game that Rocket had v Colorado when he returned the punt back to beat them but it was called back... that was also a phenominal performance...

but nothing like Frazier breaking like 3 or 4 tackles and carrying few guys into the end zone on several runs...

[Txbroadcaster]

How is so determined Cambell is better than Young IN COLLEGE?

[themsu97]

come on Broadcaster, you are old enough right? to remember #20 rolling all over people in his orange?

Greatest player, imo, to ever walk the 40 Acres...

again, it is no slight to VY, but Campbell is a legend... and that has nothing to do with pro career, all college

[kepdawg]

Tom Brady will be 1! Everybody knows he is the greatest football player ever!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by themsu97
come on Broadcaster, you are old enough right? to remember #20 rolling all over people in his orange?

Greatest player, imo, to ever walk the 40 Acres...

again, it is no slight to VY, but Campbell is a legend... and that has nothing to do with pro career, all college

ok so all college

Cambell gets the plus for the Heisman

Young the plus for the NC

Both All-Americans, Both dominated and took over games

Again..how is it so easily said Cambell is far and away better than Young?

Seems to be they are in exact same category

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
ok so all college

Cambell gets the plus for the Heisman

Young the plus for the NC

Both All-Americans, Both dominated and took over games

Again..how is it so easily said Cambell is far and away better than Young?

Seems to be they are in exact same category

I agree. I watched VY in person...while I've seen a few games of Campbell's on ESPN Classic over the years. Both players were extremely special talents. Adrian Peterson is the only RB I can think of that reminds me of the way Campbell ran the ball. Campbell was the epitomy of the "football is a collision sport" phrase.

VY was special...but in a different way. He made plays that seemed impossible and his confidence level was higher than anybody else I've ever seen play the game.

Comparing a QB playing in the current NCAA to a RB from the power running days is all but impossible.

[g$$]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
This a COLLEGE football all-time greatest list. All 3 of those guys were solid college players but better pro players. Sweetness might be the exception to that, but he played D-2 ball in college. I have to agree that Archie Griffith is getting shafted. How can you be the ONLY 2 time winner of the Heisman and not make the Top 10?

Barry Sanders won the Heisman at OK State.

Barry Sanders has the single-season rushing record (over 2600 yds. in 11 games).

Barry Sanders still holds the avg. yards per game in NCAA history (239 ypg).

College & pro football HOF.

More than a great pro buddy, & had to wait his turn behind future HOF Thurman Thomas too & left after junior year for NFL.

[g$$]

Originally posted by themsu97
come on Broadcaster, you are old enough right? to remember #20 rolling all over people in his orange?

Greatest player, imo, to ever walk the 40 Acres...

again, it is no slight to VY, but Campbell is a legend... and that has nothing to do with pro career, all college

Don't forget Tommy Nobis on defense. #60 is retired at Texas & revered by all. Great LB for Falcons too.

Earl Campbell was a beast in college & pros. One of all-time greats & I loved watching him play. My signed picture of him winning the Heisman is a treasure to me as I got to meet him twice as a kid.

[Old Tiger]

Barry sanders had a great season but IMO that doesn't make him one of the top 25 college players of all time.

[g$$]

Originally posted by g$$
Barry Sanders won the Heisman at OK State.

Barry Sanders has the single-season rushing record (over 2600 yds. in 11 games).

Barry Sanders still holds the avg. yards per game in NCAA history (239 ypg).

College & pro football HOF.

More than a great pro buddy, & had to wait his turn behind future HOF Thurman Thomas too & left after junior year for NFL.

Pretty impressive to me Blue. Great 3 years at OK State sharing time & returning kicks before his monster season. You were not old enough to remember his time at OK State.

Archie Griffin is getting hosed on this list.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
Pretty impressive to me Blue. Great 3 years at OK State sharing time & returning kicks before his monster season. You were not old enough to remember his time at OK State.

Archie Griffin is getting hosed on this list. If one season is all it takes then Kevin Smith has to be one of the 25 greatest players of all time. He only needs 181 yards to break the record. One season doesn't move a person into the top 25.


IMO Thorpe should be top 3.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
If one season is all it takes then Kevin Smith has to be one of the 25 greatest players of all time. He only needs 181 yards to break the record. One season doesn't move a person into the top 25.


IMO Thorpe should be top 3.

Kevin Smith (C-USA) also will play in 14 games too. Barry Sanders played in 11 that year - in the vaunted Big 8 in those days. BTW, I like Smith a lot too but not for this list.

Barry was very good for all 3 years. His 3rd year when he was the man was absolutely sick after Thurman Thomas left for pros.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
Kevin Smith also will play in 14 games too. Barry Sanders played in 11 that year.

Barry was very good for all 3 years. His 3rd year when he was the man was absolutely sick after Thurman Thomas left for pros.
???



324 yards in 86
622 yards in 87
The exploded in 88.


IMO one season does not make a RB.


Hell he only rushed for 3575

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
???



324 yards in 86
622 yards in 87
The exploded in 88.


IMO one season does not make a RB.


Hell he only rushed for 3575

Look at his return #s as he split time with Thurman Thomas under Pat Jones. Then look at his monster season in his junior year playing in the Big 8.

Gale Sayers is in Pro Football HOF & he only played a few years. But when he played before injury, it was pure greatness.

All-time great one no doubt. Pretty good in pros too! ;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
Pretty good in pros too! ;) And that is what is effecting your opinion of him. It's college athlete, not pro. He's definately in the top 50 all time but not top 25. One good season does not transend him into the top 25.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
And that is what is effecting your opinion of him. It's college athlete, not pro. He's definately in the top 50 all time but not top 25. One good season does not transend him into the top 25.

No it's not. I remember him well at OK State & my buddy played with him. Pro is a different deal. Not affecting me one bit.

You only remember him at Detroit, not me.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
No it's not. I remember him well at OK State & my buddy played with him. Pro is a different deal. Not affecting me one bit.

You only remember him at Detroit, not me. Nice way to try to flip the scipt. I have said nothing about his pro career. All I said was one season does not make him a top 25 college player. You're silly.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Nice way to try to flip the scipt. I have said nothing about his pro career. All I said was one season does not make him a top 25 college player. You're silly.

Flip what? I watched Barry play in college & pro. Saw him light A&M up one year too (1988). I believe this list is very subjective, but IMO he belongs in top 25. The guy has single season & ypg numbers all-time in the NCAA. Enough said. In 11 games!

[big daddy russ]

My all-time NCAA team is a few pages back. When I made that list this summer, I amended it and put 12 players on each side so that Barry would have a spot. He's one of the greatest in my book.

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
That's a good way to look at it. His ability to lead his teams to tough wins gets him extra points. Whenever people think UT football, the faces of the Longhorn program are (IMO) Darrell Royal, Tommy Nobis, Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, and Vince Young. Mack may be there within a couple of years, too.

But flip that over to VaTech. Who's the face of the Hokies? Do you think of Don Strock, Bruce Smith, and Frank Beamer, or does Vick's face stand out above them all?

This, IMO, is Vick's legacy. He turned a mediocre program (that was about on the same level as A&M now, just with a better defense) into a powerhouse.

How do you choose between two guys like that?

i agree with some of what you said...but referring to the VT thing...while i do think of vick...its not the first thing that pops into my head...beamer ball is actually what i think of...while vick brought them up near the top...beamer kept them playing competive football

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Big Papa
i agree with some of what you said...but referring to the VT thing...while i do think of vick...its not the first thing that pops into my head...beamer ball is actually what i think of...while vick brought them up near the top...beamer kept them playing competive football
I can see that, but I grew up with VaTech being an afterthought. They became a good team in the mid-90's, but weren't prominent. Then Vick came along and they became known as more than just a Beamerball team that played solid defense and great special teams. He transformed them (at least in most people's minds) from a top-25 team to a top-five team.

I guess it's all just your frame of reference. I don't think I sat through and watched an entire VT game until Vick's freshman year.

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Two Words



"BRETT FARVE"

[rockdale80]

I love people get mad at someone else's opinion. That is all any of this is. If you dont agree with the list, kudos to you, but it is still opinions. If you do agree with the list, kudos to you, but it is still opinions. It is nothing to get mad over.

On a side note, does anyone thing VY would have won the Heisman if the votes had taken place after the NC? I think pointing out he didnt win the Heisman is a moot point. Perhaps not, after all it is only my opinion.;)

[TexanFan4Life]

I once played a video game with players like Archie Griffin and Charles White on it. They weren't that great. :D

[themsu97]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Barry sanders had a great season but IMO that doesn't make him one of the top 25 college players of all time.

then this would be VY... one great game his RS sophomore year, Rose Bowl, then his RS junior year... no different than Sanders... Campbell did it for a career

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by themsu97
then this would be VY... one great game his RS sophomore year, Rose Bowl, then his RS junior year... no different than Sanders... Campbell did it for a career

I would say Young's RS Soph year was pretty good as well..over 1,000 yards rushing and 1800 yards passing

In fact Cambell rushed for 4,000 yards his time at UT...Young a QB rushed for over 3,000 yards..and threw for 6,000 yards

And in his first year as QB he finished two yards short of 1,000 yards

he ranks 5th on UT TD list


So all in all I think we can say he was more than a one year wonder

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by themsu97
then this would be VY... one great game his RS sophomore year, Rose Bowl, then his RS junior year... no different than Sanders... Campbell did it for a career


o·pin·ion /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
Two Words



"BRETT FARVE"

what about Brett Favre???

http://thumbnail.search.aolcdn.com/truveo/images/thumbnails/72/19/7219661FD59D23.jpg

[themsu97]

I agree with opinion, I am just stating why I favor mine...

I can honestly see why people like VY... I have seen tons of tape on UT games with him and the guy was incredible...
imo, Campbell was better... but that again is no knock on VY,

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by themsu97
I agree with opinion, I am just stating why I favor mine...

I can honestly see why people like VY... I have seen tons of tape on UT games with him and the guy was incredible...
imo, Campbell was better... but that again is no knock on VY,


I think it is truly impossible to gauge the top 20 players of all time in any order. There can be arguements made for more than 20 and for a cornucopia of reasons. This would be made more difficult for the advancement in conditioning, strength training, playbooks, etc.

For example, what do you think would happen if VY travelled back in time and played in the 1960's? It doesnt even have to be VY, but any other modern era talent.

These reasons are why I dont understand people getting upset over. Not you in particular. Just saying.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by rockdale80


For example, what do you think would happen if VY travelled back in time and played in the 1960's? It doesnt even have to be VY, but any other modern era talent.

By modern era you mean post 1975? :D:p

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I think it is truly impossible to gauge the top 20 players of all time in any order. There can be arguements made for more than 20 and for a cornucopia of reasons. This would be made more difficult for the advancement in conditioning, strength training, playbooks, etc.

For example, what do you think would happen if VY travelled back in time and played in the 1960's? It doesnt even have to be VY, but any other modern era talent.

These reasons are why I dont understand people getting upset over. Not you in particular. Just saying.
Sorry Rockdale, gotta disagree with you here. That's just like saying that a scout or a recruiter can't go out and rank prospects/recruits in the country. Everything's subjective and some guys don't pan out, but they get pretty dang close with their rankings.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Go Blue
By modern era you mean post 1975? :D:p


:clap: :clap: :clap:

That is pretty funny.

[themsu97]

in a way Rockdale, I agree... I guess that is why I get my dander up on this list because to me it is the sports media trying to prove to us that we are living in the greatest era of sports and then trying to say that all of the athletes from today are better than the ones before, I do not agree with them, some are...
kind of like the Tiger Woods arguement, he is the greatest of our time no doubt, but the greatest ever... I think you know what i mean... but it does makes things fun since it drums up some old memories

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Sorry Rockdale, gotta disagree with you here. That's just like saying that a scout or a recruiter can't go out and rank prospects/recruits in the country. Everything's subjective and some guys don't pan out, but they get pretty dang close with their rankings.


So you think you can compare a QB from the 50's with a QB like VY? You think you can do subjectively? Come on now. Too many variables. And noone would ever agree on it. You could have 50 different scouts/recruiters make this list and they would all be different. You could also as different people in different regions to make this poll, and they would all be different and biased. You cant just compare numbers.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by rockdale80
So you think you can compare a QB from the 50's with a QB like VY? You think you can do subjectively? Come on now. Too many variables. And noone would ever agree on it. You could have 50 different scouts/recruiters make this list and they would all be different. You could also as different people in different regions to make this poll, and they would all be different and biased. You cant just compare numbers.
Yeah, I think it's all subjective. You can't do a list like this objectively.

But on that note, you can't directly compare players from the 40's and 50's against the players of today. The average NFL linemen didn't hit 300 lbs until the mid-90's. In the 50's, college linemen were anywhere from 220 to 250. Meanwhile, Warren Sapp was 285 and ran a 4.7 at Miami when they switched him from TE to DT.

You have to compare how dominant these guys are within their own time frame. You can look two years back and two years ahead and see how good those particular playes were within that five-year frame and have a gauge on the overall level of talent.

Vince and Leinart are IMO the two best college QB's since Joe Hamilton, Michael Vick, etc, maybe even dating back to the Wuerffel/Frazier years. Those guys who were playing in 2005 were absolute studs, and I'll give Vince credit for being one of the four best players in the country that year. Heck, he may even be one of the top five QB's of all-time. If he's not, he's pretty dang close.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Yeah, I think it's all subjective. You can't do a list like this objectively.

But on that note, you can't directly compare players from the 40's and 50's against the players of today. The average NFL linemen didn't hit 300 lbs until the mid-90's. In the 50's, college linemen were anywhere from 220 to 250. Meanwhile, Warren Sapp was 285 and ran a 4.7 at Miami when they switched him from TE to DT.

.


That is exactly what I meant. That is all.

[g$$]

Originally posted by rockdale80
That is exactly what I meant. That is all.

But like Russ said, you can't dismiss players from other eras. Yes, advancements have been made in training/conditioning, more complex schemes, nutrition, better coaching, etc. But if those great players played today they would have access to all of that too. Years ago, players did not train year-around - they worked other jobs in the offseason. 50 years from now, some will push our best to the side too, & that is unfair.

No doubt players today are bigger/faster/stronger. That does not automatically make them better.

The Cream Always Rises to the Top.

Take the best from any era: Sammy Baugh, Doak Walker, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Earl Campbell, Johnny Unitas, Deacon Jones, Walter Payton, etc. ALL of them would still be great. And probably even better today based on the advancements in training.

And same for every sport too. Pele' is Pele', Tiger is Tiger, Jordan is Jordan, Ted Williams is Ted Williams, Bird is Bird, Mantle is Mantle, Oscar Robertson is Oscar Robertson, etc.

Some people (not saying you) dismiss other eras & that is incorrect & inaccurate. The best from any era are still the best & that must be taken into account when compiling any list. Very subjective too.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I would say Young's RS Soph year was pretty good as well..over 1,000 yards rushing and 1800 yards passing

In fact Cambell rushed for 4,000 yards his time at UT...Young a QB rushed for over 3,000 yards..and threw for 6,000 yards

And in his first year as QB he finished two yards short of 1,000 yards

he ranks 5th on UT TD list


So all in all I think we can say he was more than a one year wonder

Earl Campbell was hurt his 1st 3 years on & off while splitting carries in the Wishbone with a guy named Roosevelt Leaks (College HOF) & others. He even blocked a punt playing special teams! Healthy his senior year of 1977 & running out of the I formation, he blew up & won the Heisman & carried Texas to the Cotton Bowl undefeated (lost big to Notre Dame).

Again, stats can be misleading if you don't check them thoroughly TXB. Stats don't tell the whole story. Earl was an absolute great one in college & pros too of course. Called the "Earlers" for a reason!

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$




And same for every sport too. Pele' is Pele', Tiger is Tiger, Jordan is Jordan, Ted Williams is Ted Williams, Bird is Bird, Mantle is Mantle, Oscar Robertson is Oscar Robertson, etc.
The game of baseball, golf, and basketball hasn't really changed over the years such as football. The space for mistakes was far greater back in the day than it is now. The game is far more sophisticated than 30-40 years ago. Some players would translate better but not all great players would.

Gale Sayers would suck now days just like Reggie Bush.
Johnny Unitas wouldn't be good at all either.
Baugh wouldn't be good either.
Payton and Campbell wouldn't last long due to how much more physical the game is now.
Jim Brown is a player that could play now days(IMO the greatest RB ever).


QB's didn't have to be as accurate as they are now days.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
By modern era you mean post 1975? :D:p

You're learning.

1975 is a good place to start if you consider sweeping changes & legislation that affected college football's landscape. Those changes are still being felt today & leveled the playing field for more than 6-8 teams playing for NC.

Your sarcasm revealed my previous point again. Thanks! :)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
You're learning.

1975 is a good place to start if you consider sweeping changes & legislation that affected college football's landscape. Those changes are still being felt today & leveled the playing field for more than 6-8 teams playing for NC.

Your sarcasm revealed my previous point again. Thanks! :) My sarcasm just proves you're an idiot.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
The game of baseball, golf, and basketball hasn't really changed over the years such as football. The space for mistakes was far greater back in the day than it is now. The game is far more sophisticated than 30-40 years ago. Some players would translate better but not all great players would.

Gale Sayers would suck now days just like Reggie Bush.
Johnny Unitas wouldn't be good at all either.
Baugh wouldn't be good either.
Payton and Campbell wouldn't last long due to how much more physical the game is now.
Jim Brown is a player that could play now days(IMO the greatest RB ever).


QB's didn't have to be as accurate as they are now days.

Clueless = Go Blue

You don't think all sports have changed due to athletes of today? Are you insane? And baseball, basketball, soccer, golf, etc. have all changed too. Football too of course.

Your post is so off-base that I don't care to put forth the effort.

Wow, just wow the inaccuracies in that post. Guys like you don't respect those that came before & made the individual sports what they are today. Sad but true.

Cream always rises to the top. Best of any era could still play today based on advances they could also take advantage of like everybody else. You are dead wrong.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
My sarcasm just proves you're an idiot.

No, your post dismissing generations of great players just proves what I have known forever about you: clueless under any poster name.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
My sarcasm just proves you're an idiot.

I will put my IQ against yours anyday hoss. Anyday.

I'll leave the nursing exam to you though!

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
Clueless = Go Blue

You don't think all sports have changed due to athletes of today? Are you insane? And baseball, basketball, soccer, golf, etc. have all changed too. Football too of course.

Your post is so off-base that I don't care to put forth the effort.

Wow, just wow the inaccuracies in that post. Guys like you don't respect those that came before & made the individual sports what they are today. Sad but true.

Cream always rises to the top. Best of any era could still play today based on advances they could also take advantage of like everybody else. You are dead wrong.

What's changed in baseball? Still hand eye coordination to hit the ball. Only thing that's really changed is the velocity in pitching and no more finess hitting and more power hitting.

Golf is pretty much the same year in and year out. Tiger may drive farther than Jack did but golf hasn't changed.



You can't look at this argument with the great ones you really can't. You have to go to the middle of the pack guys who play now days and who played then. Now days athletes such as a 3 or 4 wide reciever would be a 1 or 2 back then just because of the size and speed of them. A 3 now could run a 4.3 or 4.4 while a 1 or 2 back in the day was running a 4.6 or 4.7. Don't bring up the Jerry Rice argument on speed because the guy played like he was running from the cop and he is a one of the top players.


that little paragraph just proves why athlete from back in the day couldn't compete now days.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by g$$
I will put my IQ against yours anyday hoss. Anyday.

I'll leave the nursing exam to you though! You're senile.


Way to take a jab at the profession I'm going in, real mature dude. How old are you?

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
You're senile.


Way to take a jab at the profession I'm going in, real mature dude. How old are you?

Old enough to know you are out of your element here. You are the immature one calling names, not me. Anything I have posted referred to the nature of your posts - not personal attacks.

Your little paragraph just made my point for me: players today train year-around under the supervision of S&C coaches; speed/size is relative based on your era. The best are still the best & would be bigger/faster/stronger today based on training & advances. Marginal guys would fall by the wayside.

Baseball has changed = much more athletic game today with more guys displaying power/speed/velocity, different training, better coaching, & better athletes. Game is played at a faster rate by the players. Core game is the same, but not the quality of the players & athletes. More than just hand/eye coordination to be a great baseball player too. 5 tools - hit for avg., hit for power, speed, arm, defense.

Basketball too = best athletes in the world running & jumping, taller men as a whole too, & international players. Much more complex & athletic game played a faster pace.

Golf = many more long hitters today & many more playing it too; much more competitive circuit than Jack, Arnold, & Gary. They have said so & that makes what Tiger is doing all the more impressive.

Athletes of today are no doubt bigger/faster/stronger. But the greats from any era could still play given the same advances in training & coaching. Talent is talent - the marginal players of years ago could not play today. The best are still the best.

[Old Tiger]

you bore me with your ignorant logic.

[themsu97]

Originally posted by Go Blue
What's changed in baseball? Still hand eye coordination to hit the ball. Only thing that's really changed is the velocity in pitching and no more finess hitting and more power hitting.

Golf is pretty much the same year in and year out. Tiger may drive farther than Jack did but golf hasn't changed.



You can't look at this argument with the great ones you really can't. You have to go to the middle of the pack guys who play now days and who played then. Now days athletes such as a 3 or 4 wide reciever would be a 1 or 2 back then just because of the size and speed of them. A 3 now could run a 4.3 or 4.4 while a 1 or 2 back in the day was running a 4.6 or 4.7. Don't bring up the Jerry Rice argument on speed because the guy played like he was running from the cop and he is a one of the top players.


that little paragraph just proves why athlete from back in the day couldn't compete now days.


this right here proves alot about what you know... baseball ball parks have gotten smaller, training is different, video equipment, and the all important of lowering the mound...

but, football is still blocking and tackling, can you do it... your comment on Campbell proves how dumb you are, Campbell was a very physical back, ie Jamal Lewis but he also had break away speed, like Jim Brown... Unitas was an outstanding qb, he would be the equivalent to Manning...

I mean I understand that you argue for the sake of arguing, but bring some logic...

people can have different opinions and that is fine, but be able to support your opinion with logic...

the game of golf has changed, titanium, tighter wound balls,

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by themsu97
this right here proves alot about what you know... baseball ball parks have gotten smaller, training is different, video equipment, and the all important of lowering the mound...

but, football is still blocking and tackling, can you do it... your comment on Campbell proves how dumb you are, Campbell was a very physical back, ie Jamal Lewis but he also had break away speed, like Jim Brown... Unitas was an outstanding qb, he would be the equivalent to Manning...

I mean I understand that you argue for the sake of arguing, but bring some logic...

people can have different opinions and that is fine, but be able to support your opinion with logic...

the game of golf has changed, titanium, tighter wound balls,
Golf - Wouldn't that make it harder for players these days to play then? I think so. The transition for a Jack Nicholas would be easier than a transition for Tiger back in the day.

Baseball - Smaller fields now days you say? Therefore you are saying that Babe Ruth could probably have 100+ more home runs now days which would make barry obsolete(spelling?). Also much easier transition for Babe than Barry.

Football is the only sport where it would show that athletes are quicker. Hell they thought Gale Sayers was everything now days any player in the league can make Gale's moves.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by g$$
But like Russ said, you can't dismiss players from other eras. Yes, advancements have been made in training/conditioning, more complex schemes, nutrition, better coaching, etc. But if those great players played today they would have access to all of that too. Years ago, players did not train year-around - they worked other jobs in the offseason. 50 years from now, some will push our best to the side too, & that is unfair.

No doubt players today are bigger/faster/stronger. That does not automatically make them better.

The Cream Always Rises to the Top.

Take the best from any era: Sammy Baugh, Doak Walker, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Earl Campbell, Johnny Unitas, Deacon Jones, Walter Payton, etc. ALL of them would still be great. And probably even better today based on the advancements in training.

And same for every sport too. Pele' is Pele', Tiger is Tiger, Jordan is Jordan, Ted Williams is Ted Williams, Bird is Bird, Mantle is Mantle, Oscar Robertson is Oscar Robertson, etc.

Some people (not saying you) dismiss other eras & that is incorrect & inaccurate. The best from any era are still the best & that must be taken into account when compiling any list. Very subjective too.

I didnt say dismiss other eras. Never said that. Said that there are too many factors to have a 100% accurate list of the best. I appreciate what the guys did back in their day. My only point was that this is an impossible list to make accurately, especially when lumping different eras and positions together into one, and that this is someone else's opinion. :)

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Gale Sayers would suck now days just like Reggie Bush.
Johnny Unitas wouldn't be good at all either.
Baugh wouldn't be good either.
Payton and Campbell wouldn't last long due to how much more physical the game is now.
Jim Brown is a player that could play now days(IMO the greatest RB ever).


QB's didn't have to be as accurate as they are now days.
I've maintained since before RB was drafted that Bush and Sayers are two different kinds of runner. They're similar, but Sayers was stronger, was better at breaking tackles, and could run through people.

I wish this highlight video was in full speed.

Sayers highlights (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tdJ18NGIrps)

Watch the run at the 2:56 mark. It may have just been a safety, but Sayers put him on his butt. Would RB ever be able to do that?

Now I think the game has changed so much that Baugh wouldn't be much of a player, but all the rest would. Campbell and Ricky Williams are pretty similar, and Williams gained 1800 yards a few years back. Payton's violent enough to play anytime, anywhere. Unitas was what, 6' on a good day? If he played today he may not be an All-Pro, but he'd be a starter. Basically, I think that most of these guys... the all-time greats at least... could play during any era. It was the other guys who probably wouldn't hold up as well.



Originally posted by Go Blue
You can't look at this argument with the great ones you really can't. You have to go to the middle of the pack guys who play now days and who played then. Now days athletes such as a 3 or 4 wide reciever would be a 1 or 2 back then just because of the size and speed of them. A 3 now could run a 4.3 or 4.4 while a 1 or 2 back in the day was running a 4.6 or 4.7. Don't bring up the Jerry Rice argument on speed because the guy played like he was running from the cop and he is a one of the top players.
Alright then, I'll bring up Anquan Boldin. Ran a 4.7 at the combine and would be the go to guy on most teams.

If that's not good enough for you, look at Michael Irvin (4.6). Many of guys who ran 4.6+ are some of the best of all-time. Now if you want to talk speed, "Bullet" Bob Hayes was a world-class sprinter who was taught how to catch a ball. He's as fast as anyone out there today. As far as the big and fast argument, look no farther than Lynn Swann.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I've maintained since before RB was drafted that Bush and Sayers are two different kinds of runner. They're similar, but Sayers was stronger, was better at breaking tackles, and could run through people.

I wish this highlight video was in full speed.

Sayers highlights (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tdJ18NGIrps)

Watch the run at the 2:56 mark. It may have just been a safety, but Sayers put him on his butt. Would RB ever be able to do that?

Now I think the game has changed so much that Baugh wouldn't be much of a player, but all the rest would. Campbell and Ricky Williams are pretty similar, and Williams gained 1800 yards a few years back. Payton's violent enough to play anytime, anywhere. Unitas was what, 6' on a good day? If he played today he may not be an All-Pro, but he'd be a starter. Basically, I think that most of these guys... the all-time greats at least... could play during any era. It was the other guys who probably wouldn't hold up as well.



Alright then, I'll bring up Anquan Boldin. Ran a 4.7 at the combine and would be the go to guy on most teams.

If that's not good enough for you, look at Michael Irvin (4.6). Many of guys who ran 4.6+ are some of the best of all-time. Now if you want to talk speed, "Bullet" Bob Hayes was a world-class sprinter who was taught how to catch a ball. He's as fast as anyone out there today. As far as the big and fast argument, look no farther than Lynn Swann.


Sayers was a downhill runner with speed, he could play in any era....Swann was not big..only 5'11 180 when he played, but had some jets

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sayers was a downhill runner with speed, he could play in any era....Swann was not big..only 5'11 180 when he played, but had some jets
Sorry, always get him and John Stallworth mixed up. Stallworth was the one from the small Alabama school that the Steelers would've taken in the first round of that draft, but they waited and wound up getting him in the fourth round because no other teams had ever really seen him. He was 6'3" and 200+.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Sorry, always get him and John Stallworth mixed up. Stallworth was the one from the small Alabama school that the Steelers would've taken in the first round of that draft, but they waited and wound up getting him in the fourth round because no other teams had ever really seen him. He was 6'3" and 200+.

Stallworth was the Irvin of that offense..6'1 200 solid speed, could make any catch, went over the middle

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Stallworth was the Irvin of that offense..6'1 200 solid speed, could make any catch, went over the middle
6'2" actually, and a little under 200 I just found out. Still, one of the most underrated receivers of all time.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
6'2" actually, and a little under 200 I just found out. Still, one of the most underrated receivers of all time.

yea i have seen 6'1 and 6'2

but he was far better than Swann who IMO one of the most overrated players in NFL history

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
yea i have seen 6'1 and 6'2

but he was far better than Swann who IMO one of the most overrated players in NFL history
I think Swann's become overrated just because of his current visibility on the sidelines. If you watch the old NFL classic tapes, though, Stallworth was an absolute beast. Could go up and catch it over anyone, was great at going through traffic, and was just pretty to watch.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
yea i have seen 6'1 and 6'2

but he was far better than Swann who IMO one of the most overrated players in NFL history

Stallworth was the bigger of the 2, while Swann was the acrobat & deep ball threat. Both were GREAT. I have nightmates from my youth watching them beat the Oilers in 2 AFC Title Games.

Earl Campbell was far better than Ricky Williams. Earl carried the Oilers on his back his first few years. MVP of NFL 2 or 3 times. All Pro multiple times. ROY too. Just a great RB in any era. Career was shortened by overuse & extreme pounding he took. All-time great one. Ricky is not in that class.

For anyone saying Gale Sayers could not play now - then you really need to get out more. Tremendous talent whose career ended far too soon due to injury. Sammy Baugh did it all - 1st inductee into Pro Football HOF. I'll take him on my team.

As I said, the great ones from any era could still play today. They would have access to everything players do today. The marginal players would fall by the wayside.

Blue: you mentioned baseball; baseball players did not even lift weights until around 1980. Dr. Gene Coleman & Nolan Ryan revolutionized that aspect of training. Now players train sport-specific year-around. As do players in other sports.

Your lack of knowledge is only exceeded by your inability to admit when you are wrong. And in this case, you are dead wrong.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Go Blue
you bore me with your ignorant logic.

You make me laugh with zero logic & uninformed posts.

[Phil C]

I expect Red Grange to be No. 1. You don't suppose they will put OJ as No. 2 do you. He was great and won the Heisman Trophy but remember he only played two years at the big college level.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Phil C
I expect Red Grange to be No. 1. You don't suppose they will put OJ as No. 2 do you. He was great and won the Heisman Trophy but remember he only played two years at the big college level.

I'm with you on Red Grange. Don't think OJ makes top 2 after only 2 years at USC.

[trojan37]

Originally posted by LHPfactory
Where is Mike Singletary????, If there ever was a great linebacker he fits the bill.:thumbsup:

I was going to say the same thing. As far as I'm concerned he was the man when it came to the LB position. Vicious hitter!

http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/40/60/2049540600074581342hmDyip_th.jpg

[g$$]

Originally posted by trojan37
I was going to say the same thing. As far as I'm concerned he was the man when it came to the LB position. Vicious hitter!

http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/40/60/2049540600074581342hmDyip_th.jpg

Defensive players get the shaft in these deals. Tommy Nobis is another one. Randy White at Maryland too. They did include Hugh Green, etc. No doubt Mike Singletary was a great one at Baylor & beyond.

[g$$]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I didnt say dismiss other eras. Never said that. Said that there are too many factors to have a 100% accurate list of the best. I appreciate what the guys did back in their day. My only point was that this is an impossible list to make accurately, especially when lumping different eras and positions together into one, and that this is someone else's opinion. :)

That's fair, very subjective list.

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by g$$

For anyone saying Gale Sayers could not play now - then you really need to get out more.


ROFL...this made me laugh..i know what yoiu were saying but everytime i read it i cant help but think..."what would getting out more have to do with knowing about past players"



side note: i know you cant overlook the guys of the past..but it goes both ways too....you cant overlook the guys of today..just because they are of today

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by g$$
Defensive players get the shaft in these deals. Tommy Nobis is another one. Randy White at Maryland too. They did include Hugh Green, etc. No doubt Mike Singletary was a great one at Baylor & beyond.


Another reason this list is subjective. It is fun to talk about and speculate, but I think you could list about 40 guys in no particular order and make valid arguments for each.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Big Papa
ROFL...this made me laugh..i know what yoiu were saying but everytime i read it i cant help but think..."what would getting out more have to do with knowing about past players"



side note: i know you cant overlook the guys of the past..but it goes both ways too....you cant overlook the guys of today..just because they are of today

Meaning learn more about past greats & respect what they did for their respective sports. Gale Sayers could play in any era, as could many of these guys. Football (or other sports) was not invented yesterday.

I respect past & present players & admire their talents. IMO, too many concentrate only on today, & that's sad.

[themsu97]

you are right Rockdale, but like I have said before... most of the time ESPN is making these lists to make us believe we are in the best era of sports, next year for sure I can promise you that they will be saying that Tebow is the best college qb ever...

it all depends on who they want to pimp so to speak... a different topic, but take Otto Graham... played 10 years for Cleveland, all 10 years he led his team to the NFL title game, won it 7 times, that right there is impressive...

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by g$$
Meaning learn more about past greats & respect what they did for their respective sports. Gale Sayers could play in any era, as could many of these guys. Football (or other sports) was not invented yesterday.





Originally posted by Big Papa
i know what yoiu were saying

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :doh: :doh:

[TexanFan4Life]

Brian Bosworth anyone?? One of the best, if not THE best college LB, of all time.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanFan4Life
Brian Bosworth anyone?? One of the best, if not THE best college LB, of all time.

A very good player hopped up on steroids, but not the best ever in college football.

LBs Tommy Nobis & Mike Singletary come to mind quickly, & others too.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by Highschoolfan78
haha ya Ron Dayne could definitely be one of them. That is scary considering his average pro career.

Ron Dayne will not be one of them

that is preposterous

i bet it will be..........




Russell Erxleben!!